Lutz nightmare - psychological slump

[miraclegro]

Okay,

I know, i probably sound like a whiner. But, what is it that one day i can land a lutz and even a lutz loop, and say, for instance today, i am doing my back croosovers and i just , well, STOP. Chicken out. Doesn't feel right. Try again, and oh, phooey, same thing.

I know i've been battling a sciatic nerve thing, and i've gotten over a broken left ankle, but what is with this? Can someone tell me? It seems also like a timing thing. I will accept any and all tips. I am disgusted. Working on my Silver test program, and feel like i will fight and fight to get this blasted thing. When i get it, it is beautiful and has height. HELP!

[Hannahclear]

I've had a similar thing happen to me. It just takes a vacation? It's really frustrating when you are going through it.

What worked for me was intentionally thinking of NOTHING when I went into the jump entrance. For a while I thought "blank blank blank" and I progressed to just blanking out with no focus word. My lutz combo isn't always consistent now, but my lutz is.

[Sonic]

Hi whiner (only joking micralegro, you're not a whiner).

I think you can hit 'blank spots' with certain elements. It becomes a catch-22 - the more you worry, the bigger problem you have pulling it off, so the worry gets bigger still...

I know about 6 months ago I had a similar problem with spins. The other day ago, I was about to do the same thing with Loops - I was either falling or it was like I just couldn't take off. Here's what I did.

A) stopped doing them entirely for the rest of that session and worked on something else instead
B) on the next session did something a bit like what Hannah suggested. Instead of saying the word 'loop' in my head when preparing, I just said the word 'jump'. Once my subconscious was fooled that I was doing a 'jump' not a 'loop', they seemed to get better.

S xxx

[Clarice]

With the lutz, I do an exercise where you glide back on the entrance edge, then pick and jump, but don't rotate. Just land on two feet again, gliding backwards. When I focus just on the takeoff for awhile, usually I'm okay trying the jump again. Don't worry - you'll get it!

[NickiT]

It happens to me often with the lutz. I've been landing it for some years now and for the past two have had a lutz-loop in my programme, but for whatever reason, some days it just doesn't feel right. I know it's a head thing. When I'm confident and relaxed it's so easy to do, but if I'm unsure or hesitant, I just can't make myself do it. I kind of came to the conclusion that it's one jump I'm never going to feel totally comfortable with and that I must make myself do a few each time I skate. That way it becomes easier.

Nicki

[lovepairs]

This happens a lot with my lutz jump. All of a sudden it's gone, but each time it goes it takes less time to get it back. I'm pretty sure it's just a "head" thing. Doesn't really happen to me with any other jump--just the lutz.

[tidesong]

I get something similar ( i think?? ) with my salchow. When I practise double salchows, sometimes it gets really crazy and I start aborting jumps and or popping the entrances.

For me what eventually helped is concentrating on balancing on the entry edge, and also keeping my shoulders in a fairly level position to aid that balancing, otherwise it feels really scary. (last time I had problems with my hips and breaking at my waist too... so ummm whatever works for you...can be other stuff than shoulders)

Working from the single salchow sometimes helps too.

So perhaps if the balance issue isnt similar you can still try the half lutz first. (or the above suggestion about the no-rotation lutz just pick jump and land)

[TimDavidSkate]

I get into those funky days as well, dont kill yourself over it. There are days were my timing with my upper body is different than my lower. But I bet you when it is time for you to compete, you wont have troubles with it. Its only the down-times. :halo: Im very anal with the technique and timing, my left side should pass my right toe-pick/take-off, and when it doesnt and it reverts to my old-old technique I pop it. When I hone my blades properly Im ok too

Okay,
I know, i probably sound like a whiner. But, what is it that one day i can land a lutz and even a lutz loop, and say, for instance today, i am doing my back croosovers and i just , well, STOP. Chicken out. Doesn't feel right. Try again, and oh, phooey, same thing.
I know i've been battling a sciatic nerve thing, and i've gotten over a broken left ankle, but what is with this? Can someone tell me? It seems also like a timing thing. I will accept any and all tips. I am disgusted. Working on my Silver test program, and feel like i will fight and fight to get this blasted thing. When i get it, it is beautiful and has height. HELP!

[doubletoe]

It's true that it will come back and you shouldn't worry about it too much, but on the other hand, it's also good to have some fixes you can try when it disappears a day before your competition!

1. Mohawk-crossover entrance: You can do either a LFI mohawk and then cross L/R and pick, or you can do a RFI mohawk, R/L cross, L/R cross, then pick.

2. Wall exercise: To make sure you are positioned correctly as you pick, stand on the ice with your left hip against the boards. Reach back with your picking foot and simulate your picking position. If you are in the correct position, here are the ONLY body parts that should be touching the wall: Left hip, Right foot, Right hand. The left hand should be lined up in front of your chest, with the left shoulder off the wall.

Hope your lutz comes home soon! :)

[Casey]

I landed a couple really beautiful good-feeling lutzes.

That was last year I think, and I haven't landed any since.

Granted I had some months of slacking. But whenever I go to do them, at the last minute I get all afraid or something, and I end up doing a half lutz, or worse, giving up before I start and REALLY cheating the takeoff.

So when you find a solution, you better tell me! I want my lutzes back darnit!

[flo]

Something to suggest for all of those pesky jumps. Right before you go into a jump - relax! Take a breath, smile, whatever you like, but relax. I do this before lutzes and double sals. It give me just a tiny second to get control of the jump rather than it have control over me. Usually my best jumps are the first few, then if there's trouble to be had it's later.

For the lutz, go easy on the toe, lower the leg to the ice and not whack it. Or for some variaton try a "toe-less" lutz where you don't toe in at all. This jump use to be common, but not anymore as it's quite difficult. However it will give you the feeling of a light touch on the toe in (as everyone who is learning it toes in). The lutzes are a favorite, it's such a power jump.

[miraclegro]

First of all, how in the world does one do a "toesless lutz?"

And, doubletoe, you said to have the right hip touching the wall? That must be a split second before the jump, right? Or how else does that work?

[doubletoe]

First of all, how in the world does one do a "toesless lutz?"

And, doubletoe, you said to have the right hip touching the wall? That must be a split second before the jump, right? Or how else does that work?

Nope, read that again, LOL! Assuming you pick and land with your right foot, it needs to be your left hip against the wall.

[flo]

A toe-less lutz is just like it sounds. Set up for it the same way, but no toe. Your motion up is from your spring off your skating foot and pulling up your fre foot. It feels like a Wally, but on the other edge.

[miraclegro]

I've not done a toe wally, but is it like a salchow (toeless?) It just seems more frightening than picking (at least to me :)

[flo]

Hi,
A wally, like a salchow is an edge jump. It takes off from a back inside edge of your skating foot.
The toeless lutz is and feels very odd.

[doubletoe]

So is a toeless lutz basically a salchow off a LBO edge instead of LBI edge?

[flo]

Hi,
I've never thought of it that way, but it would be an interesting thing to try and enter it from a left inside three. I've only tried to enter it from a lutz take off, and the jump looks like a lutz. But as long as you take off of that back outside (Left for me) edge, it's the same jump.

[TimDavidSkate]

In the beginning I was doing my lutz by just going backwards and reaching back. But had the bad habbit of not passing through. So after watching Michelle change up her entrance into a mohawk, I never went back to the other way :giveup:

[PattyP]

This has happened to me more times than I care to count and usually at the worst moment, like at AN. I can remember at least 3 years at AN where I was struggling with my lutz. It is mostly mental with me, the more I worry about it happening, the more likely it will.

After returning from AN this year, my coach and I started over completely. She taught me the jump like I was learning it for the first time. I was only allowed to do the "walk-through" exercises for a while and when those improved, I had to do at least 5 of them before attempting the jump on any practice session. I finally corrected what was shakey in my technique enough for the problem to go away. I still have an occasional "freak-out", but I'm able to correct it rather quickly in the same session rather than struggling for weeks or months like I used to.

I can really sympathize with what you are going through. It has been the most frustrating thing I have encountered in skating.

[Kristin]

Okay,

I know, i probably sound like a whiner. But, what is it that one day i can land a lutz and even a lutz loop, and say, for instance today, i am doing my back croosovers and i just , well, STOP. Chicken out. Doesn't feel right. Try again, and oh, phooey, same thing.

I know i've been battling a sciatic nerve thing, and i've gotten over a broken left ankle, but what is with this? Can someone tell me? It seems also like a timing thing. I will accept any and all tips. I am disgusted. Working on my Silver test program, and feel like i will fight and fight to get this blasted thing. When i get it, it is beautiful and has height. HELP!

Walk thru the steps without doing the jump. Remember toe in, draw feet, keep the back arm/shoulder BACK & fwd arm fwd. When I have issues it is because I am not keeping my right shoulder checked BACK long enough. The arms do NOT pull in until your feet have drawn closer together. This is important. It will make your lutz feel more "comfortable" (rather than scary). When I do my single lutz correctly, it almost feels like I am taking forever with the feet-draw and the whole jump feels like it is in slow-motion because the right arm/shoulder is checked back for a long time (it's not slow, that's just the way it "feels" and will make the jump go UP & get hang time!).

[PattyP]

The arms do NOT pull in until your feet have drawn closer together. This is important. It will make your lutz feel more "comfortable" (rather than scary). .

This was key in fixing my lutz woes. A great piece of advice!

[miraclegro]

Yeah, i can relate to the "scary" part. But also, in my current (awful) program, there is a mohawk into a left x-over, and am freaking myself out at times over it. Maybe i need to think about where that right arm is more. There are times i feel like i'm about to get twisted, but other times i am just chickening out.

[SkatingOnClouds]

Co-incidentally, I had my first go at a lutz last night, after more than 20 years. Did the long edge entry, then tried just the take off with no revolution, then coach said to go for the full jump. Arms went everywhere, it wasn't good.

My coach then said I need to pre-rotate slightly before the take off. I need to get her to explain this in more detail, because I was always of the understanding that with both flip and lutz - in fact any jump - it is jump first, then turn.

I think it will take time to learn the timing of any pre-rotation. Too early and there won't be any height, too late and there won't be enough rotation.

Thoughts on pre-rotation, anyone?

[Hannahclear]

My FS coach contends that all jumps are prerotated very slightly. Apparently I do this the right amount, though I'm not particularly aware of it.

[doubletoe]

Co-incidentally, I had my first go at a lutz last night, after more than 20 years. Did the long edge entry, then tried just the take off with no revolution, then coach said to go for the full jump. Arms went everywhere, it wasn't good.

My coach then said I need to pre-rotate slightly before the take off. I need to get her to explain this in more detail, because I was always of the understanding that with both flip and lutz - in fact any jump - it is jump first, then turn.

I think it will take time to learn the timing of any pre-rotation. Too early and there won't be any height, too late and there won't be enough rotation.

Thoughts on pre-rotation, anyone?

Yes, you need to keep that right shoulder and right hip back until you have picked, but as you pull yourself back with your pick, the hip gradually rotates CCW until your hips are completely squared and facing 12:00 (the direction you came from) by the time your feet come together. The right hip continues to twist CCW so that by the your left foot lifts up off the ice on takeoff, your pelvis is facing 10:00 and your shoulders are still facing 12:00. It's important that the rotation is initiated by the hips, not the shoulders. The torso should stay slightly counter-rotated against the hips on the loop, flip and lutz.

[miraclegro]

Well, i think i have decided to completely trash the prior footwork. So, what if i don't get extra points? I'll be happy to just land the darn thing. Any thoughts on this decision?

[Hannahclear]

Well it makes sense IMO. If you can't do the more difficult entrance, then you can't do it. Nice bonus points if you can, but ya know? It's a lutz, it isn't THAT easy. I don't do no stinkin' footwork into either of mine. Into a loop, sure.....but a lutz. Tricksy.

Once you are landing the lutz again, maybe you can add it back in.

[doubletoe]

Agreed. Only do the footwork if it actually helps you by giving you the right rhythm and timing. From what I've heard, judges often don't even write down in their notes whether or not you did a jump out of footwork, only if it looked good and was landed cleanly.

[SkatingOnClouds]

Yes, you need to keep that right shoulder and right hip back until you have picked, but as you pull yourself back with your pick, the hip gradually rotates CCW until your hips are completely squared and facing 12:00 (the direction you came from) by the time your feet come together. The right hip continues to twist CCW so that by the your left foot lifts up off the ice on takeoff, your pelvis is facing 10:00 and your shoulders are still facing 12:00. It's important that the rotation is initiated by the hips, not the shoulders. The torso should stay slightly counter-rotated against the hips on the loop, flip and lutz.

Wow, what a great explanation ! Exactly the sort of blow by blow description an adult learner like myself needs. Now all I have to do is apply it. Thank's so much for the tip about rotating the hips rather than the shoulders, which I am sure I would do otherwise. I'll let you know how I go.

[Sonic]

Well, i think i have decided to completely trash the prior footwork. So, what if i don't get extra points? I'll be happy to just land the darn thing. Any thoughts on this decision?
What what I've recently 'discovered' in my own skating (in my case the old run-before-you-can-walk), I'm with Hannahclear and Doubletoe and agree with your decision.

Once you've got the Lutz consistent again and are comfortable with it again you can try bringing the footwork back.

S xx