Blades! Switching from Gold Seals to...?

[Stormy]

So I'm FINALLY getting new skates, and I'm thinking of switching from Gold Seals to something else. Gold Seals are so expensive and I can get away with something cheaper. I like a big toe pick, so I'm thinking of Phantom Specials. I don't want K Pick and I dont' think I need Parabolic either although I know people who like Parabolic. I'm Silver level hoping to move up to Gold, working on axels and doubles up to flip. I know I DON'T want Pattern 99s.

What blades do you have, and why do you like them? Any suggestions?

[TaBalie]

I have regular Phantoms (acutally just got my third pair) and love them!

[vesperholly]

I switched from Gold Seals to Phantoms and had a terrible time with my spins - though I also got new boots and had problems with them, too. But my spins improved once I got over the breaking-in stage. Jumps improved immediately. I like the bigger toe pick immensely.

Ugh, don't ever bother with K-Pick!

How are Phantom Specials different than regular Phantoms? Have you looked into Gold Stars? I think they have the same rocker as Gold Seals but bigger toe picks.

[icedancer2]

Do you really need new blades, too? Might be easier to keep the blades while you are breaking in new boots, if the GSs have any life left in them.

Just my 2 cents as a person who no longer freestyles at all. (but is blade-obsessed).

[TashaKat]

The Gold Stars are nice, I started on them before I went onto Gold Seals but they're about the same price (over here anyway) so that doesn't solve your problem.

Personally I wouldn't part with my Gold Seals for anything (well, maybe a few million ;) ), they're expensive but last for ages so skate for skate don't really cost very much ......

[Stormy]

No, the Gold Seals are literally down to their LAST sharpening. They're probably close to 6 years old at this point. The Phantom Special has a solid sole plate which I do like. The big cross cut picks on the Phantom are what's really drawing me to them, but the change in rocker does worry me. I will look into the Gold Stars.

[Casey]

How are Phantom Specials different than regular Phantoms?
They have deeply side-honed edges (more than any other blade) if I remember correctly.

Have you looked into Gold Stars? I think they have the same rocker as Gold Seals but bigger toe picks.No they're not - they're a 7' rocker. That's what I had before I got my current blades (Gold Seals). I didn't notice any toepick difference...but will compare them later. I personally like the gold seals much better but in any case would not jump to a 7' rocker if you're happy with 8' now unless you're very lightweight... ;)

Why don't you want Pattern 99's?

[doubletoe]

Phantom Specials and regular Phantoms both have a 7' rocker, as do Gold Stars. So if you want to stick with an 8' rocker without getting Gold Seals, you may need to get Pattern 99's.
Phantom specials have a "dovetail" which I think means they are tapered toward the back. A friend of mine who has them says they are supposed to be faster, but who knows?!

[vesperholly]

They have deeply side-honed edges (more than any other blade) if I remember correctly.
I just looked at my blades, which are regular Phantoms, and they are side-honed (thicker to thinner from plate to edge). I think doubletoe is right that they are dove-tailed (thicker to thinner from toe pick to heel).

Edit: OK, I was wrong about what dove-tailed is here. Thicker to thinner from toe pick to heel is actually tapering.

[Casey]

Ok, looked it up.

Phantom Specials are different from regular Phantoms in two respects - one, they have a solid toe plate like a Gold Seal. Two, they have a "dovetailed edge section", which means, essentially, they're side-honed.

But they are side-honed more than any other blade on the market. From a good page on the matter (http://chuck-wright.com/Skating/sharpening.html):

"Note that on side-honed blades, the side of the blade where it meets the ice is cut at an angle to the plane of the blade, so the bite angle is effectively increased by this amount. On side-honed blades that I have examined, this angle appears to be between 2 and 3 degrees. An exception is the Phantom Special, on which the side is cut at an angle of about 9 degrees!"

It means that to feel similar, you'd need a different ROH sharpening than whatever you've got on your current blades - well and they still won't feel similar given the rocker difference...

[samba]

My son used Phantom Specials when they first came out and never looked back, double jumps that he was only just landing were suddenly landed and new doubles came easier, I think the shape of the Specials allow them to be more forgiving if you have a bad landing because it allows you to hold on to your edge at greater angles. If only I were good enough to even consider them!!

[Stormy]

My son used Phantom Specials when they first came out and never looked back, double jumps that he was only just landing were suddenly landed and new doubles came easier, I think the shape of the Specials allow them to be more forgiving if you have a bad landing because it allows you to hold on to your edge at greater angles. If only I were good enough to even consider them!!

That would be helpful for me! :)

What about Ultima blades? Anyone have those?

[Mrs Redboots]

That would be helpful for me! :)

What about Ultima blades? Anyone have those?Are those the ones that screw in to a permanently fixed mount? If so, the current British champion, John Hamer, has them this season, and loves them.

[techskater]

The screw ins are Matrix blades, the Ultimas are made by Jackson. Some swear by them and others hate them.

[vesperholly]

Phantom Specials are different from regular Phantoms in two respects - one, they have a solid toe plate like a Gold Seal. Two, they have a "dovetailed edge section", which means, essentially, they're side-honed.
But dovetail is not the same as side-honing. You can have a side-honed blade that is not dovetail. Side-honing is when a blade is thicker at the plates and thinner towards the edge.

Here's a photo of my Phantoms (http://users.adelphia.net/~jdelmar/images/skates2.jpg), which are side-honed but not dovetailed. Look at the shading on the blades, especially under the heel where the stanchion meets the long part. That is side-honing. (I was mistaken in my earlier post where I confused dovetailing with tapering.)

Dovetail is when the edge part of the blade is literally thinner on both sides because of an angled cut on either side:

|_____|
../__\

A dovetailed blade looks like the picture on the left, if you were looking at the blade from the back:
http://www.diydata.com/techniques/timber_joints/frame_joints/dovetail.gif

[Stormy]

What would be the advantage to a dovetailed blade? I'm definitely leaning towards the Phantom, still maybe the Phantom Special. I don't know anyone with the Matrix blades, but a couple people have Ultimas and like them.

Vesper, your skates look so nice and white. I can't wait till mine look like that again. Last year for synchro I had to spray them beige and they look awful, half the beige has chipped off.

[Casey]

But dovetail is not the same as side-honing. You can have a side-honed blade that is not dovetail. Side-honing is when a blade is thicker at the plates and thinner towards the edge.
Hmm, I want to see a pair of Specials in person now. :)

[samba]

Hmm, I want to see a pair of Specials in person now. :)

Hi Casey, here's a pic of son's blade, you will need to scrole across, kept it big so you could hopefully see more details, couldnt get it to focus properly to emphasise the dovetail but verperholly's description is good:

Samba

http://www.telsforums.co.uk/Blade.jpg

[Team Arthritis]

I have the Ultima Matrix blades. If you are like me and love sharp blades then these are great as you can get a second pair of blade runners and change to sharp blades in 2 minutes max. ALso easier to give the runners than boots to sharpener if you use one away from the rink - would make mailing them reasonable.

Only problem is that the screw shanks get a lot of stress and will compress a little and "click" as you walk in them. I'm getting a new pair after 6 months of use.
Lyle

[doubletoe]

What would be the advantage to a dovetailed blade? I'm definitely leaning towards the Phantom, still maybe the Phantom Special. I don't know anyone with the Matrix blades, but a couple people have Ultimas and like them.

Vesper, your skates look so nice and white. I can't wait till mine look like that again. Last year for synchro I had to spray them beige and they look awful, half the beige has chipped off.

But dovetail is not the same as side-honing. You can have a side-honed blade that is not dovetail. Side-honing is when a blade is thicker at the plates and thinner towards the edge.

Here's a photo of my Phantoms (http://users.adelphia.net/~jdelmar/images/skates2.jpg), which are side-honed but not dovetailed. Look at the shading on the blades, especially under the heel where the stanchion meets the long part. That is side-honing. (I was mistaken in my earlier post where I confused dovetailing with tapering.)

Dovetail is when the edge part of the blade is literally thinner on both sides because of an angled cut on either side:

|_____|
../__\

Yes, I remember now. My friend's Phantom Specials look like they are thinner toward the bottom of the blade, not the back of the blade. They look different from the side-honed blades (like my MK Gold Stars) which are flared out at the bottoms, but apparently, both features give you more bite angle. Based on that link Casey posted (which I've seen before and found very interestin), the Phantom Specials give you more edge bite than any other blade, so I guess if you like the feeling of sharp blades that hold a deep edge really well, then you would like them. Then again, as Casey said, you may want to sharpen with a larger ROH if they feel too sharp.

[luna_skater]

Gams are worth looking into as well. They are outselling just about everything else in Alberta these days (all levels, including National and International Senior competitors). I have the G10s and love them. They don't have the giant pick some of the other blades do, but mine aren't the top model. I think I paid about $300 for mine. They have a really nice glide and stability that I never felt on my Ultimas or MKs. The company is Canadian, so I don't know how accessible the blades are in the US, but it would be worth doing a bit of research: http://www.gamskates.com.

[luna_skater]

Gams are worth looking into as well. They are outselling just about everything else in Alberta these days (all levels, including National and International Senior competitors). I have the G10s and love them. They don't have the giant pick some of the other blades do, but mine aren't the top model. I think I paid about $300 for mine. They have a really nice glide and stability that I never felt on my Ultimas or MKs. The company is Canadian, so I don't know how accessible the blades are in the US, but it would be worth doing a bit of research: http://www.gamskates.com.

ETA: Don't be fooled by the rocker measurements shown on the site. The 7' and 8' that we usually refer to aren't accurate measurements, but they are standard for the industry. The Gam site shows the precise rocker measurements, and also refers to the primary and complex rocker. My Ultimas were listed as an 8' rocker, and my G10's actually feel a bit more curved.

[icedancer2]

Gams are worth looking into as well. They are outselling just about everything else in Alberta these days (all levels, including National and International Senior competitors). I have the G10s and love them. They don't have the giant pick some of the other blades do, but mine aren't the top model. I think I paid about $300 for mine. They have a really nice glide and stability that I never felt on my Ultimas or MKs. The company is Canadian, so I don't know how accessible the blades are in the US, but it would be worth doing a bit of research: http://www.gamskates.com.



lunaskater, thanks for pointing out this site. Is there any way to see the prices? I notice they have a dance blade... do you know anyone that is using them?

icedancer2, the blade obsessed...

[luna_skater]

lunaskater, thanks for pointing out this site. Is there any way to see the prices? I notice they have a dance blade... do you know anyone that is using them?

icedancer2, the blade obsessed...

I don't personally know anyone who is using the dance blade; sorry! As for pricing, they had a very good customer service department when I called last summer to ask some Q's about boots, so give them a call! :)

[Purple Sparkly]

Okay, here I am resurrecting an old thread from years ago...

I currently have Phantoms and I have had this same pair for nearly 10 years. I am planning to get new skates next year, and if I switch manufacturers, there is a chance I'll also have to get new blades. Stormy, I am pretty sure you and I wear the same size shoe (women's 6). What size are the blades on your Reidell's? My blades are 9 1/4 and I remember that the blades when I was in Reidell years ago were too big for my new SP Teri's at the time, but I don't remember by how much and I know that those boots were also at least a half size too big for me.

If I do need new blades, I want to use this opportunity to consider switching to a different model. My coach recommends to stay in Phantoms because she says it is harder to switch after you start the "big jumps" (doubles). I don't feel that I would have difficulty transitioning, but I won't switch if a different blade wouldn't provide any improvements, especially if it is a much more expensive blade.

So, vesperholly said she switched from Gold Seal to Phantom and was happy with the switch. I am considering going the other way (on blade choice, Stormy) and am looking for more feedback. Also, I am interested in the discussion regarding the Phantom Special and am curious to see if anybody has any updated information with these blades. I understand the dovetailing, but is the dovetailing instead of tapering and not in addition to? Perhaps I just need to make a trip to a skate shop that has both to compare.

[doubletoe]

Okay, here I am resurrecting an old thread from years ago...

I currently have Phantoms and I have had this same pair for nearly 10 years. I am planning to get new skates next year, and if I switch manufacturers, there is a chance I'll also have to get new blades. Stormy, I am pretty sure you and I wear the same size shoe (women's 6). What size are the blades on your Reidell's? My blades are 9 1/4 and I remember that the blades when I was in Reidell years ago were too big for my new SP Teri's at the time, but I don't remember by how much and I know that those boots were also at least a half size too big for me.

If I do need new blades, I want to use this opportunity to consider switching to a different model. My coach recommends to stay in Phantoms because she says it is harder to switch after you start the "big jumps" (doubles). I don't feel that I would have difficulty transitioning, but I won't switch if a different blade wouldn't provide any improvements, especially if it is a much more expensive blade.

So, vesperholly said she switched from Gold Seal to Phantom and was happy with the switch. I am considering going the other way (on blade choice, Stormy) and am looking for more feedback. Also, I am interested in the discussion regarding the Phantom Special and am curious to see if anybody has any updated information with these blades. I understand the dovetailing, but is the dovetailing instead of tapering and not in addition to? Perhaps I just need to make a trip to a skate shop that has both to compare.

Have you considered the Pattern 99? The rocker is 8' instead of 7', so you will have more glide and stability on the ice, especially on jump landings. The Pattern 99 has a very similar rocker shape to the Phantom, so with that switch you run less of a risk of losing your timing on edge jump takeoffs (especially the axel).

[Stormy]

Okay, here I am resurrecting an old thread from years ago...

I currently have Phantoms and I have had this same pair for nearly 10 years. I am planning to get new skates next year, and if I switch manufacturers, there is a chance I'll also have to get new blades. Stormy, I am pretty sure you and I wear the same size shoe (women's 6). What size are the blades on your Reidell's? My blades are 9 1/4 and I remember that the blades when I was in Reidell years ago were too big for my new SP Teri's at the time, but I don't remember by how much and I know that those boots were also at least a half size too big for me.

If I do need new blades, I want to use this opportunity to consider switching to a different model. My coach recommends to stay in Phantoms because she says it is harder to switch after you start the "big jumps" (doubles). I don't feel that I would have difficulty transitioning, but I won't switch if a different blade wouldn't provide any improvements, especially if it is a much more expensive blade.

So, vesperholly said she switched from Gold Seal to Phantom and was happy with the switch. I am considering going the other way (on blade choice, Stormy) and am looking for more feedback. Also, I am interested in the discussion regarding the Phantom Special and am curious to see if anybody has any updated information with these blades. I understand the dovetailing, but is the dovetailing instead of tapering and not in addition to? Perhaps I just need to make a trip to a skate shop that has both to compare.

I believe they're 9 1/4, but I'll check...they're out in the car. I went from Gold Seals to Ultima Freestyles which I despised, to Phantoms. I now have the Phantom K-Pick and I am completely sold on the K-Pick. Your toepick feels a mile wide when you tap in for jumps. I noticed a difference immediately. If you want a change but might not want to switch blades, I'd try the Phantom K-Pick. But that said, I did love my Gold Seals too. It's only the cost that makes me shy away from them now.

[Purple Sparkly]

I have been biased against the Pattern 99 because it is not tapered, although I don't know if it really makes that much of a difference. I may find the different rocker more beneficial than the taper. I know there are people that swear by them. They look to be about $15 cheaper than Phantom.

Stormy, interesting that you say that about the K-Pick. I have known people that have them, but I have never heard any specific comments regarding them. I'm not sure if I need more stability in my toepicks. Did you feel you were particularly unstable before you had the K-Pick, or did you notice it was just more comfortable when you got them?

Truthfully, I don't know how much of a difference in performance I would notice, regardless of what I would switch to. I am already in a high quality blade and I didn't really notice an adjustment when I switched to the Phantom. I don't recall them feeling significantly different than my Professionals. I guess I am just feeling like something is a little off and I'm having a hard time accepting I just suck that bad and feel that an equipment change may help.

[Purple Sparkly]

Also, if yours are 9 1/4, I might not need new blades due to size for the different boot manufacturer. I have a good bit of life left in the blades, so I wouldn't need new blades due to that.

[Casey]

I've never tried Phantoms or Pattern 99's, but the Gold Seals are absolutely wonderful blades. I wish I still had mine. I had Gold Stars previous to that and while they were great, the Gold Seals were much better for me, despite various warnings about them being too much blade for my level. I'm on Paramounts now and they're alright - better than I expected them to be, and the stainless steel runners stay sharp FOREVER and you don't have to worry about rust - but they just don't have the same feel and I don't think I'll bother buying anything but Gold Seals again. They made a marked difference in my ability to center spins (I got up to 40+ revolutions well-centered) and the toe picks were particularly awesome.

And if you can afford the extra $100 and wait time for getting a gold-plated set, they look absolutely stunning:
http://casey.shobe.info/images/index.php?s=Interests%2FSkates%2FKlingbeils+%26+JW +Gold+Seals

*sigh* How I miss them so...

I don't skate much at all anymore and my current skates are still in great shape so who knows if/when I'll ever get another set like that, but anyways - I highly, highly recommend them.

[vesperholly]

Ooh, necropost! :lol:

I now have the Phantom K-Pick and I am completely sold on the K-Pick. Your toepick feels a mile wide when you tap in for jumps. I noticed a difference immediately. If you want a change but might not want to switch blades, I'd try the Phantom K-Pick.
Interesting!! It makes me feel better about k-picks, knowing that you like them! That probably doesn't make sense but I'm tired and inarticulate at the moment :)

But that said, I did love my Gold Seals too. It's only the cost that makes me shy away from them now.

This exactly. I loved my Gold Seals, but I just couldn't swing $500+ (though the Phantoms have gone up a lot, I got mine for $375). However, I never did land my axel on the Gold Seals after many years, and first landed it about six months after switching to the Phantoms. There were other factors, but for me, I think the 7' rocker made a difference with my jumps. Sadly, I can't say the same for my spins.

[Stormy]

Purple Sparkly, I've always been biased against Pattern 99 too. I don't like the look or the toepicks.

It's not that I was unstable without the K-Pick, I just noticed an immediate difference with it. I'm not sure if it's something everyone "needs", but I'm really sold on it now. Blades are more expensive with the K-Pick though, so that's a negative.

What are you feeling is off? Jumps, spins? Things in general?

[Purple Sparkly]

I don't feel like my jumps and spins are off, just my skating in general. I feel like I'm not getting good edges, flow, and speed. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations of my ability, but I feel like I should be a better skater after this much time and work. I am frustrated and it feels like I don't get better.

The K Pick might help, but I don't necessarily think I need a change with the toepick. I realize that if I leave the Phantom, there will be a different toepick, but it isn't the reason for the change. I am actually now considering the Pattern 99 even though I have historically not liked it. I don't really have a good reason for not liking it since I have never skated on it.

[Casey]

I don't feel like my jumps and spins are off, just my skating in general. I feel like I'm not getting good edges, flow, and speed.

Have you tried different sharpening radiuses? If your edges aren't secure you would likely benefit from a sharper angle (smaller radius of hollow). But with sharper edges comes more drag and less speed, theoretically. I always liked a sharper ROH than most people do, and didn't feel that my speed suffered.

A tapered or parabolic blade means that the resulting bite angle will be different at different parts of the blade, regardless of your ROH choice. Another variable is how hard the ice you're skating on happens to be.

Beginners often like a ROH of 1/2" to 3/4", or even as much as 1". Most hockey players prefer 1/2" or 5/8". The usual for figure skating is 7/16". I personally preferred 3/8" or 1/4" on both Gold Stars and Gold Seals - which means I feel very confident on deep edges, but other things are also more difficult, like say, a one-foot stop. The larger the ROH, the less sharp the blade.

I've also noticed that my current blades, which have stainless steel runners, feel an awful lot sharper than my old ones did with the same ROH. I think this is in part because they are not parabolic, and also because it takes a lot longer for the edges to dull after sharpening. It's a bit annoying so I might get a flatter ROH on my next sharpening. So maybe see about trying a different ROH with your current blades and seeing the effect? If you don't like a move in one direction, try going in the other!

[RachelSk8er]

About the K picks--my coach and most of the others at my rink are very, very much against these because he says they can lead to bad habits on toe jumps. I can see how that would be, although at the same time, the greater surface area *might* teach you not to jab the toepick into the ice on a jump. Or you can just do what I did--lose your big toenails (from other sports, not figure skating-related). The pain from toe jumps will teach you not to jab your toe real fast. My coach is def making the most out of this situation.

I'm hoping my Gold Stars last a while so I don't have to deal with the headache of finding new blades...ugh. I'm clueless. I probably won't want to shell out for new Gold Stars when the time comes (got these practically free, they were a sample at the hockey shop my uncle worked at that he gave me when they phased out Riedell/Wilson/MK and went strictly with Ultima for figure skates since 99% of their fig skating business was more beginner/recreational). I like them but as far as freestyle blades go, I have no real comparison, the only other freestyle blades I had were Coronation Aces and that was years and years ago.

I don't feel like my jumps and spins are off, just my skating in general. I feel like I'm not getting good edges, flow, and speed. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations of my ability, but I feel like I should be a better skater after this much time and work. I am frustrated and it feels like I don't get better.

Maybe you should start ice dancing. You and Stormy both. Please. For my own amusement.

[Stormy]

About the K picks--my coach and most of the others at my rink are very, very much against these because he says they can lead to bad habits on toe jumps. I can see how that would be, although at the same time, the greater surface area *might* teach you not to jab the toepick into the ice on a jump. Or you can just do what I did--lose your big toenails (from other sports, not figure skating-related). The pain from toe jumps will teach you not to jab your toe real fast. My coach is def making the most out of this situation.


Maybe you should start ice dancing. You and Stormy both. Please. For my own amusement.

I tried ice dancing once and amused a lot of people with my efforts already. Maybe if Purple Sparkly does it I'll try it again. :)

That's interesting you say that about the K-Pick....I've found myself jabbing in with less force now because the picks feel more stable.

[Purple Sparkly]

Okay, I'll bite. I'll sign up for solo dance at Buckeye and AN and maybe sectionals. I'll be bronze solo dance at AN (I'm missing just swing dance from pre-bronze) but I think I have to skate Pre-Bronze at Buckeye unless I pass the swing dance before the deadline.

Just to note, I've already considered doing it, so now that somebody is kinda challenging me, I have to... I reserve the right to change my mind for financial reasons.

My hollow is 7/16. I tried 3/8 once a couple years ago and I went back to 7/16, but I don't really remember why. It's possible I didn't notice much of a difference.

[RachelSk8er]

Yesssssssssssss!! I'm so excited now.

You can probably skate whatever the heck you want at Buckeye, just ask. Usually there are very few dancers signing up so they want any warm bodies. I almost skated up and did the gold dance a few years ago just so they could hold the event, but then the other skater scratched.

[doubletoe]

I don't feel like my jumps and spins are off, just my skating in general. I feel like I'm not getting good edges, flow, and speed. Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations of my ability, but I feel like I should be a better skater after this much time and work. I am frustrated and it feels like I don't get better.

That is exactly why my coach started telling me about 6 months ago that I should switch from Gold Star (7' rocker) to Gold Seal (8' rocker). I thought she was just trying to help me feel better about my mediocre skating by blaming my equipment, but as soon as I switched, I noticed more stability and glide! In fact, this morning I re-took my Intermediate MIF and passed, and I definitely give some of the credit to these 8' blades.

[Kim to the Max]

in fact, this morning i re-took my intermediate mif and passed, and i definitely give some of the credit to these 8' blades.

congratulations!!!!!!!!!

[Purple Sparkly]

That is exactly why my coach started telling me about 6 months ago that I should switch from Gold Star (7' rocker) to Gold Seal (8' rocker). I thought she was just trying to help me feel better about my mediocre skating by blaming my equipment, but as soon as I switched, I noticed more stability and glide! In fact, this morning I re-took my Intermediate MIF and passed, and I definitely give some of the credit to these 8' blades.
Congrats on passing your test!

So, what I'm hearing is that I need to switch to Pattern 99 today and retest my Senior moves in two weeks? I may talk to my coach about my blades and hope she doesn't tell me that I just suck and need to work harder.

[GoSveta]

Lol. I know how that goes. I usually just go rogue and ask professionals about issues I'm having wiht stuff like blades etc. (or on the forums here) because I'm tired of the "Excuses, excuses... You're just not working hard enough." sermon that she on has repeat in her little record player.

[doubletoe]

congratulations!!!!!!!!!
Congrats on passing your test!

Thank you! :D The first words out of my mouth were, "Well, it's about time."

So, what I'm hearing is that I need to switch to Pattern 99 today and retest my Senior moves in two weeks? I may talk to my coach about my blades and hope she doesn't tell me that I just suck and need to work harder.

Exactly. ;)

[RachelSk8er]

That is exactly why my coach started telling me about 6 months ago that I should switch from Gold Star (7' rocker) to Gold Seal (8' rocker). I thought she was just trying to help me feel better about my mediocre skating by blaming my equipment, but as soon as I switched, I noticed more stability and glide! In fact, this morning I re-took my Intermediate MIF and passed, and I definitely give some of the credit to these 8' blades.

So maybe that's why my junior test has regressed the past 2 weeks...ha ha. Blame the Gold Stars!!!

My moves were so bad on my lesson last week my coach was just looking at me all puzzled and wondering what the hell was wrong with me. As of last Friday, I'm not testing at our session later this month and that means I have to wait until after the changes. But it also gives me the adult standard option (which my coach won't let me do but quite frankly I just want to be done with moves). Perhaps tonight/tomorrow morning will go well and he'll change his mind...apps are due tomorrow.

[Stormy]

So maybe that's why my junior test has regressed the past 2 weeks...ha ha. Blame the Gold Stars!!!

My moves were so bad on my lesson last week my coach was just looking at me all puzzled and wondering what the hell was wrong with me. As of last Friday, I'm not testing at our session later this month and that means I have to wait until after the changes. But it also gives me the adult standard option (which my coach won't let me do but quite frankly I just want to be done with moves). Perhaps tonight/tomorrow morning will go well and he'll change his mind...apps are due tomorrow.

I think you should just try it either way. One bad lesson doesn't mean you'll get a retry. I mean, other than being out the money, best case is you do pass and worst is you have to do the new moves, but you'll get feedback on what you need to work on.

[doubletoe]

So maybe that's why my junior test has regressed the past 2 weeks...ha ha. Blame the Gold Stars!!!

My moves were so bad on my lesson last week my coach was just looking at me all puzzled and wondering what the hell was wrong with me. As of last Friday, I'm not testing at our session later this month and that means I have to wait until after the changes. But it also gives me the adult standard option (which my coach won't let me do but quite frankly I just want to be done with moves). Perhaps tonight/tomorrow morning will go well and he'll change his mind...apps are due tomorrow.

Just do it! If your moves can go downhill in 2 weeks, they can also return to their previous glory in 2 weeks. As Stormy said, you've got nothing to lose by going for it (but a lot of time and money saved if you pass!)

[Purple Sparkly]

I told one of my coaches that I was considering some major equipment changes. She said she didn't really like the Phantom blades, anyway. She didn't seem overly enthusiastic about switching to Pattern 99, but didn't suggest anything different. I said that the shape is similar to Phantom that I may not have to make major adjustments. I said that I wasn't sure if the tapered blade on the Phantom was really helping me that much, she replied that I might notice its absence on the quicker, more advanced turns.

I am still wanting to switch. If I hate them, I can always go back to Phantom and it shouldn't be too difficult to resell an essentially brand new pair of blades. I am getting really excited about new equipment, especially boots. I am getting more frustrated with the fit of my current boots.

[Isk8NYC]

I switched from Gold Seals to Pattern 99's twice and hated the 99's each time. I found myself rocking off the heel too easily and spins weren't as easy to center. Someone pointed out that the two blades have different heights, with the Gold Seals being higher. So, I'd agree with your coach - you can make that switch work, but you really have to want it to work. Both blades are good, don't get me wrong. I just couldn't stand the 99's.

FWIW, I compared my circa-2009 Gold Seals to my niece's from the early 1980's and found that the top/bottom toe picks are larger on the newer model. Not as big as the top one on the Pattern 99's, though. That thing's huge!

[Purple Sparkly]

I am in Phantom now, so the switch from Phantom to Pattern 99 will feel different than the switch from Gold Seal to Pattern 99. Based on pictures alone, Phantom and Pattern 99 look more alike than Gold Seal and Pattern 99 or Gold Seal and Phantom. You may hate a change from Gold Seal to Phantom, also. I've always been averse to Pattern 99 for some unknown (and probably imaginary) reason, so it is strange that I am now seriously considering it.

I wasn't really concerned about the size of the toepicks, but that is interesting to note. The Pattern 99 toepick is closer to the Phantom toepick, but I think Pattern's is bigger. I wouldn't say that I *need* a big toepick. I'm not quite sure how much I even notice it.

I know someone that had a pair of Gold Seals for about 20 years with absolutely nothing left on them. She got a new pair and had some trouble adjusting. She swore they had changed the shape of the blade, but it could have been more that she was just used to a worn down blade.

[NoVa Sk8r]

I switched from Gold Seals to Pattern 99's twice and hated the 99's each time. I found myself rocking off the heel too easily and spins weren't as easy to center. Someone pointed out that the two blades have different heights, with the Gold Seals being higher. So, I'd agree with your coach - you can make that switch work, but you really have to want it to work. Both blades are good, don't get me wrong. I just couldn't stand the 99's.I am on Gold Seals, having switched from Pattern 99. I find spinning so much easier on the Gold Seals, which is why my coach suggested I switch.

Just to mention, there is not one rocker on a blade. There are several profiles (from the toe pick to the heel). For example:

Phantom (Radius): |----17"----|------7'-------|--8'--|
Pattern 99: ........ |--12"--|--27"--|--------8'--------|
Gold Seal: .......... |--12"--|-------------8'-----------|

I hope that makes a bit of sense; I tried t orepresent the drop in radii as accurately as possible. 8-)
My sharpener showed me this neat diagram with all the blade profiles. I should take a picture of it next time I see him.

[Isk8NYC]

You may hate a change from Gold Seal to Phantom, also. Good to know - thanks.


I know someone that had a pair of Gold Seals for about 20 years with absolutely nothing left on them. She got a new pair and had some trouble adjusting. She swore they had changed the shape of the blade, but it could have been more that she was just used to a worn down blade.
Probably a combination of both factors. I was shocked to see the toepick size difference; I figured the blades had stayed exactly the same over time, other than the k-pick and parabolic options.

I want to pull out my box o' blades and compare them all now.

Just to mention, there is not one rocker on a blade. There are several profiles (from the toe pick to the heel). For example:

Phantom (Radius): |----17"----|------7'-------|--8'--|
Pattern 99: ........ |--12"--|--27"--|--------8'--------|
Gold Seal: .......... |--12"--|-------------8'-----------|

I hope that makes a bit of sense; I tried t orepresent the drop in radii as accurately as possible. 8-)

My sharpener showed me this neat diagram with all the blade profiles. I should take a picture of it next time I see him.
I've always known that, but I've never seen it measured before. Is that Jim @ Hackensack? He's a stickler for precision.

That must be how the sharpeners are able to "restore" or "correct" the profile of a blade. Fascinating!

[Purple Sparkly]

Nova- I don't really think I have a problem on my Phantoms. I wonder if spinning will be even easier if I switch to Gold Seal.

I think I should go to a skate shop and trace all three blades (and maybe more, just for fun) and compare them. It is difficult to discern a difference just looking at pictures. I will definitely look at sample blades before making my purchase. This is probably still several months away, so I have more time to do research. I am thinking a trip to Chicago to go to Rainbo may be in order (especially for my boots).

Do we have anybody that has skated on both Pattern 99 and Phantom? It seems that we have every other switch but this one.

I just went back through the rest of the thread and I am now thinking about Phantom Special again. Is the rocker profile of the Phantom Special the same as the Phantom with the difference being dovetail vs. side honed?

[Purple Sparkly]

I just remembered that my coach did suggest I consider the Parabolic blades, but she didn't say if I should stick with Phantom or switch to a different model for the parabolic. I know my other coach hates the parabolic, but she had also been skating on regular Gold Seals for 40+ years.

[doubletoe]

I just remembered that my coach did suggest I consider the Parabolic blades, but she didn't say if I should stick with Phantom or switch to a different model for the parabolic. I know my other coach hates the parabolic, but she had also been skating on regular Gold Seals for 40+ years.

For what it's worth, I just got my first pair of Parabolics and noticed no difference. My blade guru thinks it's just a gimmick, and after measuring the difference in width between the middle of the blade and the ends with a digital caliper. . . I think I agree. The difference in width was some very small fraction of a millimeter! I wonder if some of the credit given to the parabolic feature is actually just the feel of a brand new rocker?

BTW, he also told me he skated on Pattern 99's for most of his competitive career, then switched to Gold Seals because his coach thought they would be better. He hated them! Since the rocker shape was so different, it really messed with the timing on his axel takeoff. He switched back. It was during this story that he pointed out the differences in rocker profile between Pattern 99/Phantom and Gold Seal/Gold Star. Up to then, I just thought it was all about rocker radius.