Anyone Else Hate the Toeloop?

[xofivebyfive]

OH MY GOSH! I hate the toe loop SO SO much. It just.. doesn't make any sense. Isn't it supposed to be the easiest of the jumps to do? I was taught it last, so I think I have this very strange mental block. My brain thinks that I'm doing something wrong because it's so easy. My first full single that I landed was the flip, which I'd say is significantly harder than the toeloop to pull off. I just don't understand the toeloop. What is its deal? When I pick back to do one.. I just blank out and i think my probably is that I turn before I jump up, which was a problem for a while with my flip and loop as well. Does anyone of you by any chance happen to have any advice for me? I'm about ready to give up on this jump completely. It's making me so angry because I need a toeloop to test for prepreliminary fs and it's driving me crazy. I hate that I can almost do an axel but I have no toeloop.

[NoVa Sk8r]

I *abhor* the toe loop. It's really a dumb jump. :twisted:

[froggy]

wow you have all your other jumps but the toeloop that's really neat! I love the toeloop! Although I can do it and with a lot of spring I'm forever been trying with my coach to do it correctly as a single jump, (I've been told a poor single toe loop will have to be relearned anyhow if you want to do a double toe) meaning letting the skating foot slide across on its back outside edge in front of the picking foot, I think its just one of those things I need to practice every time I'm on the ice. I also picked up the turning the head before the jump-a terrible habit if i realize I'm turnin my head I"ll stop my entering the jump and begin again, I think in my head like this-(ccw) "glide on left, RI3, left foot close to ice strech back like a rubberband, simutaneously: strong check-left arm in front/right back, head facing forward, bend right knee deeply, pick, pull, jump up, land".


good luck!!

[techskater]

We spent several months reworking the toe loop to get consistency for me on the double toe. I don't hate it any more. Do you have a real and true Mazurka? If not, have your coach teach you that as it will help with the beach ball kick through of the toe loop.

[doubletoe]

There are lots of skaters who hate the toeloop because it's so hard to resist pre-rotating the takeoff! There are several ways to pre-rotate the takeoff, and the reason they are so hard to correct is because they are so unconscious that you don't even realize you're doing it. Here are the big no-no's I've learned:

1. Turning your head during the 3-turn
This is currently my favorite mistake on my double toeloop entrance! Last week I finally learned to go into my 3-turn pretending I had a neck brace on, so that I could not move my head or shoulders during the 3-turn. I finally realized that if I have to look and re-focus to see the side of the rink I came from before picking, that means I turned my head during the turn. If I automatically see the side I came from as I exit the 3-turn, it means I managed to keep my head still.

2. Opening out the picking side shoulder on the 3-turn exit
Again, the neck brace image helps on this, but extend it a little further down to include your picking side shoulder. Shoulders should remain at 10:00 and 4:00 going into the 3-turn and coming out of it, assuming you pick with your left foot. And make sure your picking side arm is still in front of you when you feel your pick going into the ice.

3. Picking behind your skating foot
Whenever I think I'm picking straight back, I look at my ice marks and invariably find that I actually picked with my picking foot crossed behind my skating foot. It's hard not to do! My coach always says, "Pick at 7:00 or 8:00" and now I see why. When I try to pick somewhat to the outside instead of straight back, I find that my pick finally ends up happening straight back. Apparenlty, most skaters have this problem.

4. Making the 3-turn too round
Just like the flip, the toeloop works better from a straighter 3-turn. It helps to push out to the right of the line, do a long, straight entrance edge, then do the 3-turn to the right of the line, pick before or right on the line, and only cross the line on your landing edge. (This pattern works great for the flip, too.) But make the exit edge very short and pick before rising up from the 3-turn. You never want to pick from a straight skating leg.

5. Turning forward on the toe before jumping
This is usually a result of doing one of the other no-no's, but it can also just be from spending too much time on the toe (another one of my favorite mistakes!). If you don't pop up quickly when you pick, the foot will start to pivot on the ice and you'll end up with your foot facing forwards on takeoff. That is technically a toe-waltz jump (or in the case of a double toeloop, a toe-axel). Neither counts as a correct toeloop.

[sk8er08]

it just so happens i love the toeloop it my highest and best jump! i do pre-rotate it sometimes tho. but whatever you do don't give up u will really regret it! there's alot of skaters at my rink who hate the toeloop and can't really do it but they have their axel. u said you almost got your axel.that's awesome!!! i don't have my axel down yet, i can't do a very goot lutz, and for some reason my backspin isn't even a backspin.lol so everybody has their things that they can't do as well as someone else. if you get irritated working on it stop and do a spin or another jump or somethin.u'll get it! good luck!

[Skate@Delaware]

3. Picking behind your skating foot
Whenever I think I'm picking straight back, I look at my ice marks and invariably find that I actually picked with my picking foot crossed behind my skating foot. It's hard not to do! My coach always says, "Pick at 7:00 or 8:00" and now I see why. When I try to pick somewhat to the outside instead of straight back, I find that my pick finally ends up happening straight back. Apparenlty, most skaters have this problem.
I was (incorrectly) taught to pick way behind and across-to about 4-5 o'clock. I also had to relearn 3-turns and get some speed into them. Skaters at my rink are still being taught the wrong way. Oh well. I still don't like the toe loop but I like it better than bunny hops! I have done maybe 3 wonderful toe loops since relearning!!!! What a feeling!

[itfigures]

I love the toe loop! That is one of my fav. jumps!!
The only thing that I hate about it is doubles!!! I cannot get it!:frus: :frus:

[teresa]

I used to hate the top loop. I was taught to do a toe walley with an old coach, I thought it was a toe loop, and I had to reteach everything I thought I knew. Relearning skills is hard, for me anyhow. Nowadays it feels much better and I can double it on the floor. Keep trying, it is a weird jump.

teresa

[Skate@Delaware]

what's really weird-i like the toe-walley...just hate the toe-loop!!! i think it's the 3-turn that does me in....and picking behind me..although for that, I'm getting better (somewhat) because it's not waltzing...

[vesperholly]

I hate toe loops inasmuch as my double is terrible. My single toe loop is fine, I guess. I don't like doing it in combination, I much prefer the loop. But with the new WBP rules, I'm going to have to do it because I can only do two loops per program. :(

[Sk8pdx]

what's really weird-i like the toe-walley...just hate the toe-loop!!! i think it's the 3-turn that does me in....and picking behind me..although for that, I'm getting better (somewhat) because it's not waltzing...

I'm with you, S@D, I have problems with anything with a 3 turn entrance (leaning too far forward at the waist and not being conrolled.) Practicing toe-walley's helps me to feel where the picking foot is supposed to be. I used to hate toe-loops :twisted:, but now they aren't so bad and I tolerate them much better.:P

[kateskate]

I hate toe loops inasmuch as my double is terrible. My single toe loop is fine, I guess. I don't like doing it in combination, I much prefer the loop. (

I'm with you. I don't mind the toeloop solo but for combinations I much prefer the loop as the second jump. I think that is more to do with me not checking the exit of the first jump correctly when I anticipate the toe loop

[Team Arthritis]

Rather than picking too far across, I pick too far to left (CCW jumper). ANy thoughts? I think I'll try going back to the Mazurka and see if time and magic has made it any less frightening.8O
Lyle

[flo]

A single is a pain, double it for more fun.

[2loop2loop]

I hate the double toe, I can only do it from the LFO three turn entrance, the RFI makes me fall every time. When I land it it feels easy, but I can't convince myself that I like it. I'd rather work on any jump up to 3sal and 3loop than work on the double toe!

John

[TimDavidSkate]

I hate toe loops :giveup: :evil:

[russiet]

Rather than picking too far across, I pick too far to left (CCW jumper). ANy thoughts? I think I'll try going back to the Mazurka and see if time and magic has made it any less frightening.8O
Lyle

Careful to not learn a Toe-zurka.

I learned a to do a big mazurka last year when my coach was having troubles getting me to do toe loops. It was supposed to act as a stepping stone.

Now I can't get my mind out of mazurka mode & my toe loops still generally suck.

For a mazurka, my body is twisted before picking, then snaps back as the pick hits and the skating foot is thrown forward. It's a very twisted-up 1/2 rev jump.

I've been practicing toe loops on dry land with success, so I'm hopeful the timing will come together on ice as well. You might try the in-sneaker approach. At least it's helped my confidence.

[coskater64]

I must be the only one I like toe loops and I've always liked doing axel muzurka double toe, when I could jump....8O

[techskater]

I like them now that I can do them properly!!! :halo:

[looplover]

I don't hate them, but I feel like I'm not picking in enough when I do them and I'm cheating or something. Like maybe I'm doing a salchow instead, but I know I am briefly transfering my weight to the picking foot to vault. They just feel strange.

[pennybeagle]

I only like toe loops as part of a combination, but even then, they are my weakest jump. For whatever reason, I am just incapable of doing a single toe loop from an inside 3-turn. I prefer the toe-walley, and use that entrance for attempts at the double (which are not very often and not very good).

The single toe loop scares me if I'm going into it with speed. I have zero feel for the timing. I know what I'm SUPPOSED to do, but my body won't do it. I once missed the ice with my toe pick altogether and end up doing a Charlie Brown football kick thing with my picking foot just kicking up in the air and me landing on my back. Ever since I did that, I've been permanently spooked.

So... question about the sub-thread going on here about repeating jumps at AN... does this mean I can do, say, lutz-loop-loop and axel-loop as my combos rather than try to put a toeloop in there somewhere?

[Tessa]

I do! I hate them! I had a bad fall last year trying NOT to do a toe waltz. It's just a silly little hop but I cannot get it the proper way. Working on it though.

[mikawendy]

So... question about the sub-thread going on here about repeating jumps at AN... does this mean I can do, say, lutz-loop-loop and axel-loop as my combos rather than try to put a toeloop in there somewhere?

Speaking of the sub-thread...do any of you moderators want to split the threads? This sub-thread about WBP requirements/changes is interesting, and people who have not come into this thread may not know about it.

[Isk8NYC]

Speaking of the sub-thread...do any of you moderators want to split the threads? This sub-thread about WBP requirements/changes is interesting, and people who have not come into this thread may not know about it.
Okay, I split the posts as best I could, into two threads.

To chat about the WBP Requirements Changes, go to THIS THREAD (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=22478).

To chat about how much you hate the Toeloop, stay here and post away!

[DallasSkater]

put me down in the I hate toe loops group! Similar to several on here, I experienced my worst fall from attempting one and since have had issue with confidence. I typically fold my shoulder in or something like that which causes me to fall right on to my right hip. My coach is making me do them in every lesson because she said I could not have a jump that I avoid at all costs. This week I have not fallen once on them. But still have a whimpy pick into the ice reflective of my feelings! Hard to imagine I will ever really like them. Thought that about the waltz jump though and I eventually made friends with it.

[techskater]

Dallas, just keep telling yourself how much you love them and eventually it will be true!!

[doubletoe]

Dallas, I know what you mean. I have been tortured over my toeloop takeoff for months now, LOL! We worked on it some more on the harness yesterday and my double toe started behaving once I remembered two things: To keep my head and shoulders completely still on the 3-turn (just as though I were in a neck brace) and to "jump from down, don't jump from up". In other words, stay down on a bent knee as you exit the 3-turn so that your pick goes into the ice while your skating knee is still deeply bent and then you help push yourself up with your toe. Don't straighten up and then pick.

[sunjoy]

Funny, it came (actually is *in the process* of coming) pretty easilly for me. I was doing mazurkas and ballet jumps, and by accident did a toe-waltz (which at the time I thought was a toe-loop). I think i've gotten better about not pre-rotating, but it's still a mess, since I haven't been coached on it yet. Hopefully my coach and I can go over it tomorrow.

It'll be my first full jump. I can't even begin to do a sal yet.

[Sonic]

I'm with you, S@D, I have problems with anything with a 3 turn entrance (leaning too far forward at the waist and not being conrolled.)

Tell me about it! Well, my toe loop isn't too bad but I'm having a nightmare with flip!

S xxx

[Skate@Delaware]

as much as i HATE toepick jumps....i have 3 of them in my program! a ballet jump, a 1/2 lutz and a 1/2 toe-walley!!!!!8O

Of those, I like the ballet and the 1/2 walley, and the 1/2 lutz is just plain WEIRD!!!!!

[lillia]

The toeloop is actually not that hard.
The double toe is like an axel with a toepick before.
You just have to make sure your hips is correctly placed below the shoulders and to go past the toepick-foot.
After you've done that it's just an axel :)

[mikawendy]

The toeloop is actually not that hard.
The double toe is like an axel with a toepick before.
You just have to make sure your hips is correctly placed below the shoulders and to go past the toepick-foot.
After you've done that it's just an axel :)

From what I've heard, an axel type jump with a toe takeoff might not be considered a true double toe loop. If you've prerotated more than 1/4 revolution before taking off (such as if one were facing forward as if for an axel takeoff), the double toe would be considered underrotated and, in an event judged under the new judging system, would be penalized.

Did you instead mean that getting the feel of rotating more than once around is similar in the double toe as compared with the axel?

[Sessy]

Hmmm... You know the very first time I got my toeloop was when the rink started playing that stupid song "Froooom Paris to Berlin and every disco I get in , my heart is pumpin' for love, pumpin' for love..."

Basically I just did a sharp 3-turn on the approach, banged my foot as hard as I could into the ice and jumped up as hard as I could and I automatically landed it... Just like completely without giving yourself any time to think about it.

But that's just for the single, I can't do a double although I did a 1,5 one by accident once when I pulled in my arms too hard.

[jskater49]

I will never forget, when my daughter was like 10 and still in basic skills, trying to figure out how to do a toe loop (she's 16 now and I still don't do a toe loop, but I'm going to tack it on to my waltz jump one of these days)...and she says ..."is this what you are trying to do?" and does it. And to add insult to injury, she could never remember which foot to do it on so she used to do it on both feet.

I mean, I just had no idea of how to do the jump, I couldn't even do a toe waltz...then one day my coach had me do a half flip, side toe hop, waltz jump, that I fumbled up..and she looks at me strangely - and says "Did I tell you to do a toe loop? Because that's what you just did." and that's how I got the concept of at least a toe waltz...

j

[Sessy]

LOL! Yeah I can do the toeloop clockwise too, one of the few jumps I can do clockwise. I'd not suggest taking a habit of actually practicing it from a waltz though, it's more difficult to do the jump in combination.

When we started practicing toeloops in class, we'd verrrrrry slowly, from a right back outside edge (a very slow right back outside edge, almost standstill, and no 3-turn first) pick in the left foot keeping the leg "short" (that is, sort of pulling in/up the hip and not trying to reach "as far backwards as I can") and then putting the toe in the ice, rotating on the toepick on the ice, and then stepping out of that. No jumping at all, and of course when you rotate on the toepick, your leg is stretched.

It's VERY helpful. And you're not actually jumping there so it's not more scary than a spin! Though take care that on a spin, you don't get on your toepick and here you DO.
I practiced it this way after I sprained my anckle and when I got back to jumping, my toeloop was more secure than before the sprained ankcle (even though the other jumps were less secure).