Question about Coach?

[skating_babe11]

Hi everyone

My coach is a little upset because I asked her if it was ok that one of my old coach's came down and coached me a few lesson this friday because she was in town. This is just typical of my coach though - she is very protect and think she knows everything. She feels that we dont think she is good enough because we have to bring down other coaches. But that not the case my old coach just happened to be in town this weekend for her university graduationand i was chatting with her on msn and she agreed to to the rink and visit me. We are friends so i would like to see her before she goes back home and possibly get some lessons. I tryed to explain this to her but she still seem a little upset. I have decided to still keep to my decision but letting my old coach give me a few lesson.

But i was wondering what would you guys do in this situation?

[phoenix]

I'd do the same thing you're doing. You've done all you can, & there's no reason not to see (and work with) your old coach.

[slusher]

Your old coach can't coach you unless your current coach knows about it. And, your old coach can't even suggest coaching you because it would be soliciting. She can come visit you at the rink, you can chit chat, but she would violate the coach code of ethics if she coached you. She should know that too.

If you want to have occasional guest coaching from someone you have a great relationship with, that's wonderful, but the coaches have to have an agreement. Your old coach should call your new coach and make sure each knows where the other stands.

I personally hate this aspect of coaching, that skaters "belong" to coaches. What seems innocent can be acceptable with some coaches, and others get their panties in a huge knot over it.

[skating_babe11]

I was the one who asked my old coach to come down and give me a few lessons. And I did ask my current coach if it was alright because that would be the right thing to do. But still i just dont see why she has to be like that! :giveup:
Oh well .. i guess i will see how it goes on friday ;)

[doubletoe]

I think it's kind of like guys who don't like it if you're still friends with an ex-boyfriend. . . even if he lives out of town and you're really just friends. . .:roll:

[Chico]

This is a sensitive issue, especially for some coaches. My coach has always told me that she's open to me taking a lesson or two with someone else if I want to. Can't say that I have. If I did, I would be sure to let her know first and why I was interested. Sometimes we have guest coaches at my rink for example. I think you did right telling your coach about your old coach visit. Maybe you could ease her concerns by asking her to have coffee or something with you and your old coach for a bit. You like your new coach but your glad to see your old.

Chico

[samba]

My rink has very friendly coaches but I think this idea would go down like a lead balloon with them.

[kateskate]

In my experience coaches can be very funny about things like this. I wouldn't ever have a lesson with anyone else unless my coach suggested it themselves. But if you were open with your coach then there is nothing else you can do - but you may have to accept what they say.....

[phoenix]

I think this situation is a little different since this is an out of town coach just coming in for a visit. This coach is not a threat to the current coach. It's the same sort of thing as if she were going to a weekend camp somewhere--would the coach have a problem with that?

[kateskate]

I know some coaches who take exception to that too. One coach at our rink bans his pupils from going on other courses..

Ridiculous

[NickiT]

I must admit I think your coach is being a little unreasonable. It's not like you're planning on taking regular lessons with another resident coach after all, and you have done the decent thing by talking to her about it. I'd hope that if I were in the situation where my former coach of several years paid a visit, my current coach would be happy to let me take a lesson from her. Coaches are funny like that though. Anyway I hope you enjoy your lesson.

Nicki

[Isk8NYC]

I think in this situation, it's a bit of overreaction on the current coach's part. Obviously, s/he's a bit insecure and everyone knows that. When you told her about the visit, it probably would have been received better if you had "stroked" her a bit and downplayed the importance of the "lesson."

For example: "My old coach is visiting this week for her Graduation. S/he really wants to see what great progress I've made since she coached me last so we're going to have some fun together on Friday here at the rink." By not calling it a "lesson," you've taken away an insult or threat to your current coach.

A lot of our coaches "team coach" with others, mainly to provide coverage at competitions, but also to help the skaters with specialties. For example, one coach might focus on the choreography and flow of the program, another works on the jumps and spins.

I remember, as an adult competitor, that there was a tremendous amount of competition among coaches for students. Jealousy and poaching accusations abounded. I'm very lucky in that I don't really work in that environment as a coach today.

ETA: BTW, did you discuss this in person, on the phone, or via IM? The delivery method does make a difference.

[flippet]

Your old coach can't coach you unless your current coach knows about it. And, your old coach can't even suggest coaching you because it would be soliciting. She can come visit you at the rink, you can chit chat, but she would violate the coach code of ethics if she coached you. She should know that too.

If you want to have occasional guest coaching from someone you have a great relationship with, that's wonderful, but the coaches have to have an agreement. Your old coach should call your new coach and make sure each knows where the other stands.

I personally hate this aspect of coaching, that skaters "belong" to coaches. What seems innocent can be acceptable with some coaches, and others get their panties in a huge knot over it.


That, in my opinion, is ridiculous. As a paying customer, I simply wouldn't stand for it. If my current coach wanted to get her knickers in such a twist that she'd try to tell me I couldn't have a lesson (a single lesson!) with my old coach (especially if I'd taken the pains to be up-front about everything) I'd tell her that she just lost me as a student. Bye-bye, income from me.

But then, I'm an adult, and a bit of a b*tch at times, so there ya go. :twisted:

[skating_babe11]

ETA: BTW, did you discuss this in person, on the phone, or via IM? The delivery method does make a difference.

I talked to her on the phone since i havent been to the rink for the last few days because of my ankle.



Thanks everyone for your advise/opinions. I just wanted to see if thats what other people would do or what should i say if this ever happens again! Thanks!

[DallasSkater]

Skating babe: When I recently approached my coach about taking occasional lessons from other coaches it also met with a less than enthusiastic response. I ended up having to negotiate which coaches I could and could not approach which I found slightly offensive! When I mentioned that one of the my instructors from LTS helped me (for free) during a practice session, my coach just about had a kitten! She sited the coach "code" and basically stated that the helpful nature of the instructor was unethical solicitation. (I disagree totally as I was there and could see that this instructor just took pride in the fact that she had taught me the element I was working on and was attempting to briefly give feedback because she happened upon me).

I do not like that there is some coach code that disrespects my rights by making me "somebody's skater". I have to agree with flippet that I am the paying consumer and should be able to direct my coach (with respect) to what I want to pay for and what I will accept as assistance. I know that the other coach was innocent and felt like I had just "got her in trouble" for being kind to me. I have learned to just not discuss any other instructor I have in my classes with my coach. I think it is sad that I cannot discuss certain aspects of my skating with my own coach!

I think a lot of this is about the individual coach. I certainly understand that you would not want a student "stolen". But I think the approach to not losing students is to meet a student's need by good service and reasonable boundaries. I was able to reach a compromise with my coach and able to do that in a way that did validate her work with me. I did not like that it had to be a big deal.

I work in a profession that also has a strict code of ethics. My code is all about protecting the people we serve, not ourselves. I think it is interesting/offensive that a field would have codes like this.

Glad you were able to assert to your coach and that you will be able to take a lesson from the former coach. Good luck to you!

[sk8pics]

I suppose some of the coaches view it as lost income if you want to take a lesson or two with someone else. They may think, well, if you have the money and time for additional lessons, and I have the time, you should take them from me. Not saying I agree with that necessarily, but that's one thing.

My own coach is not a problem in this sense at all. I do have two other coaches that I take from regularly as well, though much less time. My primary coach put me together with them, in fact, when I needed more time than he could give, and it's worked out well. But all of my coaches get along and have complementary styles of teaching, so that is another good thing.

[Isk8NYC]

They spell it out in detail on the Professional Skaters Association website:

Professional Standards (http://www.skatepsa.com/Professional%20Standards.htm)

Code of Ethics (http://www.skatepsa.com/Code-Of-Ethics.htm)

This is the "agreement" most coaches agree to as part of their PSA membership. In addition, some rinks/clubs have professional agreements that lay down similar, sometimes even stricter, lines.

DallasSkater, I think you're right: rules should be mostly geared towards the customer, in this case the skater and his/her family. That IS the PSA's primary objective and they've outlined that in the first rule. The rules beyond that are to prevent a coaching free-for-all, where things get out of hand.

[Isk8NYC]

But all of my coaches get along and have complementary styles of teaching, so that is another good thing.That's a REALLY good point, though. I use different teaching methods and drills than other coaches. The toe-loop vs. toe-waltz jump is a good example of different teaching styles. (I don't teach the toe-waltz.)

In a situation where people don't get along, and don't complement each other, you're just setting the stage for conflict later on.

[DallasSkater]

sk8pics: I know you are right that a coach would have to be concerned about income and that should be respected. But I also made it clear to my coach that the impromptu lessons from others would be in addition to my regular lesson and only when she was not available and when I needed extra help. I do not always know when I would like extra help either so it is never really planned. I have not actually done it yet since I know it is a big deal! eeek.

Good point on why they are so protective though. I think it would be hard to make a living at coaching unless they have a base salary or something. I know my rink does not for the regular coaches. They speak of their resentment at the skate director for having a salary and the power to direct the request for a coach forms to herself in addition. I do think that is a set up for problems at a rink. Unless a student asks directly for a specific coach, the director can assign the coach to the student! Many brand new to skating do not understand they can pick.

Isk8nyc..thanks for providing the links. I was really curious on exactly what it said!

[Isk8NYC]

They speak of their resentment at the skate director for having a salary and the power to direct the request for a coach forms to herself in addition. I do think that is a set up for problems at a rink. Unless a student asks directly for a specific coach, the director can assign the coach to the student! Many brand new to skating do not understand they can pick.You're right: most of the new privates that come out of group lessons think they have to take from their current group coach. At our coaches meeting at the start of the season, our director specifically stated that group lessons do not mean you "own" the student.

Yet, most of our coaching staff "offers" their group lesson students/parents private lessons taught by (who else?) themselves. That approach works really well at securing lessons.

Our director isn't taking any new students herself; she does direct requests based on availability. For example, I'm one of the few Sunday afternoon instructors, so I often get those referrals. Generally, "cold call" newbies take less than a dozen private lessons, then changeover to groups to save money.

One last note about territorialism: we have a few coaches who speak another language. Whenever I get a new student, one coach in particular asks if the skater is from her/his birth country. Not that s/he out and out states "That should be my student!", but it is discomforting. (My standard reply is "Naaa. He's/She's Irish." The skater could be wearing a Sari and I'd say it, just to annoy him/her! LOL)

[flippet]

When I mentioned that one of the my instructors from LTS helped me (for free) during a practice session, my coach just about had a kitten! She sited the coach "code" and basically stated that the helpful nature of the instructor was unethical solicitation. (I disagree totally as I was there and could see that this instructor just took pride in the fact that she had taught me the element I was working on and was attempting to briefly give feedback because she happened upon me).


It's not just with coaches. I've happened upon coaches who have a conniption when they see adult skaters socializing and exchanging tips on their own time (i.e., not in a lesson, just practicing). I think that coaches who are used to teaching kids, and used to (and enjoy) being the 'sole authority' as it were, simply do not understand the nature of adult skating, in that we're not headed to the Olympics, and while many of us do take it seriously, and compete seriously, we're also in it for 'fun'---and 'fun' often involves feeling comraderie with other adult skaters.....which often involves sharing 'tips' such as --'hey, you're dropping your shoulder, try it like this'. It's simply the way adults interact. We're not going to be talking about the latest boyband on the ice, kwim? Also, I think that most adults don't see most of the information that a coach teaches as 'proprietary'--anyone can say 'bend your knees'. Yes--coaches have their preferred methods, but adults see the benefit of picking and choosing what works for them--because we feel we have the life experience to be able to decide these things, whereas a child perhaps wouldn't. Having a coach with a 'god complex' can be very offensive.

That said, I know that when I helped my friend on the ice (who was taking group lessons, but not private--neither was I), I would always say, 'but if your coach tells you to do it differently, then do it her way'.

I just know that in my group lessons, sometimes the other adults would be having trouble with something the coach was trying to show them--and I would explain it just a little bit differently, and suddenly they'd 'get it'...sometimes you just need a different perspective. No one should get their panties in a twist over that.


Honestly.....isn't that just what we're doing here on this forum? Exchanging hints and tips? Location shouldn't make any difference. It's what adults do--coaches need to realize that and accommodate for it. (That said, a student should be straight with her coach--open communication is what we're looking for, here.)

[Sonic]

Good post, flippet. I totally agree

We've recently all been involved in the discussion about 'adult skaters and limiations', but the way I see it is we also have a few advantages over kids.
One of these advantages being the maturity/dedication to do wider 'research' in addition to coaching.

If, for example, you're studying at university, of course you learn stuff in your lectures, BUT you could not do a degree without engaging in wider research - be it spending hours in the library, or liasing with fellow students.

In my book, skating is exactly the same. Of course my coaches are my primary sources of skating information, but this forum is also a great help, as are my friends at the rink.

Friends at the rink learning together don't always have the technical knowledge to advise each other, but for me, just being able to ask a friend 'Could you watch my flip and tell me what I'm doing with my free leg' or 'Does my spin entry still look wierd?' is a great help.

At the end of the date, coaches are PAID to teach us, and if we're doing extra work off our own backs to make their jobs easier, they should be pleased if anything!

S xxx

[Isk8NYC]

Since I play both sides of the fence, I agree with you. Extra practice, different perspectives, fresh eyes, are all important.

I find too many kids and adults only come for their lesson and then leave. I'm a huge believer in the social aspect of skating helping make people more comfortable with practicing.

The kids DO teach themselves/each other things, but it's usually wrong. Adults do their homework before teaching themselves or others, so that's a big advantage.

[skating_babe11]

So everything turned out ok (at least i think so). My old coach ended up getting caught up at work and was not able to make it. So im sure that made my current coach happy and she didnt seem mad when she came up to talk to me which is a good sign. So now i just have to heel my ankle and then everything will be back to normal! Thanks for your help everyone!