Doing the Salchow

[ouijaouija]

Hi, my last lesson, my coach said maybe I should try the salchow!

So anyway, yesterday I had my first session of trying to do them, I did a couple of bad ones, but at least they are 'officialy' salchows. I did two salchows that 'felt' good, if you know what I mean?

I do them from a three turn, but yes, its harder than it looks!

I found that if I went into it faster I could get more jump and rotation from it...

So anyway, a girl comes on, and starts doing them with ease and after that I kept falling over pretty badly, and mashing up the ice. I stopped.

But please, any tips on them? I will be back on the ice on Friday ,I will conquer it I must!

==

But in regards to what I see, the ones who can do salchows can do better skills than me, as illustrated in their warm up, they do great edge work, stuff that I haven't got...

[Team Arthritis]

wowcows are lots of fun and prone to going wildly out of control. lots of stuff to SalChows. One thing you may not know is that there are beginner Sals - where you swing around the three, and advanced Sals - where you stop rotation after the 3, get your weight right over the skating foot and then quickly scoop the takeoff foot to get a block off the edge and use that to jump from. Still working on the transition to the big kid sals:frus:

For me, the toughest thing in Sals, well skating in general, is staying strong and tight in one leg/ side of the body, while being relaxed in the other. So best practice for me is LFO3 with a strong check while just wiggling and relaxing the R (free) leg on LBI edge glide. HAve lots of fun
Lyle
P.S. seeing your free foot at eye level in the middle of your sal is a bad thing :giveup:

[flippet]

There's a certain rhythm to the sal, and you need to find it to do them well. Whipping into them won't find it. During the three-turn, count a beat to yourself--forward edge, 1-2-3, backward edge, 1-2-3, SCOOP! and draw your free knee straight up while pulling your arms in and launching off your deeply bent skating knee.

Don't rush it. Drawing it out really helps when you're learning it. Only when you've got it down well should you start speeding things up--and you probably won't even really need to do that, it will come naturally.

[flo]

I agree that the rhythm is really important. It's one of my favorites, and the doubles are really fun. I think what helped me is that when I first learned the salchow my coach spent a great deal of time on the three turn. I would hold the three as long as possible, and then jump. I tell the kids I teach to make sure that you are in control of the three and you control the jump, and not let the jump control you! This helps avoid a swingy jump.
Have fun.

[Team Arthritis]

During the three-turn, count a beat to yourself--forward edge, 1-2-3, backward edge, 1-2-3, SCOOP! .

OK everybody what do you say for your timer for the Sal?? When my wife and I try to do these side by side we yell out "I Like Seven UP". For some reason I can't get it right unless I say it outloud.
Lyle

[Raye]

One-two (three-turn) Buckle my shoe (jump on shoe).

[Skate@Delaware]

I don't really say anything, (because I'd get too distracted) but I know when I rush it, just as I know when it's just right (which is becoming more and more, yay!).

I do 3-turn drills, where I have to do tons of them and hold that back edge forever...it's hard!

[doubletoe]

I think, "Leeeft, Right, down-up!"
The "Leeeft" is the entrance to the 3-turn, where the weight needs to be over the left side of the body. "Right" is the 3-turn exit, where I need to get the weight over the right side, then bend and spring up.

[Isk8NYC]

P.S. seeing your free foot at eye level in the middle of your sal is a bad thing :giveup:I swear, you must drink before skating! If your wife isn't emasculating you practing pairs ... ROTFLOL!

I was practicing this today with my usual "scoop" the free leg around to the front. The woman who was coaching me had me try just bringing the knee to the front instead. (Since my foot's attached, it comes along, too.) I liked the change; it makes the jump feel more controlled and less "loopy." (Unless, of course, I've been hanging out with Lyle! LOL)

Lyle - I'm not picking on you. I love the funny stories and "tips."

[Morgail]

I just think "wait wait wait!" or "hold hold hold!" in my head to make myself hold the inside edge a little longer.

I've found that holding the inside edge coming out the 3-turn has done wonders for my salchow - I get more height and don't feel like I'm about to wrench my ankle out of my boot when I take off 8O . I can't tell you how many ankle-twistings I had doing the swingy-type salchows before my coach saw them and made me do the pause & scoop method.

[Skate@Delaware]

My coach just recently had me switch from "kneeing" the salchow to scooping it. It's been interesting, because if I don't hold back I end up over-rotating by 1/4 to 1/2! My coach gets excited when that happens...I swear sometimes my coach is :twisted: ....and she still thinks I never hold the second half of the 3-turn loooooong enough :frus:, hence the drills.

I think it's hilarious that last year I couldn't do this jump very well at all...and the year before it was my stumbling block!!!

[sk8_4fun]

I had a first go at a salchow today lol, Not easy but I can't wait to have another go. I shall be practicing the jump bit in my kitchen:giveup:

[techskater]

...I swear sometimes my coach is :twisted: ....and she still thinks I never hold the second half of the 3-turn loooooong enough :frus:, hence the drills.



Have you seen kids doing 3 sals? They hold that back edge FOREVER at least half the distance of the rink. Having watched that and figured out how and the mechanics and timing when you hold it longer has made my 2sal much better.

[Skate@Delaware]

Have you seen kids doing 3 sals? They hold that back edge FOREVER at least half the distance of the rink. Having watched that and figured out how and the mechanics and timing when you hold it longer has made my 2sal much better.
Nope!!! The kids at my rink zip through that back edge as if they were late for supper!!! Then they wonder why they can't do it right. There are maybe 3-4 girls that can do them un-rushed and correctly (the rest are doing the beginner salchows)...I really need to just glide backwards and then jump it, although I think it would be such a flutz and so entertaining! 8O

[techskater]

S@D- No triples, then, I presume. One day we got off after two hours and the Novice-Seniors started skating their advanced FS class (taught by their jump coach) and every single one of them was just holding, holding, holding before the double and triple sal. I was giving their coach crap about it the next day and said "nothing like telegraphing jumps". His response was something like YOU do a triple then!

[skatingdoris]

The salchow has always been my best jump but recently it has been rubbish:(

My coach has said that it has gone all 'shouldery', i.e. that i'm trying to get the rotation from my right shoulder, which is very far in front of the rest of me - very bad!!

so he has me just doing the three turn and holding the inside edge with my shoulder checked right back as far as i can and also a very strange exercise involving performing the jump from backwards inside edges - left, right, left jump! Tis very weird feeling, but has certainly helped to get me using my left hip to make the rotation.

hopefully nice big salchow will be back soon.

[Skate@Delaware]

S@D- No triples, then, I presume. One day we got off after two hours and the Novice-Seniors started skating their advanced FS class (taught by their jump coach) and every single one of them was just holding, holding, holding before the double and triple sal. I was giving their coach crap about it the next day and said "nothing like telegraphing jumps". His response was something like YOU do a triple then!
No, we only have 3 girls at my rink that can do doubles. That's out of about 50 skaters...we are "mostly" a recreational rink and not that serious in the training aspect of things at times. We have no novice/senior skaters (but we still have the "EEEK" factor).

It's interesting to be involved in the evolution of a skating rink...I've been skating there almost from it's opening and things seem so slow to develop (almost as slow as my salchow!!!).

Here's a question for you guys: When you are scooping your free foot through, is your toe pointed which way? Up, out? Then, once you've scooped your free leg to the front and you've rotated your jump, do you worry much about your other leg's position or do you just let it go where it goes?

One last question, I've been playing around with over-rotating this jump (with my coach's permission and perverse excitement)...how do you get enough rotation for a double? I can over-rotate by 1/4 to 1/2 right now and I'm trying to push a bit more but seem to be stuck.

[Mrs Redboots]

My salchow is dreadful! On a good day, I get 1/2 rotation off-ice; on a bad day, either 1/4 or, worst of all, I spin round on the ice and then hop backwards!

I remember once saying to my daughter, who was then skating, that her spin had come on nicely - oops, she was doing a salchow! :oops: All goes to show....

[techskater]

Here's a question for you guys: When you are scooping your free foot through, is your toe pointed which way? Up, out? Then, once you've scooped your free leg to the front and you've rotated your jump, do you worry much about your other leg's position or do you just let it go where it goes?

One last question, I've been playing around with over-rotating this jump (with my coach's permission and perverse excitement)...how do you get enough rotation for a double? I can over-rotate by 1/4 to 1/2 right now and I'm trying to push a bit more but seem to be stuck.

It points IN toward the skating leg. This allows the double to fully rotate for me and allows me to lasnd on that toe pick.
Yes, I worry about where my free leg is once the weight transfer happens. If it is disorganized in the air, my free leg will tap down on the landing of the double. It's about the take off being organized, the upper body being organized, and the free leg coming through and then over to become the landing leg.
To get full rotation on the double, it's about the take off more than anything. If you get a great take off with the free foot all the way stepped up and over (like a great Axel) and then stay organized and tight in the air, the jump is just easy.
Our rink was the same way. It's about 7 years old and we are just now getting our kids who started when the rink opened to the elite levels. We've had some good coaches with good pedigrees move in the last couple years.

[Skate@Delaware]

Thanks, techskater!!!

Our rink is now 5 years old. We don't have any big-name coaches...(well we did for a short time-Olympic level, but they "left" :?? and that's all I can say about that). Most of our girls don't test or compete. :( They skate in the shows and play.

[russiet]

For the benefit of a "what not to do" discussion, here's a recent video of Sals the first week (late September this year) I started trying them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JMIvkEVDY

Running commentary by CFP with our maintainence man at the arena.

Since this video was taken, the Sals haven't gotten too much better, in fact some days definetly worse.

I'm not too discouraged....I remember learning the waltz jump and how long it took me to get a natural timing for that. I'm thinking about 500 Salchows from now they might look OK.

Have some one video you.

[techskater]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dn1sIbby0M&mode=related&search=

This is a nice one with a good point "in" on the take off and nice organization in the air

[Skate@Delaware]

Thanks for the vid, techskater! I might play around with this next week...

[flo]

I also like holding the second lobe of the three. My count is one two... jump.

[Team Arthritis]

I swear, you must drink before skating! If your wife isn't emasculating you practing pairs ... ROTFLOL!

No I don't need to resort to drink - I come by this remarkable talent naturally! Now as for the latter, well lets just admit that the boys are in constant danger: head banged in the between the legs pullthrough, kneed trying an axel lift, spiked during a little stag lift and I still worry about those side by side spins being too close!8O

Glad you enjoy
Lyle

[Isk8NYC]

My coach just recently had me switch from "kneeing" the salchow to scooping it.I've been thinking and playing with this jump - my absolute LEAST favorite jump. I could never understand how to control this jump.

My private students have already learned the Salchow, so I've been focusing on Loops, Flips, and spins. This year, I'm teaching a group that needs to master the Salchow, so I took a lesson on it from our Director. The insight was tremendous, and I've concluded that kneeing it when you first learn the Salchow would keep you from swinging around too much and spinning on the ice before you jump. It also keeps your free hip from opening up too much. Later, once you're in control of the jump, the scoop helps you rotate faster and stronger, which is probably the tie-in to doubles.

Well, we don't do waltz jumps with entry skids, yet we use them for double axels. I guess it's the same idea.

[looplover]

working on waltz jumps incessantly helped me get the salchow right...finally! For waltz jumps I had been jumping in to the circle rather than out of the circle (and jumping out causes me to land right where I need to be). So I learned to jump out, also learned to hold the entrance edge.

so both of those things have given me a pretty decent sal, plus the strong check after the three.

[aussieskater]

No I don't need to resort to drink - I come by this remarkable talent naturally! Now as for the latter, well lets just admit that the boys are in constant danger: head banged in the between the legs pullthrough, kneed trying an axel lift, spiked during a little stag lift and I still worry about those side by side spins being too close!8O

Glad you enjoy
Lyle

Lyle, sounds like you need a cricket box there! 8O :)

[Team Arthritis]

Lyle, sounds like you need a cricket box there! 8O :)
I just love the differences in slang around the world! What's that saying - England and America are 2 nations with a common past seperated by a common language.

I did want to try an amored personel carrier once but it makes the sitspin a little tough:oops:
Lyle