Skating lawyers

[edgygirl]

Lately, while browsing through the posts, I've come across so many law students and lawyers. I was kind of hoping to get us all together on one thread. I'm very curious to see how many are on here.

I've been practicing for about five years now as a public defender. I've only been skating for just short of a year. I handle some pretty serious cases and always wonder how my clients would react if they knew that I was wearing skating tights under my suit so that I don't have to waste time once I get to the rink. Or if they were to see my in my skating skirt and legwarmers. My coworkers seem to think my skating is hilarious. I don't think my clients would be quite as amused.

Generally, I'm able to make time for skating. The only exception is when I'm in trial. Unfortunately, that's also the time I really need the stress relief, so it sucks that I can't get to the rink. We had an outdoor rink near my office during the winter and it was great to run there during lunch or after work. I'm the only figure skater in the office, but we do have several hockey players who were more than willing to come out and skate with me. Right now, I'm pleading with my boss to transfer me to a courthouse that is next to a small rink. I think he's a little afraid that I might not be able to focus... and he might just be right!

By the way, the little girls at my rink love to ask about my job. They sometimes point me out to their friends and say "she's a lawyer and she works with criminals!" Not really the way I like to describe my job, but they find it fascinating.

It's an odd combo, but so far it has worked for me. I have pretty good hours. However, my friends at firms do work some crazy hours and I don't think they really have a lot of spare time. Any other skating lawyers (or law students)? How does it work out for you?

[Sessy]

I'm studying law, in the Netherlands and considering that you have to study for 3 more years while working to be an attorney in law (meaning 60-70 hour weeks) after graduating your master and considering that you can't just get ice "whenever" here in the Netherlands but are pretty much always stuck with group lessons (unless you're already doing like 2A's), that's not gonna be possible. So I'm, in all likelyhood, not going to be an attorney in law. Unless I work for the government in public cases, in public law you don't have to go through all that to plead in court and stuff. It is my secondary area of interest so I might go in that direction yet. Government workers don't earn so much money but it's possible to work 4x9 hours instead of 5x8 hours, earning almost the same amount of money but only working 4 days for example. That's great for skating and for the possibility of kids (considering I'm a woman, I take that into account - most law firms here in the Netherlands think 36 hours a week is "parttime" and you already won't make a career if you do that - the government is different about that).

I'd also like to teach (at our - or any - university) to be honest. :lol: I'm just not sure if it's realistic. That is, I'd *REALLY* like to teach. But For that, I'd need to do research for a few years and mom will go nuts if I do - my grandmother did when she was small and the kids always went hungry because of that so she'll prolly kill me if I try to get into teaching...

Pretty much the one thing I'm sure I won't be getting into is criminal law. When I went to study law I just wanted to become a prosecutor, to revenge what was done to me as a child but I notice for myself that I would not psychologically be up for it. Same for family law. Those are two areas I've ruled out for myself. The rest, I enjoy very much.

I did a few cases already! Whehehe. We had some problems with the government ourselves, which I didn't solve because legally, it was impossible to solve it (let's face it, you build against a permit and the neighbours keep protesting, it won't ever be legalized) but I did arrange that they wouldn't break down the shed for a few years and now we moved to a different place all together so it's not even our problem anymore (just my ex-stepfather's). Also we had problems with a provider over a contract and I kind of did solve that - from what I understand, quite successfully! My professor for Court Practice (that's a subject) is in a VERY similar fight with the same provider right now for his day job, and the case we have to do in court practice is nearly identical to the one I did last year with that provider, except now I'm the provider. And both my court practice teacher and the lawyer that my stepfather went to for legal advise have all said that I've done very well, found all the applicable precedents and laws and treaties and arguments and done everything very lawful and sound. So yay!
I enjoy this sort of practical stuff very much.

Now my mom's gotten into a fight with the cable tv company. I'm wrubbing my hands here! Mwuahahaha :)

[Morgail]

LOL at thinking of wearing skating tights under a suit:lol:

I'm in my last year of law school (finally!). I haven't found it too difficult to have enough time to skate with school...though I'm not sure how it will work out when I get a "grown-up" job in the fall. I'm hoping to work at a small firm doing some sort of civil work - maybe insurance litigation or debtor/creditor work. I'm hoping I like doing the work full-time. Right now I'm kind of in a slump & wondering if this is what I really want to do.

I'm clerking part-time now (full-time in the summer) and love how laid-back my little firm is. They had no problem with me running off last summer for a lesson once a week so long as I got my work done. From my experience, smaller firms tend to be nicer about not working you to death and allowing more flexible hours (which is good for skating and for the kids I hope to have sometime in the near future).

I'm thinking that skating will provide an excellent distraction from studying for the bar exam this summer! Not quite looking forward to seven weeks of bar prep classes...

[TreSk8sAZ]

I'm in my 1L year at the Sandra Day O'Connor College at Arizona State. It's been an interesting transition as I'm young for my class (I got out of undergrad early, but I worked for a year in a law firm before starting). I find that skating saved my sanity while getting used to law school. So many quit because they couldn't handle the stress, and skating was a great way to relieve it.

I changed coaches when I moved up here, and it was a great change. I love them both. We also have tons of ice (basically 5 a.m. - 4 every day) so finding time hasn't been a problem. During finals it's a bit more stressful, so I take a week off. I'm not allowed to work this year, so I'm nervous about getting a summer job (if I ever find one) and skating, but with so much ice I don't see it being that much of a problem.

I have no clue what type of law I want to practice, so any stories about what you all practice would be great. I'm doing pro bono right now (Justice Project [criminal defense] and VITA [tax]) and the firm I worked in was estate palnning/probate, so I have some experience, but still figuring out what else there is. We actually just finished a writ of habeus corpus for our Justice Project case -- it's a 56 page work of art! Now, if only the day would come where my name could be on it with the lawyers... =)

[mikawendy]

LOL at thinking of wearing skating tights under a suit:lol:

Been there, done that! I'm not a lawyer, but sometimes I go straight from skating to work. Usually I have about an hour to get there, change, put on skates, etc., but one time I was going to a session that started just after I got out of work. It's about a 10 minute drive to the rink from my work, so I changed into my skating clothes during a late lunch break, put my work clothes on over them. I felt all frazzled, though by the time I got to the rink and got my skates on, maybe because I had just come in from the car and didn't have the usual time to change clothes, get warmed up, etc. Oh, the things we do to skate! :lol:

[b viswanathan]

I'm a former lawyer who would never have had time to practice skating seriously while practicing law. I practiced corporate law in NY and MA for around 4 years, which was fun but not how I'd like to spend the rest of my life. I then worked in other areas and became interested in intellectual property law, which I'm now writing a doctoral dissertation on (so I can teach). It's much easier to find free time to skate when you're a student, but of course much harder to find the funds to support the habit. I'd rather have the time, honestly - I like a balanced lifestyle - but I still admire those who stuck it out (like my sister, brother-in-law, and law school buddies) and who are now hugely successful practitioners.

Sessy, what does it take to teach law in the Netherlands? Here, it does not take a million degrees - that's just the road I'm trying to take - but usually it requires graduating at the very top of your class, law review, and often a clerkship or two (federal, i.e., appellate or if possible Supreme Court). A second degree (PhD) is increasingly useful, too. Publications are a must...

I find skating so wonderful that it's hard to commit hours to staring at the computer when I'd really rather be on the ice! But of course, skating as an adult is sheerly for joy - it would be silly (and impossible), at my level, to seek anything else - and I try to see it as a "treat". Even though my coach is very expensive, though, she's a necessity to me. Without her, I think I'd quickly fall apart. I need to have her whack me over the head each week!

If anyone wants to chat about practice (corp. or IP), I'd be glad to PM.

[Sessy]

No, I disagree. Skating *is* my life, it pulled me from the depths of a depression like nothing I'd ever been through before AND it did something about the constant tiredness (like sleeping 14 hours a day) that a serious disease a few years ago had left me with. Whenever I don't skate for a week or two, I get tired like that all over again and it's very debilitating.

I don't know what clerkships are but our law system is very different anyway. Also it doesn't actually take having practiced law in court to teach it, because our law system is so different from yours. From what I gather, yours is very ad-hoc, ours is very structured. We work on books, not on precedents, and the *idea* is that the judge only applies what is in the law books and makes no choices for him/herself... Of course, that's irrealistic because the books aren't always clear, but, if something's not in the books or it is in there, no matter how unfair, the judge has to apply it. But, we do have precedents of some sort, but those are just the way the current High Counsil explains certain terms that are in the law and if a few of the elderly gentlemen in the High Counsil die and are replaced by other elderly gentlemen (or perhaps gentlewomen one of these days?) who have a different view, you can throw away all those precedents. Same goes for European laws - well they're not laws (as in, they don't bind subjects, only states) but I don't think English even has the proper term for expressing what they are, because Europe is less than a federation but more than a confederation.
A lot of the teachers are coming from a research master (writing a dissertation or having finished it already) or from government positions in the political and administrative branch.

[kateskate]

I started skating just as I was finishing my law degree. I only skated once a week then. Carried on through law school which worked out fine as where I studied, we only had 4 half days of classes - 9am to 1.30pm but were then expected to study continuously until 6pm. But of course that gave me enough flexibility to skate.

I didn't work in law for the first year after I left law school so fitting in skating was not a problem. My next job as a paralegal also gave me enough time to skate as it was a medium sized firm and I worked in litigation rather than corporate or finance (notorious for long hours). I think I was late for skating a grand total of twice in the 2 years. I was however quite strict about not missing skating. Maybe there was something wrong with me but I didn't feel bad about saying 'I can't stay I have a skating lesson'. It was never really an issue and I never left to skate if there was something urgent to do.

Now I work in a bigger firm but still as a paralegal and still in litigation. I have been late for and missed skating many more times but that is to be expected. I am quite strict if I have a lesson but if it is just practice and we are manic I will stay. I have noticed an improvement since I've been skating in the mornings though. That way I can stay late and get everything finished and not be that person who has to leave early. In my experience and from the firms I've worked in the culture seems to be more of a start late (when I say late I mean 9.30am) and finish late. Even when I get in early there is usually not a lot to do until 10am ish and invariably I still end up staying just as late as I would have done if I'd been in at 9.30am. Skating in the mornings means I can skate and still be committed to my job. And if I have to be in early I usually know enough in advance (for hearings, meetings etc) to be able to rearrange skating lessons.

I am however not yet qualified and it is easier as a paralegal. I start my training contract in September (in the UK you have to do a law degree or a non law degree plus a one year conversion course and then one year of law school first. Then you have to do a 2 training contract in a law firm and only then are you a qualified solicitor). We shall see how the skating fits in with my new job. It is a much smaller firm than the one I am in now and it is predominantly litigation work. Hopefully I'll still be able to skate in the mornings. I'd be so sad if I couldn't skate. I think being able to skate makes me work better.

I'm not especially career driven (is that weird for someone who chose law?). I work hard and I am very committed to my job but I love my skating!

[b viswanathan]

Kate, of course not being career-driven is not weird for someone who chooses law - I think it's awesome! Part of the problem of practicing at a very large multinational firm (especially in a big city like NY or London) is that the very assumption of being career-obsessed isn't questioned, but is rather stipulated as a condition of the job. It's awfully hard to work 60 hrs. a week if you're not totally committed ("driven") to plowing away...

But of course there are many, many law jobs that aren't as gruelling as big corporate practice. I'm glad I tried it; but honestly, never again.

Sessy, I did know something about your legal system, as several of my fellow LLMs were European (some Dutch, too). But I still don't quite get how to become a law prof there. Mostly I've known the ones who come from research in other fields. As I do more EC law (in IP, at WIPO I hope), it'll be interesting to see.

Anyway, it's very inspiring to hear how much skating has meant to you and how much it has done for you. I'm finding that more and more it gives me great mental release and that "endorphin rush" they say runners have. I am so glad I started skating again.

Kate, do you like paralegaling, or are you eagerly awaiting practice? Do the attorneys at your firm have time to pursue their outside interests?

[edgygirl]

I really wish I had skated while I was in law school. Maybe it would have kept me from getting all wound up and tweaked out during my first year. I managed to fit in a lot of other stuff my second and third years, so it probably would have been easy enough to have sketed. Unfortunately, I didn't discover my skating itch till much later.

Sessy- I think government work here is probably pretty similar to what you have there. I am on a schedule where I get every other friday off (we work 80 hours in 9 days). The work can be incredibly stressful, but my coworkers are great and the hours are generally very reasonable (for law). It's also very stable.

Skating has added so much to my life. I can't count how many times I've gone to the rink all stressed out about a case, but managed to clear my head and figure things out while just skating circles. I often have a lot of weight on my shoulders (many of my clients are facing life in prison), and sometimes the only thing that lets me relax and forget about it for a time is concentrating on whatever I'm doing on the ice. It's great because I am forced to set the stressful crap aside and clear my mind otherwise I end up on my rear end. It's also the most fun exercise I know, I've made many new non-law friends and I met my boyfriend at the rink (he's one of those gross hockey guys). Hooray for skating!

Morgail- Good luck on the bar exam. That was not a fun time- but it'll be worth it in the end. Maybe you can talk your rink into playing PMBR cd's over the speakers while you skate!? I'm sure you could work out a lovely program skating to the torts review tape!:D

[Sessy]

You write a lot and do a lot of research and hope you're lucky (that is, you've gotta know people, like everywhere else). It helps to have been affiliated with a faculty beforehand, have close working relationships with professors and such. Through what - well working as an assistent for example, or sitting in the university counsil or whatever. And just you know being the type of person they're looking for, roll into it and bite yourself and clamp yourself into it.
But, oftentimes, former lawyers who pleaded landmark cases before the high counsil or something are invited to teach. And stuff. Just different ways. There's not really like ONE way. You don't even need to have written a dissertation to teach by the way. Does make a difference salarywise though.

Lawschool... Stressfull? I know some think so. I'm always the one who, with 5-10 minutes left on the clock before a deadline, flips through the group project scanning for mistakes that could cost points and are easily corrected. I'm the one who can work for 36 hours in a row and still be sharper than people who did sleep the night. I'm pretty much deadlineproof. However, afterwards I'll easily sleep 18-22 hours in a row.
I actually like the deadlines myself.

I participated in the national fastpleading contest this month. You get a lawcase and 30 minutes (or was that 20?) to prepare it and argue it before real judges against an other team. There's like 4-7 people on a team. Gotta love seeing people freak out realizing they have 5 minutes left! I dunno I've just never been one to freak out over time. Probably because I've never missed a deadline in my life (and hope to keep it that way).


During the last exam period, when my bachelorthesis was also due, I didn't sleep for 1-2 nights per week during 4 weeks and only like 5 hours on the other nights. I kept skating 3x p w, one week I didn't go skating and that's when I collapsed, so I just went skating again and I was fine again. Even though I wasn't getting nearly enough sleep.