off-ice doubles and triples

[Verena]

Hi all!

At this point I am learning my axel and double jumps - actually trying to succeed every time I attempt them. However, I am looking forward to learn triple jumps and especially a double axel. I was wondering if someone has to be able to perform the double axel and/or triple jump on the ground in order to be able to perform them on ice. Currently, I have two rotations on the ground and a single axel that I can overrotate up to two rotations. however, it seem impossible to do more than two rotations on the ground.. How do people do a two and a half rotations or even three on the ground?? Is it technique or just more strength and faster tightening of the arms? Will I be able to do a double axel on the ice even if I cannot do it on the ground??

Cheers!

[SynchroSk8r114]

In my opinion, there is a big difference in being able to land a jump off-ice rather than on the ice. First of all, off-ice you lose the ability to maintain your landing because you come to a dead stop rather than gliding back as you would on ice. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't work the rotations off-ice...trying to get the correct in-air position with your arms/legs/core could be beneficial later.

I used to take an off-ice jump class and here's what we did. First, we would start by just rotating by jumping in place with correct position. Then (for axels, esp.) we would take a few running steps forward on a curve, as if you were doing crossovers, and then jump as you would on ice. That made it a little easier because you have some momentum going.

Overall, it's hard to predict if you'll ever be able to land a double axel off-ice. A girl I know used to be able to, but she would always two-foot the jump on ice. So...yeah, I guess it's also individual. What I'm wondering, however, is why you're so anxious to tackle triple jumps when you are just now working on your axel and doubles? There's quite a difference between a single axel and double axel, and doubles and triples. I wouldn't be in such a hurry to rush the triples. Once you get the doubles down pat, you should be able to build on them to land solid triples. Anyway, best of luck to you! :D

[Verena]

What I'm wondering, however, is why you're so anxious to tackle triple jumps when you are just now working on your axel and doubles? There's quite a difference between a single axel and double axel, and doubles and triples. I wouldn't be in such a hurry to rush the triples. Once you get the doubles down pat, you should be able to build on them to land solid triples. Anyway, best of luck to you! :D

I know I am impatient :) and that I am not ready for triples or a double axel on ice. However, I thought that it would not hurt to try them off-ice, especially if their off-cie performance is required in order to perform them on ice... Thanks!

[blackmanskating]

I know I am impatient :) and that I am not ready for triples or a double axel on ice. However, I thought that it would not hurt to try them off-ice, especially if their off-cie performance is required in order to perform them on ice... Thanks!

Hey Verena,

I'm impatient too. I'm in the exact same position. I'm working on Axel through double flip on ice and I just started landing a double axel off ice. I can't do it every time though. I don't do running starts at it. I just stand on my right foot as if I'm skating backwards into it, I step forward with my left and jump. I just have to go down in my knee more and spring up. Sometimes, I focus to much on height and not enough on rotation and I don't make the revs. Other times I rotate quickly but without enough height. It's a balance. But I don't practice too many of them because it feels totally different on ice.

BlackManSkating

[flo]

I've been able to do a double flip on the ground, but it really does not translate onto the ice.

[Award]

You have to be careful too when trying to do that kind of thing off-ice, in case you land badly and too much friction between shoe/foot and ground could cause something nasty.

[Verena]

You have to be careful too when trying to do that kind of thing off-ice, in case you land badly and too much friction between shoe/foot and ground could cause something nasty.

Oh, I already had some kind of an accident. Earlier today, I tried to do an off-ice jump trying to rotate faster than usually. When I landed it and I tried to check out of the jump, my hip twisted somehow, and now it hurts even if I am just walking... How am I ever going to do two and a half rotations off-ice??? :(

[TreSk8sAZ]

This may be a weird response, but here it is. Most of the people I know doing triples off ice without some sort of aid (like a trampoline or gymnastics floor) are men. While I know some females who do so, the overwhelming majority of those that can actually land them office are men. This probably comes from the fact that women's bodies are made differently, and it is often easier for the males to land jumps more quickly than females (why you see men regularly landing a triple lutz in novice, while ladies are only landing 2-4 triples at the same level.

Either way, in order to land these jumps off-ice, you really need to have soild, solid, solid doubles on and off ice. That way you are comfortable with the rotation before trying something higher on the scale of jumps. Make sure that you are somewhat jumping the landings so the force doesn't stop quickly (you could end up tearing something in your knee, breaking a foot, or an ankle).

Though I have to say, I simply can't understand why you are trying these jumps off-ice when you don't yet have doubles on ice. You really should be focusing on getting your doubles tighter, higher, and faster rather than starting on jumps you are nowhere near trying on ice. Or start trying to do double-single combos or double-double combos (which I do know people can do off-ice). I know you said you are impatient, but starting triples too early will cause EXTREMELY bad habits with your doubles on ice, which are just as hard to break. It could mean relearning your jumps after a period in time. Also, as flo said, many of the jumps do not translate well off-ice. This again could cause horrendous habits (typically you see skaters rotating their upper body way too early). While I'm not saying give up on off-ice jumps, concetrate more on what you are working on on-ice. If you need more to do, yoga, pilates and plyo are always good ways to go. They'll strengthen muscles you need for jumping, maybe help land stuff off-ice as well.

[blackmanskating]

This may be a weird response, but here it is. Most of the people I know doing triples off ice without some sort of aid (like a trampoline or gymnastics floor) are men. While I know some females who do so, the overwhelming majority of those that can actually land them office are men. This probably comes from the fact that women's bodies are made differently, and it is often easier for the males to land jumps more quickly than females (why you see men regularly landing a triple lutz in novice, while ladies are only landing 2-4 triples at the same level.

Either way, in order to land these jumps off-ice, you really need to have soild, solid, solid doubles on and off ice. That way you are comfortable with the rotation before trying something higher on the scale of jumps. Make sure that you are somewhat jumping the landings so the force doesn't stop quickly (you could end up tearing something in your knee, breaking a foot, or an ankle).

Though I have to say, I simply can't understand why you are trying these jumps off-ice when you don't yet have doubles on ice. You really should be focusing on getting your doubles tighter, higher, and faster rather than starting on jumps you are nowhere near trying on ice. Or start trying to do double-single combos or double-double combos (which I do know people can do off-ice). I know you said you are impatient, but starting triples too early will cause EXTREMELY bad habits with your doubles on ice, which are just as hard to break. It could mean relearning your jumps after a period in time. Also, as flo said, many of the jumps do not translate well off-ice. This again could cause horrendous habits (typically you see skaters rotating their upper body way too early). While I'm not saying give up on off-ice jumps, concetrate more on what you are working on on-ice. If you need more to do, yoga, pilates and plyo are always good ways to go. They'll strengthen muscles you need for jumping, maybe help land stuff off-ice as well.

I agree whole heartedly!!! Like I said, even though I have been able to do double axels off ice, I find that my jumps don't translate well on ice so I find no point in creating muscle memory for off ice moves. And if you do try these moves off ice, be sure to hop out of the landing. You can twist something nasty if you don't. I learned the hard way once. I would only practice the jumps you are currently working on ice right now. Even I'm not froggy enough to try triples.


BlackManSkating