What to tell the sharpener?

[Skittl1321]

I recently got new skates, and had them sharpened less than 5 skating hours ago. When I first got them back, I (obviously) couldn't stop, but I could hold all my forward edges. Within 3 skating hours, I was slipping off my outside edges, mostly on my left skate, but to some extent on my right skate.

My instructor looked at what i was doing and said "time for a new sharpening."

WHAT! That seems WAY too soon.

So anyway, the person who sharpened them is the coach recommended by the "real" skaters at the rink, but I've also heard he follows the sharpening already in place- mine was, obviously a factory grind- and I wrote that on the note.

Is there something I can tell him, that will let me go more than 5 hours between sharpenings? Does it need to be deeper? Shallower? I don't know this man, and he is a very busy coach at the rink, so it's tough to talk to him. Usually, skates just get dropped off with a note for him to do it, rather than the guys who work the register.

Thanks :)

[samba]

This is a strange one, I have never heard of blades wearing so quickly, there is either something wrong with the metal in the blade or something else.

Do you have them placed correctly, you would need to ask someone who knows to advise you on this one as it can vary on your style of skating.

Are the screws all tight I have had the same problem and daft as it sounds it was the last thing I thought of. Also do you have enough screws holding the blades into place.

As the boots are new it cant be that they have creased too much.

If none of these are factors perhaps someone else can come up with something?

[mikawendy]

Are your blades temporary mounted (e.g., only 3 or 4 screws) instead of permanent mounted (more screws)? If that's the case, then jumping or spinning in them could *maybe* have displaced them or possibly even bent the blades slightly.

(My first pair of skates had only a temporary mounting with 3 screws in each blade. My skate pro checked and showed me how the blades had gotten ever so slightly bent from me jumping and spinning in them without a permanent mounting. He was able to fix the blades. Unfortunately, I had pretty much skated the whole life of the skates--1.5 yrs--on the temp. mounting, since I didn't know any better and I hadn't known that skate pro at that point. :twisted: )

[Skittl1321]

Are your blades temporary mounted (e.g., only 3 or 4 screws) instead of permanent mounted (more screws)? If that's the case, then jumping or spinning in them could *maybe* have displaced them or possibly even bent the blades slightly.


Oh goodness, I hope this isn't the case! I actually put the permanent screws in today, so they had been only temporary mounted. I've only had the skates for maybe 8 hours of skating though, and my spinning and jumping is limited to small bunny hops and slow two footed spins.

[Skittl1321]

This is a strange one, I have never heard of blades wearing so quickly, there is either something wrong with the metal in the blade or something else.

Do you have them placed correctly, you would need to ask someone who knows to advise you on this one as it can vary on your style of skating.

Are the screws all tight I have had the same problem and daft as it sounds it was the last thing I thought of. Also do you have enough screws holding the blades into place.

As the boots are new it cant be that they have creased too much.

If none of these are factors perhaps someone else can come up with something?

Well, we don't have a "pro" at the rink, so I've merely asked the instructor of my lessons. We are pretty sure the blades are placed correctly, my feet do not turn in or out when I am skating, and they don't lean to either side - does that make sense?

I had been skating on temporary mountings (all but 3 screws) but put the rest of them in today. I'm still a fairly basic skater- Basic 5/Delta level, so I don't really do anything that seems like it would "wear" the blades.

Thanks for trying :)

[dooobedooo]

Have you been walking around off-ice on the blades? The rubber and plastic matting can really dull the edges - you should wear blade guards off-ice.

If you have bottom-end skates, the blade metal is very soft. Mine used to need sharpening at least every 20 hours. But if you are prepared to fit a better grade of blade (eg. John Wilson Coronation Ace), they are likely to go much longer between sharpening (70 hours or more).

[Award]

Have you been walking around off-ice on the blades? The rubber and plastic matting can really dull the edges - you should wear blade guards off-ice.

If you have bottom-end skates, the blade metal is very soft. Mine used to need sharpening at least every 20 hours. But if you are prepared to fit a better grade of blade (eg. John Wilson Coronation Ace), they are likely to go much longer between sharpening (70 hours or more).

That's right. Just walking on carpet with the blades can dull the blades, especially when there's sand or grit on the floor. Even grit on the ice left by people doing the wrong thing, like walking on the ice with dirty shoes is bad for blades. Also, a poor sharpening service can do the same thing. Immediately after a poor sharpening, the edges may hold up a bit at first. But next time you skate, and if the ice is cold and very hard, it could be slip-slide galore.

[Skittl1321]

Have you been walking around off-ice on the blades? The rubber and plastic matting can really dull the edges - you should wear blade guards off-ice.

If you have bottom-end skates, the blade metal is very soft. Mine used to need sharpening at least every 20 hours. But if you are prepared to fit a better grade of blade (eg. John Wilson Coronation Ace), they are likely to go much longer between sharpening (70 hours or more).

I wear hard guards around the rink, and store them in soft guards. As for the blades, they are low end- Mirages, but an incredible step up from the "came with the skates I got from Lands End" blades I used to have which would only need sharpening about every 25-30.

[flippet]

The only thing I can think of is that perhaps they weren't sharpened evenly--take a look down the hollow so you're seeing it as a "U". Is one edge higher than the other? If your sharpening was uneven, then yeah--you could be sliding off the 'lower' edge, which would have dulled much faster than normal.

[Isk8NYC]

Yesterday, I thought a skater's skates might be dull because she was skidding on pushes and edges. Turned out they were freshly sharpened and brand new. (They were also loose.) The skater just couldn't control them yet.

Could be the instructor was mistaken. Give them another try before you question the sharpener.

If you do go back, ask the instructor what s/he recommends. I have my beginners use a "recreational" sharpening, which is more flat. Once we start doing jumps and edges, I have them ask for a "competitive" sharpening.

[dbny]

For your level a 1/2" hollow ought to do. If all else is OK, you could ask for that.

[Award]

Also, don't forget the thumb-nail test. At several points along the edge of the blade, on either side, lightly scrape the back of the thumb-nail along the edge to see if nail shaves off. If some sections don't shave off, with white nail powder stuck to the edge, then it means dull blade....and better not skate in them until they're fixed up.

[Skittl1321]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

It very well could be that I "can't control them" as the skates are very different from my old ones, the first few times I skated in them I could barely stroke forward. However, I had at least 2 lessons where I could hold the edges that I now slip off of.

I don't think the sharpener did a "bad" job, I'm just wondering if there is a way I could be more specific about what I need?

Since I'm not working with a coach it's a bit tough.
I'll see if my husband will try the finger nail thing- I bite mine, so it would be impossible to even try to shave them off... :(

[Rusty Blades]

5 hours is NOT right!

What you describe could be one of three things:

1. The blade(s) are trash - too soft - and will not hold an edge

2. The grind was not centered on the blade. Since most sharpeners always place the toe to the left when sharpening, that woul give you a weak outside edge on one foot and a weak inside edge on the other. (If he sharpens with the toe to the left for one skate and to the right for the other, it could leave you with weak outsides on both skates.)

3. The grind was too large a R.O.H. for your skating and the ice conditions.

Since you mention one foot being worse than the other, I suspect #2. You may be able to see the problem (with the hollow looking like a J instead of a U) but without a precision metal square it's difficult to measure.

The best thing would be to try a different sharpener if you can. If you can't, take them back and tell him you think the grind wasn't centered. If he's worth his salt, he'll check the blades and re-sharpen them for free.

[Award]

I'll see if my husband will try the finger nail thing- I bite mine, so it would be impossible to even try to shave them off... :(

It's not the tips of the fingernail that you're supposed to scrape against the edges hehe. It's the surface of the thumb-nail.....lightly and gently scraped across the edge of the blade....so that it shaves just a little tiny bit of nail off. But if you have finger nail polish etc on...then better not hehe

[russiet]

5 hours is NOT right!

...
1. The blade(s) are trash - too soft - and will not hold an edge

2. The grind was not centered on the blade. Since most sharpeners always place the toe to the left when sharpening, that woul give you a weak outside edge on one foot and a weak inside edge on the other. (If he sharpens with the toe to the left for one skate and to the right for the other, it could leave you with weak outsides on both skates.)

3. The grind was too large a R.O.H. for your skating and the ice conditions.

Since you mention one foot being worse than the other, I suspect #2. You may be able to see the problem ...



I agree, an off-center sharpening is the most likely of the 3.

Find a small straight edge and balace it in on the blade while you sight down it's length. Make sure the skate is off of your foot first!

You can hold the straight edge in place if you can't get it to balance, but it must contact both sharpened surfaces. Check to see if the angle between the straight edge and the side of the blade is 90 degrees.

[doubletoe]

We could speculate, but your sharpener is the expert, so just go back and explain to him the problem you experienced. He should be able to look at the blades and figure it out, and he should re-sharpen them for you. Call ahead and find out exactly when he will be in so you can talk to him in person. Also, I agree that a 1/2" ROH is a good standard depth to go with.

[mikawendy]

It's not the tips of the fingernail that you're supposed to scrape against the edges hehe. It's the surface of the thumb-nail.....lightly and gently scraped across the edge of the blade....so that it shaves just a little tiny bit of nail off. But if you have finger nail polish etc on...then better not hehe

I've done the fingernail test on my dull blades (many hours of skating and starting to not hold an edge very well), and they still shave off a bit of fingernail. YMMV, but I don't usually go by the fingernail test anymore after I tried that.

[Award]

I've done the fingernail test on my dull blades (many hours of skating and starting to not hold an edge very well), and they still shave off a bit of fingernail. YMMV, but I don't usually go by the fingernail test anymore after I tried that.

Did you do that at various locations along the edge of the blade, on both sides? I guess that how it shaves off is important too...like whether you have to apply a fair bit of force before it shaves. And how much it shaves. I guess if it's just bits of very fine powder coming off, then not good. If only a little bit of pressure is applied while scraping, and the blade is doing an easy job at shaving the nail, then should be no problem. If it shaves the nail off properly throughout the entire edge, and if the blade is properly mounted, it will cut the ice and grip it....no problem at all. Even hard/fast ice.

If I could give a demo, then that'd be much better. Since I know it's kind of vague when we just talk about scraping the nail along the blade edge.

[Casey]

My advice: Try deeper. I did and once I got used to it I loved it. I like my blades sharpened at 5/16 or 3/8" ROH - default is generally 5/8, 1/2, or 7/16 (the latter being the usual figure skating sharpening depth). If you don't like it you can always change back later...

[dooobedooo]

My advice: Try deeper....If you don't like it you can always change back later...

Good idea for now ... but once you have been skating seriously for a few years, have a much stronger ankle flex and knee bend, and can hold edges better using pressure, you may actually eventually return to preferring a flatter radius of hollow (catches less at speed).

[russiet]

I've done the fingernail test on my dull blades (many hours of skating and starting to not hold an edge very well), and they still shave off a bit of fingernail. YMMV, but I don't usually go by the fingernail test anymore after I tried that.

I found the same thing. But I deduced that a very small bur had formed; the edge had rolled over slightly to the outside (away from the hollow).

When I tested by dragging my fingernail toward the hollow, I got a shaving. When I dragged in the opposite direction the nail didn't catch at all.

Not unlike a knife steel, I started using a very fine grit diamond hone to take off the bur. This extended the time between sharpenings.

[Skittl1321]

Well I asked my instructor and she said she wasn't sure and had me ask the sharpener (who I'm a little intimidated by) She thought it looked like they had an edge.

I asked the sharpener, told him I lost the outside edge after only 4-5 hours of skating, and he said "is bad sharpening. do again." So, now I have to get a new sharpening. I think I'll put a note in to redo the sharpening and not follow the existing one. I left them for the good sharpener at the rink, but there is no telling who actually does them, since I'm not one of his students.