Help - messy jumps!

[kateskate]

Argh. I videoed some of my jumps at the weekend and they just look messy. I try to pull my arms in and cross my feet but it doesn't seem to translate. I practise them off ice (although not as much as I could) and they are better off ice (although feet still don't cross) and I'm going to do more rotational exercises on ice too from now on. Any other tips gratefully received. Does anyone else have such a mental block about pulling their arms in and crossing their feet? How did you fix it? And I don't quite understand why my arms fly up at the end of a jump (well on axels at least). And my free leg sticks out in a very ugly fashion on landings.

Also I know they are all underrotated and the axel is particularly bad take-off wise. Argh. I can't seem to make myself stay in for the last bit of the turn (which presumably would be easier if I was actually pulled in correctly). And that axel - I know what to do but can't quite manage it.

My axel (yuck!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ma6EcWhcOc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFvYF1vum20

Double salchow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5_J33NEwyk (first one not so good second one better)

Double toe loop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bsXvz58xq4 (again first one not so good, second one better)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hy6Cn-vOl4


On a positive note, my spins were better than I thought they would be when watching back on camera!


Thank you!

[Kelli]

My suggestion would be to spend lots and lots and lots of time working on getting stronger, higher singles with nice strong loops at the end. I think that will help you get neater body positions as well as cleaner jumps. (And I bet someone else will come along and I explain what I'm trying to say much better!)

Totally random, but I love the look of a black dance skirt with black tights! And I think over the boot tights are normally kind of fugly, except worn the way you have them on (toe exposed).

[Team Arthritis]

all I can say is that I'm jealous! doubles in a tiny rink during a public skate, wow.
Only consistant thing I noticed is too much bending at the waist while in the air, make yourself a long skinny pole and you will rotate faster. FWIW
Lyle

[kateskate]

My suggestion would be to spend lots and lots and lots of time working on getting stronger, higher singles with nice strong loops at the end. I think that will help you get neater body positions as well as cleaner jumps. (And I bet someone else will come along and I explain what I'm trying to say much better!)

Totally random, but I love the look of a black dance skirt with black tights! And I think over the boot tights are normally kind of fugly, except worn the way you have them on (toe exposed).


Thank you! I do neglect single combos with loops so I will work on that

[kateskate]

all I can say is that I'm jealous! doubles in a tiny rink during a public skate, wow.
Only consistant thing I noticed is too much bending at the waist while in the air, make yourself a long skinny pole and you will rotate faster. FWIW
Lyle


Ok thanks! Good to have another POV. Will try and pull up straighter when I jump.

[UDsk8coach]

a lefty!

Bring your Left knee UP on the axel, same w the double sal... there's no lift at all, which is why the jumps are on the smallish side

for the toe, skate your left heel through... practice toeing in, then pulling into a back pivot, but not moving your upper body... helped me IMMENSELY on my double toe, which lead to triples... I highly recommened this practice tool!!

Any questions? Feel free to message me!

[TreSk8sAZ]

Along with the others who have commented, you need to really bring your knee up and through on the axel and double sal. Concentrate on jumping UP and then rotate. The video shows that you are really taking off already rotating, which gives you no height and makes you wrap your free leg like you are. The big single with big loop on the end is a good idea. Singles working on going as big as you can while as straight in the air as possible might also be a good idea.

[AlexeiLover]

-On your axel bend you skating knee more and kick through with your other leg. You're stoping your left leg when it hits your heel... I don't know what your coach has told you but mine keeps on telling us to kick through like you're kicking a dude you don't like in the nuts...
-On the double sow, agian kick through more... Or maybe try it from a different entry (I jump opposite to you so just change this accordingly), when I was trying it my coach told me to do a back left outter three, step down backwards (just basically a mohawk), then bend, kick and jump.
-Again, all I can say is kick more...

Generally, from skater to skater, you have to get into that back-spin position as quicly as possible.

Try them with a little more speed.

Hope I helped!:)

[teresa]

My input, jump OUT and UP in your axel and salchow. You seem to jump AROUND. Kinda like water going down the drain in the tub. Think waltz jump and then loop for the rotation. I used to do the bathtub thing too, =-), but I'm trying to do better. I've noticed that many kids seem to do this too when first learning these skills. We're normal and their is hope for us. =-) Work on quality singles too. Your doing great!

teresa

[kateskate]

Thank you! :D Much appreciated.

(A lot more helpful than some of the comments posted direct to youtube. I really don't see the point in responding to a video when all you have to say is 'That was cheated'.) :x I know it is cheated I'm trying to fix it! :x

Anyways, I am constantly told to jump up and out and to kick but my little brain doesn't like to make my arms and legs behave! But I will keep working on it.

[kateskate]

My input, jump OUT and UP in your axel and salchow. You seem to jump AROUND. Kinda like water going down the drain in the tub. Think waltz jump and then loop for the rotation. I used to do the bathtub thing too, =-), but I'm trying to do better. I've noticed that many kids seem to do this too when first learning these skills. We're normal and their is hope for us. =-) Work on quality singles too. Your doing great!

teresa

Good to know you had the same problems too and that it is fixable! Thanks!

[Skittl1321]

(A lot more helpful than some of the comments posted direct to youtube. I really don't see the point in responding to a video when all you have to say is 'That was cheated'.) :x I know it is cheated I'm trying to fix it! :x



My jumps aren't good, so I can't offer any advice- but I wish there was a way to turn youtube comments off. I find posting videos helpful- because I can ask advice of others here, as well as post them to my blog- so that people know that when I say "I did a great waltz jump today" that great is WAY relative. I don't want blog readers to think I'm amazing, because I'm clearly not. From skaters I tend to get nice comments about my progress from you tube I get "u sux" or "why bother posting this crap"

I too don't see the point in posting that. So generally I take the video down after a week so that skatingforums and people who read my blog can reply to it.

Thanks for sharing your videos, sorry I have nothing to offer.

[kateskate]

My jumps aren't good, so I can't offer any advice- but I wish there was a way to turn youtube comments off. I find posting videos helpful- because I can ask advice of others here, as well as post them to my blog- so that people know that when I say "I did a great waltz jump today" that great is WAY relative. I don't want blog readers to think I'm amazing, because I'm clearly not. From skaters I tend to get nice comments about my progress from you tube I get "u sux" or "why bother posting this crap"

I too don't see the point in posting that. So generally I take the video down after a week so that skatingforums and people who read my blog can reply to it.

Thanks for sharing your videos, sorry I have nothing to offer.

Glad you agree. I don't mind criticism and I want help but just saying something is cheated is not helping.

[mintypoppet]

I wish there was a way to turn youtube comments off.

Just going briefly off-topic here...

You can turn comments off. Go to My Videos, then Edit Video Info. Scroll down to Allow Comments. You have a choice between allowing comments with or without approval, or banning all comments.

[Zoomana]

Your jumps look really good to me, though obviously still a work in progress. I'm working on Axel but can only dream about doubles....

I've just got to say this, though - your rink looks so totally groovy, hip music, lights, it looks like a roller rink! I wish public sessions in Massachusetts had this ambience - I'm lucky if I could fit in a lutz, never mind what you were doing!

As to the YouTube negative people - there are a lot of weirdos out there. They would diss someone who cured cancer just to be a jerk.

[tidesong]

I put my youtube videos to comments on approval. And also you can delete unwanted comments. I also turn off ratings because my videos are up there for the viewing pleasure of my friends and anyone that cares to watch. But I'm not interested in those really random nonsensical comments as well.

[kateskate]

Thanks - I think I will go back and disable comments.

[Amandaskategirl]

Another exercise which I think can be useful to get the ‘up’ and the rotational position with crossed feet:

- upright spin (free leg extended to the side slightly with toe pointing in) – backspin
- upright spin – jump into backspin
- upright spin – jump starting the rotation of the backspin in the air.
- Same again but this time have the knee of your free leg high in the upright spin so that it replicates the position it should be in the air before getting into the crossed position

Also, I know that you have a very nice, high and strong three jump – loop, so maybe you could make it a bit harder – three jump-loop-loop-loop etc…

Small and quick three jump-loop combos from standstill can be good axel practise too.

HTH!

Your jumps are already looking excellent though! :bow:

[kateskate]

Thanks Amanda! I really should make myself do that upright spin jump backspin. I'm struggling with the jump part though - it ends up stepping.

[kateskate]

One more question, my coach thinks I need to try jumping in the harness to get the feeling of bringing my leg through on my axel. I've not tried jumping harness before. Does it help?

Thanks

[Mrs Redboots]

My coach swears by it for his pupils, but I know that opinions on here are mixed - some people find it really helpful, others hate it.

I have to admit that I haven't worn chest straps like that since I was in my pushchair, and don't propose starting again fifty years later!

[Skittl1321]

One more question, my coach thinks I need to try jumping in the harness to get the feeling of bringing my leg through on my axel. I've not tried jumping harness before. Does it help?

Thanks

I think the harness works wonders! I actually got into the harness for my loop jump (still have never done one outside of the harness) but also worked on a salchow, a toe-loop, half-flip, and a waltz jump while I was in it.

Since working in the harness, the loop has not gone anywhere, but my other jumps actually get off the ice, and I can do them from greater speeds then I used to have the guts to do.

Now clearly, I got into the harness for more remedial issues than you would need, but I'm so glad I had the opportunity to work on my jumps in it.

[kateskate]

Axels - I've rewatched my videos and read the comments - hopefully last point on this but I have been trying so so so hard to bend and kick up and through. I seem to lose all timing and sort of end up flinging myself forwards but not leaving the ice when I try and drive the FO edge, bend and kick through. It is like my skating foot gets stuck in the ice and I can't get the lift. I think a lot of it is bad muscle memory but has anyone had a similar problem. I can't seem to transfer the movement up and out. I either turn round with no lift or get stuck on the edge.

If I could get the take off I think the messy arms and free foot would be less?

:frus: :frus: Especially since I have done this jump and I just can't remember what it felt like!

[doubletoe]

Yes, I think the problem on the axel and double sal is that only the knee of your free leg comes through on the takeoff; your free leg is so bent that it's like this < and your foot is still behind the takeoff leg. Unless you have the shin of your free leg perpendicular to the ice on takeoff, the whole free leg won't come through, and then it's impossible to get into backspin position. So bend your free leg less and make sure you feel your free foot coming around and down as you take off and get backward over the landing hip. As you take off, focus on the toes of your takeoff foot (pointing them had) and the shin and foot of your free leg staying closer to the ice and coming through and around (just like on your toeloop takeoff, where you do not seem to have this problem).
Also, you are waiting too long to take off on the axel. You are still on the ice and starting to rotate after the free leg comes through. Focus on taking off forward and straight up off the toe (push straight out over the takeoff knee, roll up onto the toe and pop straight up off the toe). Do lots of waltz-loop-loops to get the correct timing on the takeoff and get the feeling of that transition over the landing hip after takeoff.
The problem is the same on the double salchow, i.e., the free leg is too bent so the free foot stays behind you instead of coming through with the knee. Make sure you take off from a pointed toe on the double salchow, too.

[kateskate]

Thank you! I was so conscious of trying to kick through that I forget to think about the position of my free foot. I'll try and make sure I keep it perpendicular and not like >

The turning on the ice is a big problem too! And I feel I rotate around my right side rather than getting into a left backspin position. I've been doing a lot of 3 jump backspin and 3 jump loop loop recently to try and fix this.

I'm going to print your reply and take it to the rink with me so I don't forget! Thank you.

[kander]

Thought you might like to know that your axel is similar to the way Sonjia Henie used to do it.

You need more speed to get more height, but if you speed up your jumps you'll have a heckuva time controlling the jump. You either need to dampen the swingy free leg or skid the take off. I'd recommend a little of each.

Kevin

[chowskates]

Argh. I videoed some of my jumps at the weekend and they just look messy. I try to pull my arms in and cross my feet but it doesn't seem to translate. I practise them off ice (although not as much as I could) and they are better off ice (although feet still don't cross) and I'm going to do more rotational exercises on ice too from now on. Any other tips gratefully received. Does anyone else have such a mental block about pulling their arms in and crossing their feet? How did you fix it? And I don't quite understand why my arms fly up at the end of a jump (well on axels at least). And my free leg sticks out in a very ugly fashion on landings.

Also I know they are all underrotated and the axel is particularly bad take-off wise. Argh. I can't seem to make myself stay in for the last bit of the turn (which presumably would be easier if I was actually pulled in correctly). And that axel - I know what to do but can't quite manage it.


Hi, as many have said, more kick, higher jump and straighter position in the air would make your jumps much much better. The suggestion of working on the single-loop combination would help. Also try single-backspin, concentrating on the free-leg position. :-)

Just a caution on your Axels that were pre-rotated - I saw someone do something rather similar at Mountain Cup last year, and it got called as a salchow instead!!

[A bit OT: As for YouTube, you can also post the video as "private" so it won't appear on YouTube searches & only those who have the link would be able to view the videos.]

Cheers,
Chow

[SynchroSk8r114]

Along with the others who have commented, you need to really bring your knee up and through on the axel and double sal. Concentrate on jumping UP and then rotate. The video shows that you are really taking off already rotating, which gives you no height and makes you wrap your free leg like you are. The big single with big loop on the end is a good idea. Singles working on going as big as you can while as straight in the air as possible might also be a good idea.

Great advice. I agree that you can really get some major lift by powering your free leg through with a little more knee. Sometimes it appears (on the axel and double salchow) that you are not taking off from your toe completely. Also, maybe you can try working on your core strength. You seem to break at the waist a little, so you really should work on pulling your belly button into your spine, which will also help control whippy landings. Good luck! :D

[looplover]

My jumps aren't good, so I can't offer any advice- but I wish there was a way From skaters I tend to get nice comments about my progress from you tube I get "u sux" or "why bother posting this crap"

I too don't see the point in posting that. So generally I take the video down after a week so that skatingforums and people who read my blog can reply to it.



Google video has a new "unlisted" feature - you can just send the link around to people.

[Isk8NYC]

Google video has a new "unlisted" feature - you can just send the link around to people.So does Yahoo!360.

[doubletoe]

My jumps aren't good, so I can't offer any advice- but I wish there was a way to turn youtube comments off. I find posting videos helpful- because I can ask advice of others here, as well as post them to my blog- so that people know that when I say "I did a great waltz jump today" that great is WAY relative. I don't want blog readers to think I'm amazing, because I'm clearly not. From skaters I tend to get nice comments about my progress from you tube I get "u sux" or "why bother posting this crap"

I too don't see the point in posting that. So generally I take the video down after a week so that skatingforums and people who read my blog can reply to it.

Thanks for sharing your videos, sorry I have nothing to offer.

Actually, you can click a box that requires that all comments be approved by you before they are posted. If you don't like them, they don't get posted! ;)