Bronze Moves Q

[Morgail]

I've been working on the backward power perimeter crossover pattern (wish there was a shorter way to say that!). I do the crossover, hold the back inside edge on a deeply-bent knee with the free foot behind and crossed under but not touching the ice, then (when I come back to the axis) I push and do an inside edge (with the free leg on the ice but with no weight on it), change to an outside edge, crossover, hold the inside edge with the free foot in the push-under position, etc.

I watched the MITF video of this pattern on the USFS website, and in the demonstration, the woman did not hold the inside edge immediately after the crossover with her free leg behind & crossed under. Instead, it looked like she completed the crossover and then just rode the edge on two feet? I couldn't tell exactly what she was doing, but I could tell that it was different from what I've been doing.

Anyway - how do you all do this? Holding the free leg in the push-under position off the ice, or something else?

Or am I overthinking this pattern? :lol:

[phoenix]

Well--without seeing it, I'd say it depends on HOW long you're holding it! There should be a rhythm to the steps, all about equal, so you don't want to sit on that one terribly long. But from your description, it sounds right.

You also have to remember that those videos are done for reference, and do not necessarily show what is passing standard. I watched that one, and IMO, it is done incorrectly, both because she doesn't hold the 2nd step long enough, and because she doesn't get onto an inside edge on the 3rd step. I would also say there's not enough power generated on the pushes, though for adult moves that's no longer in the language for primary focus.

That being said, I should also point out I'm not as familiar w/ what would pass on the adult track, I'm trained for standard track. I can guarantee that wouldn't pass on standard track--at least in my area.

[jazzpants]

Sounds like you're doing it right, but I think you should check with your coach to make sure you're doing it right. (We don't have a video of you, so we don't know how you really are doing it.)

One thing you should note (and it's mentioned on that website) is this:

These videos are only demonstrations of the moves in the field and should not be taken to represent the standard passing level for the moves.So don't take it as gospel that this is what going to pass on an adult standard moves test. Besides that, all skating clubs are gonna judge these things differently and pass and fail really comes down to who you get as your judge panel in the end. (And I know this b/c I've *HAD* the judge panel from HELL for the Bronze Moves test!!!) :evil:

[doubletoe]

I would recommend ordering the PSA's MIF video showing each of the moves on the standard track. You can find it here:
http://www.skatedvd.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=441111DVD&Category_Code=Instructional

[techskater]

I watched the MITF video of this pattern on the USFS website, and in the demonstration, the woman did not hold the inside edge immediately after the crossover with her free leg behind & crossed under. Instead, it looked like she completed the crossover and then just rode the edge on two feet? I couldn't tell exactly what she was doing, but I could tell that it was different from what I've been doing.

Anyway - how do you all do this? Holding the free leg in the push-under position off the ice, or something else?

Or am I overthinking this pattern? :lol:

Best to learn this correctly as you will see this pattern again in Intermediate (with power 3's on the end pattern) and Novice (with running 3's on the end).

The timing has to be even and as my coach put it, "You can't perch on the transition" meaning that you need to get your butt back to center, so the 2 foot transition, and crossover again quickly. I was taught to hold the back inside edge and then PUSH onto the and through the transition as it guarantees you get 3 pushes per side then. I can't comment unless I can see it, though, so if you have a coach have him/her look at it. Good luck!

[Morgail]

Thanks!
What I'm doing sounds the same as what techskater described.

My coach has emphasized keeping the lobes the same size, keeping the axis, but also making sure to really "get" the correct edges. So, I'm definitely holding the 2nd step (the push under), and getting onto an inside edge for the 3rd.

doubletoe-Thanks for the link to the videos. Something for me to hint about for Christmas:)

jazzpants - sorry you had the hellish judge panel. 8O Hoping I never run into them!

[jazzpants]

jazzpants - sorry you had the hellish judge panel. 8O Hoping I never run into them!I should clarify that 1) they were just hellish b/c they have tougher scoring standards than some of the other judges I've had and 2) my coaches did admit that I had a very tough judging panel! 8O But all in all, they are VERY FAIR for the most part!!!

No worries in the end -- as you see in my sig, I did finally passed those pesky Bronze Moves (and matching FS) test! And given what you've written, it "sounds like" you and your coach are on the right track.

The only other suggestion I have for you is to tape yourself doing these moves to see for yourself what you look like doing those moves. (Yeah, I know. I hate looking at myself on video, but it does really help to step back and look at things from a clinical, neutral point of view.)

[mikawendy]

Best to learn this correctly as you will see this pattern again in Intermediate (with power 3's on the end pattern) and Novice (with running 3's on the end).


Yes, and I've seen skaters working on their Intermediate or Novice moves who can do the turns at the end pattern nicely but who do the back perimeter power crossovers atrociously, stepping down to the inside edge way too early and getting way off pattern as a result!!

[techskater]

Yes, and I've seen skaters working on their Intermediate or Novice moves who can do the turns at the end pattern nicely but who do the back perimeter power crossovers atrociously, stepping down to the inside edge way too early and getting way off pattern as a result!!
Yep, my coach was very specific on the Intermediate what she wanted to see on the perimeter portion of the move and is even MORE specific working on the Novice moves.

[dbny]

I've been working on the backward power perimeter crossover pattern (wish there was a shorter way to say that!).

How about B Power XO's?


I do the crossover, hold the back inside edge on a deeply-bent knee with the free foot behind and crossed under but not touching the ice, then (when I come back to the axis) I push and do an inside edge (with the free leg on the ice but with no weight on it), change to an outside edge, crossover, hold the inside edge with the free foot in the push-under position, etc.

On the PSA MIF videos, the timing is to hold the BI edge after the XO (the first edge of each lobe), not the XO BI edge itself, but I know of at least one testing venue where the judges expect the timing you have described.