New Klingbeils & Gold Seals!!!

[Casey]

So Saturday afternoon I got to pick up my new skates that I ordered about a little over month ago and have wanted for soooo long.

They are everything I dreamed of and more.

The fit of the boot is absolutely perfect. The only issue is that they are still quite stiff and not broken in yet, and I have large anklebones...so they hurt my outside anklebones a bit...back crossovers are the most painful thing. I went through the same thing when I got my heat-molded Grafs too, and I'm sure it will go away as it I break them in. It is so awesome to skate without bunga pads...the skates are so well fitted that I can't even wear thin socks with any ribbing as they will press into my skin...but fortunately I have non-ribbed thin skating socks! They are so well-fit I might give barefoot skating a go too, but not until they are broken in a bit more and feel more comfortable.

The appearance of the boots...my god...I tried taking pictures as best I could, but they look horrid in the pictures compared to how they look in real life. I'm very happy to have gone with the natural color soles, and am now kicking myself for ever thinking of getting black soles. The gold plating on the blades is maybe a bit too vain and some people might get the wrong impression, but I really don't care - it was only an extra $100 and it looks awesome. I spent a couple hours putting another coat of sno-seal and leather polish on them last night, which makes them even nicer, but I don't think it helped for the pictures as the camera seems to see smudges that I can't. I am in love with the beautiful grain of the leather uppers...much nicer than the suede.

When I put the skates on and move them around off-ice, it reminds me of a sound a heard long ago, when my mom used to saddle her horse for a ride. It's the sound of new, real leather. A sound I never heard with my 100% synthetic Grafs... As my fitter pointed out, these are 100% natural materials, so it's quite a contrast. The feel of the leather is so luxurious in comparison...


Okay okay, enough babbling about how much I love the fit and appearance, how do they work? Especially with the change from a 7' rocker to parabolic Gold Seals (an 8' rocker)? Honestly, I don't understand what everyone's hangup with 8' rockers is... The toepicks did feel rather a bit closer to the ice when I first went out and there were a couple uncertain steps to recover from, but within an hour, I was nearly as comfortable on them as I was the Gold Stars. I can't bend my knees quite as much yet, and there are other subtle differences, but I could do anything I tried. Ironically, the waltz jump was the hardest, I think because I am used to really bending my knees on it. After getting that back, I proceeded with all the jumps through the flip and half lutz and they weren't really any harder at all. I don't know if it's the parabolic effect or the flatter blade, but 3-turns are easier because once the turn is done the blade sort of sticks in the direction it should be going with less effort than I had to use before. I was able to do better spirals than ever because of the additional stability. A lot is still hard to judge as I need to break the boots in more and simply get more used to them, but the blades don't seem to be any disadvantage whatsoever.

Finally, I thought I'd try some spins - the dreaded things that are supposedly much harder on 8' rockers. Well...not only did I not have any difficulty with them, but they travelled less and felt even faster and more steady than before. Maybe they would have been harder to learn on initially, I don't know, but they sure aren't hard now.

Some of you may remember when I was whinging about my old boots, and noted that the mounting on the right blade seemed to be too far to the outside, because it was quite a bit harder to hold a straight edge on the right foot without falling to the inside than the left. I always wondered what all that affected but it never seemed to be that much of an issue and as all my screws were put in on the old skates, I just dealt with it. Well, I tried on these skates, and they are mounted nice and even and both sides felt equal for once.

What the heck I figured, I'll try a backspin attempt. Oops...sloppy entry...gaaah...eh what's this? OMG!?!?!! I just did a 4-5 revolution backspin! On the right edge...without even a decent ability to bend my knee. I'm very excited by this, and can't wait for the skates to break in more so I can see how this progresses. It was scary and new, but I think I could get used to it. ;-)

Before I go all out and say that 8' is easier than 7', it probably isn't, because I also must consider that my old blades were 3/4" longer because of the misfit of the boot. Who knows how much that affected things. In any case the Gold Seals are working beautifully for me thus far.


Anyways that's all for now, I've only gone skating twice in my new skates. All I can say is that if there is any way you can afford it, get custom skating boots!!! Especially Klingbeil!!! It makes soooooo much difference and a misfitted boot is the last thing you want to deal with...

Oh, and here's the pictures I took this morning!
http://casey.shobe.info/images/index.php?s=Ice+Skating%2FNew+Klingbeils

Much nicer than my old skates (http://casey.shobe.info/images/index.php?s=Ice+Skating%2FGraf+Skates), I have to say. ;-)

[dbny]

Ah, vanity, thy name is Casey :lol:

They really are quite beautiful, and it's great to hear that you got such a perfect fit and are enjoying the new blades right away.

[jazzpants]

WHOA!!! Check out the new BLING!!! 8O 8-) :lol:

See? Did I tell 'ya that you shouldn't be skating on those old skates. OMG! I was more afraid you were gonna get into a bad accident with those old boots!!! 8O I feel better now that you are starting off on new skates, rather than skating on boots that has the heel coming off the boots! :roll:

Glad to hear your boots fit well and you're skating well in them!

[Isk8NYC]

I was wondering where you've been and if you did get new skates, so I checked out your album and found my answer. Congratulations on the new skates. I'm glad you're back on the ice and having fun!

[doubletoe]

Nice! Are you going to get the ankles punched out? It should make them comfortable right away, and in my experience, it has never shortened the life of my boots.
I'm thinking your Gold Stars were probably flattened a bit (from multiple sharpenings) by the time you replaced them with the Gold Seals, so you probably ended up going from an 8' rocker to an 8' rocker, which made it easy. The 8' rocker is supposed to provide a little more stability on jump landings, which is always a nice thing. :)

[Skate@Delaware]

Very nice, Casey!!! I'm very happy for you!

I think it would be more of an issue going from 8' to 7' than from 7' to 8' except for spins...but you just proved THAT theory wrong. Glad your jumps are good and your backspin is probably working because your boots FIT WELL!

Skate on!!!!

[icedancer2]

They are really nice -- can you believe I was thinking about you this morning when I was coming home from the rink -- wondering if you had gotten your new boots yet?

I guess it must have been hanging in the air or something...:)

[sandyk]

Hi Casey--this is Sandy from the Everett rink. Don't know if you remember me, we met there a couple of months ago. I am the blonde woman that marched up to you and introduced myself, indicating how excited we all were to have a real live, competent, adult male skater at the rink, if that rings a bell. Haven't seen you around lately so I hope I didn't scare you too much. I can be kind of intense sometimes in a hyperactive puppydog kind of way. :lol:

Anyway, I am in some Reidell Blue Ribbons right now, and they have been okay for what I've been doing up to this point, but I'm progressing faster now and quickly approaching the point where I'll need "more skate." Plus I have some issues with overpronation. I currently have 2 sets of arch supports in my left skate to straighten out my foot enough to shere I can hold an outside edge on that side. After consulting the fine folks here at skatingforums, the consensus was that Klingbeils would probably be the best skate for correcting the overpronation since they have the background in corrective shoes. So that's what I am thinking I want to get for my next skate.

So I'm just wondering--who did your fitting and which shop did you go to?

[phoenix]

I currently have 2 sets of arch supports in my left skate to straighten out my foot enough to shere I can hold an outside edge on that side. After consulting the fine folks here at skatingforums, the consensus was that Klingbeils would probably be the best skate for correcting the overpronation since they have the background in corrective shoes. So that's what I am thinking I want to get for my next skate.

So I'm just wondering--who did your fitting and which shop did you go to?

Just fyi, I'm in my second pair of Klingbeils & have had terrible "not-enough-arch support-for-my-pronation" issues w/ both pairs. I currently have my left boot hugely, homemade-ly built up on the inside to make it workable.

You should make sure that your fitter makes a BIG deal out of that when placing the order.....I thought the mold of my feet, plus the notation to put in extra support, would have done it but alas, no.

I love my Klings, but they do have their issues too. Not sure what I'll do for my next pair-- probably either try a different brand, or else take the trip to NY to discuss it in person.

[Casey]

Hi Casey--this is Sandy from the Everett rink. Don't know if you remember me, we met there a couple of months ago. I am the blonde woman that marched up to you and introduced myself, indicating how excited we all were to have a real live, competent, adult male skater at the rink, if that rings a bell. Haven't seen you around lately so I hope I didn't scare you too much. I can be kind of intense sometimes in a hyperactive puppydog kind of way.
Sandy!! Wow!! Hey I just want to say that I'm really happy to see you here! I started working full-time in Redmond so I don't skate at Everett anymore... :( But I thought you had an awesome personality (certainly not too intense) and look forward to seeing you skate more in the future. You are one of the most enchanting people I have ever met skating, and I remember you well. I always felt bad because I never got the opportunity to say goodbye before I stopped coming to Everett - it's such a wonderful rink to skate at. Do you skate any evening or weekeng sessions?

So I'm just wondering--who did your fitting and which shop did you go to?
Vicki Zander - she runs a business called Superior Skateworks in Portland. I believe it's based out of her house but she works at various rinks from time to time. She comes to the Seattle area every few weeks though, so it's generally easiest to just sync up with her when she's here. When she comes she brings everything she needs with her for sharpenings or fittings, and she's a great person, extremely knowledgeable. Don Klingbeil praised her highly, and a current Olympic skater and other high-level skaters are fitted by her (but I just found that out recently). I really like her...

If you want to get in touch with her - her mobile (best) number is 503-329-5180, and her land line is 503-667-2817.

How's your skating coming along?

[Casey]

I love my Klings, but they do have their issues too. Not sure what I'll do for my next pair-- probably either try a different brand, or else take the trip to NY to discuss it in person.
Have you already talked to Don or somebody else at Klingbeil to see if there's anything he could recommend? I know that dbny had a great experience getting her boots redone by them until they were just right...just a thought.

[Casey]

Nice! Are you going to get the ankles punched out? It should make them comfortable right away, and in my experience, it has never shortened the life of my boots.
I already did get them punched out a little, but not too much as I was only testing that they felt okay off-ice, which didn't take the same pressures into consideration. The thing is that my ankle bones are just really annoyingly big and they push towards the back more when I do things like backwards crossovers so it's just a matter of making the skates get used to me...if they don't feel substantially better in a week then I might get them punched out more, but for now they're okay and I can skate for a couple hours without any blistering before the pain gets too annoying and I have to stop, so I think they'll come along quick...

[doubletoe]

I already did get them punched out a little, but not too much as I was only testing that they felt okay off-ice, which didn't take the same pressures into consideration. The thing is that my ankle bones are just really annoyingly big and they push towards the back more when I do things like backwards crossovers so it's just a matter of making the skates get used to me...if they don't feel substantially better in a week then I might get them punched out more, but for now they're okay and I can skate for a couple hours without any blistering before the pain gets too annoying and I have to stop, so I think they'll come along quick...

That's good. It's always good to have skated in them for several hours before punching them out anyway, since that's the only way you can see where your ankle presses into the boot when you skate. :)

[Sk8pdx]

So Saturday afternoon I got to pick up my new skates that I ordered about a little over month ago and have wanted for soooo long.

They are everything I dreamed of and more....

The appearance of the boots...my god...I tried taking pictures as best I could, but they look horrid in the pictures compared to how they look in real life. I'm very happy to have gone with the natural color soles, and am now kicking myself for ever thinking of getting black soles. The gold plating on the blades is maybe a bit too vain and some people might get the wrong impression, but I really don't care - it was only an extra $100 and it looks awesome. I spent a couple hours putting another coat of sno-seal and leather polish on them last night, which makes them even nicer, but I don't think it helped for the pictures as the camera seems to see smudges that I can't. I am in love with the beautiful grain of the leather uppers...much nicer than the suede.

I bet you look handsome in them, not that you aren't already as I have witnessed myself ;)


When I put the skates on and move them around off-ice, it reminds me of a sound a heard long ago, when my mom used to saddle her horse for a ride. It's the sound of new, real leather. A sound I never heard with my 100% synthetic Grafs... As my fitter pointed out, these are 100% natural materials, so it's quite a contrast. The feel of the leather is so luxurious in comparison....

John Keats wrote: "A thing of beauty, is a joy forever".

Okay okay, enough babbling about how much I love the fit and appearance, how do they work? .... I don't know if it's the parabolic effect or the flatter blade, but 3-turns are easier because once the turn is done the blade sort of sticks in the direction it should be going with less effort than I had to use before.

I found the same to be true when I switched from regular coronation aces to my parabolic ones. Spins were easier too.

...What the heck I figured, I'll try a backspin attempt. ... OMG!?!?!! I just did a 4-5 revolution backspin! On the right edge...without even a decent ability to bend my knee. I'm very excited by this, and can't wait for the skates to break in more so I can see how this progresses. It was scary and new, but I think I could get used to it. ;-)

:bow: :bow: does this mean we will be seeing more video posts? I would love to see a personal view of spins again. :lol: I could use some help on my change foot spin.


...Anyways that's all for now, I've only gone skating twice in my new skates. All I can say is that if there is any way you can afford it, get custom skating boots!!! ...It makes soooooo much difference and a misfitted boot is the last thing you want to deal with...

I will second that for sure!
I am very excited that your new skates are all that you anticipated. :)

[DallasSkater]

Casey: Congrats on the new pair of skates. I adore your enthusiasm for them and that you even took pictures to share with us! It was like looking at your kids! lol. Love the gold blades. Makes them look special.

Hey sk8pdx....bet you are so glad to be home again. We should have gone to farmers branch the Saturday you were here. Took my niece to public session this weekend. We had the entire rink to ourselves for over an hour! We did our own private ice show for the guard who thought we were a bit nutty when we added sound effects...giggle.

[sandyk]

I forgot to use the quote thingie but I am replying to Casey replying to me up above!

But you asked how the skating is going and it's going good! Starting work on my PreBronze moves test, hopefully will be ready to take it Decemberish. That's what I'm shooting for. Cleaning up technique on everything except Waltz 8 which I haven't learned yet. I'm probably a month out on learning it...but I learn pretty quick. And I'm not totally dead-set on testing in December, I'll just do it whenever I'm ready.

I keep a blog on my Myspace page, if you wanna keep tabs.
It's here (http://www.myspace.com/sandykaduce)



I already have found your web page and have been keeping tabs on you! It tripped me out when I happened across it and went--hey, I know that guy! Hehehe... :D

[sandyk]

Just fyi, I'm in my second pair of Klingbeils & have had terrible "not-enough-arch support-for-my-pronation" issues w/ both pairs. I currently have my left boot hugely, homemade-ly built up on the inside to make it workable.

Oh no, I'm bummed to hear that. It's such a risk with customs because it isn't like you can take them back if they don't work for you. Or can you? I know with custom riding boots, you cannot. You can get things modified but if the boot just flat out doesn't work for you, and some lasts just don't work for some people, then modifications aren't going to help and you might be stuck.

If I didn't have such crappy feet I would probably not go custom without having tried a particular brand of stock boots just to test out the last. At my level, it isn't like I would ordinarily NEED a custom boot. BUT, my feet are so screwy (fallen arches/overpronation, hammertoes and bunions--seems like I have every foot problem you can have, just about!) I think I have to go that route for corrective purposes, and just hope that I get a fitter that does a good job.

Appreciate the heads up and advice. I would LOVE to be fitted by the Klingbeils themselves, but unfortunately, New York is kind of a far hike from Seattle! :cry: Heck, PDX isn't exactly convenient either but if I can reduce the risk of a bad fitting I hope it will be worth it. I'm not doing anything until after I pass the pre-bronze moves test though. Don't want to lose practice time to breaking in boots.

Danke schoen, darlings!

[phoenix]

Actually w/ Klingbeil they will definitely keep fixing the boot for you until it's right. However, I don't have the time or the money to ship them over & over (I shipped them once to have the tongues replaced--over $100.00!!!).....and can't be without my skates because I teach too & don't have a backup pair. I could perhaps take them to a cobbler in Chicago who does work on skates a lot, but actually the homemade building up is working for now, so I'm leaving it alone.

I think if I could actually go there & show them & talk to them, they may be able to fix it. However, these boots probably only have a year of life left, so for now I'm getting by w/ what I have.

I just think you need to really stress to your fitter that you need major arches put in for you. I have my left insole built up a good inch above the original sole.

[NoVa Sk8r]

Actually w/ Klingbeil they will definitely keep fixing the boot for you until it's right. However, I don't have the time or the money to ship them over & over (I shipped them once to have the tongues replaced--over $100.00!!!).
I think if I could actually go there & show them & talk to them, they may be able to fix it. However, these boots probably only have a year of life left, so for now I'm getting by w/ what I have.Indeed. I brought my 3-year-old Klingbeils back to Queens in March, and Don fixed them for free. He put in new tongues (the previous ones were lambswool--now they're rubber) and restitched the insides of both boots.

Good luck with your boots--I know what a pain it is when they are not right ...

[Casey]

Oh no, I'm bummed to hear that. It's such a risk with customs because it isn't like you can take them back if they don't work for you. Or can you? I know with custom riding boots, you cannot. You can get things modified but if the boot just flat out doesn't work for you, and some lasts just don't work for some people, then modifications aren't going to help and you might be stuck.
Klingbeil will rework and even replace them as necessary until they fit for you until they are perfect...or at least so I've heard from others. Klingbeil is also different from the other countries in that they carve a custom last for your feet based on the measurements of you feet that the fitter takes plus the contour of the bottom of your foot from a memory foam that you step into that gets mailed to them...so it's got a pretty darn good chance of being right. They also keep your last in case you ever want another pair so your replacements will be exactly the same unless you need an adjustment made.

There's a pretty cool video about it here:
http://www.klingbeilskatingboots.com/swf/klingbeil.swf

[Sk8pdx]

Hey sk8pdx....bet you are so glad to be home again. We should have gone to farmers branch the Saturday you were here. Took my niece to public session this weekend. We had the entire rink to ourselves for over an hour! We did our own private ice show for the guard who thought we were a bit nutty when we added sound effects...giggle.

I nearly kissed the ground when I got off the plane!:bow: but my husband was there with flowers instead. ;) I never thought I would be so happy to see my car too. :)
Started right in on my resume as a few opportunities have come into play.

That is great for you and your niece. Wow! ain't nothing better than private ice time for a public ice price:P If I were there with you, I would add my own applause and "crowd-gone-wild" sounde effects too. I still wish those in Euless would relocate! (how can they support a rink in the middle of freakin' no-where anyway???).

my apologies for the little thread hijack here...:halo: sorry.

[Sk8pdx]

...Starting work on my PreBronze moves test, hopefully will be ready to take it Decemberish. That's what I'm shooting for. Cleaning up technique on everything except Waltz 8 which I haven't learned yet. I'm probably a month out on learning it...but I learn pretty quick. And I'm not totally dead-set on testing in December, I'll just do it whenever I'm ready.

I keep a blog on my Myspace page, if you wanna keep tabs.
It's here (http://www.myspace.com/sandykaduce)


I just passed pre-bronze in June. Waltz 8 is fun. I always return to it when I am frustrated with practicing. I find it peaceful. I also had the privilege of getting some great advice on backwards crossovers from one of the hockey coaches when I visited Everett. It is quite a traumatic visual that will take me years to get out of my head!8O :??

Keep us posted on how the testing goes. Those of us in the pre-bronze peanut gallery are awaiting new members. :)

I am usually more careful about not hijacking threads, I am really off topic here, sorry Casey!:halo:

[Casey]

Don't want to hijack your thread...

I am usually more careful about not hijacking threads, I am really off topic here, sorry Casey!:halo:
I don't care at all, I've been known to hijack a thread myself from time to time (and not feel one bit guilty about it to boot!). :P

[TaBalie]

Why do you say Grafs are 100% synthetic?

So happy you love your new boots!

[Casey]

Why do you say Grafs are 100% synthetic?

The leatherlike lining on the inside is Clarino (A soft durable man-made leather with a synthetic fibre base layer, a microcellular polyurethane layer and a finish coat simulating the grain of natural leather), the outer suedelike surface is also synthetic, the top of the tongue is molded plastic, the padding is a foam, and the heel of the boot is a block of plastic that holds screws well with a bit of leather around the outside for traditional appearance. The heel is held on with a metal bolt into the heel that can be seen under the insole (the rest of the bottom under the insole is a white fibrous synthetic material), and the remainder is held on with a couple nails and a lot of glue (which on mine nad many others, cracks over time). Aside from the bottom of the sole (which may or may not even be real leather for all I know), the boot is entirely synthetic.

[mikawendy]

I just passed pre-bronze in June. Waltz 8 is fun. I always return to it when I am frustrated with practicing. I find it peaceful....
I am usually more careful about not hijacking threads, I am really off topic here, sorry Casey!:halo:

You know, I've always thougth the same thing about the waltz 8. It wasn't on the prebronze test when I took it (I had the dratted alternating 3 turns instead). But I did the waltz 8 in group lessons and then much later in a compulsory moves event at a competition and I felt so calm and organized after doing the waltz 8.


The leatherlike lining on the inside is Clarino (A soft durable man-made leather with a synthetic fibre base layer, a microcellular polyurethane layer and a finish coat simulating the grain of natural leather)

Thanks for the explanation of Clarino! I've always assumed that it was some kind of lambswooly thingy--thanks for clearing up that confusion for me!

[luna_skater]

The leatherlike lining on the inside is Clarino (A soft durable man-made leather with a synthetic fibre base layer, a microcellular polyurethane layer and a finish coat simulating the grain of natural leather), the outer suedelike surface is also synthetic, the top of the tongue is molded plastic, the padding is a foam, and the heel of the boot is a block of plastic that holds screws well with a bit of leather around the outside for traditional appearance. The heel is held on with a metal bolt into the heel that can be seen under the insole (the rest of the bottom under the insole is a white fibrous synthetic material), and the remainder is held on with a couple nails and a lot of glue (which on mine nad many others, cracks over time). Aside from the bottom of the sole (which may or may not even be real leather for all I know), the boot is entirely synthetic.

There is at least some leather according to this: http://www.grafskates.com/kunstlauf.html, and don't forget that not all the Edmonton Specials have the suede finish.

[TaBalie]

"Beige / white: Boot with special Fitting-System, made of first class leather, triple leather sole, excellent side-stability."

I have Grafs, and certainly the exterior is leather, and the sole (I have seen the screw through the leather sole when I have taken my blades off for waterproofing).

Where did you find the information that Grafs were "100% synthetic"? I don't care either way, I love mine, but I am just curious as to where you are getting the information. I do know that Clarino lining is synthetic, as is the foam tongue (as it is on all skates with foam tongues).

[Casey]

I have Grafs, and certainly the exterior is leather, and the sole (I have seen the screw through the leather sole when I have taken my blades off for waterproofing).

I believe that the sole is aside from the block in the middle of the heel, however the exterior (at least on the suede finish ones which are the most popular) is not real suede. I don't know anything about the leather finish ones - I've only seen them in a picture on Graf's site...they may be real. However whatever the outer layer, the inner layers are not all leather either - mine are splitting apart at one of the scallop cuts, and there's a clear layer of plastic (which I've been told is what facilitates the heat molding).

The ones in Europe are also supposedly different than the ones here in the US, because the ones shipped here are actually finished in Canada. But I'm really not trying to turn this into a Graf versus Klingbeil thread - I hope they work out for you - they certainly seem to work well for ice dancers who have them here that put less strain on the boots, and would have been less distressing for somebody with a more conformant foot than me. I've just had nothing but bad experiences with mine and wanted new skates for ages when I couldn't afford them and so now I'm so relieved to finally be rid of them and in boots that actually seem to work better for me. I hope that your Grafs are those boots for you. :)

Where did you find the information that Grafs were "100% synthetic"? I don't care either way, I love mine, but I am just curious as to where you are getting the information. I do know that Clarino lining is synthetic, as is the foam tongue (as it is on all skates with foam tongues).
Well 100% synthetic was a bit of a stretch for the statement of "100% synthetic to 100% natural"...just illustrating the point. I'm pretty confident in a number around 90%, though...

I don't think that synthetic materials are necessarily bad, but I personally am a huge fan of natural materials in all areas of life - I always seek things made of leather, wood, metal, rubber, or glass, in place of plastic, and cotton or wool in place of polyester or other synthetic cloths. They just "feel" better to me. So don't mind me if I'm a bit sensitive to it...I don't mean any harm nor do I intend to impose my choices on others.

Cheers,

[Isk8NYC]

I love the way Jazzpants called these "Bling Bling Skates" in another thread! It's a perfect description!

[VegasGirl]

Nice skates... but what makes them nicer (in appearance) than any other new skates, except ofcourse for the gold blades if that's your thing?

Nice though that they fit so well and that you're thrilled to have them!