Childless skaters?

[Rusty Blades]

There were a few comments made on other threads that caused me to stop and think about the (mature) women I know who don't have children and I realized that percentage-wise I know far more older women skaters who are childless than I do among the general population. Considering I know only a few dozen older women skaters and hundreds of non-skaters, this struck me as maybe more than pure coincidence. Is there a connection between not having had kids and skating as a (supposedly mature) adult?

I knew as a teenager that children were very unlikely; now in my 50's I HOPE it's unlikely - LOL! Any connection to skating? Maybe financial, maybe "free time", maybe something to do with self-reliance? I do enjoy being among the teenage girls and listening to the chatter - reminds me of my own teen years - maybe surrogate daughters?

Anybody else want to comment?

[cathrl]

Most of the mature women skaters I know either don't have kids or their kids are grown up. The few who don't fit this pattern have kids who skate.

I think it's largely a time thing. I don't know if you saw the thread in the other section about whether people's kids are doing too much, but if you look at the list of the activities those kids are doing and then imagine a similar schedule in some sport other than skating, there's no way a mum would have time for skating herself, unless she didn't work and could do it while the kids were at school. Now it's entirely possible that there are loads of mums like that at my rink - but I'd never meet them.

In fact, I can't off the top of my head think of ANY mum I know with school age kids who skates but whose kids don't.

[jskater49]

Most of the mature women skaters I know either don't have kids or their kids are grown up. The few who don't fit this pattern have kids who skate.

I think it's largely a time thing. I don't know if you saw the thread in the other section about whether people's kids are doing too much, but if you look at the list of the activities those kids are doing and then imagine a similar schedule in some sport other than skating, there's no way a mum would have time for skating herself, unless she didn't work and could do it while the kids were at school. Now it's entirely possible that there are loads of mums like that at my rink - but I'd never meet them.

In fact, I can't off the top of my head think of ANY mum I know with school age kids who skates but whose kids don't.

I skated a little while my kids were still young and my husband was alive. After he died it was too overwhelming to work and take care of the kids and skate...then I got started again but my daughter really got into it and there just wasn't the money for both of us to skate so I stopped again. Now they are older, I've got a new job and a little more money.

j

[Mrs Redboots]

We started after our daughter got hooked when she took a learn-to-skate class via her school. She gave up skating when she went to university, but we carried on....

There are several "skating families" at our rink where one or both parents skate alongside their children.

[Bill_S]

There are four adult skaters at our rink (used to be five). Three are childless, and that includes me.

One woman with children skates here, and she is also very active in all levels of the community including hosting a weekly radio show about her other passion of astronomy. She's a superwoman.

The other male skater who used to skate with his daughter fell fairly hard, and was discouraged by his wife from doing much skating. He still finds time for an occasional public session with his daughter though.

Having had brothers and sisters who raised families, I can see that child rearing takes an extreme amount of energy and time. No wonder there aren't many skating moms and dads.

[coskater64]

There are 3 of us over 40 who skate, 2 with no children one with several children. All of us skated as children, and just enjoy the sport, my friend with children came back to the sport once her youngest was in HS. I know several skaters with and without children but only a few with children who skate as well.

[quarkiki2]

Not me! I started as an adultbefore having Milo, skated with him until 7 months pregnant, had him, got back on the ice and am now pregnant again. Although I'm basically just teaching tots and practicing stroking drills at this point -- I'm helping coach the Synchro team as I won't be skating the rest of the season with them and I've stopped jumping and spinning entirely. Baby is due September 11, 2007 and, at 14 weeks, the little bugger is a pretty active one already.

[Team Arthritis]

Hmm not much of a correlation at our rink. I would never have started skating if it wasn't for my kids. I was trying to be a good sport and joined group lessons with the rest of the family, never could have afforded it when I was growing up so never really considered looking into skating. Didn't like it when I started, now I dream about it :)
Lyle

[skaternum]

We have about 30 adult skaters over the age of 25 in our area. The vast majority of them do not have children. I can only think of a handful that DO have kids, and the kids vary in age from preschool to college age. And in my experience, when a female adult skater gets pregnant and has a child, the chances of her coming back to the ice any time soon are pretty slim.

Speaking for myself, I'm sure that I wouldn't have the time and energy to able to rear a child, work, and skate. I could probably handle 2 at a time, but not all 3.

[jazzpants]

We probably have just as many skating adults out here as skaternum says, if not more... some of them are married, many are in gay relationships and in probably the majority of the cases, don't have the financial and time committment means to having kids either thru surrogate or adoption means.

For me, I don't have the energy, time or financial means to have a child. Plus, moving is not really an option for either my husband or me b/c of our work.

As for having a child and then coming back on the ice...well, so far I have one woman who has come back to skate, though not as consistently as she would like. (i.e. she probably will never compete and she's skating since she's also a coach.) The other person now is either close to having her child or already has her child. We're all waiting to see if she will be back skating again, but this skater is also not a competing skater herself and wasn't even making the commitment to put in enough time or money to skate even when she was childless, so I doubt she will be back as well too.

[doubletoe]

It's a time and money thing for me. We were trying to get pregnant but when you don't get married until your late 30's and there are also financial stresses, it just isn't that easy. I'm 42 now and it still hasn't happened, so I'm just looking at the bright side and telling myself that if I had a baby I wouldn't have the time or money to keep skating. Gotta love that silver lining. . . :)

[jazzpants]

I'm just looking at the bright side and telling myself that if I had a baby I wouldn't have the time or money to keep skating. Gotta love that silver lining. . . :)I tell myself that I make a better AUNTIE to all the little kids in the world than I would a mommy... :halo: :P :lol:

[herniated]

Hi All!
I have a second grader and I do compete. I started skating as an adult before he was born around 15 years ago. I can't skate as often as I used to (5-6) days/week. Now I skate 3days/wk, I still make progress but more slowly.And I have to skate the early morning freestyles or right after I put him on the bus. And I don't travel to compete too much. It just gets too expensive.

It's true, there are not many skating moms here either with school age kids. Fortunately my family is supportive ,but if I had more than one I don't think I could do it due to exhaustion and finances. I do work, but part-time.

[dooobedooo]

...Speaking for myself, I'm sure that I wouldn't have the time and energy to able to rear a child, work, and skate. I could probably handle 2 at a time, but not all 3.

ITA. The mums I know who skate alongside their kids, are 80 percent housewives, with high-earning spouse; so they tend to skate during the daytime. The remaining 20 percent generally have an occupation such as teaching, where they can work locally, with flexible hours.

[Sonic]

I'm probably going to start a family (well a small one!) in the next couple of years, and hope to return to the ice.

I doubt very much it'll be more than three times a week (and that will be if I'm very lucky), but IMHO it's important for everyone to have some sort of 'escape'. Without going in to too much detail, as far as I am concerned my husband has had enough support from me over the years, I've made plenty of sacrifices, so it'll be his turn to pay for my skating and he can do the babysitting as well!

S xxx

[doubletoe]

I tell myself that I make a better AUNTIE to all the little kids in the world than I would a mommy... :halo: :P :lol:

I figure since I have two stepsons and the elder one is 15 and already very. . . ahem. . . "sociable", I'll probably have step grandkids before too long, LOL! And to them, I'll be as much of a "grandma" as if I were their biological grandma, so that will be nice (and it's so much easier to be a grandmother than a mother!) :)

[CanadianAdult]

I'm an oddity, I have three school age children, work full time, have a spouse with a demanding job and my kids figure skate. They also play hockey :twisted:

I've only ever run into one other adult skater like me she has three kids also and she beats me in competition on a regular basis :lol: but we're the only ones usually who have their own family cheering section.

I've been running through the entry list for Canadian Adult Championships, there is a huge age gap, between the ages of 30 -45. There are some skaters, but discussion at the rink was that was the age gap when skaters take time off to have kids.

[SkatingOnClouds]

Well I'm 47, with a full time job and have a 9 (nearly 10) year old daughter who also skates. If she decided to stop skating, it would make it very difficult for me to keep going. Right now we attend usually 3 sessions a week.

Most of the other adult women skaters I know have re grown up kids, or the younger ones skate too. Those whose kids don't skate bring them to the rink, and they don't get a good skate because they are trying to keep an eye on what the kids are doing or the kids keep wanting their attention.

Skating is a time-consuming, expensive sport for anyone. Having 2 of us doing it makes it doubly expensive.

[teresa]

I'm an adult skater who has children and a busy life. I didn't skate as a child and took up the sport about 7 years ago. I didn't skated seriously until about 4 years ago though. I do find it a challenge to devote myself to skating the way some adult folks do at the rink but I try to do my best. Having a family makes many other things more important to devote myself to. It used to bother me heariing how much others skate and how many lessons they get. I have come to terms with this however and have learned to focus on the time and lessons I do get. Because I don't test or compete, this has been a choice, I'm comfortable with this approach for me. Maybe someday when my life is at a different place I can change my focus. I have heard of adults making the choice not to have another child or any at all because of skating. I've also heard of folks spending more than their comfortable with on lessons and ice time. As much as I love skating these aren't choices I would be willing to make. I guess it's all about choices. Saying all that, I do try my best at this sport. I didn't even know how to stop when I started, =-), and now I've learned some skills off the gold tests for adults. =-)

teresa

Life is about choices and what is right for you.

[Mel On Ice]

well, I'm childless, but not by choice. I know I have more time than some friends who quit skating to raise children, but I also know of skate moms who became skater moms from being at the rink with their kids.

[Raye]

I quit skating when my oldest (now 28) was on the way. I might have come back to skating sooner if any of my kids had taken to it, but I had to wait till my Granddaughter came along to get a skater out of the lot.

Myself, I came back to skating just over three years ago when all my children and all but one of my stepchildren were adults.

[Ice Dancer]

I am childless, and like a few others on here not totally through choice and unlikely to change, but hey that's life! The majority of my skating friends do not have children, one at my rink does and she is desperate for her 2/3 year old daughter to take it up and takes her to the rink and the poor thing gets bored.

I have two teenage step-daughters and they will just have to be enough!!

I must say the fact I am unlikely to have children used to bother me, but since taking up skating I have had something to focus my attention and energy on I just don't really think about it. In fact, I was thinking the other day I would have to give up skating if I fell pregnant!!

[Sessy]

Mom ice danced when I was about 8 and she danced all through my highschool on national level (ballroom dancing) and international. Of course, this meant that I had to do the entire housekeeping from age 11. And we lived in pretty bad neighbourhoods cuz all the money went into dancing even though mom made pretty good bucks (that is, euros, or actually, guldens back then)
I don't think most kids would've put up with that the way I did (but, now I'm 21 and mom's paying my skating so hey it's all fair). I guess that's why there's little moms who skate.

[lovepairs]

I'm the one who started this whole thing with my comment on the other thread about skating moms constantly coming up to me and asking me, which kid is mine skating out there???((*)(_)*(&*^*&%&^$^&(%^&$%^%*(

There is no kid of mine skating out there, except me! :x 8O :D ;)

Here's the thing though...my pairs partner is a single dad with 4 kids. I have none. However, we both skate as much as full-time adults possibly can. We are both totally broke at this point, but don't let the $$$ thing stand in the way of the biggest joy in our lives, which is skating pairs.

On the one hand, I really wanted a family, but couldn't have one, but then I see how having kids has turned a lot of adults that I know into less then functioning human beings. But then again, these people sware by their kids and couldn't imagine life with out them (I don't know what this feels like, other than...I can't imagine living life without my cats. I don't know what else to use as a comparison of what that might feel like.) Okay, for all of the parents out there who are ready to scream at me...Okay...it must feel like "I can't imagine living life without my cats, but a million times worse" (at least, that's what I'm supposed to understand, but I really don't.) I'll go out on a limb here and say that I think that having children is over rated.

Yea, and I can't understand for the life of me why little Sally Sue has to have skating lessons, piano lessons, soccer games, gymnastics, and play the flute??? Why does mom have to turn into a professional chauffer? Can't the kid do one thing and do it really well??? What is up with that???

[Sessy]

The thing about kids is, they don't wanna do 1 thing really well.

I was forced as a kid to do 1 thing really well, that is play the piano for hours and hours every day and I quit when I was like 12 or 13 cuz I just couldn't take the pressure.

Kids need a bit of everything to feel well.

[Rusty Blades]

I'm the one who started this whole thing with my comment on the other thread...

Well actually there were a few comments on that thread (not just your's) that got me thinking (always dangerous) and I realized that a number of women I skate with never had children.

I think when nature or circumstance throw you a curve ball and you end up on a different path than what you expected, one adapts and other things fill the gap. Most of the childless women I know have some kind of "serious career" and many have "fur families" (dogs or cats). I think adult skating probably attracts those who are "focused", self-motivated, and determined - at least those adjectives would apply to the mature skaters I know.

I see how having kids has turned a lot of adults that I know into less then functioning human beings.

LOL! I think most people put the kids first (which I think is good) and "live on the leftovers". Good for them! Much better than the drunks I have known who ignore the kids!

I can't imagine living life without my cats.

Nor me my dogs!

Thanks for the comments LP!

[lovepairs]

Kids need a bit of everything to feel well.

Since when? Isn't this a relatively new phenomenon of kids doing multipal after school activities? Moreover, except for the 1% totally rich in this country, where are all of these parents getting the $$$ for ALL of these activities, and, especially if there is more then one kid in the house?

I remember when the milkman delivered milk, and you had to wait for the rotary phone to come back before dialing the next number. Maybe it's our "instant gratification" culture that is encouraging this shmorgasbourge (sp?) type of experience for kids. I remember sitting down with myself as a kid and reading a Nancy Drew book, which took a while (just doing this one thing) and feeling "well"...it still works!

[lovepairs]

Hi Rusty,

I never claimed to be the "sole" author of this...I just said that my comment opened up this discussion, which it did (to my surprise.)

[LOL! I think most people put the kids first (which I think is good) and "live on the leftovers". Good for them! Much better than the drunks I have known who ignore the kids!]

Don't you think there is a healthy comprimise in your statement above. Where the parents don't have to loose their entire lives to the children, nor have to be drunks and ignore the children. Perhaps, they can put themselves first in many ways and become really good examples for their kids that they do, indeed, have lives. Not ignore the kids, but don't indulge them 100% either, so that the child can grow up knowing that they can be a good parent and not have to loose their lives and or identities when having their own kids?

[jskater49]

:D On the one hand, I really wanted a family, but couldn't have one, but then I see how having kids has turned a lot of adults that I know into less then functioning human beings. But then again, these people sware by their kids and couldn't imagine life with out them

When my husband died, I think the only reason I got out of bed was because I had to take care of my children. I could not let my self drown in the abyss of grief because they needed me


I don't know what this feels like, other than...I can't imagine living life without my cats. I don't know what else to use as a comparison of what that might feel like.) Okay, for all of the parents out there who are ready to scream at me...Okay...it must feel like "I can't imagine living life without my cats, but a million times worse"

Hey I have ten cats. I can't imagine what it would be like to live without them :D

(at least, that's what I'm supposed to understand, but I really don't.) I'll go out on a limb here and say that I think that having children is over rated.

I think being childless is over rated...but isn't that good that we both are happy with our lives the way they are? I think the problem comes when people find what works for them and then thinks that everyone else should live that way too. I know some folks who never should have had children. :??

Yea, and I can't understand for the life of me why little Sally Sue has to have skating lessons, piano lessons, soccer games, gymnastics, and play the flute??? Why does mom have to turn into a professional chauffer? Can't the kid do one thing and do it really well??? What is up with that???

I don't agree with doing everything either, but I try to be careful about judging how other people live. I try to be grateful that my life is working right now.

I did sacrifice my own skating for my daughter's when I couldn't afford both because that's what parents do and I don't regret or resent it at all. Besides dealing with her dad's death when she was nine, we had other struggles when my son was diagnosed with aspergers syndrome and I was focusing a lot of attention on him, I think it saved my daughter that she had skating and a coach who became like another parent for her. It's not just skating, it really saved her and that's why some of the financial sacrifices I made might seem crazy to those on the outside. It was probably cheaper than therapy.

j

[DallasSkater]

I have to agree that I think the best parental model is one that behaviorally demonstrates to children that their life fulfillment is a product of balance of all their identities. I can't begin to tell you how many people and couples land on my couch as a direct result of their failure to do so. In fact, they started with such honorable intention of being dedicated parents with "family first" but found that their intent was lost and another generation was encouraged to live "selflessly" as soon as they hit adulthood with children. Society reinforces that this is a good thing. That being fulfilled as parent is most important. They are but they often notice later that it stops there. There is such a thing as selfishness in a bad way. But many did not understand self in a good way. Selflessness is no better than selfishness. It is just easier for people to rationalize. They rationalized that it was best for their children but learn later that they did not teach their child how to balance at all. They put obstacles in their own lives that was so unintended. Reflectively, the children get the tickle down effect.

For so many the years of child raising are times of unwittingly disengaging their marriage with what seems like a sudden surprise that their marriage is no longer a partnership of emotional intimacy...but rather a partnership of marriage functions. The disengagment took a long time..their insight was sudden. In essence, they become room mates with a common family goal but have difficulty even defining their boundaries and wonder why they seem to have the American dream but only some areas of psychological fulfillment. There are so many divorces that come from this inability to balance and the resentment that is then passed to each other for not being emotionally close. This is no gift to the children. The result is not better than the parent who ignored or under served their parent role.

Time, money and energy toward the kids is certainly needed too. But it is balanced with the time, money and energy needed to fulfill partnership, physical health, mental health, spirituality, financial security, career or at least an area of feeling a contributor at something paid or not that is beyond contributing to the raising of a child, social network, and family roles beyond a parent.

It is a tough balancing act but done correctly is what constitutes fulfillment. People who do this well do not have "perfect" lives...but when life hits in not such a great way..they respond by not crashing other areas of their lives. Because they are balanced, they are able to cope even if other areas have to slip a bit for a while. Those times happen to all of us.

I don't think it is just "skater parents" that fall into this trap unwittingly. Even people without kids can do this but they unbalance another area...including someone who would pursue their passions beyond their financial or emotional means. I do notice that many who have blindly chosen an unbalance will eventually learn ..but it is after the damage is done. Consequence is our best teacher. That is unfortunate.

As far as the kids...I do think they have to be exposed to many different interests to find their likes, talents and passions. There are families successful at balancing and growing balanced kids. They are also not perfect families..but they are healthy. It can be done.

[Isk8NYC]

Joelle,

You are very wise and I totally agree with everything you've said.

[Sonic]

Don't you think there is a healthy comprimise in your statement above. Where the parents don't have to loose their entire lives to the children, nor have to be drunks and ignore the children. Perhaps, they can put themselves first in many ways and become really good examples for their kids that they do, indeed, have lives. Not ignore the kids, but don't indulge them 100% either, so that the child can grow up knowing that they can be a good parent and not have to loose their lives and or identities when having their own kids?

I agree with this statement (though it's probably easy to say when you don't have kids - yet). On the one hand if you have children it's your responsibilty to love and raise them the best you can, and if you're not prepared to give them time, love and attention then why be a parent? On the other hand, kids also have to learn that they can't always have everything they want, and that grown-ups need their time and space too.

As I said before, I hope to keep skating when I have a kid, my husband wants to pursue his hobby. We are both of the opinion that leading by example is a good thing - hopefully our kid will see from us that there's more to life than sitting in front of the TV or playstation....

S xxx

[quarkiki2]

I was raised by one of those mothers DallasSkater so eloquently described -- and there's no way in the world that I'll do that to my kids. Because my mother lived and dies by our successes, we felt an enormous amount of pressure to never disappoint her -- and, as we all know, that just isn't possible.

I think that it is important for Milo to see his parents as people with goals, pursuits, and lives. Not just "the people who drive me around", LOL! I'm never going to be a terribly competitive skater, but I'm also not planning to give up skating on my Syncho team, either (well, when I'm not skating for two). I don't expect my DH to give up his hobbies, either. The simple fact of the matter is that when my kids grow up, I'm still there, DH is still there, and our marriage is still there -- which is how I want it to be.

It is true that DH and I were married for nearly 10 years before starting our family, neither of us are spring chickens, LOL! And I do not regret any of the time we spent together before making the life-long commitment to be parents. I knew that I was not emotionally ready to be a young parent -- I've seen the stress of new marriage, new family ruin couples before and didn't want that. I'm very happy with the way life has turned out for us!

And I'd die without my dogs, too! Nothing is better than a sun-warmed fur hug...

[jskater49]

Time, money and energy toward the kids is certainly needed too. But it is balanced with the time, money and energy needed to fulfill partnership, physical health, mental health, spirituality, financial security, career or at least an area of feeling a contributor at something paid or not that is beyond contributing to the raising of a child, social network, and family roles beyond a parent.




I think what people have to understand is that balance doesn't mean that every day, every year is balanced. When children are younger and more helpless, you do sacrifice 100% - e.g. ..you cannot "balance" your need to sleep with a newborn that needs to be breastfed every few hours. Before the children could cook for themselves my "need" to take a break from cooking was just not going to be met. Now they are older I have said "You are on your own, I don't feel like cooking." But you have take the long term view when it comes to "balance" - you get your turn, but it can take a few years.

Of course the best thing you can do for your children is not neglect your marraige and frankly I think a lot of people who claimed they neglected their spouses for the sake of the children are using their children to mask other issues.

And I've seen a lot of rationalizing that goes "my children are happier if I"m fulfilled" and I think children would rather be fed and read to and talked to than have a "fulfilled" parent. I'm not saying it's good for children to be indulged in their every whim, but the truth is, you give up stuff to be a parent and it's better to go into parenthood knowing that. Personally, if I weighed what I gave up against what I gained, it's worth it, but you really cannot have it all and when push comes to shove, if a choice has to be made between you and the children, you have to choose the kids. And if anything society needs to be more willing to accept and affirm people who say "You know what, I don't want to give that up so I'm not going to have kids" instead of pretending that you can have children without sacrifice.

j

[DallasSkater]

Quarkiki: Yes, that is the unbalance that I mean. Great intent...not the outcome intended.

Jskater: And yes, the balance is very much effected by which "chapter" of life you are currently on. And once it is balanced..it is not just maintained but a re balance that can occur as soon as the next day! But in your example, the parent would have to find the balance of caretaking with decent rest (though certainly not ideal..which is why it is balanced with the needs) and own nutritional needs for that chapter or the breast milk will be effected! good intent..but not outcome is the theme. Healthy vs perfect is what I am getting at. Extreme anything does not yield intended result is my point.

I am not suggesting not balancing the child care and nurturing into the mix. But I am of the opinion that too many people do not understand the stealing from self primarily is not a good idea long term. You spoke of how you were resourceful with this point exactly. You indicated that it was helpful to let your daughter skate and have a coach to assist in her needs beyond skating while balancing the needs of your son. That is a balance that is good. Another could have crashed with ineffective coping because they try to do everything themselves. There response is ...but I"m the MOM! A balanced Mom is resourceful and reasonable with what is a need and what is a want. They really are different things.

I have no doubt that you are a good mom.

Anyway, I don't know why I am going on about this...giggle. Just adding my 2 cents! lol I think I am balancing my "me time" with some surfing!

[herniated]

I'm the one who started this whole thing with my comment on the other thread about skating moms constantly coming up to me and asking me, which kid is mine skating out there???((*)(_)*(&*^*&%&^$^&(%^&$%^%*(

There is no kid of mine skating out there, except me! :x 8O :D ;)

Here's the thing though...my pairs partner is a single dad with 4 kids. I have none. However, we both skate as much as full-time adults possibly can. We are both totally broke at this point, but don't let the $$$ thing stand in the way of the biggest joy in our lives, which is skating pairs.

On the one hand, I really wanted a family, but couldn't have one, but then I see how having kids has turned a lot of adults that I know into less then functioning human beings. But then again, these people sware by their kids and couldn't imagine life with out them (I don't know what this feels like, other than...I can't imagine living life without my cats. I don't know what else to use as a comparison of what that might feel like.) Okay, for all of the parents out there who are ready to scream at me...Okay...it must feel like "I can't imagine living life without my cats, but a million times worse" (at least, that's what I'm supposed to understand, but I really don't.) I'll go out on a limb here and say that I think that having children is over rated.

Yea, and I can't understand for the life of me why little Sally Sue has to have skating lessons, piano lessons, soccer games, gymnastics, and play the flute??? Why does mom have to turn into a professional chauffer? Can't the kid do one thing and do it really well??? What is up with that???

I'm a parent, and I don't want to scream at you. Before I had my kid, I had no idea how I would feel about being a mother. Regarding why do kids have to do everything? I don't overschedule my 8 yr old. And there are plenty of mom's I know who do exactly as you were saying! It's actually not very healthy to overschedule the kids. They have no time to think, relax or have time with thier family. It's good to be bored sometimes. Yes, my kid does more than I did, but he does one activity at a time. Not, soccer, baseball, basketball and cub scouts all at once. Right now he has no activity until spring. Then it will only be baseball 2x/week.

And it is also great for children to see thier parents pursuing thier goals! I helps them to realize that they are not the center of the world and mom/dad have a life too. It's actually comforting. I'm sure some parents would disagree with me too.

[Bunny Hop]

And if anything society needs to be more willing to accept and affirm people who say "You know what, I don't want to give that up so I'm not going to have kids" instead of pretending that you can have children without sacrifice.j

This is very true. Society does, unfortunately, tend to assume that having children is the 'normal' state of affairs, to the extent that those of us who have decided not to do so sometimes get described as selfish. That's an argument I've never quite understood, and provokes a reaction of 'Huh?'. At least I've thought about it and made a reasoned decision that children are not for me, which I don't think is always the case with people who do have them (not making a sweeping generalisation there - I've just known a few people who seem to think that when you get married, you automatically must have children).

Back to the original topic - myself and my husband are also childless adult skaters (in our 30s). I have enough trouble fitting in useful skating as it is (a full time job working office hours is not conducive to progress) - certainly can't imagine trying to add a child to that scenario! Observation at our rink would indicate that the mothers who skate usually have school age children, and are not in full time work themselves, so are able to skate during the day, and their children usually also skate, which no doubt helps. Can't really comment cateogrically on those who are childless, but of those I've encountered, they would probably fit the categories of 'yet to have kids' or 'empty nesters'. So we are unusual in that respect, being skaters of child-bearing age but without kids.

There are lots of reasons why I don't want children - skating isn't one of them in itself, though 'lifestyle' as a whole is certainly a factor, and that also covers time and money issues. Wouldn't call myself a dedicated career woman though. Maybe it's because skaters think more about things before they act!

[taijiya]

I've little to add to the insightful posts in this thread, save to identify myself as another childless (by choice) skater. :bow: And at my rink, I've only noticed skating moms and kids among the group lesson folks. That doesn't mean that some of the other young skaters don't also have parents who skate too, but I have yet to meet any of them!

~~taijiya

[cathrl]

I'm the one who started this whole thing with my comment on the other thread about skating moms constantly coming up to me and asking me, which kid is mine skating out there???((*)(_)*(&*^*&%&^$^&(%^&$%^%*(

There is no kid of mine skating out there, except me! :x 8O :D ;)

Here's the thing though...my pairs partner is a single dad with 4 kids. I have none. However, we both skate as much as full-time adults possibly can. We are both totally broke at this point, but don't let the $$$ thing stand in the way of the biggest joy in our lives, which is skating pairs.

On the one hand, I really wanted a family, but couldn't have one, but then I see how having kids has turned a lot of adults that I know into less then functioning human beings. But then again, these people sware by their kids and couldn't imagine life with out them (I don't know what this feels like, other than...I can't imagine living life without my cats. I don't know what else to use as a comparison of what that might feel like.) Okay, for all of the parents out there who are ready to scream at me...Okay...it must feel like "I can't imagine living life without my cats, but a million times worse" (at least, that's what I'm supposed to understand, but I really don't.) I'll go out on a limb here and say that I think that having children is over rated.

Yea, and I can't understand for the life of me why little Sally Sue has to have skating lessons, piano lessons, soccer games, gymnastics, and play the flute??? Why does mom have to turn into a professional chauffer? Can't the kid do one thing and do it really well??? What is up with that???


The thing is, five year olds don't know what they want to do - they want to try everything. And as a parent, I sure don't know what will be the one thing that they could be good at. Conversely, I'm very loathe to instil in them the idea that you do something for a couple of weeks and drop out the moment you discover it's not instantly attainable. And I'm a real sucker when there's the opportunity for one of mine to do something I'd have loved to try as a child, and there they are all keen to have a go, and it's on a day when they're not actively doing anything else, we're just going home after school.

But I don't think kids have to do vast numbers of "activities" in the formal sense to be trying lots of different things. Someone said that their child was doing "no activities until spring." Now, I'm pretty sure (I hope :) ) that they meant they didn't have timetabled activities, not that they won't be doing anything except stare at the TV for the next couple of months. Reading is an activity. Cycling round the garden is an activity. Building Lego models is an activity. Planting seeds with mum is an activity. Playing catch with big sister is an activity. It's perfectly healthy for a kid to skate as their one formal activity and do lots of other stuff at home. It's not, IMO, healthy if all they do is skate and other activities intended to help them skate. They need time to do unstructured kid stuff too.

I totally agree that if you don't want to have kids there's nothing wrong with that choice, and it should be respected. And I can see how upsetting it must be to be constantly asked about your kids if you wanted them and can't have any. It is a relatively easy ice-breaker to make conversation at a rink, though, especially if someone's not dressed for skating and is watching a session full of children. The people in question are almost certainly just trying to be friendly, and it's hard to talk about the weather when you're in a concrete box with no windows...

What bugs me about the child-free argument in general, and you've just started to edge towards it, is that you're saying that you think having kids is overrated from the position of not having any. It would be like me saying that having cats is overrated, when I've never owned one and have no desire to do so. Whereas all those people who have had kids and think it's great, have previously had the experience of not having kids. If they say their life is better with kids, they know first hand what it was like without them.

[kateskate]

Just wondering as an aside, how old do you consider a childless skater to be. Techincally I guess I am as plenty of people do have kids at 27.

[lovepairs]

DallasSkater,

Thank you for your words of wisdom. A very interesting discussion is taking place.

May I remind everyone that just, because I'm inquisitive about something of which I know nothing, doesn't automatically mean that I'm being judgemental about other people's lives. I didn't mean "having children is over rated" in that no one should have children. I mean, come on...where would our future skaters come from?! LOL! I meant it in the sense that "society" puts a lot of expectations upon everyone to automatically have biological children, which of course becomes an issue for people (men and woman) who are unable to produce children for whatever reason, simply don't want children, and for those who choose to have same-sex relationships. Having children shouldn't be seen as an "automatic given" and neither should deciding not to have children.

[Ice Dancer]

On the one hand, I really wanted a family, but couldn't have one, but then I see how having kids has turned a lot of adults that I know into less then functioning human beings. But then again, these people sware by their kids and couldn't imagine life with out them (I don't know what this feels like, other than...I can't imagine living life without my cats. I don't know what else to use as a comparison of what that might feel like.) Okay, for all of the parents out there who are ready to scream at me...Okay...it must feel like "I can't imagine living life without my cats, but a million times worse" (at least, that's what I'm supposed to understand, but I really don't.)

Yea, and I can't understand for the life of me why little Sally Sue has to have skating lessons, piano lessons, soccer games, gymnastics, and play the flute??? Why does mom have to turn into a professional chauffer? Can't the kid do one thing and do it really well??? What is up with that???

You know in some ways I could not have put this better myself. I am glad that someone can say what I try and can't quite find the words!! I also couldn't live without my fur babies, and that's the way, sadly, it has to be.

For all the ones who have said that kids have to try lots of things, I am glad that a disposable income allows them too! When I was younger we barely had enough for my clarinet lessons, and that was only because they were subed. When I see my step daughters doing all sorts of activities and hardly appreciating them it does make it angry. But that's kids of today I guess.

[jazzpants]

Yes, I love kids... doesn't mean that I want to RAISE them!!! :twisted:

The way I see it for me is... Hubby and I are both professionals with very demandings hours and schedules and deadlines... all that just to be able to live day to day. By the time we're done with our jobs, we're lucky to have any time to have dinner, much less SLEEP!!!

Having kids for us is just not an option. Have pets even is not an option either. If my wish to have down time to recover is considered to be selfish, then I'm selfish... and if some people have a problem with it, THEY can go and contribute to my bringing up my kids and pay our bills!!! :twisted:

As for having kids do many hobbies, that really depends on the kid. If a kid likes a particular hobby, I see nothing wrong with keeping the kid at the hobby that s/he likes. If they want to try different things, that's okay too! No need to force the kid to do a specific hobby.

[flo]

What some kid-less may view as parents being tied down to driving kids around and so on may not be torture for the parents. I don't have kids, and spent one summer helping out someone and taking their little one shopping, to the zoo, to skating lessons, to school..... To my surprise, I actually really enjoyed it.

I also did several activities, piano, choir, girl scouts, sports when I was growing up, and it wasn't money based. I just took advantage of what the school/community had to offer.

[doubletoe]

I'm a parent, and I don't want to scream at you. Before I had my kid, I had no idea how I would feel about being a mother. Regarding why do kids have to do everything? I don't overschedule my 8 yr old. And there are plenty of mom's I know who do exactly as you were saying! It's actually not very healthy to overschedule the kids. They have no time to think, relax or have time with thier family. It's good to be bored sometimes. Yes, my kid does more than I did, but he does one activity at a time. Not, soccer, baseball, basketball and cub scouts all at once. Right now he has no activity until spring. Then it will only be baseball 2x/week.

And it is also great for children to see thier parents pursuing thier goals! I helps them to realize that they are not the center of the world and mom/dad have a life too. It's actually comforting. I'm sure some parents would disagree with me too.

I think the problem comes when parents (more often the mother) live vicariously through their children *instead* of investing a balance of their energy in their own lives. I have a niece who is one of those super kids--acting, dancing, gymnastics, singing, etc. etc.--and she loves being that active. But I can see that my sister-in-law often uses her daughter's activities as an excuse to have no life of her own. I worry about her having a breakdown when my niece leaves home!

[Isk8NYC]

I worry about her having a breakdown when my niece leaves home!One of the biggest concerns in higher ed is that many parents DON'T let go when their child goes off to college. There was a news report earlier this week where a mother spent two weeks on the floor of her son's dorm room because "he was homesick and lonely." We refer to them as "helicopter parents."

[Rusty Blades]

This thread has certainly turned into something much more interesting than I had initially thought!

My sister and I grew up poor and in a rural area so "doing things" what what kids did when they got sent outside to play. Somehow we always managed to find interesting things to do (most of which adults wouldn't have found objectionable!) that were spontaneous rather than organized. I think that was a good thing.

Being poor had it's disadvantages. For me to figure skate (and to buy skates), I had to get a Saturday job 'cause my allowance would only cover one public session each week (and not skates!). That was probably also good, to have to earn my skating money at 14. (Mom thought skating was "a waste".)

My sister and I also grew up (emotionally) abused because Mom didn't really want kids and really shouldn't have had children. I swore to high Heaven that I would never bring a child into a home that was less than loving and nurturing and it is a promise I kept.

I do enjoy my time at the rink with the younger crowd and I do see all kinds of parents and child skaters. I see the young ones that are being pushed and I see the older girls who are there because they love skating. At one rink (where I no longer skate) I had an AWFUL time minding my own business when one set of pushy parents used to bring their daughter (about age 8) to tears on a regular basis. If I thought it would have done any good (and not made it worse for the girl) I would have gone up one side of them and down the other with hobnail boots! 8O

I hope that MOST parents try to give their children opportunities rather than push them into things the children don't want!

[Sessy]

Since when? Isn't this a relatively new phenomenon of kids doing multipal after school activities? Moreover, except for the 1% totally rich in this country, where are all of these parents getting the $$$ for ALL of these activities, and, especially if there is more then one kid in the house?

I remember when the milkman delivered milk, and you had to wait for the rotary phone to come back before dialing the next number. Maybe it's our "instant gratification" culture that is encouraging this shmorgasbourge (sp?) type of experience for kids. I remember sitting down with myself as a kid and reading a Nancy Drew book, which took a while (just doing this one thing) and feeling "well"...it still works!

You totally get me wrong. The question asked was, why can't kids do 1 thing and do it really well. My answer is that a child cannot take the pressure of doing every day for 3 hours - after school and homework - the same thing.
It needs variation, different things to do.

I also remember rotary phones, black and white televisions without a remote and milk in metal bidons that you had to get from a big cistern truck yourself, sold by the litre. Don't go there with me.


As for jsskater49, yes it DOES make a difference to a child to see their parents fulfilled. Why do you think I was housekeeping and cooking and cleaning and doing the laundry and everything? Cuz I saw my mom LIVE through her dancing instead of walking around like a robot with a vacuum cleaner and a day job.
It tells a child there's more to life than 8-5.

[Sonic]

The thing is, five year olds don't know what they want to do - they want to try everything. And as a parent, I sure don't know what will be the one thing that they could be good at. Conversely, I'm very loathe to instil in them the idea that you do something for a couple of weeks and drop out the moment you discover it's not instantly attainable. And I'm a real sucker when there's the opportunity for one of mine to do something I'd have loved to try as a child, and there they are all keen to have a go, and it's on a day when they're not actively doing anything else, we're just going home after school.

But I don't think kids have to do vast numbers of "activities" in the formal sense to be trying lots of different things. Someone said that their child was doing "no activities until spring." Now, I'm pretty sure (I hope :) ) that they meant they didn't have timetabled activities, not that they won't be doing anything except stare at the TV for the next couple of months. Reading is an activity. Cycling round the garden is an activity. Building Lego models is an activity. Planting seeds with mum is an activity. Playing catch with big sister is an activity. It's perfectly healthy for a kid to skate as their one formal activity and do lots of other stuff at home. It's not, IMO, healthy if all they do is skate and other activities intended to help them skate. They need time to do unstructured kid stuff too.


Hear, Hear. And nice to meet a mum who actually parents as opposed to just dumping the kids in front of 'electronic babysitters' and who skates with her kids and makes it a family thing, as opposed to one of those awful skating mothers living her own failed dreams through her offspring (as eloquently described by Doubletoe).

S xxx

[NCSkater02]

We have about 30 adult skaters over the age of 25 in our area.

We do???? Where are they?? How come I'm the only adult that skates in Garner in the afternoon?

I have two daughters, 19 and 24. I started skating when my younger daughter did (oldest doesn't skate) I figured if she could, I could. Besides, I was going to be at the rink anyway, so why not skate instead of sitting in the snack bar? She gave it up when we made her choose between playing hockey and doing Color Guard in Marching Band. We didn't figure she could handle both and the transition to high school.

I have been through some rough times in the last year and a half (marital separation leading to financial difficulty) and the ONLY thing I didn't give up was my skating. My youngest daughter completely understands--matter of fact, she pushed me to go a few times when I didn't really want to go.

[lovepairs]

Rusty Blades brought up something very interesting about unorganized, spontaneous "play." Do kids still do this, or is it all organized activities for them now? I used to have a group of girlfriends growing up and every day after school we'd go out and "play." Sometimes go on mystery adventures, other times play Chinese jump rope, or in the winter we'd build ice mountains! It was incredibly fun, inventive, spontaneous, unstructured and unorganized, but we really were able to use our imaginations and pretend.

I think this is what I like about pair skating so much, at least, a few times a week, I have an opportunity to get on the ice and "play!" All though there is a lot of hard work involved, come to think of it, it feels exactly like I was a kid and we would all go out and play after school! Maybe this is why I like skating so much! :P

[garusha]

I think it can't be the same for everybody. People have different gifts, talents and expectations. Besides, there are things we can't control, like health problems.
In my family, my parents taught my sister and me by example. I grew up in Europe, where it was normal for a woman to work, to have a career, perhaps a hobby and to raise a child. We knew that our mother had to work, not just for money, but for self-fulfillment. And we learned from her and from our father too.
I always wanted to have my own children, although I've been career-oriented too. So I never managed to get pregnant, because I got married late. However, I became a surrogate mother for my niece because my sister got married very young, and at that time, she wasn't interested in taking care of the baby. Again I tried to teach my niece everything I could do myself; I even got a part-time job as an elementary school teacher to be with her. Then my sister passed away, I got married and moved to the US. My niece and I are still very close, although we live in different countries. I took her to a rink a couple of times when I was visiting my family. She kind of liked it, and I wish she would start taking lessons, just like me, but you can't tell a teenager what to do. It's up to her, and, perhaps, one day, it will happen.
So just like some of you, ladies, I'm trying to think positive encouraging myself with the fact that I wouldn't be able to spend so much time skating if I had little children to raise. But I repeat: it can't be the same for everybody.

[jazzpants]

I also remember rotary phones, black and white televisions without a remote and milk in metal bidons that you had to get from a big cistern truck yourself, sold by the litre. Don't go there with me.Rotary Phone :twisted: :lol:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/45/188605816_d441e2f1e6.jpg

Black and White TV without remote (note the channel selector dial on the TV!!!) :lol:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/156/423821590_3ad903bbb9.jpg

And milk in metal bidon... :P

http://www.strausfamilycreamery.com/data/fe/Image/bottles%20in%20basket%20small.jpg

(I'm pretty sure lovepairs is getting kick out of seeing these items again!!!) :lol:

[Rusty Blades]

Ok, I am not saying I am "old" but I remember:

- when not everybody had a phone
- when an Operator answered and asked "Number please?"
- when the Operator knew everything that was going on in the community
- when the milk was delivered in a horse drawn wagon
- when only rich people had a television (and they were B&W)
- when trains were pulled by steam engines
- when the U.S. figure skating team was killed in a plane crash (1961?)
- when most radios were in the living room and were the size of a small fridge
- when radios had vacuum tubes and took 5 minutes to warm up
- before "The Pill"
- when Rock & Roll was "the devils music"
- when having a car was more rare than common
- when NOBODY had air conditioning
- when the rink had an ammonia refrigeration plant and struggled to hold ice when the temp got close to freezing
- when "custom" boots were hand-made specifically for you by a little old shoemaker
- when the men came home from Korea
- when gathering around the radio Sunday night was THE entertainment (I wasn't allowed to listen Saturday night because the Groucho Marx was too smutty!)

Now, what were we talking about? LOL!

[Sessy]

edit double

[Sessy]

That's FUNNY! That TV looks IDENTICAL to the one we had! I remember when I was little, I didn't have enough strength in my hands to turn the rotating buttons with which you could select between something like 8 or 12 channels (of which a few were just blank noise) and then as I grew up, I could turn the buttons by myself.

Actually I was talking about these bidons:
http://perso.orange.fr/atelierdemarie/METAL%20IMAGES%20ENTIERES%20JPG%20%20et%20GIF/Bidon%20moyen%20papillon%20.jpg

Also a loud "check" on these:
Ok, I am not saying I am "old" but I remember:
- when not everybody had a phone
- when an Operator answered and asked "Number please?"
- when trains were pulled by steam engines
- before "The Pill"
- when Rock & Roll was "the devils music"
- when having a car was more rare than common
- when NOBODY had air conditioning

Helps to have been born in the soviet Union though where this was normal till the 80's. :lol:
(actually, if the soviet union would've had a pill made available to the populaiton, I wouldn't have existed).

And by the way, in the Netherlands and Germany and stuff nobody's got airco either. We just suffer in summer. :lol: Much more environment friendly. Also dunno about your kids, but our kids do play outside. Unless they live in the big cities, where it's just not safe (and I'm not talking about cars).

[cathrl]

Ok, I am not saying I am "old" but I remember:

- when NOBODY had air conditioning

Now, what were we talking about? LOL!

I've never seen a house with air conditioning. (Though the office where I work has it.)

No, really.

The last forum I said this on didn't believe it, either. But there are more British people on this one :)

[cathrl]

One of the biggest concerns in higher ed is that many parents DON'T let go when their child goes off to college. There was a news report earlier this week where a mother spent two weeks on the floor of her son's dorm room because "he was homesick and lonely." We refer to them as "helicopter parents."

Always hovering? :lol:

I laugh, but I know people like this, who still do more for their late-teenage kids (and older, even into their twenties) than I do for my seven year old. I really don't think they're doing their kids any favours by tidying their rooms and sorting out their washing for them. It must be a hideous shock for kids brought up like this to go away to college, and suddenly realise that washing dishes doesn't do itself and clean clothes don't magically appear in drawers.

[lovepairs]

You ladies are hilarious! Jazz, I loved seeing those pictures, again!!!

Remember when appliances didn't talk to you, and tell you what to do, and how to manage your life, and what to wear in the morning.

I also like to watch the early "special effects" in movies, too. Like Godzilla, ect...so, simple and direct compared to computerized animation. Boy, have things changed!

I remember my grandfather telling me about how the ice man would deliver the ice for the refrigerator, and then he said "Boy, have things changed!!!"

[Mrs Redboots]

I've never seen a house with air conditioning. (Though the office where I work has it.)I have seen one, and stayed in it, too, but then, that was in the USA! I certainly haven't seen one in this country.

I laugh, but I know people like this, who still do more for their late-teenage kids (and older, even into their twenties) than I do for my seven year old. I really don't think they're doing their kids any favours by tidying their rooms and sorting out their washing for them. It must be a hideous shock for kids brought up like this to go away to college, and suddenly realise that washing dishes doesn't do itself and clean clothes don't magically appear in drawers.
I remember my daughter coming home from school in Year 7, when they did a bit of Food Technology, or whatever it's called nowadays, and saying, "Honestly, Mummy, I don't think some of the girls in my class know where the kitchen in their homes is, never mind what it's used for!

She could probably have been a good swimmer, only I wasn't the kind of Mum to help her join a club and get up at 5:00 am for training and all that. My brother & his ex-wife, on the other hand, have pushed their daughter to work at her dressage, to the point where she is now on the national team.

Who knows which of us was right - I don't. I didn't feel I could take that sort of decision for my daughter, but some parents do and will take it for theirs.

[Rusty Blades]

I just barely remember the ice man delivering big block of ice for the icebox and a few of my friends who lived in houses without electricity or indoor plumbing. Dad built our small house in 1950 so it had all the modern conveniences :) but it was still before school buses so we walked 1.5 miles to and from school (yea, up hill both ways, no boots, and all that stuff to!). The walk to school as a real "social experience". Being the farthest out, my sister and I would start out and the group would get bigger with every house and farm we passed. Strange how the kids who "had nothing" all did so well for themselves and developed into well-adjusted and productive adults....

[kateskate]

I've never seen a house with air conditioning. (Though the office where I work has it.)

No, really.

The last forum I said this on didn't believe it, either. But there are more British people on this one :)

Neither have I. And I know a lot of offices that don't have it either.

[Sessy]

I've never seen a house with air conditioning. (Though the office where I work has it.)

No, really.

The last forum I said this on didn't believe it, either. But there are more British people on this one :)

I believe you, I've never seen a home with it either, unless you count those rotating propellor thingies.

[mtskater82]

I prefer 'child-free' to 'childless.' I cannot imagine having kids and also skating seriously; but then again I'm single and not even 25 yet. Most of my weekdays it's: skate, workout, go to work, come home and sleep...then do it all again the next day. I barely have time to feed myself, let alone a family! (Thank goodness for lean cuisine)! Raising children would be a big sacrifice... kudos to all you moms out there who manage to fit it all in!

[cathrl]

She could probably have been a good swimmer, only I wasn't the kind of Mum to help her join a club and get up at 5:00 am for training and all that. My brother & his ex-wife, on the other hand, have pushed their daughter to work at her dressage, to the point where she is now on the national team.

Who knows which of us was right - I don't. I didn't feel I could take that sort of decision for my daughter, but some parents do and will take it for theirs.

No, no, I didn't mean parents who help their kids with their achievements even after they hit teenage and older. I meant parents who sort their almost-adult kids' dirty washing, sort their kids' clean washing, cook every meal, clear away all the plates, drive them to and from everywhere they want to go, run their bank accounts, write their job applications, take all responsibility for them being where they're supposed to be at the right time...parents who won't actually let their kids grow up, and continue to do everything for them just as they did when they were three. If what they're doing is the donkey work while said kid is training and growing up to a high level of excellence in their sport, that's different to doing everything for someone. I don't believe it's possible to get that good at anything if you're being led by the nose rather than motivating yourself. Though it's certainly easier if you have a lot of home support.

[Sessy]

Haha funny. I actually write some of my mother's job applications. :twisted:
(My Dutch is better than hers)

[2salch0w]

I have two kids and sometimes I have to bring them to practice. They don't really like skating much so they aren't good enough to join on a freestyle (and they wouldn't want to). So they sit and watch, sometimes for 2.5 hours, along w/ the skating moms and dads. It is a funny role reversal to see - my kids and the parents in the stands ... me and the little girls on the ice.

Sometimes I feel bad about dragging them along, but I have also promised myself that I'd never be that parent that just gives up my whole life to live vicariously through my kids. They have activities/hobbies, too, and I support them in those. But we don't go overboard - two things each is plenty to make a commitment to. Really, 1 thing in terms of serious commitment, then a bunch of dabbling if they enjoy a lot of things. I believe that by being an active, well-rounded person I am setting the best example for my kids. And I often tell parents of little skaters that they need to get the skates on and get out there, and I've even succeeded in a few cases.

Tim

[3skatekiddos]

No, no, I didn't mean parents who help their kids with their achievements even after they hit teenage and older. I meant parents who sort their almost-adult kids' dirty washing, sort their kids' clean washing, cook every meal, clear away all the plates, drive them to and from everywhere they want to go, run their bank accounts, write their job applications, take all responsibility for them being where they're supposed to be at the right time...parents who won't actually let their kids grow up, and continue to do everything for them just as they did when they were three. If what they're doing is the donkey work while said kid is training and growing up to a high level of excellence in their sport, that's different to doing everything for someone. I don't believe it's possible to get that good at anything if you're being led by the nose rather than motivating yourself. Though it's certainly easier if you have a lot of home support.

I am MARRIED to one of those kids and it isn't pretty :( Trust me, those moms ( and it is the moms ) aren't doing the kids any favours. I spend a lot of time trying to undo years of "helplessness" and it's a losing battle.
Good thing I'm not bitter Mmmmm ? :frus:

[sk8_4fun]

slightly off thread but I noticed that alot of my skating friends adore cats. It just made me wonder if there are higher percentages of cat lovers among the skating fraternity?

[Rusty Blades]

slightly off thread but I noticed that alot of my skating friends adore cats. It just made me wonder if there are higher percentages of cat lovers among the skating fraternity?

I thought there was but after changing rinks I find myself exclusively among the canine set. Lawrdy even my costume maker is a dog person!

Dianne
(Who's fur baby is in doggie jail this week while Ma skates in another city - BAD MAMA!!!)

[Bunny Hop]

I've never seen a house with air conditioning. (Though the office where I work has it.)

No, really.

The last forum I said this on didn't believe it, either. But there are more British people on this one :)

Well, I'm originally from Australia, and believe it or not, most homes there don't have air conditioning either - and that's a much warmer country! When I was a kid, one of my friends lived in a house where they had an air conditioner in one room - but that's the only house there I've ever been in with air con, and they only put it on for half an hour at a time because of the cost of the electricity to run it.

[lovepairs]

I have two cats: Cakie and Muffin!

[Terri C]

I have two cats: Cakie and Muffin!

lovepairs, I too have a cat named Muffin.
Dad and I were just talking about home and kitchen appliances. He swears that the crock pot we have at home was bought right after he and Mom (God rest her soul) married and that was in February of 1964. I've tried to tell him that crock pots were not in existence then.

[lovepairs]

My Muffin is a "Smoked Tabby." She has a white down coat underneath and then a black coat on top of that, so in one light she looks totally black, but if she's sitting in the sun she looks brown. The neat thing is that her coat is as such that it looks like she is wearing three strings of black pearls around her neck.

Do I sound like one of those adoring parents who thinks their baby is the cuttest thing on earth, but really nobody else does??? LOL!!! Most parents seemed to be hypnotized by their kids...I'm totally hypnotized by my cats!

[Sessy]

Sometimes I feel bad about dragging them along, but I have also promised myself that I'd never be that parent that just gives up my whole life to live vicariously through my kids. They have activities/hobbies, too, and I support them in those. But we don't go overboard - two things each is plenty to make a commitment to. Really, 1 thing in terms of serious commitment, then a bunch of dabbling if they enjoy a lot of things. I believe that by being an active, well-rounded person I am setting the best example for my kids. And I often tell parents of little skaters that they need to get the skates on and get out there, and I've even succeeded in a few cases.

Tim

When mom used to skate, she'd bring me along too. I also wasn't good enough to join in but I had inline skates that I skated around the rink on. Was good physical exercise for me.

[Sessy]

Do I sound like one of those adoring parents who thinks their baby is the cuttest thing on earth, but really nobody else does??? LOL!!! Most parents seemed to be hypnotized by their kids...I'm totally hypnotized by my cats!

I'm hypnotized by one of our cats. We found her on the street, I was going to the doctor and mom went like Ohhh that's such a cute cat! So she immediately came over. She was a stray, and pregnant, too, with a broken rib. For the next few days, we went there to feed her and then took her home.

She's eaten one of my hamsters. She learned to open the cage. Then, I started putting a ribbon around the cage so she couldnt' open the door. So she watched me feed the hamster, watched me undo the ribbon and then... SHE went and undid the ribbon! Seriously the cat is like an Einstein or whatever.

She started fighting with our other cats originally. We told her if she'd continue, we'd kick her out onto the street. The fighting stopped right awya.

[Mrs Redboots]

Well, I'm originally from Australia, and believe it or not, most homes there don't have air conditioning either - and that's a much warmer country! When I was a kid, one of my friends lived in a house where they had an air conditioner in one room - but that's the only house there I've ever been in with air con, and they only put it on for half an hour at a time because of the cost of the electricity to run it.

Our car has air-conditioning now, and I'm very grateful for it - it means I can have the heating on without wanting to throw up after a couple of minutes! I have never been able to tolerate the smell of hot engine! And in the summer one doesn't melt or be overcome by fumes from other cars. But it does increase petrol consumption a bit.

[skaternum]

We do???? Where are they?? How come I'm the only adult that skates in Garner in the afternoon?Because it's Garner. And the afternoon. ?? :)

There are 15 adult skaters on our club's roster, plus a few others in the Raleigh area who aren't club members. The club in Hillsborough has at least that many, if not more, adult skaters. It's just that we're all spread out over the 6 rinks in the area. Many adults with traditional job hours have to skate in the mornings, before work. When you get us all together, we're quite a large group (relatively speaking). At Central Carolina a couple of years ago, we had enough local adults to form 2 teams of 5 each for the team event. A couple of years before that, we had 3 teams at Dogwood. The judges couldn't believe we had enough adults to pull that off. One of my favorite pics from Peach Classic 2005 is a big ol' group shot of all the North Carolina skaters!

[skatingatty]

Hello! Yes, there are a significant no. of adult skaters in the triangle area of NC, but we all skate at different rinks. I never skate at the Garner rink because it's too far from my home and workplace. Now, I usually skate in the mid-morning at Cary Ice House and some afternoon public sessions at the Reczone. Once in a while, I go to the Triangle Sportsplex and the Factory. Here are some pics of many of the NC skaters from the 2005 Peach Classic: photos.yahoo.com/judytseng2001

Getting back to the original topic, count me in as a childless adult skater, but I'm hoping to change that, with my biological clock tickin' away:lol: . My husband has agreed that after the baby, I will still get out of the house at least twice per week to skate. I'd like to keep skating even with kids, but I know that time and cost will be a consideration-- not to mention being too sleepy to even want to get out on the ice and spin. I've already debated whether to take lessons again and try to pass the Adult Gold Moves test, and it doesn't seem worth it when the cost of trying to pass the test is the equivalent of buying a crib and stroller or a month of daycare. If my future child (to be named "Tiffany," "Michelle," or "Sasha"... j/k) shows promise as a skating prodigy, it would only make sense for me to not spend much on my own skating and make way for the 'lil Olympic wannabe.

[Sessy]

In Russia, despite popular images of snowy landscapes, temperatures go well above a human's normal body temperature as well - in summer. My grandma's working building is always cold though, even in summer. They've got walls - solid stone, not brick, no really, STONE, about a metre thick (over a yard). Seriously, it's always cold there. Even in summer when everybody's dying from the heat they're wearing pullovers inside.
In winter it's always warm in there. It's a really, really old building. Lenin used to give his speeches from the balcony there and stuff. They knew how to build in the old days!

[cathrl]

I've already debated whether to take lessons again and try to pass the Adult Gold Moves test, and it doesn't seem worth it when the cost of trying to pass the test is the equivalent of buying a crib and stroller or a month of daycare. If my future child (to be named "Tiffany," "Michelle," or "Sasha"... j/k) shows promise as a skating prodigy, it would only make sense for me to not spend much on my own skating and make way for the 'lil Olympic wannabe.

Then again, it would also make sense for your child to know that her mum knows what it's like to persevere, make sacrifices, and work hard to achieve the maximum she's capable of :)

I'm SO not the perfect skating mum. I'm forever telling my daughter what didn't look as good as the rest the last time she did her program, and that if she wants it to get better she has to practice. Sometimes I hear myself say something and I think "argh - that sounded AWFUL" and I have to tell her what I really meant, because it's so easy to only comment on what went wrong. But at least she gets to do the same to me. And does. :) I sometimes overhear what non-skating mums say to their children, and I'm surprised the kids don't respond "well, if it's that easy, you get out here and do it!"

I guess maybe the real question isn't "why are so many skaters childless?" it's "why do so many skating parents not become skaters?" I mean, many of the adult skaters I know, and I definitely include myself in this, aren't the super-fit sporty types who were brilliant at games at school. Quite the opposite. Why are we attracted to skate ourselves, when all those other parents aren't?

[jskater49]

I'm SO not the perfect skating mum. I'm forever telling my daughter what didn't look as good as the rest the last time she did her program, and that if she wants it to get better she has to practice. Sometimes I hear myself say something and I think "argh - that sounded AWFUL" and I have to tell her what I really meant, because it's so easy to only comment on what went wrong. But at least she gets to do the same to me. And does. :) I sometimes overhear what non-skating mums say to their children, and I'm surprised the kids don't respond "well, if it's that easy, you get out here and do it!"

I don't say ANYTHING to my daughter after a competition other than "How do you feel about it" She does not take criticism well from her mom (and really that's not my job, that's what the coach gets the big bucks for) and if I try to tell her something positive it's "NO IT WASN"T GOOD-- YOU DON"T KNOW ANYTHING" She's an emotional teenager. :roll:

She will advise me (in fact she coached me this weekend) but I have to say I'm much better at taking criticism from her than she is from me. ;)

j

[flutzilla1]

Well, I'm originally from Australia, and believe it or not, most homes there don't have air conditioning either - and that's a much warmer country! When I was a kid, one of my friends lived in a house where they had an air conditioner in one room - but that's the only house there I've ever been in with air con, and they only put it on for half an hour at a time because of the cost of the electricity to run it.

During the summer when I was living in Sydney, many of the younger skaters always looked so tired when they came to the rink. I found out later it was because most of their families did not have any air conditioners in their houses and it was so hot they had a lot of trouble falling asleep at night. We were lucky when we lived there -- we had both central air and a washer/dryer in the apartment.

[Sonic]

I guess maybe the real question isn't "why are so many skaters childless?" it's "why do so many skating parents not become skaters?" I mean, many of the adult skaters I know, and I definitely include myself in this, aren't the super-fit sporty types who were brilliant at games at school. Quite the opposite. Why are we attracted to skate ourselves, when all those other parents aren't?

Maybe they consider themselves 'too old'? Though that would seem surprising in the cases of rinks where there are a fair number of adult skaters. Maybe it's because they can't afford for their kids to skate and to skate themselves? In a number of cases though, I get the feeling it's 'skating-mother-syndrome' : trying to live their own failed dreams through their kids?

S xxx

[cathrl]

I don't say ANYTHING to my daughter after a competition other than "How do you feel about it" She does not take criticism well from her mom (and really that's not my job, that's what the coach gets the big bucks for) and if I try to tell her something positive it's "NO IT WASN"T GOOD-- YOU DON"T KNOW ANYTHING" She's an emotional teenager. :roll:

She will advise me (in fact she coached me this weekend) but I have to say I'm much better at taking criticism from her than she is from me. ;)

j

Oh heck, yes, I didn't mean competition, only program runthroughs when the coach isn't there to comment.

It's more than my life's worth to say anything after she comes off the ice in a competition, unless she's grinning from ear to ear, then "Well done!" is usually pretty safe :D

[Rob Dean]

Maybe they consider themselves 'too old'? Though that would seem surprising in the cases of rinks where there are a fair number of adult skaters. Maybe it's because they can't afford for their kids to skate and to skate themselves? In a number of cases though, I get the feeling it's 'skating-mother-syndrome' : trying to live their own failed dreams through their kids?

S xxx

It varies a lot, rink by rink. I skate at two regularly these days. At one, there are quite a few "skating families", including other skating fathers, there are evening freestyle sessions set up to support that, and morning "adult only" sessions for the even more mature adult crowd. At the other, where the serious skaters train, there are no designated adult sessions, and the low freestyles in the afternoon are often pretty hairy. Even there, there are a few mother/child groups taking lessons, plus me and my son. I don't think I've seen another skater father at that rink.

I've heard most of the above explanations at one time or another. Obviously nobody admits to skating mother syndrome, though I've seen it. It's hard for us to believe, but I suppose there are people who just wouldn't enjoy skating. :??

Rob

[twokidsskatemom]

Maybe they consider themselves 'too old'? Though that would seem surprising in the cases of rinks where there are a fair number of adult skaters. Maybe it's because they can't afford for their kids to skate and to skate themselves? In a number of cases though, I get the feeling it's 'skating-mother-syndrome' : trying to live their own failed dreams through their kids?

S xxx

For us, its more that I cant afford it with two kids that skate.I keep trying to get them to stop and do something else, so far its not working:) This sport is toooooooo expensive to do it if they dont want to, and I have no dreams but for them to be happy.

[jazzpants]

Maybe they consider themselves 'too old'? Though that would seem surprising in the cases of rinks where there are a fair number of adult skaters. Maybe it's because they can't afford for their kids to skate and to skate themselves? In a number of cases though, I get the feeling it's 'skating-mother-syndrome' : trying to live their own failed dreams through their kids?One answer I got from a skating mom is that she feels she needs to be "always healthy" for the kids so she can take care of them. If Mom has a sprain ankle, she feels it's only a matter of time the home and family will be chaos. Money is not that much of an issue for her... her kids goes

But yes, the typical answer I got was "I'm too old!!!" Of course, those same moms are the ones I ask how old they are...and as of now, in about half the cases, the moms are not that much older than me and most of them are as old as our competitive adult figure skaters on FS.

[3skatekiddos]

I second ( or third or fourth ) the "It's too expensive for us all to skate " line. I may take some adult skating in the fall but what if I like it ? Like REALLY like it ? And then there are THREE of us skating ! Ouch.
I think I'll see if DS takes to it. If not, it's time for MEEEEEEEEEE :)

[twokidsskatemom]

I second ( or third or fourth ) the "It's too expensive for us all to skate " line. I may take some adult skating in the fall but what if I like it ? Like REALLY like it ? And then there are THREE of us skating ! Ouch.
I think I'll see if DS takes to it. If not, it's time for MEEEEEEEEEE :)
I have skates, I dont think Im too old at 44, but there is no way we all could skate with lessons ect. We already spend too much!!!Two skaters in the family at the rate my kids skate is spendy. If at some point they slow down, then I can skate too !!

[Mercedeslove]

I've seen to notice something with the adult skaters at my rink with children vs the ones without.

The ones without seem more dedicated to the sport and more serious about their skating and the stuff that goes with it.

The ones with kids seem to be distracted by the kids and spend less time on the ice and don't move up as fast. I had some in my class who had kids who were also skating. They ended up quitting because their kid was moving up faster then them.

They seemed to love skating but because the kids were moving up and it was costing more they dropped out. I think it's sad that they had to sacrifice something like that for their kids. I saw one of the mothers the other day at open skate and she was saying how she missed it. My thought was then get back into it. Take the kid out of his whatever other sport they do and put that money to your happiness. Your life shouldn't stop because your a mother.

It's okay to put yourself and your needs/wants ahead of your children. You are human and you worked for it.

[twokidsskatemom]

I've seen to notice something with the adult skaters at my rink with children vs the ones without.

The ones without seem more dedicated to the sport and more serious about their skating and the stuff that goes with it.

The ones with kids seem to be distracted by the kids and spend less time on the ice and don't move up as fast. I had some in my class who had kids who were also skating. They ended up quitting because their kid was moving up faster then them.

They seemed to love skating but because the kids were moving up and it was costing more they dropped out. I think it's sad that they had to sacrifice something like that for their kids. I saw one of the mothers the other day at open skate and she was saying how she missed it. My thought was then get back into it. Take the kid out of his whatever other sport they do and put that money to your happiness. Your life shouldn't stop because your a mother.

It's okay to put yourself and your needs/wants ahead of your children. You are human and you worked for it.
I dont think anyone here thinks your life should stop because you are a mother. But it is different, and we do support the kids. We do give up things so they can have.You do sacifice when you are a parent.If you dont want to change your lifetstyle and adjust, then having kids is something you shouldnt do.Nothing wrong with not having kids.

[Mercedeslove]

I dont think anyone here thinks your life should stop because you are a mother. But it is different, and we do support the kids. We do give up things so they can have.You do sacifice when you are a parent.If you dont want to change your lifetstyle and adjust, then having kids is something you shouldnt do.Nothing wrong with not having kids.


It seems rather I don't know not worth it. I mean is it that hard to say no to your child when they want something, because you want something? It's definitely not selfish...not even close. YOU do have the right to treat yourself and they do have to learn the world doesn't revolve around them.

[jskater49]

My thought was then get back into it. Take the kid out of his whatever other sport they do and put that money to your happiness. Your life shouldn't stop because your a mother.

It's okay to put yourself and your needs/wants ahead of your children. You are human and you worked for it.

Um, I was one of those mothers who couldn't afford to pay for both my and my daughter's skating.

#1 My life did not stop because I quit skating. Anyone who thinks their life is over -child or adult- because they can't skate has a serious problem.

#2 I just think it would be the height of selfish indulgence to tell my child who got so much benefit out of skating to quit so I could skate. I frankly would have no respect for anyone who did that.

I could quit because I could take the long view, I knew I could get back into it, and I did not resent it, it wasn't sad - please don't feel sorry on my account, it was just life.

What makes me sad is that not only is it considered okay nowadays to put yourself ahead of your children, but you are some kind of as sad pathetic object of pity if you don't.

Sacrifice really is not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing when you turn yourself into some kind of a victim because of it. Trust me. I'm nobody's victim.

J

[twokidsskatemom]

Um, I was one of those mothers who couldn't afford to pay for both my and my daughter's skating.

#1 My life did not stop because I quit skating. Anyone who thinks their life is over -child or adult- because they can't skate has a serious problem.

#2 I just think it would be the height of selfish indulgence to tell my child who got so much benefit out of skating to quit so I could skate. I frankly would have no respect for anyone who did that.

I could quit because I could take the long view, I knew I could get back into it, and I did not resent it, it wasn't sad - please don't feel sorry on my account, it was just life.

What makes me sad is that not only is it considered okay nowadays to put yourself ahead of your children, but you are some kind of as sad pathetic object of pity if you don't.

Sacrifice really is not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing when you turn yourself into some kind of a victim because of it. Trust me. I'm nobody's victim.


J

You said it so much better than me :)
My kids do know the world isnt about them.But why would I tell my kids no, you cant get new skates, or go to regionals, or anything else to do with skating so I can put MYSELF first? Its not about me, its about me raising my kids. I did live my life before them and will after they are out of the house. I ENJOY them they way they are.The world doesnt revolved around them but its isnt about ME either.... why would I have two kids if I didnt think I had to give up something?
Im not a martyer, but I dont want to be a parent that makes their own needs more than their childs. Its always about compromise !Just like marriage

[Mercedeslove]

I don't know, I think parents deserve "goodies" just as much as thier kids. I don't think there is anything wrong with parents you now and then put their needs/wants (whatever you call it) ahead of their kids. Once in a while won't kill anyone and I'm such is a must need boost of some kind. I tip my hat off to the parents who do that. They aren't afraid to say no to their kid and they aren't afraid to say yes to themselves and some themselves. They worked for it so why the heck not.

You only live once and life is only so long. Enjoy it why it lasts and remember you count too, you are a person saying yes won't kill anyone and you might be really glad you did.

[twokidsskatemom]

I don't know, I think parents deserve "goodies" just as much as thier kids. I don't think there is anything wrong with parents you now and then put their needs/wants (whatever you call it) ahead of their kids. Once in a while won't kill anyone and I'm such is a must need boost of some kind. I tip my hat off to the parents who do that. They aren't afraid to say no to their kid and they aren't afraid to say yes to themselves and some themselves. They worked for it so why the heck not.

You only live once and life is only so long. Enjoy it why it lasts and remember you count too, you are a person saying yes won't kill anyone and you might be really glad you did.
Who said we dont say No to our kids? I dont give them everything. They make choices everyday ie do they want to go out to dinner or skate?Only have so much money .

My needs are met, but No im not going to tell my kids they cant skate so I can.Again, Its not all about me now. Its about my whole FAMILY:) I had 35 years to put me first

[b viswanathan]

I don't have children and my very athletic sister and BIL just had twin boys six months ago. It'll be interesting to see how they choose to support their sons' athletic pursuits, and whether or not they'll have to compromise their own interests/goals in providing for them (she's an incredibly gifted tennis player and natural athlete; he's a dedicated cyclist). I hope the whole family can find ways to enjoy sports/athletics together - it would be a shame if anyone had to give up completely their favorite pursuits, even in the interest of wholly supporting the boys.

I think it's wonderful when families do sports together and keep healthy, athletic, and united in their lifestyles. It can also balance out what can be a too competitive athletic world out there - and give kids a sense of where their sports can lead them in the long run. I've benefited from the model of having a very active mother; and I would hope my sister's kids will have the same benefit from their mom (and dad, of course).

That said, I've already committed to giving them skating lessons as soon as they're ready. Up here, in skating-crazy MA, that seems to be around age 3.5 or 4. The boys are going to get both hockey and figure skating lessons, too - they get to pick eventually - and I plan to sponsor their skating as much as I possibly can. That's the best part of being an aunt, I think - all the fun, some of the expense, but none of the fallout. Yeah!

[Sessy]

I don't think I'd ever be able to quit. I'd go to public sessions (you know, those weekend ones when everybody can come, even with sledges instead of skates and those sessions are very cheap) and not take lessons but I'd sure keep skating! The only thing I can imagine trading figure skating for is either ballroom dancing again or ballet, I just don't have an interest in any other sport and without sport, given my physical condition, I'd not be able to function at all, sport is all that keeps me living.

[jskater49]

I don't know, I think parents deserve "goodies" just as much as thier kids. I don't think there is anything wrong with parents you now and then put their needs/wants (whatever you call it) ahead of their kids. Once in a while won't kill anyone and I'm such is a must need boost of some kind. I tip my hat off to the parents who do that. They aren't afraid to say no to their kid and they aren't afraid to say yes to themselves and some themselves. They worked for it so why the heck not.

You only live once and life is only so long. Enjoy it why it lasts and remember you count too, you are a person saying yes won't kill anyone and you might be really glad you did.

I was going to write a sarcastic answer, because you sound a little silly lecturing about something I think you don't understand, and then I erased it and am going to try to gently help you understand that not all parents are deprived miserable unhappy people who never say no to their children.I don't know where you get the idea that we are not enjoying life. We are not talking about going without food so our kids can have lamborghini

Yes, there are people who spoil their children. A lot of times what I notice about people who indulge their children - they are people who have not said no to themselves and pretty much ignore their kids and then buy them a lot of stuff to make up for it.

And then there are the parents (and women tend to be more guilty about this) who sacrifice and then resent it and won't shut up about it and play the martyr and hold it over their kids heads. I agree that those people are very annoying. I don't feel sorry for them because I think they are just as self-centered as parents who neglect their children.

But you know most of us do what we have to do, make the sacrifices willingly and most of the time it doesn't even seem like a sacrifice because rewards are worth much more than whatever we gave up. (Okay I confess I have been guilty of saying "I slaved over this dinner, the least you can do is take your dishes to the dishwasher!" ;)


BTW, my daughter who thinks the world revolves around her because I never ever ever in my life ever said no to her is giving up two weeks of her summer to help clean up from Hurrricane Katrina in Louisiana.

(Okay so I couldn't resist a little sarcasm)

j

[jskater49]

I don't think I'd ever be able to quit. I'd go to public sessions (you know, those weekend ones when everybody can come, even with sledges instead of skates and those sessions are very cheap) and not take lessons but I'd sure keep skating!.

I tried that. I found that for me, skating only once a week and witbuying someone's missed lesson once in awhile, I just could not progress and it was frustrating. For me, it was better to just stop than subject myself to the frustration. I'm the kind of person that if I do somethng, I put a lot into it. Now that I skate more and have regular lessons I enjoy it more. But that's just me.

j

[b viswanathan]

I think Mercedes made a good point, and (s)he put it very pleasantly. She wasn't saying anyone is a martyr; and she wasn't putting down sacrifices for children per se. She was just saying parents should treat themselves well, too. I totally agree, and it's what I was trying to get across, too.

It's not a zero sum game. Moreover, I think over-reacting to people who say you should enjoy your life as a parent - and dismissing them as "not understanding what it's like to be a parent" - is missing the point. The point is, you don't put your own health/well-being/athletic joys *ahead* of your child(ren)'s. But you don't eliminate it either. You find ways to do both.

If skating is too expensive, there is always walking, running, shooting hoops, working out to a DVD, doing yoga on a mat in your bedroom, or whatever. And skating on a public session, with your kid(s) on the ice too, is often a nice compromise that I see a great deal at the rink.

Anyway, it's disappointing to see the usual disintegration of a conversation between parents and non-parents. We non-parents may be sometimes unrealistic or overly hopeful that balance can be reached. But we don't need to be "gently lectured" when we are trying to share with parents our hopes that they can (and should) enjoy their own athletic pursuits, too.

[twokidsskatemom]

I think Mercedes made a good point, and (s)he put it very pleasantly. She wasn't saying anyone is a martyr; and she wasn't putting down sacrifices for children per se. She was just saying parents should treat themselves well, too. I totally agree, and it's what I was trying to get across, too.

It's not a zero sum game. Moreover, I think over-reacting to people who say you should enjoy your life as a parent - and dismissing them as "not understanding what it's like to be a parent" - is missing the point. The point is, you don't put your own health/well-being/athletic joys *ahead* of your child(ren)'s. But you don't eliminate it either. You find ways to do both.

If skating is too expensive, there is always walking, running, shooting hoops, working out to a DVD, doing yoga on a mat in your bedroom, or whatever. And skating on a public session, with your kid(s) on the ice too, is often a nice compromise that I see a great deal at the rink.

Anyway, it's disappointing to see the usual disintegration of a conversation between parents and non-parents. We non-parents may be sometimes unrealistic or overly hopeful that balance can be reached. But we don't need to be "gently lectured" when we are trying to share with parents our hopes that they can (and should) enjoy their own athletic pursuits, too.
I see you as missing My point, just like you see me misssing yours.
No where did anyone say moms cant work out,go to a movie, go out to dinner, read a book, go on a trip, ski, fish,golf or any other activity. I didnt say that, nor did the other poster.
What we did say is its too spendy for me to have lessson, and spend as much on me as I do on them. For this FAMILY, that isnt in the cards.Im not lecuring anyone but I still dont see a need to not support my kids in a sport they love.THIS sport is more expensive than most.I also didnt say I dont skate. I do while my kids skate. But there is a huge difference between me skating and them skating.
Sorry you dont see it the way I do but such is life.:)

[BatikatII]

The point is, you don't put your own health/well-being/athletic joys *ahead* of your child(ren)'s. But you don't eliminate it either. You find ways to do both.

If skating is too expensive, there is always walking, running, shooting hoops, working out to a DVD, doing yoga on a mat in your bedroom, or whatever. And skating on a public session, with your kid(s) on the ice too, is often a nice compromise that I see a great deal at the rink.

.

but the whole point is we are talking about skating here - I dont' want to go walking or shooting hoops - I want to skate and so does my kid. Just skating on a public session isn't compromise in my book - it is giving up on both kid and parent.

I'm lucky in that we can afford for both myself and my kids to skate and have lessons but I know that had it come to the crunch, I would have given way to my kids provided that they were going to make the most of the opportunity in the way of working hard at skating and progressing and competing etc.

Until you have kids it is hard to understand the joy a parent gets from seeing their children succeed at something. I'd have given up my own skating for years if I had had to, to have the joy of watching my kids compete in the national championships pairs. I did cut back on my skating for a time but luckily did not have to give it up entirely.

Part of the reason for sacrificing one's own skating is that the children do have so much more opportunity to achieve something meaningful with their skating and with many comps being age related, they have to do it when they are still eligible or not at all, while for the parents we know that we can always go back to it later.

I knew I'd never get to a regular national championships but they could and did. I'm never going to be too old to go to the adult championships - too decrepit soon maybe!!!:lol: :lol:

We have quite a few skating parents with kids who skate too. Most start becaseu their kids start but in my case I dragged the kids along because I wanted to do it - of course they rapidly overtook me. A number of them do work as well or have worked as well. Not easy but it can be done. I don't know any parents who skate whose kids do not skate at all.

[b viswanathan]

I was responding to jskater more than to you. But I think both of you have a pretty lecturing tone, actually. We all get that you're a FAMILY. You don't need to hammer it home with capitals to get the point across.

Jskater first said she gave up skating. Then others said they couldn't afford to pay for lessons for themselves if their kids were skating. Mercedes suggested that it might be possible to pay for one's own lessons at times, rather than only for kids'. Then came the whole "I can't spend on myself as I do on them, and if you don't get that sacrifice is/must be involved, you're just not savvy to parenthood" (or "why would I have two kids if I didnt think I had to give up something?").

Again, it's not "spoil"/"indulge" vs. "be selfish"/"pay for my lessons and take away from my childrens' lessons". I was simply saying that you could spend *some* on yourself without detracting from your kids' future; and you could enjoy being athletic, and pursuing what you love, in ways that enhance them, you, and your FAMILY.

Anyway, I'm much more interested to see the dynamic up close and personal, in my wonderful extended family, where the athletes span generations in the best of ways.

[jskater49]

I think Mercedes made a good point, and (s)he put it very pleasantly. She wasn't saying anyone is a martyr; and she wasn't putting down sacrifices for children per se. She was just saying parents should treat themselves well, too. I totally agree, and it's what I was trying to get across, too..

Actually she said she thought it was sad, and thought that we should pull our kids out of skating so that we could skate. I was trying to tell her, there really was no reason to be sad, at least on my account. It's not sad. Really.

It's not a zero sum game. Moreover, I think over-reacting to people who say you should enjoy your life as a parent - and dismissing them as "not understanding what it's like to be a parent" - is missing the point. The point is, you don't put your own health/well-being/athletic joys *ahead* of your child(ren)'s. But you don't eliminate it either. You find ways to do both.
.

Actually I think the person who is saying that anyone who decides not to skate because it's too expensive to pay for two people skating is never saying no to their children and is unhappy and needs to have a life is the one who is over reacting. We were the ones trying to explain that just because it is necesary to sacrifice, it's not a miserable life and that you can still be happy and fulfilled and your children will not be spoiled.


If skating is too expensive, there is always walking, running, shooting hoops, working out to a DVD, doing yoga on a mat in your bedroom, or whatever. And skating on a public session, with your kid(s) on the ice too, is often a nice compromise that I see a great deal at the rink.



Um, did I or anyone say "I quit skating and then I had nothing to do and all I did was cook and clean and and slave to my children's desires?" I certainly didn't say that.


Anyway, it's disappointing to see the usual disintegration of a conversation between parents and non-parents. We non-parents may be sometimes unrealistic or overly hopeful that balance can be reached. But we don't need to be "gently lectured" when we are trying to share with parents our hopes that they can (and should) enjoy their own athletic pursuits, too.

Maybe you want to read the whole thing again. Because there were a lot of ASSUMPTIONS made about parents being made by a non-parent and they were silly and arrogant actually. And despite being offended by that arrogance, I tried to yes, "gently" explain what it is really like to be a parent. I never made assumptions about non-parents--I simply explained from experience to someone without experience.

If I do that, I'm the one causing the conversation to disintergrate. But its fine for someone who is not a parent to lecture me about how I need to enjoy life, say no to our kids--all because I didn't tell my kid to quit skating so we can skate.

I think what twokidsmom and I are trying to say and I don't why we are either being disbelieved or lectured or accused of ruining a conversation -- WE ARE NOT MISERABLE OR UNHAPPY OR HAVE SPOILED KIDS BECAUSE WE PUT OUR CHILDREN FIRST. I guess you just have to be a parent to believe and understand this, but is it too much to ask to take our word for it???

[twokidsskatemom]

Yes, I guess I could take away a lesson from one of my kids and have it myself.Between the two of them, they have 5 lessons a week
But why would I?
This all started as someone said the adult skaters with kids werent as devoted as adult skaters with kids.I dont think its that they are not devoted, its a time and money issue.
One of the reasons would be the cost of skating.Unless you are rich, it does make a huge inpact on the budget.yes, I guess I could let them stay rec skaters, and allow me the same things they get.We all could just skate like that.
But my skaters at least for now, are competive skaters.Its not that I mind spending the money on them now. Its not like I do without.Its just since we spend a small fortune now, there is no way to make the money go futher.
We are off to the rink to skate, all three of us :)

[jskater49]

I was responding to jskater more than to you. But I think both of you have a pretty lecturing tone, actually. We all get that you're a FAMILY. You don't need to hammer it home with capitals to get the point across..

I find telling me to enjoy life when I NEVER SAID I DID NOT ENJOY LIFE to be lecturing. I never told anyone to do anything - I simply tried to explain it from MY POV. If that's lecturing...well then I give up.
[/QUOTE]

[Isk8NYC]

I look at it this way: my kids are only going to be thisclose to me for a short time, then they'll have to make their own life. I can always skate later - I might even get brave enough to take up Dance once my knees give up on Freestyle skating. It's been hard coming back, but I'm making progress. As long as a parent isn't becoming resentful because they've "sacrificed," it's fine.

If you want to skate and you have little ones, you have to get creative to make the time and cost affordable. I have to say "thank g-d" that I tend to "step in good luck." I get a lot of $$ breaks on ice time, find good sales on equipment, but being a coach helps most of all. The Skating School has been generous and I know that, in a pinch, I can bring the girls when I don't have a sitter. The Club I teach at lets them practice on the group lesson ice and pay a "drop-in" rate for the MITF/Stroking lessons. As a result, I can teach two groups and three privates without paying for a sitter. The girls get a lot exercise, even off-ice: one of the twins has charmed the girls' track team, so they take the twins jogging on the track above the rink. (I heard the coach say "These eight-years olds are going faster than you high school girls - pick up your feet!" ROTFLOL)

It's easier with skating children than when you have little ones who need a sitter. Teaching my own kids is difficult (for me), but it's great for practices. This year, the twins have someone else as an instructor, but I do "reminders" during their practices. ("Didn't () say to keep that free foot in front?")

From the "Lead by Example" category: my kids actually practice what they've been working on in lessons and they use their Basic Skills booklets and practice notebooks. They were so impressed that I passed Pre-Prel last week, aka: "The Big Test." They helped me add the patches to my ISI collection. Now, the twins both want to take The Big Test themselves - so we'll make it happen.

[chantelly]

It's easier with skating children than when you have little ones who need a sitter.

Argh! so true! I cannot wait till my two get on and have a go with me! (the six year old has a try but isn't good enough for patch yet so still a problem with times!) I find it a nightmare to either get them looked after or have them sit on the side (there is a friend who sits with them for a bit) Who knows how I'll afford three skaters, but I'm going to have a go!

[jskater49]

To lighten up this thread -

My daughter took her pre-pre fs and I took my bre-bronze fs test at the same time on the same ice. We thought that was cool.

That was like five years ago and she's at intermediate and I'm still pre-bronze ...

j

[Isk8NYC]

A few creative solutions I've seen:

One woman coach has a "mother's helper" teen come to the rink during the freestyle sessions to keep her toddlers company. They've bartered babysitting for skating lessons.

Once, a woman asked me to barter private musical instrument lessons for her DD's skating lessons. I turned her down because none of my kids wanted the music lessons.

An adult student of mine would bring her kids to the rink with her regular babysitter. Afterwards, they all went home.

I used skate with two moms who took lessons on alternate weeks. While one was on lesson, the other had a playdate with both kids at the playground outside or the nearby McDonald's with the indoor playroom.

[Mrs Redboots]

Yes, I guess I could take away a lesson from one of my kids and have it myself.Between the two of them, they have 5 lessons a week
But why would I?
I don't think this is something that anybody who doesn't have kids of their own could ever understand - and none of us who do can quite see the point of view of those who don't!

I suppose I possibly have the best of both worlds, having had and raised a child - but she's now an adult (and this time next month will be a married woman!), and hasn't lived at home for seven or eight years now..... so we can afford our treats and pleasures now in a way we certainly could not have done while we were paying school fees for her!

[jskater49]

Oh oh oh. People who want me to take something away from my kids and give it to me...

The only time for a lesson we could get for my dd ended ten minutes too late for her to get to school on time. So I said I'd take the last ten minutes just to get my money's worth. Little did I know how much I would treasure that ten minutes. One day dd didn't have school. I wouldn't let her take those precious ten minutes from me.

"NO NO NO ! THEY ARE MINE! MINE I TeLL YOU!!!" :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

j

[Mercedeslove]

I think Mercedes made a good point, and (s)he put it very pleasantly. She wasn't saying anyone is a martyr; and she wasn't putting down sacrifices for children per se. She was just saying parents should treat themselves well, too. I totally agree, and it's what I was trying to get across, too.

It's not a zero sum game. Moreover, I think over-reacting to people who say you should enjoy your life as a parent - and dismissing them as "not understanding what it's like to be a parent" - is missing the point. The point is, you don't put your own health/well-being/athletic joys *ahead* of your child(ren)'s. But you don't eliminate it either. You find ways to do both.

If skating is too expensive, there is always walking, running, shooting hoops, working out to a DVD, doing yoga on a mat in your bedroom, or whatever. And skating on a public session, with your kid(s) on the ice too, is often a nice compromise that I see a great deal at the rink.

Anyway, it's disappointing to see the usual disintegration of a conversation between parents and non-parents. We non-parents may be sometimes unrealistic or overly hopeful that balance can be reached. But we don't need to be "gently lectured" when we are trying to share with parents our hopes that they can (and should) enjoy their own athletic pursuits, too.

People seem to be scared to "spoil themselves" it's like if they say no to little Betty Sue they're a monster and selfish.

I think if they say yes they are only pampering and spoiling their child, and before they know it they will be self centered and egotistical.

[Mercedeslove]

Yes, I guess I could take away a lesson from one of my kids and have it myself.Between the two of them, they have 5 lessons a week
But why would I?


Uhm because it is the -right- thing to do. They won't notice the difference.

[jazzpants]

Uhm because it is the -right- thing to do. They won't notice the difference.Don't think of it as taking away from your kids. Think of it as "sharing the coach and your lessons with them." ;)

[twokidsskatemom]

Uhm because it is the -right- thing to do. They won't notice the difference.

Listen, you dont get it. I get you dont get it.Butfor crying out loud, why is it the thing to DO? Who choose that ? Why would YOU think it wouldnt make a difference?If you dont think my kids who skate every day wouldnt notice?
When you have kids, you may raise them the way you see fit. But please dont tell me they wouldnt notice, or its the right thing to do... For who? YOU?

[twokidsskatemom]

People seem to be scared to "spoil themselves" it's like if they say no to little Betty Sue they're a monster and selfish.

I think if they say yes they are only pampering and spoiling their child, and before they know it they will be self centered and egotistical.
Why oh why is it that Im spoiling them? Why do you think they are pampered?Do you know what THEY give up to skate ? We say No to them every day. Why do you know more about them than I do?
Why do you not get the fact I spoiled myself the first 37 years of my life.I dont see the fact my kids skate = they are spoiled.
I know you dont get it. If you want to think Im a bad mom with no life, go ahead. But Im not and I have a fullfilled life without skating every day.!!!:giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :

[Sessy]

OH FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, STOP BICKERING EVERYBODY OR TAKE IT TO PM'ing!

Please mods, can this thread just get locked or something?! This isn't a discussion anymore, everybody just got their point of view and they're not changing it so it's completely pointless for this discussion to continue.

[Rob Dean]

So I said I'd take the last ten minutes just to get my money's worth. Little did I know how much I would treasure that ten minutes. One day dd didn't have school. I wouldn't let her take those precious ten minutes from me.

"NO NO NO ! THEY ARE MINE! MINE I TeLL YOU!!!" :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

j


When we were starting out, son and I used to share a lesson with the same coach. It was a useful disciplinary tool to be able to remind him that I'd be happy to take a bigger share of the lesson time if he didn't shape up. :twisted:

Rob