Fantabulous Waltz Jump

[miraclegro]

I can do really good waltz jumps, and waltz loops, etc. and so on. But how do these people get the really HUGE ones? I want to attain that. Any tips?

[techskater]

Uh, hard work and practice is usually the key. Usually they get bigger when you work on Axels because you use different aspects of the waltz jump to get your Axel, bigger still with 2Axels (same) and biggest when working on triples.

[SkatingOnClouds]

I must say straight away that I don't have a fantabulous waltz jump, however it has always been pretty solid and reliable.

Last night my coach and I looked at it again though, because I haven't been able to do a waltz/loop combo. Her advice was:

Think about making the jump higher rather than longer. I realised that I had gotten into the bad habit of not springing until the free foot was well past the skating leg. That gave me a nice, long, extended jump, but not much height, and of course putting a loop after it was impossible because I couldn't land with the free leg in front.

So now I am working on height, and springing much earlier in order to get that, and landing with the free leg in front. It worked, I got a couple of waltz/loop combos happening. I expect that working on height for whatever reason has to give you more time in the air to be able to do a fantabulous one.

[russiet]

I get nice high waltz jumps (usually). It may be the only jump I truly feel accomplished at. On my best days, I can do them at pretty good speed and cover a lot of ice as well. On my worst days, they still are well off the ice.

I find they get bigger when I concentrate on a long glide on the jumping foot, letting the ripping sound of the blade accelerate in intensity into a hard pivot point that I spring off of. Did that make sense? It may just be my way of thinking about it and not technically correct.

Just before stepping forward, my body is held high. Then when I step forward onto the jumping foot, I keep the knee bent and I am now low with my arms down and my hands in back of waist level (cocked for a strong upward move). Concentrate on the edge of the skating foot at this point.

Wait for it......wait....wait....

....and when the skating foot rips to a stop, I allow my whole body spring up off the skating leg, thowing the leg though and thowing my arms up so that my hands are at head level. I think UP. I only concentrate on UP. My entrance speed controls how far down the ice I'll go, so at this point the only thing I concentrate on is thowing myself as high as possible.

I get some pretty good altitude this way.

When my timing is off, I practice at very slow speeds, and it comes back together pretty quickly.

I hope that helps. I love a good waltz jump.

[Isk8NYC]

To increase the height of your jumps, you have to work on springing up from deeply bent knees. Strong edges and body control are great assets. Timing comes from practice and hard work, as someone else said.

One thing to try is to focus your vision on a spot higher than usual when you jump. If you're looking at the boards on the other side of the rink, raise your vision to the clock above the glass and jump up towards that clock. Deep knee, "explosive" spring action = higher jump.

I also teach skaters to do a split in the air when they do a waltz jump. (Almost like a hurdler would execute.) It raises their legs, so the jump immediately becomes higher, but it also teaches them to be able to use their legs during the jump. That's important for higher-level jumps as well.

Russiet gave you a really good narrative of the jump - try his method and make sure to keep your back straight in the air.

Who is the skater that jumps almost straight up in the air? I saw Mao Asada do this on her jumps, and I think Rudy Galindo was well-known for that talent. (He just had TWO hip replacements and he can still do triples!8O :bow: )

For the loop jump (my fav) you have to be willing to really ride the outside edge. Hold it, deepen your knee bend, then jump off the deep edge/knee. I used to do a delayed loop - just wait after you jump until you're coming back down, then bring the free arm around and close your legs. Could never do it on the double, though.

[Team Arthritis]

Wait for it......wait....wait....

....and when the skating foot rips to a stop, .... jump.
Nice description but I've never done a rip into a jump, how do you make it grab that much? 'm sure that learning to do this would really help me because I have a bad tendency to take off too early which can skid like crazy and come off the back of the blade.:frus:
Lyle

[flo]

keep your head up. Also, don't be too quick to turn and come down. Get some "hang time".

[Team Arthritis]

keep your head up. Also, don't be too quick to turn and come down. Get some "hang time".
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
I did a Sal like that this AM: LEaped and held a nice big air position like I was used to doing triples - WHAooo -=- too little loft for that and landed spread eagled half way around. OK back to reality:giveup:

Lyle

[russiet]

Nice description but I've never done a rip into a jump, how do you make it grab that much? 'm sure that learning to do this would really help me because I have a bad tendency to take off too early which can skid like crazy and come off the back of the blade.:frus:
Lyle

I know what you mean about too early. My coach asks me to wait for what he calls the "culmination point".

For practice, try ripping into just a 3-turn. Stay on a long edge, moving your weight slowly forward on the blade so that you create ever tighter lobe. This makes your blade rip the ice with increasing intensity. It should reach a point where the blade has no-where else to go but into crisp 3-turn.

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR>PUH<


This is fun with power 3's.

[Team Arthritis]

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR>PUH<


This is fun with power 3's.
Coooool I love sound effects, THANKS
Lyle

[doubletoe]

Russiet, what you are talking about is even more important for axels! A very common error on axel takeoffs is not getting the weight forward onto the ball of the foot before takeoff. If your weight is in the middle of the foot, you are almost guaranteed to do a "waxel!" So I try to think of pushing off onto the takeoff edge, gliding almost straight forward (on just the slightest outside curve), waiting until I feel my weight balanced on the ball of my foot, then springing straight up off the toe, pointing the toe on takeoff for that extra spring. :)

[sunjoy]

SOME ideas: Hmm, the idea about waiting for it is interesting. I'm quite a bit earlier on the learning curve than you, so I suspect it doesn't apply to me yet, but I'll experiment with holding a hard edge (rather than just waiting) -- edging a deep curve generally makes me bend my knee as well.

My coach told me that I was waiting too long after stepping onto the lfo, and thereby loosing the plyometric spring from the kneebend (she didn't mention plyo, but I think that's what was going on), so she had me work on doing a fast down-UP from that step. It's working for me -- defiinetly get more jump that way, whether practicing from a standing lfo or stepping into it from a rbo. But I suspect if I ride an intense edge, that will engage my knee extensors in a way that will give me more force to spring from later... Shall try it tonight. :)

I guess there are different aspects one can work on for a waltz. One is getting a good float, which is what this thread is. Another is practicing for that future axel to come, which I think is what my coach is having me do: unlike my book which says to spread the arms in the air, she wants me to hold them in front of me at a shoulder-height circle (like you would for say a 2-foot spin), and then work on having a good strong check on the landing to counter the spin that you get from bringing the arms in like that.

Questions: When you say hold the edge till it rips to a stop, do you mean something like holding it until that moment that you'd otherwise have to do a 3-turn? Another question is I've read things saying *not* to lean forward on the Waltz. But my book says to lean the upper body forward a bit to counter the force of bringing the arms forward and up. I find that if I don't do this forward lean, I get back on my skate and have to abort the jump (or sometimes almost feel like i'll fall over backwards). Is leaning forward OK, or is there a better way to not get backwards? thx.

[doubletoe]

There's a difference between leaning forward (meaning your shoulders and head are pitched forward, too) and pushing your chest out over your takeoff knee. You need to have your chest out over your knee, which is over the toes of your takeoff foot, but your head and shoulders must not be pitched forward. Your back must be arched, with shoulder blades squeezed together, and your landing side shoulder (right side for most of us) pulled back a little as you push off onto the takeoff edge. The more you bend your skating knee, the more your edge will tell you when it is done and wants to leave the ice. Your weight will transfer more and more to the front of the foot, then, before you wait too long, you'll want to use that momentum and roll up to the pick and pop straight up off of it. You'll know it when you do it. :)

[russiet]

Questions: When you say hold the edge till it rips to a stop, do you mean something like holding it until that moment that you'd otherwise have to do a 3-turn?

Yes & no. If you don't kick you're leg through, yes...it would go into a 3-turn.

I visualize the skating foot coming to a stop, and the rest of my body jumping up past it.

My timing fluctuates, and some days they don't fly. Even though it's a simple jump, the right timing can make it impressive.

When I encourage "waiting for it", it's probably due in part to my tendancy to rush moves. I probably had to do over 300 Waltz jumps before I started to think they looked good.

[sunjoy]

Your weight will transfer more and more to the front of the foot, then, before you wait too long, you'll want to use that momentum and roll up to the pick and pop straight up off of it. You'll know it when you do it. :)Bingo! Thinking about this fixed a lot of things. When I first taught myself simple little waltzes, I thought of it as a "side-to-side" jump. Somehow as my general skating got better and better, I started getting more and more linear with the jump (because I could get away with it), and my coach recently has me doing them on circles to try and fix that. This whole "ripping the edge" thing obviously puts me on a circle, and I'm back to feeling that it's a side to side jump, without overdoing that. And yeah, I'm effortlessly getting the same air that I was straining for yesterday. Good session. (Except for that someone stole my powder-blue skateguards -- a color I got because I figured no guy would want them. Guess girls steal too.).

[Team Arthritis]

There's a difference between leaning forward (meaning your shoulders and head are pitched forward, too) and pushing your chest out over your takeoff knee. . :)

yes yes yes, now please follow me around repeating "deep knee/ head up"! I suppose I could record it over and over and make a tape of this and play it for all my jumps!
Lyle

[doubletoe]

yes yes yes, now please follow me around repeating "deep knee/ head up"! I suppose I could record it over and over and make a tape of this and play it for all my jumps!
Lyle

I find that it helps to have a mental image of Foghorn Leghorn in my head when I step out onto the takeoff edge. It reminds me to arch my back and puff out my chest, LOL!

http://www.jwccpa.com/images/foghorn.gif