backspin help

[AW1]

My daughter is having problems mastering the backspin. She can do a forward spin really well, but her backspin is well.... crapola! She seems to be doing it on her toe, and this is stopping her from spinning and causing her to go all out of control.

I'm just wondering if anyone can perhaps give another perspective as sometimes just telling them one little thing can make all the difference.

Appreciate your help!

[Sessy]

Maybe she actually needs to push her chestbone over her toepicks and reach with her neck forwards over the toepicks and instead push her hips backward and tense her belly muscles. I know it sounds ridiculous to somebody who's already too much on the toepicks to push further onto the toepicks but doing what I described changes the entire balance making it easyer to stay off the toepicks, for me anyway. I think the way this works is that even if you loose balance and get too far on the back of the blade, you still fall forward because your body goes where your chest and head are.

[Laura H]

Both MY backspin and my SON'S backspin are . . . likewise ;) wonder if it's a hereditary thing!!!

One thing my instructor said Monday, and that seemed to help, although it wasn't a magical cure by any stretch of the imagination, was that you don't really use your right shoulder to push into the spin, it needs to stay back and let the left shoulder lead. Because I was trying to involve my right shoulder (a la forward spin entry) and it was knocking me off balance. So I have been trying to keep it back during the entry and it seems to help somewhat.

[myste12]

I had an excellent group class coach who gave us tons of helpful backspin drills. One of my favorites (assuming you skate CCW) was to do a forward inside 3turn on the right foot, and on the exit to hold the left arm and leg in front of you. If you could keep the left arm and leg in front, the circle would gradually get smaller. We'd hold the exit edge that way until we came to a stop. It doesn't sound terribly difficult, but it wasn't easy to master. The drill helps get the skater over the right side and on the back outside edge (instead of the toepick) which are both very important when you do the actual backspin.

Best of luck with it!

[b viswanathan]

I've been working really hard on the backspin this year, and I have to say, it can be one of those things that just takes a lot of time to master. Your daughter may just need time and patience - they're tricky to get the feel of, and can be incredibly challenging.

That said, here's what I've tried to use ("tricks") to help:
(i) Make sure the hips are really square. Sometimes there's a tendency to raise one hip (I find the freeleg hip goes up without my knowing it), and that can make you tilt. It can throw you onto your toepick, too.
(ii) This is one of my favorite little devices: I try to touch the tips of my skating toe to the top of my boot inside the skate *as I'm spinning*. Of course, it's not noticeable - just an idea - but it gets me off the toepick. You can even say "toes up!" to yourself to remember. Nice and easy. Also can work wonders on your loop if you have problems scratching on takeoff.
(iii) What are her arms doing? I sometimes find my right shoulder/arm can dip alarmingly on the entrance edge, throwing the whole spin off. Try to keep parallel to the ice when entering. An observer can help check this.
(iv) Check head position. It shouldn't stick out (often happens when the shoulders are rolling forward, too); tell her to pull up through the top of her head (or up from the ponytail, if she has one) and keep chin tucked in. I find I go on the toepick far more if my head is thrust out - weight is thrown forward by the top of the body.

Obviously, these are all things that work for *me*. They may or may not help your daughter - but see if any of them click. I hope they do!

bv

[vesperholly]

A very simple tip that helped me was to bend my free leg. The position is similar to the lowercase h - get your thigh parallel to the ground. It really helps me keep my balance in the right spot and the spin centered.

[Skate@Delaware]

Have her warm up doing some back edges on that same foot. This helps her get a feel for the proper edge. Then watch to make sure she is bending in her spinning leg. If it's too straight, she will pitch forward onto her toepick!

I also was "blocking" my spin with my shoulders. It helps if I concentrate on squeezing my shoulder blades together, press my arms down (i.e.keep tension), and be sure the leading shoulder is back a bit further. I am still doing the backspin from a pivot (standing then going around) for now.

[AW1]

thanks for all the suggestions - I will have her try some of them on her next day on ice (tomorrow)

vesperholly, I think you may have it with the bending of the free leg thing as she does not seem to bend it at all ...

[Lmarletto]

My daughter had a terrible time with the backspin until she started working on the change foot spin. Something about the momentum from the forward spin helped her to get the feel of the backspin. Once she had a couple of revolutions on the backspin portion of the change foot spin, the regular backpin drills were much more productive.

[Sessy]

At my club, they skip the backspin and go to changefoot straight away.

[mintypoppet]

A very simple tip that helped me was to bend my free leg. The position is similar to the lowercase h - get your thigh parallel to the ground. It really helps me keep my balance in the right spot and the spin centered.

This made a lot of difference to my backspin last evening! No extra revs, but more stable and less inclined to falling off the toepick - I even managed to exit it a couple of times. Thanks!