Opinions on making a coach change

[DallasSkater]

I am seriously contemplating switching coaches. I am concerned as I do not see an easy way to do it in which my current coach will not be terribly hurt. I am assertive so know how to say something like that politely, but there will be implications in the rink politics. But I pay a lot of money weekly for private lessons and want a coach that is not burned out, genuinely interested and excited about coaching with passion as well as interested in my progression rather than my reliability in showing for my lessons.

I would love to hear your opinions about making change as I am weighing if the implications are "worth it". It is unlike changing a health care provider or something as I would still see this coach very often and already anticipate she will not cope well. The implications are plenty. Our coaches are super competitive and often not complimentary of each other. My coach would very likely be passive aggressive to me and is often the coach in the more advance levels of LTS program that I attend and love. She is one of the instructors in my bridge program and one in my current FS class. Everyone would be aware that I changed and I imagine the other coaches would not be very supportive of her. I am not interested in hurting anyone.

I have mentioned several times that my coach is actually a very good instructor,,, very technical but not very fun or engaging or interested beyond making a living. I called 4 days in advance to cancel my private lesson this week due to my cold. I did attend my classes. My coach approached me later and said that I "could have" at least had a 30 minute lesson since I was "healthy" enough for my classes. I thought that was rather aggressive.

It is not like there is another coach at my rink that is super excited about teaching or about seeing me progress. But my exposure to all the coaches through bridge program has demonstrated to me that I can get a coach that has more energy for the work, is just as technically good, and is more engaging with possibly less burn out.

I really want a coach like many of you describe. I think about how Jazzpants seems to have a very interested and engaged coach as well as some of the others. It is quite a financial commitment and I want the best not only in technical but also in personality. But I am also not training for the Olympics or something!

Has anyone changed coaches and then stayed at the same rink? Do you think it is worth the "fall out"? It is not like I am not getting what I pay for in the first place! Ack! The decision is a difficult one! Any and all thoughts about this is appreciated. I will not make an impulsive decision.

Thanks in advance!

[Sk8pdx]

Hi DallasSkater,
Yes, I have been through a coaching change and stayed at the same rink. However the culture between coaches at your rink and mine are different. Coaches are very supportive of one another where I skate. For a while it was uncomfortable but over the course of time we both accepted the change for what it's worth. I still talk with my previous coaches and did not burn any bridges. In fact, one of my very first threads I started was this same topic. It comes back to haunt me every time this subject comes up.:?? I think I would have rather started off by confessing to be a lurker. :P

If you decide to change rinks, you are welcome to relocate where I live. the water tastes better, the majestic mountains provide better points of reference than lighted neon green architecture, and the ice is nice. Make sure to bring a few friends from Euless with you :)

[IceAge]

I had the same situation.I was progressing very fast with my previous coach at the beginning, but she hasn't had any motivation lately:roll: .It was frustrating specially when you are starting to learn "bigger stuff" like axel and doubles. I decided to change coaches (exactly after last season) and I'm very happy with new coach( and progressing fast again!8-) ).I also don't think there will be any problem with the rink - In my country "the politics" are much more important than in the U.S but I still skate at the same rink.Changes are useful sometimes!:)

[Debbie S]

Hmmm, DallasSkater, it sounds like you might need to change rinks. That environment doesn't sound very healthy. And if you don't see another coach at your rink that would meet your needs, than it probably makes sense to look elsewhere. No sense switching coaches to end up in the same situation. And if the atmosphere really is tense between the coaches, that could explain why your coach seems disengaged or burned out.

That being said, do you think maybe you are expecting too much from a coach? You might want to watch (but try not to be obvious) some other private lessons between skaters and other coaches and see how the coach and skater interact, etc. Then see if there is a coach whose personality and approach is more to your liking.

I went through a coaching change and although it was not the most pleasant experience, it has worked out for the best. Remember...it's your skating and your money, and you have the right to expect value out of what you spend.

[mikawendy]

Here are some threads from a while back that you might find useful. I've found them helpful in the past.

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=13659&highlight=changing+coaches

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=3996&highlight=switching+coaches

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=4822&highlight=switching+coaches

[TimDavidSkate]

Has anyone changed coaches and then stayed at the same rink? Do you think it is worth the "fall out"? It is not like I am not getting what I pay for in the first place! Ack! The decision is a difficult one! Any and all thoughts about this is appreciated. I will not make an impulsive decision.

Thanks in advance!

I did 8O it wasnt easy. I had to tell my coach for 7 yrs that I was going to somebody else. She taught me from the beginning to my double jumps. But I felt I was on a plateu, so I had to make a change. It was worth it! I improved on my stroking and edges.

I did the same thing too when I was in Alexandria,VA. I had to leave a well known skater in order to be coached by a Russian. Yes, *** camp hated me for the rest of the time I was there. Still to this day, I get cold stares, but hey it improved me!

Its never easy, but you have to do whats best for you!

[doubletoe]

Does your coach ever go on vacation or travel? The temporary unavailability of your coach can serve as an excuse to just try one or two lessons with another coach while he's gone. Not to hide that fact, of course, but just as a way to continue having lessons while he's gone (which is his fault, not yours).
When I switched coaches, I waited until my coach became really busy coaching kids for the Christmas recital and asked me if we could change my lesson time. I told him I couldn't do it, and would have to temporarily take lessons with someone who could teach me at my normal time until the Christmas recital was over. I switched to my current coach (who is wonderful) and by the time the Christmas recital was over and the old one came crawling back, I said my current situation was working well and the change seemed to be helping my skating.
I told him it wasn't that he wasn't a good coach, but that sometimes we all need to change coaches just to get a new set of eyballs looking at our skating. He was a drama queen and tried to make me feel guilty for awhile, and even said things about me to others at the rink, but I just kept being friendly to him and he eventually got over it. Both coaches are at the same rink, and everyone knows everyone's personality so his drama queen reaction was taken with a grain of salt.

[DallasSkater]

LOL sk8pdx: I think you still have PTSD over the Dallas experience and are now projecting it on to me to make the move. Actually, your part of the country wins hands down for beauty but how would I cope without my 100 degree days in the summer? giggle

IceAge: Should I admit I sux at geography and don't know which country is associated with Warsaw? Thanks for sharing your experience with the change. I am delighted that it worked out so well for you!

Debbie: Thanks for the input. You may be right that I am expecting a lot from a coach. Maybe too much as an adult student. I will give that some thought.

Mikawendy: Thanks for the links. I had not thought to search the previous threads. It was good having that additional input.

Tim: Thanks. I hope one day I will get to see you skate in one of the competitions you do. That must have been a very troubling situation to change after 7 years. So glad it worked out so well for you!

Doubletoe: Oh that just sounds like an ideal way to do it. I had thought that I might take another coach while mine goes out of town but she does not go often. I have not used my opportunities but may in the future! Since I am in the bridge with so many of the coaches I could say I just want to improve something one of them taught me. That would also afford me the opportunity to try them a time or two before committing to them.

It was very helpful to have everyone's input. I am still tossing the idea around a bit but would likely wait until after this semester of skate school to actually make the change. (Remember there is the Christmas recital and I am already concerned about being the grandma that gets run over!...If I wait there might be a snowflake role in my immediate future! giggle).

Next time I will assert that I am seeking coaching for 3-6 months and than would likely make a change...just in case I want to! I could always stay with them but then they could be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed and hurt! Ahhh, the art of manipulation! :halo:

[Debbie S]

Next time I will assert that I am seeking coaching for 3-6 months and than would likely make a change...just in case I want to! I could always stay with them but then they could be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed and hurt! Ahhh, the art of manipulation! :halo:I'm not sure that's the best way to go about it. I think most coaches (well, the ones who have been coaching for a while, anyway) realize that students often leave and work with other coaches - part of the business. But I wouldn't go up to a coach and ask for a lesson time and tell them point-blank that you're planning to change soon. You would probably get a reputation for being flaky and a coach-hopper, and if you want a coach to be excited about teaching you, that wouldn't be the way to do it.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with scheduling a trial lesson, or 2, with multiple coaches - just make sure you communicate to them what your intentions are. Coaches will understand a potential student's desire to try out different coaches before committing to work with one on a regular basis.

[Chico]

Yes, I have. Changed coaches and stayed at the same rink. I thought long and hard before I made the change. I like my old coach as a person but our relationship wasn't the right fit for me as a skater. I know it hurt but what the coach didn't understand was it hurt me too. Changing coaches isn't something you do just because. The because is BIG. Rink politics are awful and I did find rink attitude difficult for a few months. Everyone thinks they know the scoop but in all honesty most don't. Dealing with the don't and wrong is HARD. Saying that, I like my new coach and think I made the best choice for me. I'm much happier as a skater. My suggestion is to think long and hard before you make a choice you can't take back. Try talking to your coach first. If you decide to make the change be kind, honest and firm. Tell your old coach before you ask a new. Things get around at the rink. (What a horrible thing to hear via the grapevine!) Hopefully you can still be on friendly terms with your old and if not be polite. I like to think my old coach understands and sees that I'm happier and a "better" skater than in the past. And if their honest to themself they know the change was the right thing for me as a student. Anyhow, this is what I hope. Relationships take time to build. You can't expect to have a "close" relationship right from the beginning. To have a good coach student relationship you have to get to know each other first. A coach can be a friend but they should be your coach first. I have many friends but only one coach. As a skater with goals I need someone to guide me.

Good luck.

Chico

[flippet]

Debbie: Thanks for the input. You may be right that I am expecting a lot from a coach. Maybe too much as an adult student. I will give that some thought.
I had a thought that this might be a possibility too, but I wasn't sure how to say it.

You say:
interested in my progression rather than my reliability in showing for my lessons.

but not very fun or engaging or interested beyond making a living. I called 4 days in advance to cancel my private lesson this week due to my cold. I did attend my classes. My coach approached me later and said that I "could have" at least had a 30 minute lesson since I was "healthy" enough for my classes. I thought that was rather aggressive.


I really want a coach like many of you describe. I think about how Jazzpants seems to have a very interested and engaged coach as well as some of the others. It is quite a financial commitment and I want the best not only in technical but also in personality. But I am also not training for the Olympics or something!

(emphasis mine.)

It kind of sounds to me like maybe you're upset that your coach 'called you out' on canceling your lesson. (Yes, you had a good reason, but look at it from the coach's perspective. It most certainly is a business for her--no student = no income. If you canceled due to your cold, it's reasonable of her to think that you're too sick to skate. Showing up to skate your classes, but not her lesson, might very well feel like, to use a metaphor, asking a boy to the school dance, having him tell you that he's not going because he'll be at a family wedding that weekend, so you go with your friends, only to see him at the dance with another girl. Basically---yeah, I wanted to go (skate), I just didn't want to go (skate) with YOU.) Maybe if you talked with her about what you're expecting from your lessons, and your interactions with her, you could improve things. Perhaps she could easily change something if she knew it was bugging you.

Also, you say you 'want the best', like 'others' have. You may be idealizing others' interactions with their coaches. Lots of people are mostly going to post the best about their coaches, and might not let you know about the things that bug them. Maybe their coach does something that doesn't bug them (so they don't post about it), but if it were done with you, it would annoy you to no end.

Bottom line--people are people, with their good points and bad. You're not going to find perfection. You just need to decide what you can live with, and what you can't----and if the list of 'can't' is too long, your pool of possible coaches will be very shallow.

[Chico]

I agree, if your sick enough to cancel a lesson your too sick to skate. If my coach is well enough to teach some skaters she better be well enough to coach all. (Of course, this doesn't count for an emergency or sudden illness.) Students should treat their teacher the way they would want to be treated. AND, teachers should treat their students the way they would want to be treated. Adult skaters and kid skaters are individuals and should be treated like INDIVIDUALS. Adults don't fit into a special group just because their an adult. Ditto with kids. And, special bonds between skater and coach can occur but bonds take time. Some folks just hit it off. You can't make a good relationship happen but you can foster it sometimes. A coach is a coach, your not hiring a FRIEND. They can be, but in all reality this shouldn't be what a coach is for. My coach is a friend but she's my COACH first and most importantly.

Chico

[doubletoe]

Ultimately, there is no perfect coach for all people. It's not so much a matter of one coach being categorically better than another one; it's usually more of a compatibility issue having to do with the fit between the coach's communication style and your learning style.

[Chico]

agree

Chico

[plinko]

We've got a bit of a problem. We're in a club where there are several coaches. We interviewed them all, one we didn't like at all personality wise but is technically very good and has skaters with great results. Others were full, and we've landed with one who has limited time. It's not a great situation. We asked the club if there were more coaches available and were given the same list. When I explained that we can't get enough lessons with the coach we chose, we were told that the coach we didn't like had openings.

I don't know what to do. Well, right now, we're struggling through on one lesson a week because we have to belong to a coach to skate in this club. I got the strong feeling that the club was trying to fill up this "star coach" because the club lady was rather snippy when I said that I'd interviewed that coach and it wasn't a good fit. Apparently personality shouldn't be a concern. :frus:

[cecealias]

I think personality is a big part of the equation, especially because figure skating involves your body - you can't force someone to feel comfortable with a certain instructor and worse yet, if you're not comfortable with a particular coach it can really be counter-productive to the entire learning experience.

DallasSkater - one way to go about a coaching change is to be honest with your coach and tell them you want to try other coaching styles. I have never changed coaches at the same rink but i've been allowed to take lessons with other coaches, because i felt like i needed another perspective on something i had trouble with. Or, for choreography.

I believe you have a right to the best coaching possible, no matter who you are, child, adult, senior. A good coach should be concerned with buildling a solid foundation for your skating and be supportive and flexible with your welfare and well-being. You should never feel pressured into having lessons, and more importantly, a good coach will want to make sure you have a strong fundamentals because a good coach is not going to make their own lives more difficult by having to constantly rework bad habits from weak fundamentals. A good coach should also be able to protect their students from rink politics. finally a good coach should be someone you feel comfortable communicating and working with. nothing's perfect in a relationship but having someone you are comfortable communicating with makes a big difference and finding that kinda of a relationship is worth its weight in gold.

The change is definitely worth it if you feel stifled in your current relationship. I don't think there is a good reason to feel that a fall-out will hurt you, especially since it sounds like you've recently been in the bridge program and FS group classes. It's understandable that a lot of students at these levels may not necessarily stay in private coaching or figure skating for a long time. But just coming from the Bridge program - its an excellent time to try different coaches and coaching styles since you could say that you're new to private coaching and want to try different teaching styles and are curious to see what works best for you. Its probably another story if you've been with a coach for say 5 or 10 years ( i'm assuming you havent been in bridge/LTS for 5 years)

[DallasSkater]

LOL Debbie: I think I am willing to risk being labeled "flakey". Part the rink politics involves my coach having a reputation similar to my experience with her. I do think that I have a good rep with other coaches and skaters at the rink so far. Anyone who would be so judgmental of my use of my funds would not be high on my list for getting to know better anyway! That is really a good suggestion of taking "trial lessons" first with several. Wish I would have known to do that in the first place as I think I "knew" after my first lesson. If I do make the change, I will use your suggestion and do trials first.

Chico, flippet and double: good points about being equitable and about relationships in general..
Thankful that I am now feeling better. Please note that I did tell my coach of my intent to still attend my classes since it did not require the same level of exersion and I could hang back but still get instruction. I am blessed with a great social network so I do not think I need the coach to be a great friend as much as I need the coach to be engaged in the professional relationship.

Plinko: So sorry to hear of that coaching dilemma. That is always the problem, the most popular ones are too busy to fit schedules as well.

Cecealias: I really agree with your statement that a poor fit can effect the whole learning experience. I have tried to be more directive with my needs. She does better for a while but since my assessment is that her difficulty is burn out and general unhappiness it seems to bleed back into the experience. I am not so unhappy as I do think the instruction is very good. I just would like the full blend as it does effect the experience. I am ok for this semester since I have my classes and exposure to the other coaches. I will find a way to adjust my situation soon. Thanks for your input.

I have my private lesson as well as 2 skate classes today. Will again address my concerns and needs with my coach and see how it goes. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts about this so openly. It really does help!

[Ellyn]

plinko, Do you like the coach who has limited time? Are the lessons productive and enjoyable, the only problem is there aren't enough of them?

If so, maybe the best thing to do is to let that coach know that you want to stay with him/her and that you would like to take additional lessons whenever s/he has more openings. That may mean waiting up to a year before you can add more regular scheduled lessons, but the coach would also know that if there are unexpected openings s/he could offer them to you first.

Also, if you feel that you need more instruction in the meantime, see if find other sources of supplemental instruction that the coach would approve of. Are there any appropriate group classes offered through your club or rink or others you can get to easily? If you're focusing on freestyle, is there an ice dance coach you could also work with (or vice versa)? Check with your coach and see what s/he suggests.

[jazzpants]

I really want a coach like many of you describe. I think about how Jazzpants seems to have a very interested and engaged coach as well as some of the others. It is quite a financial commitment and I want the best not only in technical but also in personality. But I am also not training for the Olympics or something!DallasSkater: One factor you should be aware of is that my coaches at my home rink DO get along with each other for the most part and will work with each other to get things done. There's none of this "passive-aggressive" business. If you have one of those coaches, get the hell far away from her/him b/c my experience with those coaches are... they're "trouble."

Short of that, I'm fortunate that I got a really good primary coach and it took a while (and going on a strange lark) to find my secondary coach. The arrangement is working out well! There's NO jealousy or animosity between my primary and secondary coaches -- and certainly not w/ the coaches that I travel to visit when I visit my family in the East Coast. (Primary coach has met BOTH my East Coast coaches and is pretty friendly with one of them.)

For a while I thought that going to the "best rinks" and "best coaches" where they produce Olympic and World competitors is great or are one of those. The problem though is that, with my personality, I need more than just a good technical coach... I need a coach who's a good communicator, has a really good sense of humor, isn't above being :twisted: sneaky to try to get me to learn something :lol: , and who will challenge me to get those skills b/c s/he believes that I can get those skills. And yes, it's also important that they both love their jobs too!!! (Well, if they quit b/c they won the Powerball or CA Lotto, then that's a different story... :lol: ) As cecealias says, it's all a personality match in the end!

My suggestion... talk to your primary coach first and explain to her that this needs to change for your coaching-student relationship to work! Do that first... THEN if it's still not working out, then break the relationship and go look for a new private coach.

[samba]

It depends on what the coach is like, in some cases it's tell them and run like the wind!!

My previous coach really wasnt interested in me at all and much preferred children to old farts such as myself so she was quite relieved when I told her I wanted to move on.

My present coach is a darling, she is only 30, I have had her as my coach for at least 8 years now so she was in her early 20's when I first started with her, she comes to most of the competitions with me unless there is a very very good reason not to and she is my rock.

If you are not happy with your coach you have to do what is best for you, paying out good money because you dont want to hurt someone's feelings is madness but something most of us, myself included, have been guilty of in the past, you just have to bite the bullet and tell it as best you can, dont forget to tell them how very grateful you are for progress so far but try asking if they feel that a few lessons with a different coach might give you a different angle, that way you can slowly ween off.

[DallasSkater]

Jazzpants: Thanks, you really do sound like you have a good coaching situation and one that I would love!

Samba: I incorporated some of that weaning off strategy in my approach with the coach...thanks.

I did have a little heart to heart with my coach. It actually went well as I stayed focused on my skating objectives and let her know more strongly about how bothered I am in the "trickle down effect" of the rink politics. At first this launched her into inappropriately sharing more of that rink mess but I was able to redirect her immediately and set an expectation that I am not interested nor will reinforce discussions about other coaches, who has what qualifications, who is a terrible person...egad's...etc. I don't think this will change her engagement but did notice in an impromptu extra lesson that she was totally focused in the lesson. I took this as a good sign. She heard me.

Additionally, I did manage to tell her that occasionally I will be scheduling with a few other coaches from my bridge program to receive "extra" help with the different things that I struggle with grasping and on skills that were specifically introduced by them in the group. I told her I wanted our lessons to be able to continue in skills advancement and that I would always return to her preferred form in the different elements. She became OK with this but did list several coaches that I could and could not ask! giggle. I thought I could respect her wishes in this and thought it was important that she still feel very primary so agreed to her list. It only deleted a few that I would not mind working with and have a good relationships with them. I think they are people with whom she has the most conflict. I want to be respectful and I still have a decent pool of options.

She did share that she started teaching at a different rink to boost her income. She thinks she likes the people at the other rink better. I have to wonder if she might eventually build enough there to leave mine. After my lesson Friday and again on Saturday, it was good for me to again be reminded of the fact that she really is a very skilled instructor. I always make sure that I say that out loud to her as she deserves that sincere respect.

This will either be the intervention that was needed or the weaning off that samba suggested.

Again, thanks for your input!

[mikawendy]

DallasSkater--
Glad to hear things went so well for you. One question--since your coach is teaching at two rinks, is there a chance for you to do lessons with her at both rinks?

[samba]

Well done DallasSkater, this is quite a gut wrenching thing to have to do and you have the added bonus of having lessons off her for anything that the others dont cover, I am a great believer in having more than one coach anyway, When Bracknell first opened and my son trained there, it was normal policy for pupils to have lessons with all the coaches for similar reasons.

I'm quite lucky at our rink at the moment,the politics are good and the coaches get on reasonably well so if one is sick I can go to the other, so everyone benefits.

[BatikatII]

Well done DallasSkater, this is quite a gut wrenching thing to have to do and you have the added bonus of having lessons off her for anything that the others dont cover, I am a great believer in having more than one coach anyway, When Bracknell first opened and my son trained there, it was normal policy for pupils to have lessons with all the coaches for similar reasons..

Such a pity it is not like that now! It can be a bit of a nightmare with some coaches really not getting on with others and it is such a shame as they all have their strengths and weaknesses. For a while we did manage to combine two that did get on and they really did complement each other but now one of them has left it is more difficult. There are certainly coaches I would not take from and it has nothing to do with their ability as coaches!