What are judges looking for?

[badaxel]

Okay, so I've watched my Halloween Classic DVD so many times that I've almost memorized the other programs. I just really cannot seem to figure out the judges' placements. I'm not just talking about my own placement, but the whole thing. The nearest I can figure is that we got ranked by how close we came to landing an axel. Is that right? It also seems like it is better to do a basic spin with more revolutions in one position than to do a harder spin with more positions. I feel like I spent a lot of time focusing on adding harder moves and spins, and instead I should have just tried to make what I can do well look better. Anyone have any insight/ advice? Thanks!

[techskater]

Absolutely on the make what you CAN do look better instead of trying to do harder stuff is the way to go. My training partner fell into a nest of judges at ANs one year and they told her that they WANT to see you do well and they WANT to give you a good score but in order to do so, you have to give them something to work with. A well-executed Lutz-loop versus a crappy Axel attempt will give the judges something to work with. Just my $0.02...

[doubletoe]

Yes, it's hard to believe, but judges almost always give you a lot more credit for doing something easy and doing it well than doing something difficult and barely getting through it.
Also, as more and more of them get used to judging under the new system, they will probably apply the same standards even when juding under 6.0. For example, you'll be expected to do at least 2 full revolutions in position for any spin position to count, as well as at least 3-4 revolutions on each foot if it's a change foot spin. Also, an under-rotated axel (even if it looks fully rotated to the casual observer) will be worth less than any fully rotated 1-revolution jump.

[Debbie S]

For example, you'll be expected to do at least 2 full revolutions in position for any spin position to count, as well as at least 3-4 revolutions on each foot if it's a change foot spin. I think these rules have always been in effect under 6.0, right? :?? Anyway, I agree with what's been said here - better to do things well than try something complicated and mess up. I've done the latter a few times and my placement always suffered b/c of it.

Badaxel, I watched most of your event and from what I saw, I think the judges put a lot of emphasis on speed, power, jump height, confidence, etc. At least 3 of the skaters in your group began skating when they were kids. One of the skaters had jumps through double flip when she stopped. Another skater is working on Junior MIF. It was a really tough field. Also, I think there were some deductions for WBP violations, so that may have skewed the final placements.

Then again, I'm still trying to figure out judging myself - lol - so I probably don't have much to offer. I watched the video of my event and the higher-placing skaters all had good flow, carriage, knee bend, power, and got good height on their jumps (which included lutz combos). I also saw quite a few change-foot spins - even a back camel-back sit, which you don't usually see in Bronze. Interestingly, one of the skaters in my event did 2 footwork sequences, which is technically a rule violation (max is 1) - if she got a deduction, that would explain her placement, b/c otherwise, I found that confusing.

[FrankR]

Interestingly, one of the skaters in my event did 2 footwork sequences, which is technically a rule violation (max is 1) - if she got a deduction, that would explain her placement, b/c otherwise, I found that confusing.

Hi there,

Actually I'm not sure this is really the case. It was my understanding that under the NJS, that the first step or spiral sequence would count toward the total element score. If another step or spiral sequence takes place later in the program, then that sequence would be counted as part of the transitions score in the program component scores. So it's not that you're not allowed to do more than one step sequence. You can still do more than one step sequence or spiral sequence in a program. At least that's how I interpreted the rule. I'm not sure if that's correct though.

[NoVa Sk8r]

Actually I'm not sure this is really the case. It was my understanding that under the NJS, that the first step or spiral sequence would count toward the total element score. If another step or spiral sequence takes place later in the program, then that sequence would be counted as part of the transitions score in the program component scores. So it's not that you're not allowed to do more than one step sequence. You can still do more than one step sequence or spiral sequence in a program. At least that's how I interpreted the rule. I'm not sure if that's correct though.Her event was not judged under NJS.
For masters, gold, silver, and brozne levels, the WBP requirements (http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/2007-%20Comp.%20Chart%20--%20Adult%20Singles%20(v4).pdf) state that there is a max of 1 step sequence. However, the rule also states: "Additional moves-in-the-field, spiral and step sequences will not be counted as a step sequence but will be counted as transitions and marked as such."
This wording is (intentionally?) missing from the bronze WBP, but I suspect that that competitor in bronze might have been treated this way.

[mikawendy]

And it depends on what was in the step sequence. There's something in the rule book or other documentation somewhere that says that mainly crossovers is not a step sequence. (However, I didn't get to watch any of that event except the last skater because I was late in the skate order....:twisted: so I didn't see the two step sequences.)

[doubletoe]

My guess is that the second footwork sequence was just counted as additional connecting moves, and there was no deduction. Did she perhaps do fewer jumps than other skaters, or have less height and/or weaker landings on her jumps? How about spins? Weaker positions or maybe poor speed and centering? It could also have been overall speed and edge quality throughout the program that put her behind other skaters, even if her spins and jumps were good. Lack of speed was my problem once when I was in Bronze and I couldn't figure out why I didn't place higher until my coach told me.

[jazzpants]

According to this year's rule book for just about all the Adult FS levels under the WBP section...

A maximum of one (1) step sequence (i.e. circular, straight line, serpentine, spiral) utilizing the full ice surface. Additional moves in the field, spiral sequences and step sequences will not be counted as a step sequence but will be counted in the free skate as transitions and marked as such.

Steps: The skaters have complete freedom to select the kinds of step sequences they intend to execute. Jumps may also be included in the step sequences; however, the step sequences must fully utilize the ice surface. Step sequences that are too short and barely visible cannot be considered as meeting the requirements of a step sequence, but additional step sequences connecting the various elements are at the discretion of the skater. Turns and steps must be balanced in their distribution throughout the sequence.

Moves in the field: This is a sequence of movements, which must include such movements as turns, spirals, arabesques, spread eagles, Ina Bauers and flowing moves with strong edges, which can be connected with linking steps and footwork. Moves in the field will be judged as transitions rather than as separate elements.
(Thank goodness this year I went and bought the CD version of the USFSA rulebook! I like the fact that it's in Adobe Acrobat since I have the "Search" features... ;) )