Spread Eagle?

[1horseboy]

hey just wondering

[1horseboy]

Hey, just wondering how many people can do an outside spread eagle?

[Isk8NYC]

I've NEVER been able to do an outside spread eagle, sorry to say.
I can do an inside one and I taught two of my students, who are former dancers, to do the outside one!

[sue123]

I did an outside one accidently once. I have no idea how i did it, but I was told I did it afterwards, and I haven't been able to do it since.

[dbny]

If you have very open hips, that is, you can stand on the ice with your heels together and toes pointed out with your skates forming a straight line, then any spread eagle is a piece of cake. If you don't have open hips, your ability to do spread eagles will vary with the degree of turnout you can get. I have very closed hips and, consequently, pathetic turnout. The best I can do is a very tight inside spread eagle. The circle it describes is about 3 feet in diameter. The degree of openness in the hips is a matter of bone structure, and is determined by time one is 2 years old. After that point, stretching can help, but can't do it all.

[Sessy]

I don't think I'll ever be able to do one, my hips are as inflexible as concrete. I can't even turn out enough to do a mohawk the way some people do them. Just gotta get really low on my knees for them.

[Mrs Redboots]

I, too, wonder how people can do them. My legs don't do that!

[Clarice]

My daughter and I, on the other hand, can just do them. I guess we're naturally open-hipped, although I admit I feel it the next day if I do too many outside spread eagles the day before. We both have good Ina Bauers, too. There are plenty of other things I find very difficult, though, that other people think are really easy! (Evil brackets...camel spins...grumble, grumble...)

[flying~camel]

I can do an outside spread eagle :)

I've only been able to do it for about 6 months and I'm still working on straightening my knees and leaning back into the edge more.

I have an outside spread eagle in both my interp & freestyle programs, though the one in my freestyle program is pretty short (can't hold it very long when you only have 1:40 ;)).

[black]

*puts hand up* - Inside and outside; with straight legs and reasonable upper body posture. I need to warmup for them though. Currently trying the extreme inside edge, low to ice with the upper body arched back - Its really difficult though - no arch yet and probably won't. It requires sooo much balance and strength, I don't know how some skaters do it.

Aside from can/can't do; just like to say that doing fast Spread Eagles on good ice feels really really good.

Like Clarice mentioned I can also do Ina Bauers, though I need to work on keeping the behind leg straighter; can get a bit of back arch too!!

[1horseboy]

I went to see champions on ice and all the skaters only did inside spred eagles, so I wondered if it was a hard move; thanks for clarifying that.

P.S. I can do one too :D

[1horseboy]

:?: Ina Buer?:?:

[black]

http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_g_bauer.htm

[1horseboy]

Thanks I see now I can do that but my coach calls it a bauer

[Sessy]

with a bauer, the one foot is behind the other, making 2 circles, with a spread eagle the feet are on 1 circle - I THINK!... :o

[Sessy]

don't forget it takes a lot of flexibility (and some people have hips that will NEVER do that at all, physically impossible - although some have such hips that it's very easy for them) and boys are generally less flexible than girls are (due to hormone issues)
but if you can do a bauer you should be able to do a spread eagle I'm thinking.

[dbny]

I don't think I'll ever be able to do one, my hips are as inflexible as concrete. I can't even turn out enough to do a mohawk the way some people do them. Just gotta get really low on my knees for them.

Same here. Those with great turn-out and open hips have no idea how fast the rest of us have to turn our hips to do a simple FI Mohawk. It's turn fast or your foot goes down at a right angle to the direction of travel and .....SPLAT!

[jskater49]

My daughter was in a group number and they needed to do Ina Bauers which she couldn't seem to get the hang of (I don't think it's a flexibility issue for her-she just didn't have time to learn it well enough) and coach showed her a nifty fake Ina Bauer, where you do a lunge, just not so low and turn your body like an Ina Bauer. Even I can do it.

j

[Sessy]

Took me about 2 splats before I had the whole fast-or-splat thing figured out.

Stopping to stare at my feet to make sure they were turned out before putting them down however - that's something I still have to think about. :x On roller skates, I even keep doing it anyways. :frus:

I replaced an outside mohawk with an inside mohawk on a test once, last december... Still passed the test, but given the score I got, they did notice... :lol: Meanwhile I'm on speaking terms with even the outside mohawks fortunately, although they are a bit flat. I even learned to do this... like a mohawk, except then you step back on the back outside edge that you started from, like a double mohawk or something - not sure what it's called. But gosh it took practicing, incredible. :x
But I really wanted to do it. Now I really wanna learn like... a 3-turn, except then you turn back again (but in the opposite rotational direction to the first one, not like in a twizzle), I'm not sure what it's called? But again, if I try it, my leg bone just grinds into my hip bone in a way I can feel it... But I'm sure there's gotta be a way to learn to do that too.

[dbny]

Meanwhile I'm on speaking terms with even the outside mohawks fortunately. I even learned to do this... like a mohawk, except then you step back on the back outside edge that you started from, like a double mohawk or something - not sure what it's called. But gosh it took practicing, incredible. :x
But I really wanted to do it. Now I really wanna learn like... a 3-turn, except then you turn back again (but in the opposite rotational direction to the first one, not like in a twizzle), I'm not sure what it's called?

I can just manage a RFO Mohawk, but it scares me, and the LFO Mohawk is pathetic. I don't practice them :cry:. I think the turn you described first is really a fast Choctaw. It goes FO BI FO, but it's done so quickly that the BI edge isn't obvious. The 3-turn sequence you are describing is is usually done in sets of three and is a 3-bracket-3. The turn after your first 3 is a bracket.

[Sessy]

I think I'm doing fo bflat fo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_NwC2UerBo) (past 1:30 mark) and the trainer said it looked fine although I learned it myself from copycatting other girls at the rink... So either the trainer messed up or I think wrongly... At least it feels like a flat, if not to say a very slight outside edge. I need to stretch to do it, LOL how sad is that?

[doubletoe]

Yep, outside (and long inside) spread eagles and Ina Bauers are my specialty. :)
My physical therapist tells me that the ability to turn one's hips out is determined by the placement of the hip joint: More to the outside and you get good turnout, more to the inside and you will never have the turnout required for an outside spread eagle or Ina Bauer. It is not gender-specific.

By the way, I find that the Ina Bauer actually requires more flexibility, since you are also stretching the hip flexor of the rear leg.

[peanutskates]

so... are you guys saying that if you can do an inside mohawk well, you should be able to do a spread eagle? or is it an outside mohawk well = good spread eagle?

*rushes to perfect mohawks and begin spread eagle...*

and what exercises would you recommend for learning the spread eagle/ina bauer? on ice and off ice... thanks.

[BatikatII]

definitely not gender-specific. Lots of people told me that girls /women could do them better than guys but in our family my son could do a great outside spread and had outside to inside spreads in his programmes. I can't and daughter can't anywhere near as well - she has to really bend the knees whereas he could have both legs staight and still be on the outside. Even his coach was jealous of that ability!! If I practised really hard I reckon I could manange a half decent Ina Bauer eventually but never an outside spread.

[flo]

I do inside and outside eagles and bauers. It's all in the hips.

[dbny]

I think I'm doing fo bflat fo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_NwC2UerBo) (past 1:30 mark) and the trainer said it looked fine although I learned it myself from copycatting other girls at the rink... So either the trainer messed up or I think wrongly... At least it feels like a flat, if not to say a very slight outside edge. I need to stretch to do it, LOL how sad is that?

It looks like FO BO FO to me too. It's possible that the arc of the curves is so large that it feels flat to you, but is still actually an edge. You are way ahead of me with turn-out. There is no way I could do that move.

[Sessy]

Hmmm so not *all* hope is lost?

I've been stretching the hips for over a year... *sigh* I'm so jealous of everybody at the rink who just... whoop and does it, inside-edged spread eagle, outside edged ones, etc... grr. No fair! :x *gets back to working on bielman spiral*

[Sessy]

So what's this bo-fo-bo move called, anybody know?

[nshereb]

I can do an outside spread eagle into an inside spread eagle, in both directions. They look difficult but the more you practice em the easier they become.

[mandypants]

There has been a lot of great advice about outside spread eagles so far and I just want to add a couple little things. I have a decent outside spread eagle and very open hips due to ballet training and just genetics I guess, But, I still have to do a lot of work to carry out what I can easily do on the floor to the ice. One thing I do all the time is stretch after warming up/stroking. I just go to the boards and try the spread eagle position, bend my knees a bit, go back to the position, etc. and get my boots happy about being in that position. If I didn't do anything like that at the boards, I'd never be able to hold onto an outside edge. So warm it up a little at the boards, then do some short spread eagles and then try to go into them with some speed and hold the outside edge longer. But the first few attempts, I really feel my lower legs protesting.

Another thing I do is use my forward-going arm as my steering.. So if I'm trying to work on an outside curve, then I try to let my arm guide me and the other hold slightly to the front. I think this helps a lot when I'm just beginning my practice on it. After about 5 attempts at an outside s. eagle, then I can do more complex things with my arms. It's always a little rough though at first and I'd consider myself really turned out.

Another thing I have to mention is that I couldn't even do a good inside or outside spread eagle in my last boots, which were Super teri's. For some reason they wouldn't let my foot flex enough. Now in my current boots, I can flex just fine. That's just one other thing to look at if you're frustrated.

Maybe this can help someone here?

Actually, to answer your question, I'm working on going from outside to inside and holding that. Usually after a big outside arc, my eagle dies... so I'm just trying to extend it to an inside edge and then do a back Xover out of it.

[doubletoe]

so... are you guys saying that if you can do an inside mohawk well, you should be able to do a spread eagle? or is it an outside mohawk well = good spread eagle?

*rushes to perfect mohawks and begin spread eagle...*

and what exercises would you recommend for learning the spread eagle/ina bauer? on ice and off ice... thanks.

People who find outside mohawks easy probably have open hips and could learn to do outside spread eagles and Ina Bauers.

[Award]

so... are you guys saying that if you can do an inside mohawk well, you should be able to do a spread eagle? or is it an outside mohawk well = good spread eagle? *rushes to perfect mohawks and begin spread eagle...* and what exercises would you recommend for learning the spread eagle/ina bauer? on ice and off ice... thanks.

I think that if you can at least get your two feet to point 180 degrees on the carpet, with or without knee bend, then there is hope. The carpet gives a bit of grip. The next thing might be to put one foot on the carpet, and keep doing whenever you can, which could help to train the body to get used it, and to get this position more easily. How much conditioning? It's hard to say. Maybe a few days for some. Maybe a year for others. And doing the spread eagle with the feet is not necessarily the same as doing the spread eagle on the ice, with skates on your feet. The additional height and having no carpet or friction/grip to force the feet into the spread eagle position can be tricky for some people. That is, some people might find a spread eagle fairly easy to do with bare feet or shoes on the carpet. But once the skates are on, there is a little bit more to get used to, or to get adjusted to.

I haven't got the best turn out in the hips, so I have depended a bit on ankle turn out, which doesn't hurt me at all, since it's just something that I have.

[peanutskates]

I began trying it holding on to the boards yesterday, and it's getting there... my feet turn out quicker with practice.

[Sessy]

I can't get 180 degrees, not even on the carpet, after a year of stretching... That is, technically, I can, but then my knees hurt for a week.

[Award]

I can't get 180 degrees, not even on the carpet, after a year of stretching... That is, technically, I can, but then my knees hurt for a week.

Yeah ..... probably better not if the knees hurt for a long time like that. Are you trying with straight leg, or very bent knees? Often, bent knee spread eagle can be achieved by a lot of people even if they can't do a straight leg one.

[Sessy]

No, I'm already trying with bent legs. Well if my knees are like at 90 degrees bent, I can do one on the carpet (still not on the ice, not even on rollers).

[dbny]

I can't get 180 degrees, not even on the carpet, after a year of stretching... That is, technically, I can, but then my knees hurt for a week.

Your turn out is coming from torque in the knees and that can damage them. To do a spread eagle safely, there should be no knee pain or stress.

[sue123]

I took an off ice class once, and one of the exercises they taught to get better hip turn out is this: lie on your stomach with your legs straight. Then, bend one leg, bringing that foot to the inside of your other thigh. Your legs should look like a number 4. Then try to push your hip into the floor, but don't push to the point of pain. Make sure to do it with both legs.

I used to do it every day, but I've become a bit lax about it lately.

[doubletoe]

I can't get 180 degrees, not even on the carpet, after a year of stretching... That is, technically, I can, but then my knees hurt for a week.

Oww! It sounds like you do not have open hips and if you don't, then you just don't. A Biellmann will give you higher levels and more points on both spins and spirals, but a spread eagle is worth no points at all, so please don't ruin your knees trying to force it! :cry:

[Sessy]

Yeah I haven't tried anymore since december I think, I realized after the first two times I did that that I'd bust my already weak knees if I'd continue. I don't try in ballet either, the ballet teacher understands and doesn't whine anymore by now.

Btw, I'm getting that foot over my head now! :lol:

[doubletoe]

Yeah I haven't tried anymore since december I think, I realized after the first two times I did that that I'd bust my already weak knees if I'd continue. I don't try in ballet either, the ballet teacher understands and doesn't whine anymore by now.

Btw, I'm getting that foot over my head now! :lol:

Awesome!! :bow: I am now doing backbends every day in addition to all of my hamstring and split stretches because I want to at least get my foot higher than my head on a catch foot spiral (even if I can't quite do a "real" Biellmann).