Blades Blunting Incredibly Quickly [Archive]

SkatingOnClouds

10-22-2006, 02:28 AM

Before I fitted my new/old Phantoms, I got them sharpened. I told the sharpener SHARP!!! in my note, that that's how they came back: definitely dangerously sharp, yet very smooth and no problems stopping, spinning or anything.
Less than 6 weeks (probably only 4 weeks max), and they are blunt. I notice I am slipping off the edge a lot, and when I ran my fingers over them today, they feel really dull and seem to me to need sharpening again.

Given that I skate a maximum of 7 hours a week, that seems very quick to be so blunt. I always wear guards off ice, and store them in their soakers between skates. I cannot understand how such sharp blades could be so blunt so quickly.

Our ice has been very wet lately, as it has been very warm. A couple of times the ice has been quite dirty when it has refrozen after hot weather.
Is that enough to do it, do you think, or could something else be happening here?

I have to send my skates away to be sharpened, which is expensive and I always have to miss a session til they get back, so I really don't want to have to send them away more often than necessary.

Rusty Blades

10-22-2006, 02:55 AM

A couple of times the ice has been quite dirty when it has refrozen after hot weather.

Fersure! Next to walking without guards, that's probably the fastest way to dull blades.

Also, the smaller the radius of hollow, the quicker the blades will loose their bite because the smaller ROH has a thinner "sharper" edge.

Casey

10-22-2006, 03:37 AM

Also, the smaller the radius of hollow, the quicker the blades will loose their bite because the smaller ROH has a thinner "sharper" edge.
My fitter said the same thing, but my experience indicates otherwise...maybe it's just that as the smaller ROH dulls it becomes more equivalent to a slightly lower ROH which I'm comfortable enough with but the sharper I get them, the longer they seem to last. Regardless of if I skate every day or twice a month, they seem to blunt equally quickly though, which I thought a bit strange but I think maybe the edges corrode if exposed to air. That's usually around 6 weeks for me. A quick pass of the handheld honing stone is usually enough to keep me happy for another few weeks as long as I'm careful about it and don't flatten the ROH (meaning you have to take more off the middle because the outer is what wears down with skating, on my old blades when I first started hand-sharpening them I would focus too much on getting the edges sharp and would slowly turn a 5/16" ROH into a 7/16" ROH over time (which felt sharper to me for less and less time as the ROH got bigger also...).

I would be curious to hear your results if you carried a bit of wax along with you and smeared some over the blade edge every time you skated - that would help prevent at least corrosion from air contact if that is indeed a factor.

DallasSkater

10-22-2006, 08:42 AM

I seem to be dulling quicker now too. Seems to only last a week in really good shape but can get a second week without sliding out of the edge. My thought about this is it seems to depend on what I have been doing on the ice. I think since I am really jumping alot lately that it wears them down quicker. Thankfully we have a sharpener guy there all the time and a few coaches that even do it on the side. But it does get expensive to have to keep doing so often. Thinking if I upgrade my blade it might help too.

Interesting to hear about hollow depth...I seem to have really deep ones and wonder now if that is a problem

Also wondering about the sharpening tool Casey is talking about. I am afraid to ruin my blades from my inexperience..is it hard to use? Fool proof?

phoenix

10-22-2006, 08:51 AM

4-6 weeks sounds about right for sharpening.....that's about what I do & I skate about the same hours per week as you.

For whatever reason though, this past year I've been doing them less often; I don't seem to be bothered as much when they start to get a little dull. Whatever--saves me money anyhow!

techskater

10-22-2006, 09:56 AM

Approximately 40 hours is when you'll notice it. If it's been 6 weeks and you skate 7 hours per week, it's about time.

flippet

10-22-2006, 10:31 AM

Thinking if I upgrade my blade it might help too.

Also wondering about the sharpening tool Casey is talking about. I am afraid to ruin my blades from my inexperience..is it hard to use? Fool proof?

If you have a lower-level blade, the steel probably isn't as hard, so it's definitely a factor.

As for a hand-held sharpener--the skill required depends on what you've got. I think (could be wrong) that Casey uses a plain honing stone, not a 'branded' device. That takes a bit more skill, afaik. I've used a Pro-Filer, and I've found it to be pretty easy. (Not *completely* idiot-proof, you do need to pay attention and trust yourself, but it's certainly not difficult.) The instructions say to put masking tape along your blades to 'fill' any gaps so it fits snugly, but I hated doing that way, so I forgo the tape. I love my sharpenings, but I pay attention, and am careful to watch what I'm doing. I think it depends on how much you trust yourself to tinker with anything, and how detail-oriented you are. (i.e., when you paint a room, do you take pains to mask off your woodwork or use a straightedge to get a clean line, or do you just slap the paint on there, figuring that either you'll wipe any mistakes off later, or that a little smudge here and there just doesn't matter that much? If you're the first type, using a hand-held sharpener should be a breeze.)

Rusty Blades

10-22-2006, 11:45 AM

Being in the design and engineering business (and with machine shop experience) I would NOT use any tool on you blades that did not use a rigid cutter/stone to maintain the ROH. I looked at all the hand held sharpeners on the market last winter and the Pro Filer is the only one that will maintain the ROH. (I haven't bought one because they are ot available in my ROH)

Even mild steel will not corrode (rust) from contact with the air in a short period of time (unless the ocean breeze blows through your house!) The higher chromium steel used for skate blades is fairly immune to rust (compared to mild steel). Drying your blades after skating will prvent rust. If you are seeing rust spots along the edge frequently, carry a small oily rag in a plastic bag and wipe your blades after drying.

Casey

10-22-2006, 01:55 PM

As for a hand-held sharpener--the skill required depends on what you've got. I think (could be wrong) that Casey uses a plain honing stone, not a 'branded' device. That takes a bit more skill, afaik.
That's correct. I trust my hands holding it in the right position more than a contraption...but that's just me. It's certainly not foolproof.

However, it doesn't take off much metal at all so even if you're doing it all wrong, it won't make that much of a difference and it's nothing a quick professional sharpening won't correct later. A few bad hand sharpenings might wear down your ROH to a shallower depth, but it's not going to change your rocker.

This is what I use (this picture is about actual size on my screen...):
http://www.skatedoctor.co.uk/Honing%20Stone.jpg

SkatingOnClouds

10-23-2006, 03:06 AM

Award

10-23-2006, 08:10 PM

Our ice has been very wet lately, as it has been very warm. A couple of times the ice has been quite dirty when it has refrozen after hot weather.
Is that enough to do it, do you think, or could something else be happening here?

Yes, that's more than enough to do it. If the ice is clean, the sharpness can last for ages. And many 'good' rinks will not allow people to wear normal shoes etc on the ice.

But there are also rinks out there that are very poorly run, where even the rink staff wear their shoes on the rink. The sand particles that fall off the soles of shoes can dull the blades - no problem at all.

Casey

10-23-2006, 11:03 PM

But there are also rinks out there that are very poorly run, where even the rink staff wear their shoes on the rink. The sand particles that fall off the soles of shoes can dull the blades - no problem at all.
Oh, it could be worse. One of my rinks is sand under the ice, and it hasn't been redone in 17 years. Apparently the ice slowly shifts over time and the sand forms ridges...one time one of them got too close to the surface and suddenly I notice gravelly stuff on the ice surface. If that weren't bad enough, after I had the rink management cover it up and clean up the bit of gravel that had scattered about, a couple little kids moved the covering and started kicking away at it to make it worse. :roll: Seems alright now though...

Isk8NYC

10-24-2006, 07:40 AM

Is this indoor or outdoor ice? Outdoor ice skating requires more frequent sharpening. The air carries dirt, leaves, and other junk that lands on the ice and becomes part of the surface, dulling your blades quickly.

Outdoor ice is "slower" to skate on, so you really have to make an effort to do things quickly. It's very good for muscle and stamina building, though.

I use the same stone as Casey. A few quick swipes when I feel edges slipping and I'm okay for the rest of the session. Just to tide me over until my next sharpening. I keep it in my pocket to sharpen my students' rentals. They always skate better once they have some edges.

Isk8NYC

10-24-2006, 07:43 AM

Given that my blades are Phantoms, they shouldn't be low quality steel. I never felt my old Phantoms went off this quickly.

I am wondering whether I have them mounted quite right. Although they are identical vintage and size as my old ones, and I mounted them in the same holes, the right one just doesn't feel under my heel properly and sometimes kicks up a bit of snow on edges. I've never had problems slipping off edges before like I'm having now. Would incorrect mounting blunt them faster?Incorrect mounting would cause the blades to dull unevenly because you'd be using some edges more than others. For example, if they were mounted so you were mostly on your inside edges, those edges would wear more.

Just FYI to the casual reader: you can't always guarantee the reuse of holes when you change blades. In SkatingOnClouds' case, her new blades were identical to the old ones. Same brand, same model, and the sole plates/hole patterns were identical. If you change from Pattern 99 to Gold Seals, don't reuse the holes in the sole of your boot. Trust me, I know from experience that you'll warp the new blade and have great difficulty holding any edges.

AW1

10-25-2006, 02:58 AM

Is this indoor or outdoor ice?

Sorry but I really had a good chuckle over this comment. Although Tasmania is cold, there's nowhere in Australia we'd ever get outdoor ice!! Even when I went to the snow I was amazed that it was snowing, yet the river was running 8O

Isk8NYC

10-25-2006, 09:34 AM

Sorry but I really had a good chuckle over this comment. Although Tasmania is cold, there's nowhere in Australia we'd ever get outdoor ice!! Even when I went to the snow I was amazed that it was snowing, yet the river was running 8OI didn't know that! I worked for an australian bank once as a consultant and the expats were bemoaning their "eternal summer." They came here in the May/June (our summer), went back to the Jan/Feb aussie summer, and then were on their second tour in the US when we met.

I figured that, like the US, the weather varied across the country.

I could see indoor ice melting and refreezing, but not getting dirty without help from dirty shoes and water.

PreciseIce

10-25-2006, 11:47 AM

Could it also be ...

~ Jumps landing that it's landing on flat? Causing it to blunt too...

AW1

10-25-2006, 08:58 PM

I didn't know that! I worked for an australian bank once as a consultant and the expats were bemoaning their "eternal summer." They came here in the May/June (our summer), went back to the Jan/Feb aussie summer, and then were on their second tour in the US when we met.

I figured that, like the US, the weather varied across the country.

I could see indoor ice melting and refreezing, but not getting dirty without help from dirty shoes and water.

Oh yeah, Australia does have pretty varied temperatures between the north and south, but in general there's nowhere really that cold. We get snow in the highlands but only in the southern states (NSW, Victoria - Karen does it snow in Tasmania??) and you have to be at altitude. The best most parts of australia gets is a frost :lol: In my entire life I think they've only had snow in our state maybe twice and that's because it was at Stanthorpe which is the coldest part of our State!

SkatingOnClouds

10-26-2006, 03:11 AM

Yes it snows in Hobart, but mainly on the mountain. We did have the novelty of snow down to the beach last winter, but that was a once in 20 year occurence. I have heard the myths of people who skated on frozen lakes, but again, that was maybe 24 years ago. It just doesn't stay cold enough here. I always complain it gets cold enough without the compensation of snow. I wanna move to Vancouver! Or Christchurch New Zealand. (Not cos it snows, it just appeals to me).

The ice at our rink does get dirty, and I am not sure where it comes from. I think the rink may be laid on sand, I don't know though.

No flat of blade landings for me, all land on toe-picks or my butt, so it isn't that. It is weird, how quickly they've blunted. I think I'll get them sharpened again and see what happens.