ice vs. roller

[sue123]

I went and bought myself a pair of rollerblades recently, thinking that since I'm not having much chance ot go to the rink, I can go skating outside and try to keep some of the muscles. I figured they would be the same ones because my logic was skating is skating. Well, today was the first time I tried them out, and I don;t know if maybe not all the pnuemonia is cleared up even though I'm still on antibiotics, or maybe because I haven;t done any kind of exercise for about a week, or maybe I'm more out of shape than I thought I was, but I found roller skating to be much more difficult. Maybe because there's more friction so you have to push harder, I don;t know. I came back home after half an hour sweaty, beet red, and my legs aching. Maybe I'm just not used to working in the sun since ice skating is generally done indoors in a freezing rink. Any one else inline skate? Is it harder for anyone else? Does it use the same muscles?

I kept forgetting I was on rollerblades, so I kept trying to do edges, mohawks, it's much more difficult on inlines. I also found that i balanced better on ice skates. But it was fun. When I was little, I used to spend hours upon hours on my rollerblades. Soon as I came home from school until the time the sun went down, I was rollerblading. And even after it got dark, I would rollerblade in our basement. Then I lost it sometime over the years, but hopefully after a few times, it'll feel natural again.

[dbny]

Rollerblading is great cross training for ice and does use the same muscles. Not only is there a lot more friction on rollerblades, but you don't have the same kind of contact that you have between the edges of a blade and the ice. There are special rollerblades made to more closely mimic figure skates. They're called picframes. I got my younger DD a pair and she was able to do three turns, Mohawks, spins and jumps. The real drawback is that any imperfection in the surface, as on ice, becomes a problem, and the outdoor surfaces available for rollerblading are not groomed. You should wear full protective gear for rollerblading outdoors, as the potential for ripping up soft tissue is pretty high. If you search, you'll find at least one other thread on this topic.

[Sessy]

Picblades? I'd like those!

I've got really really cheap quad roller skates. Now, they come in competitive and recreational and the recreational ones, their wheels make it impossible to do REAL 3-turns (not skidded ones) and spins, because their wheels are mounted on so tight and so straight that it won't work. Competitive ones apparently have wheels that give in a little or something, I'm not sure.

Anyway it's great for practicing edges. I had NO edges before summer, practiced edges on those all summer and my idea is that I have way more control over my edges than other people at my level. Though that might just be in my head.

Anyway whenever I need to learn some edge work, I put on the roller skates. Once I can do it on those, it's a piece of cake on ice. Ice requires far less musclepower for the edges and is also far more forgiving to mistakes.
The only thing I think I might've messed up a little is that I leaned far too far into the 3-turns right after summer for a few weeks, making them incredibly steep on ice. I think that's a bad habit from trying to do 3-turns on those cheap quad roller skates.

[dbny]

I've got really really cheap quad roller skates. Now, they come in competitive and recreational and the recreational ones, their wheels make it impossible to do REAL 3-turns (not skidded ones) and spins, because their wheels are mounted on so tight and so straight that it won't work. Competitive ones apparently have wheels that give in a little or something, I'm not sure. ......

The only thing I think I might've messed up a little is that I leaned far too far into the 3-turns right after summer for a few weeks, making them incredibly steep on ice. I think that's a bad habit from trying to do 3-turns on those cheap quad roller skates.

Precision quad skates have the wheels mounted on trucks which allow lateral movement of the front and back wheels, which is what allows edging.

The balance points for ice and quads for all of the one foot turns are totally different. On quads you have to have your weight on one wheel which pivots, while the other three slide across the floor. It's one move that does not translate well at all, much to my chagrin.

[sue123]

Picblades? I'd like those!


I would like those too, but I have plain old inline skates. They're just the recreational ones.

[xpander]

Snow White inline figure skates are the latest development since the the PIC skates. Older Rollerblades will at least allow you to "rocker" the skates, although this is a feature that seems to be abandoned, this allows a curve to the wheel base, although its pretty awkward.

[peanutskates]

how about getting cheap roller boots, but mounting PICs on them?

otoh, maybe you can't take the wheel frame off cheap skates. hmm...

[masterskater]

I have to comment on this thread. I am a former World Class Artistic roller skater (quads) and I know skate in Championship Masters Men's. Placed 3rd last year at AN. I was US and International champion on rollers for many years before swtiching to ice.

The quads are the best for simulating figure ice skating. You do need to adjust the trucks to make them easier to do edges. I was able to do triples and all spins and some things you can't even do on ice. Like 7 jump combinations with double loops (back when I was 22) now 49!

Pick skates / in lines are hard to spin on and it depends greatly on what type of surface you are on. I suggest an indoor roller rink. Skating outdoors on concrete or ashphalt is very slow and difficult to even spin at all. Jumps are about the same. They also make different types of wheels. Some more advance types of wheels spin easier (slicker) and the recreation skate wheels are soft (slow).

I have tried almost every type of skate ever made in roller or ice and I can speak from experience since I also own a pro shop and sell ice and roller skates.

If anyone has addtional comments/questions I would be happy to elaborate or give you additional tips on cross training from roller to ice or vice versa.


Burton Powley (Masterskater)

[kayskate]

Masterskater, I really enjoyed your post and can relate to much of what you said. While I do not have your competitive exp, I grew up on quads (now I'm 40), no lessons, just rec. However, I learned to do a lot of FS moves by watching others at the roller rink or ice skating on tv. When I finally started ice skating and taking lessons, I progressed very quickly. I attribute this fast progress to roller exp. After a couple public sessions w/o any lessons, I could do a lot of basic skating skills on ice that I could do on quads. Once I took lessons, I learned new things very fast.

To the original poster, I have done quad distance skating and rink picskating. Both build muscle. Once you get back on the ice, you will skate noticably faster w/ less effort. IMO, it is great x-training. I need to get back to it. I have had no luck spinning on pics, though I am an adv ice spinner. IMO, picskates are great for edges and basic skills. A few yrs ago I took quad dance and compulsory figure lessons. Had to give it up b/c I had too much on my plate, but it was great for my ice skating. If it would work into my schedule better, I would have kept doing it. Maybe in the future.

Kay

[Sessy]

how about getting cheap roller boots, but mounting PICs on them?

You can take them off but I'd not recommend it. Cheap quad skates offer NO anckle support and I nearly twisted my ankcle a few times landing because of that. I'm guessing on pic skates you'd be even more tempted to do jumps.

[kayskate]

Mounting pics or quads is a great way to recycle old ice boots. When the boots don't have enough ankle support for ice skating, it is still enough (in my exp) for roller. In fact, quad roller skaters have to move their ankles more in the boot to do things like broken-ankle spins. My roller coaches had much less stiff boots than I did for ice.
Kay

[Zoomana]

I practice everything on my quad skates that I do on ice (with the exception of advanced spins and loop/salchow). I find it helps my ice skating a lot.

My quad boots are an old pair of Reidell Silver Stars that were too broken in for ice, with Atlas 2000 plates (they were pretty expensive/about $500 for the plates, wheels and bearings).

I can actually do a spread eagle on roller (which I can't in my stiff ice boots/it's not a natural move for me). I think when I roller skate it really helps my ice skating. I learned shoot the duck on roller skates, which led to a better sit spin on ice and the ability to do back hydroblades.

I attended Roller Nationals in Nebraska a few years back, and it's amazing what people can do on the quads. One combo spin even brought tears to my eyes!

Roller blades, on the other hand, they can keep them. I tried them and found them to be nothing like ice and could barely stand up in them.

I would love to try the PIC skates, but it's too much money to shell out and find out I hate them.

I encourage anyone to try quad skating, but if you are trying rentals, realize they are totally different, as the wheels are generally locked into place and don't pivot underneath the boot like an artistic pair of quads would.

[kayskate]

I can actually do a spread eagle on roller (which I can't in my stiff ice boots/it's not a natural move for me).

Interesting. I could do a nice spread eagle on quads as a kid and Ina Bauer. I did them on a flat straight down the middle of the rink. I cannot do either on ice except on an inside edge on a fairly tight curve. Never thought it could be due to boot tightness, though that makes sense.

Kay

[Sessy]

Teehee I can't even do a bauer on rollers. or a spread eagle. Or anything that involves turning your hips outward, my hips just aren't made to bend that way unfortunately (but I have other pre's to make up for that).

However, I can do this... Like when you get on the back two wheels and the front two wheels? Cuz my stops are pretty high. And then slide that way... teehee I dunno if it looks like shit but it's handy crossing those rows of stones they put in the pavement to slow cars down near schools and such.


I did find a nice place to roller skate today btw. Not too far from home, concrete basketball field. Did toe-loops and half-flips, busting a screw on the flips i'll need to replace before I can practice again. I'm thinking the flip is attainable, I just need more protection before I try, I'm not about to risk my health. I'm never afraid on ice, but on concrete, I know falls have larger consequences from last year. So I'll be taking precautions. Right now, the knowledge that a full rev will probably result in falls at first is holding me back.

[ehick72]

First off I'd like to say my old rollerblades have served as a great cross training tool. I plan on using them for a long time. They are convient and a great supplement to my ice skating.

I have rollerbladed and rollerskated for years. Although I have only been ice skating for 7 months they have helped me a lot. The resistance has helped me in generating power and control in my crossovers, mohawks, and even going into my spins. Even though I can't spin in my rollerblades I practice starting my spin and 3-turn on them. I am doing waltz jumps but that is about it because I don't have a pick. I use the original Rollerblade Rollerblades that were more designed after a figure skate. They lace up and have a rocker. I removed the stopper and they work great.

However now I am considering investing in some Snow White frames since I am retiring my cheap riedell blue ribbon 121 ice skates. I was thinking about using those boots for some Snow White Frames. However my coach is suggesting suggesting not but then said it was ok but then said not again.

I don't if many of the people I talk to have that much experience with the off-ice stuff. The guy that sold me my new skates that I should buy another set of boots for the Snow White but I don't know if he understands that things are slower off ice. Also I am a 6'2" man and that may play into it also.


http://www.inlinefigure.com/images/Side(1)_m.JPG

[Bill_S]

Because you already have the boots, I'd go for it. You'll know within a few weeks of use whether the old boots will be sufficient.

I currently use PIC frames on a 5-year old pair of Riedell Bronze Stars that have creases clear around the side. They are broken down, but still sufficient for casual skating at the rink.

Boots do make a difference though. My first pair of boots (GAMS) for the PIC frames lasted only 6 months before I was having constant trouble with ankle pain. They were very soft when new and they were also fairly short, providing insufficient support. When I bought the Bronze Stars to replace the GAMS, the ankle pain immediately disappeared.

[Award]

I kept forgetting I was on rollerblades, so I kept trying to do edges, mohawks, it's much more difficult on inlines. I also found that i balanced better on ice skates.

Conventional rollerblades have all four wheels contacting the floor at the same time, which makes it difficult for the skate to change directions or curve around to one side.

Improved or less conventional rollerblades have less wheels (eg 3 wheels) or have wheels of different dimensions, or have a rockered frame to try to make profile more like rocker or curve of a ice skating blade. Unfortunately, you can only do so much because a ice skate blade is continuous along its length, while you can't have a continuous 'blade' by having wheels. So, at the moment, if you want something that feels a bit closer to ice skates, then maybe something like a pic skate might help.

[Sessy]

I'm rollerblading still! Mostly doing crossovers, cuz I can't jump with that anckle of mine right now (at least, I could, but then it's not exactly resting, is it?).

I feel outside mohawks and back inside edges are very difficult on roller skates. I've got quads. Inside mohawks are a piece of cake and actually I'm now managing to do 3-turns on quad rollers which have wheels that don't pivot (don't ask me how, back at the roller skating club they claimed it was impossible on these rollers0. My left outside forward 3-turn is best, my right inside forward 3-turn is shakey but there - I guess just because I practiced them SO often on ice for my jump set-ups. The other ones aren't there at all on quads.


It's freaking good for your stamina man, roller skating on concrete (in my case, asphalt). And not NEARLY as tough on those knees and anckles of mine as running is!


I've more or less found my balance on the roller skates now. Can do pretty abrupt stops, do 2-foot spins, spinning on 1 wheel on each leg, lift my leg up, things like that.

[ehick72]

The Snow White frames came in. Arthur Lee was real nice. I bought an extra set of wheels and he sent me the wrong size. Yesterday he sent me another set of wheels the right size and said I could keep the others.

I put the new frames on my old ice skates in a matter of 30 minutes going extremely slow. I was little worried about attempting this myself because of all the problems my skate guy here in Austin had with my new ice skates and the alignment of the blade.

I wanted to take more pictures of the what it took to put them on but it went so quickly I almost forgot to take these pictures. I did it on my coffee table while I was watching TV.

So here are the pictures.

First I removed the blades from my old skates. All the screws were fairly loose so they came off quick. Which frightened me!!

http://www.ergops.com/ericweb/aboutme/snowwhite/blades.jpg

Then I marked the center of the heel of the boot and put the rear screw in. Since the previous blade left marks on the boot it was pretty easy to find the right spot.

http://www.ergops.com/ericweb/aboutme/snowwhite/rearscrew.jpg

I then lined up the front of the frame with the seam in the boot.

http://www.ergops.com/ericweb/aboutme/snowwhite/Liningupfront.jpg

After that I only put a few screws in just in case I had to adjust it later.
http://www.ergops.com/ericweb/aboutme/snowwhite/screws.jpg

I skated around on them with the minimal screws to make sure everything felt right then I added a couple more screws and took them out last night.

http://www.ergops.com/ericweb/aboutme/snowwhite/FinishedSkate.jpg

They did pretty well. It took me a couple of minutes to get used to them and the toe stopper. Once I started to get the feel for it I skated for another 2 hours.

Forward and backward 3 turns were very easy the rocker helped a lot. I tried to spin and could only get one to come out and I think it was only about 2 revolutions.

I am really hoping I can get more practice in with these things during the week so I don't have to rush across town to the rink and neglect my dog. Now I can walk him to the park and practice my skating.

Also I noticed that while doing my edges I didn't have the speed and momentum I have on ice. Hopefully the extra resistance from the friction will help me on the ice.

Just thought I would share with you guys.

Eric

[Bill_S]

Veeeerrrry interesting!

I've had PIC skates for years, but have been annoyed by the sheer LENGTH of the four wheel frame. I've had close calls doing the roller equivalent of a blade "click".

It took a while for me to be able to do three turns on my PIC skates, but I did buy them at a time when I was learning the threes. Since the 3s came so easily for you, I wonder how different your skates are from mine. Unlike ice, I still can't do all the back-3s on my PICs.

Keep us posted.

[Morgail]

Wow - I need some of those that have the stopper in front!
Years ago, I bought some rollerblades thinking that it would be similar to ice skating. I put them on, went out, fell face-forward about 3 times onto the pavement, and never put them on again. The stoppers were in the back and there was NOTHING in the front. Not good when you're used to having a toepick!

[ehick72]

The only drawback was the price. With the prices of rollerblade being $40-$100 these are not what I consider cheap. I think they were like $275 when all was said and done. That included extra wheels and hardware.

However one of the reasons I picked them was that I will be able to keep them forever and mount them on any boot I want.

Plus the online learning they had on their website showed examples of doing anything from a camel spin to double jumps.

http://www.inlinefigure.com/elearning-introduction.htm

I've only been skating for about 7 months so I hope I made the right decision and they help me.

[Laura H]

I noticed they now have an "entry level" skate at Snow White - this one looks more like traditional rollerblades - but are rockered, with the toe stop - and these are only $75.00. I don't know how great they would be for jumps & spins, but might be fun to tool around in . . . :?:

[kayskate]

I have also had scary "click" experiences w/ picskates.
Eric, have you tried Pics? Can you compare them to Snow Whites? I wonder if the Snow Whites are easier to use for spins and turns. I find the pics very difficult.

Kay

[Sessy]

click experience?

[Bill_S]

You know... the "click of death" caused by stepping onto your other blade.

It's often followed by an expletive just before you hit the ice in a heap.

[Sessy]

Oh I tend to do that on 2x2 roller skates a lot, step onto the wheels. Been lucky most the time so far, catching my balance before I nose-dive...

[kayskate]

Found a discussion of Picskates vs. Snow White on "SkateLog Forum
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating".
http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=623

Kay

[ehick72]

I have also had scary "click" experiences w/ picskates.
Eric, have you tried Pics? Can you compare them to Snow Whites? I wonder if the Snow Whites are easier to use for spins and turns. I find the pics very difficult.

Kay

Kay,

I have never used the pics. They look easier for spins from what I have seen because of that roller in the front. I see people spin on the front wheel and roller. The only spin I accomplished thus far on the snow whites felt like it was on the front wheel but I am not sure. I have not been successful since. Once I start doing some spins I will let you know how well they work.

Now if I can just keep from getting laughed at or beat up for that matter by all the X-game rollerbladers at the skate park. I don't think they like me doing Spirals on their turf!


Eric