lutz confusion

[looplover]

I'm just starting to learn this one. I have the Sports Illustrated Petkevitch book and it says this:

"To initiate the lift-off, place the right toe pick in the ice and spring from the left leg."

But, how can you have your weight on both legs and go anywhere?! Or does that mean that your weight should in fact be on the right toe pick?

I like edge jumps better!

[MQSeries]

Maybe it was a typo, or the author had a different image in his mind than what that sentence implied, but you have to shift your weight over to the toe-picking leg (the right leg for CCW jumper) as it's placed into the ice. You spring up from the toe-picking leg.

[dbny]

You can't spring from a leg that isn't bent. You spring from the edge foot, with a toe assist. If you didn't need the energy stored in that bent knee to spring, then you could do the jump from a straight leg.

[looplover]

yikes that's one for jumping off the picking foot and one for jumping off the edge foot

I feel like if I jump off (spring off) the left foot I have no idea how my right tow is assisting? if I jump off hte left foot and plant my right toe in the ice, am I not just driving my left foot back into the ice?

This can't be as confusing as I'm making it out to be :frus:

[Clarice]

You jump off the edge foot, with a toe assist. The toe assists in a lutz the same way it does in a flip - you're just on a different takeoff edge.

[looplover]

oh crap.

Does that mean I've been doing the flip wrong too?

Cuz I transfer my weight to the picking foot and take off from the picking toe.

I'm usually not this dense, but I guess don't get the concept of toe assist at all. Normally I would torture my coach with this but I had to resked my lesson so I'm torturing you all online. I thought the picking foot drew you back with weight on that foot (that's how it assists) and then when you take off your weight is on the picking toe.

*wonders if one can be a figure skater with only edge jumps*

[Clarice]

Well, yeah... my coach says the same thing about drawing back with the picking foot. So I guess you do put some weight on it. Most of my weight is still on the edge foot, though. Both knees bend, so I guess in a way I'm jumping off both feet? I don't think of it that way, though. How do you do your toe loop? All the toe assists feel pretty much the same to me.

[Chico]

I was told to think of the lutz as a toe assisted loop.

Chico

[doubletoe]

Don't pay too much attention to the wording in the book. The fact is, you need to *feel* like you are transferring all of your weight to your picking toe, even though your skating foot is still on the ice until a fraction of a second before your picking foot leaves the ice. By getting your weight over your picking toe, you keep your weight over the landing side in the air, which is where it needs to be.

[vesperholly]

I was told to think of the lutz as a toe assisted loop.
I should hope not, because that would put you on an inside edge!

You should have most of your weight on the skating leg entering the jump. The toe assist action needs to be quick but decisive. The weight transfer should follow the toe pick - think of rolling back. There should NEVER be a pause from the time you put your pick in to the time you actually jump. The weight transfer cannot be a conscious action ("I am transferring weight now"), but one that happens as you are jumping.

A good exercise is to slowly skate backwards on the L foot, reach back, toe in, jump straight up in place, land on your R foot and hit a nice strong landing position.

[doubletoe]

True, there shouldn't be a pause between pick and takeoff. However, you do pull yourself back with the picking foot as soon as it goes into the ice, not just jump up off of it with your feet still far apart. Your picking foot goes into the ice and immediately pulls your skating foot back so that it is approaching the picking foot and both feet are under you as you actually leave the ice. So yes, you are technically jumping off both feet, but it should feel like you are vaulting off the picking foot.

And actually, a toe assisted loop would be a toeloop, which is where it got its name. There is no edge jump that is the equivalent of a lutz without a toe assist (thank goodness!).

[Isk8NYC]

And actually, a toe assisted loop would be a toeloop, which is where it got its name. There is no edge jump that is the equivalent of a lutz without a toe assist (thank goodness!).Quite right - imagine the injuries!

Here's a link to a great Lutz info page, including videos:
http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_recog/recog_j_lutz.htm

[looplover]

Thanks to all of you I think I get it, haha

Now...can I actually DO it? That's another story...

Thanks all!

[vesperholly]

True, there shouldn't be a pause between pick and takeoff. However, you do pull yourself back with the picking foot as soon as it goes into the ice, not just jump up off of it with your feet still far apart. Your picking foot goes into the ice and immediately pulls your skating foot back so that it is approaching the picking foot and both feet are under you as you actually leave the ice. So yes, you are technically jumping off both feet, but it should feel like you are vaulting off the picking foot.
Yes, good description.

And actually, a toe assisted loop would be a toeloop, which is where it got its name. There is no edge jump that is the equivalent of a lutz without a toe assist (thank goodness!).
Walleys! :evil:

[Isk8NYC]

Walleys! :evil:That was my first thought too, but after checking sk8stuff, I realized that CCW Walleys are done from right inside edges, not the left outside one so I thought I was wrong. I'm glad someone else thought about Walleys, too! Someone, at some time, must have done a LBO edge jump and lived to tell about it! LOL

[doubletoe]

That was my first thought too, but after checking sk8stuff, I realized that CCW Walleys are done from right inside edges, not the left outside one so I thought I was wrong. I'm glad someone else thought about Walleys, too! Someone, at some time, must have done a LBO edge jump and lived to tell about it! LOL

LOL! A walley with a toe assist is a toe walley! ;)

[2loop2loop]

There is no edge jump that is the equivalent of a lutz without a toe assist (thank goodness!).

There certainly is, it's called a toeless lutz.

John

[techskater]

I was just going to post about the toeless Lutz!!!

[doubletoe]

True, and fortunately, the toeless lutz is an unlisted jump and not in the normal repertoire, LOL!
But I'll pay $5 to anyone who posts a link to a video of him/herself doing one! :D