Lutz - I don't get it

[looplover]

I remember posting something similar about the flip and finally got that, so I have some hope -- but -- I just don't get how the heck you actually do a lutz jump. In terms of what you are jumping off? I know with a flip you're transferring your weight briefly to the toe pick of picking foot and jumping off that, but if I do that from an outside edge of the skating foot, then I'm flutzing.

It's like something is just not connecting in my brain with this jump and when I'm ready to go I have both feet on the ice!! How the heck do you leave the ice?? Thanks!!! :??

Signed,

really confused and promised the coach I'd have this learned by Tuesday 7 a.m.

[mikawendy]

Two things REALLY helped me when learning this jump:

First of all, having a consistent entrance. I prefer one that starts out nearly on a flat and then goes onto the outside edge just before the jump. (If you start out on too deep of an outside edge too long before the jump, you'll compensate while picking and wind up rocking over onto an inside edge and flutzing.) I do back crossovers onto the shallow BO edge, position my free leg, switch my arms, then look back to my free side, then jump. And I got to practice that entry LOTS because it took me ages to rotate the jump fully and land on one foot.

The second thing is a tip that doubletoe gave about making sure to pull back onto the picking foot--that weight transfer is crucial for being able to fully rotate the jump. The jump should not feel like a tremendous effort--when I was doing the jump wrong (not transferring the weight at all to the picking foot), it felt like an enormous effort, and I felt like I was trying to crank myself around and never quite doing it right.

Some older threads about this topic:
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=22156

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=21754

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=20956

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=19168

[looplover]

LOL I forgot I already asked this question!!!!!

HAHA

Brain freeze....thanks!

[mikawendy]

No worries. That weight transfer is a hard thing to get the feeling of--it really is--but it's so key.

[vesperholly]

No, if you are holding an outside edge and then rocking to the toe pick and jumping, you're still doing a lutz. A good lutz should be a BO counter in the air.

[Sessy]

For me, I just really, really, REALLY have to push my right shoulder blade, actually point the right arm backwards and look backwards over my right shoulder, if I have any hope of landing the bugger.

But then I'm just generally not checking my right shoulder enough on anything.


No, if you are holding an outside edge and then rocking to the toe pick and jumping, you're still doing a lutz. A good lutz should be a BO counter in the air.

What's a counter? I thought a counter is something in a shop or in a kitchen, a piece of furniture.

[vesperholly]

What's a counter? I thought a counter is something in a shop or in a kitchen, a piece of furniture.
A counter is a one-foot turn. It is a counter-rotational turn (as opposed to "natural" rotation like a three turn) that changes lobes but stays on the same edge characteristic (outside to outside, inside to inside).

LFO counter (http://users.adelphia.net/~jdelmar/video/LFOcounter.wmv)
RFI counter (http://users.adelphia.net/~jdelmar/video/RFIcounter.wmv)

[Sessy]

oh I didn't get those yet in class... :lol:

How on earth do you do one? I mean I see the video's but... It seems almost like you get on an inside edge just before the turn and then do a lfi 3-turn?

[looplover]

No, if you are holding an outside edge and then rocking to the toe pick and jumping, you're still doing a lutz. A good lutz should be a BO counter in the air.

Aha, maybe I should learn to do a counter first and that will help...

[Sessy]

Does anybody have a video of a back outside counter on ice?

[blackmanskating]

I have to agree with Sessy. In order for me to do this jump, I had to put my right shoulder far behind me and I had to turn my head to the right while I glide backwards almost on a flat rather than an edge. When I'm in this position, I do an edge pull to an outside edge as I pick in with my right foot. My friend recorded me doing a lutz with his cell phone and I noticed that my toepick goes in sideways like Evgeny Plushenko. I always thought that looked a little funny but now I realize that I do it too. My picking foot turns to the left as it touches the ice before I jump. It creates that twist in the lower body that I need to rotate. As long as I keep my left shoulder firmly checked in front, the rotation happens automatically as I transfer my weight to the picking foot. When I try to pick with my foot facing forward, my blades seem to run into each other. I've fallen a lot trying to make my foot stay straight forward. But it doesn't look like I flutz so I'm going to leave it alone. So I've concluded that my sideways right foot helps not only with rotation, but it gets it out of the way of my left foot when I create my outside edge. Does anybody else pick in sideways when doing a lutz:?:

BlackManSkating