how to do backwards crossovers? [Archive]

LilJen

08-01-2006, 04:31 PM

Hi ouijaouija. From someone who's *thisclose* to getting back XOs, I'd recommend these (all of which I'm doing & working on)
-back one-foot glides (keep the free leg close to your skating leg)
-backward half-swizzles to one-foot glide as a prelim to backward stroking
-backward half-swizzles on a circle
-back half-swizzles on a circle, to back outside glide, then put down your other foot for a BI glide. Gets your body used to those edges and gets you used to going backwards.

Once you feel steady on all these then you can start experimenting with actual crossovers. You've only been skating a few weeks, right? Be patient with yourself and your body.

Easton-Skater

08-01-2006, 04:31 PM

That's right. Being able to do one foot glides very well on either leg (and with bent knees) will definitely help with cross-overs in both the forward and reverse direction.

skatingdoris

08-01-2006, 04:35 PM

One foot glides are definatley the way to go, I found that once I was confident going backwards on one foot the crossovers came naturally. - not saying it was easy, but i could actually do the crossover instead of picking my foot up a mm and then putting it straight back down again!

keep practicing :D

ouijaouija

08-01-2006, 05:06 PM

hi all!

thanks, one foot glides i really got to practise those I can't do them well.

BUT I just feel very demoralised, first time since skating, I think my honeymoon period is gone forever.

Things are starting to frustrate me!

ANd besides, its made worst by the fact that everyone appears to be better than me and there is no space to practise, its terrible, no space, it svery busy during the daytime and that is when the skate times are twice as long for the same price

doubletoe

08-01-2006, 05:48 PM

Welcome to life as a skater! I think we all feel the same way: There's never enough good practice ice and you're never progressing fast enough! Most of the time you will be frustrated and feel like you aren't making any measurable progress. Sometimes you'll even feel like you're worse than you were before. But once in awhile you'll have a major breakthrough and you'll be absoutely walking on air! Those are the times that make it all worthwhile. And if you look back just once a year and see all the things you can do this year that you couldn't do last year, that really gives you perspective. :)

beachbabe

08-01-2006, 06:02 PM

work on backwards half swizzle pumps. You jsut keep your inside leg still and pump your outside leg so that you move in a circle. When you get comfortable with that, you start placing the outside foot over the inside foot and eventually pushing your inside foot under your outside foot.

Start with the backward half-swizzle pumps

flippet

08-01-2006, 08:24 PM

Do you have a coach/are you taking lessons? If not, I HIGHLY recommend it. There's only so much you can learn out of a book, or from our suggestions. You really need someone to watch you, and demonstrate for you.

Back crossovers are hard. I consider myself a 'fast learner', but this was the skill that required me to 'repeat' the Beta level. (Basically, I had to work on these for about 14 weeks to get them up to passing level, vs. the usual 7 weeks (or less!) for most other skills. Well, they were probably 'passing' after about 10 weeks or so, but the session wasn't over yet.)

These skills will take you time to learn. They will take even longer to "do"....and longer still to do "well". Don't rush things. When you rush, you learn bad habits (especially when you teach yourself), and bad habits set you back so far that often, you may as well not have tried in the first place, because you end up having to deconstruct everything and start over from the beginning anyway.

mikawendy

08-01-2006, 09:01 PM

Hannah

08-02-2006, 01:22 AM

Both the group and private coach think I should be doing backward crossovers too, and the group coach says "Just pick the foot up and step over!" like it is SO easy. :frus: (He is used to coaching much higher level skaters, but somehow got stuck with the adult group. Not a bad guy at that, but sometimes forgets how hard things are when you start.)

So I've gone all rebel and decided to not try to crossovers backward (because for some reason, that outside foot just WON'T GO), and spend about 90% of my practice time doing slow backward stroking. I'm still not steady with it, and I figure I should be before I try to talk my feet into something that seems impossible...

And I second (or third?) the suggestion to find a coach, even for one private lesson every two weeks- I'm glad I found one, because I was working on all sorts of bad habits that she managed to catch before they were permanent.

Easton-Skater

08-02-2006, 02:52 AM

I think leg strengthening and balancing exercises off the ice can help a lot with cross-overs. Like, stand on 1 leg and have a chair or something next to you to hold onto. Then try to balance on that leg while keeping a good posture, then bend the knee to lower yourself a bit while maintaining balanced. You can bend the knee a little, or a lot. And you can keep doing that for a while. Then change to the other leg. Of course, the legs also naturally get stronger when you're on the ice too. Strong legs and being able to balance well while standing on either leg goes a long way toward cross-overs and many other skating exercises.

AndreaUK

08-02-2006, 07:19 AM

Hi

I finally got mine on Monday, backward crossovers in both directions and I was elated.

I think for me what stopped me doing them sooner was the complete fear I felt in crossing my legs going backwards. I was terrified that I was going to fall and really hurt myself badly again ( i knocked myself unconscious in March) At the end of the day I decided that I really must lose that fear or its going to hold me back with everything that I do. I told myself yes I can do it and yes I will do it and with this attitude I finally got them in both directions.

I think one of the main things with them is be confident about gliding backwards on one leg, it may be an idea to have your backwards edges sorted too. I also found that you cannot do this without bending your knees and personally I found it a little easier for myself to lean slightly forward so as not to be tempted to lean on to the back part of my blade resulting in a fall.

Sometimes If I cant get something, I will work on something else, maybe another skill that I have been shown. I often find that if I master a skill thats considered a little 'harder' when I go back to the manoever that I was struggling with it has become much easier.

I dont know about anyone else but since I got the backward stroking, chasse pushes and crossovers, I much prefer to skate backwards than forwards. I dont know why this is but I just feel more comfortable now going backwards.

I hope that you manage to do them soon. Are you having coaching? becuase it may be an idea to have a coach and take propper lessons where you can be shown technique rather than just pick from a book. Having said that different methods work for different people but I wouldnt trade my coach for anything in the world

Andrea xx

Mrs Redboots

08-02-2006, 07:44 AM

i can stroke backwards, but i can't really do extended one foot glides, should i be pratising thi first before learning bac crosses?? I can't get this at all ARGH!

the book si say, say things like 'mearn skateboard pushes' which I know but I can't see how that helps with them!They are a very hard move for a beginner; I'm not sure what SkateUK level they come in, but I don't think it's for the first several.

And you will be working on them forever - even when you are a high level skater, you'll be practising your crossovers.

Don't be disheartened. Skating, as you are discovering, isn't a matter of smooth, level progress. It's sort of jagged, like a mountain range. You climb a peak, and then for weeks nothing much seems to happen, then all of a sudden everything gets better again, then for weeks.... etc.... Just practice the skills you can do, and the drills your coach has given you. You'll get there in the end.

And August is a horrible month for practice! Things will improve when September comes and school starts again.... one week into the summer holidays and I could wish that there wasn't a whole month before term starts!

sarahg

08-02-2006, 09:21 AM

They are a very hard move for a beginner; I'm not sure what SkateUK level they come in, but I don't think it's for the first several.

Having just started learning mine, I can say that they don't come in to Skate UK until level 7. Up until that point Skate UK focuses on getting you very comfortable with your backward skating and gliding on one foot backwards (for at least a count of 3). Backward chasses are then introduced in level 6 with crossovers in level 7.

Interestingly backward edges (particularly the outside one) aren't introduced till levels 8 and 9. I've found that I am having difficulty in maintaining a backward outside edge on both the chasses and the crossovers and so my coach and I have decided to work on the edge first, even though it comes up later in the Skate UK hierarchy (one of the benefits of private rather than group lessons).

But I would re-iterate what has already been said. Crossover technique is so important that I would wait until you have a coach to show you the correct way of doing it otherwise getting out of your bad habits will be difficult and time consuming. I think your group lessons start again in September don't they? I know it seems a long time away but I really would use the time to focus on your backward stroking and more basic things. That way you will be ready to progress through the early Skate UK levels quickly and you will be learning crossovers in no time at all (and trust me, once you start doing them you get to do a LOT of them, so I wouldn't be in too much of a rush! :mrgreen: ).

CFP

08-02-2006, 01:48 PM

hi there..
well, backward crossovers came VERY easy to me [taught myself at age 6,]-- it's going FORWARD that really annoys me!!:frus:
'beachbabe' is dead on. do lots of one foot pumps on the circle....you've got to learn to get control of the 'outside' foot- ]the one thats making HALF of an hourglass shape].

also,, think of your butt reaching back for a chair to sit in. -- however, don't let your chest collapse downward when you do that.
hope that'll give you a visual to work with!:)

froggy

08-02-2006, 07:01 PM

i think i may be an exception but back crossovers came much easier than forward and i can do back crossovers in both directions far better than forward. once you get the hang of them you'll see how impt back crossovers are.. and you'd be suprised how much speed you can pick up with them. its worth spending a lot of time on them, if you look at any skating program back crossovers are used a lot to get from one end of the rink to the other, and are used a lot in preparing for jump entrances. as you practice they'll get smoother and with more flow, (think of the edges when doing them and also remember to twist your upper body in the direction your are skating, it may help to think of looking at your pinky fingerr of the arm extended in back of you-that helps make sure you are looking behind you) when done well i think back crossovers are beautiful! :yum:

froggy

08-02-2006, 07:04 PM

oops forgot to add, a coach one time told me think of yourself as a spring coil, flexible but strong, keep your upper body stable like the post above said about sitting in a chair, your lower body shoud be doing the movement, no bopping up and down nor breaking over at the waist. your thighs may be sore at the start but they will get used to it.

Clare

08-03-2006, 05:01 PM

And August is a horrible month for practice! Things will improve when September comes and school starts again.... one week into the summer holidays and I could wish that there wasn't a whole month before term starts!

Oh, that gives me such hope- thank you!! I'm starting to wonder how I'll ever improve my clockwise crossovers when there is not a chance of grabbing a hockey circle but I will be patient.

I'm kind of hoping for a return of the heatwave- the public sessions were so quiet when it was really hot- we are a nation of lunatics who complain about the heat yet sit out and melt in it. If it means no-one wants to be in a nice, cold rink, it works for me!!

Clare

jwrnsktr

08-05-2006, 08:26 AM

This is going to sound crazy, but if you have a stairway nearby, walk up it sideways with the foot on the lower step crossing over the foot on the higher step. This will give you just a little bit of confidence in transferring your weight and it will strengthen you muscles. It might be all you need! Also, there are some givens in the skating world: someone will always be progressing faster than you. The only person you should compare yourself to EVER, EVER, EVER is YOURSELF. Only monitor your own progress. And, the only thing that gets in the way of progress is getting frustrated. Also, there will be days when the ice is crappy, when there are a million speedy kids on the ice, when it's too cold, too hot, whatever. You can always find a small spot to practice something on. Even if it's only two xo's in a row. And, there will be those glorious days when you practically have the rink to yourself and you'll find that you won't know what to do with so much ice! And, so it goes.....Good luck!

russiet

08-05-2006, 08:34 AM

Make sure to pay attention to your instructor!

In January 2005, I could do back c.o. BUT my posture was all wrong and I continually scraped my toe picks.

One year later, I wasn't much more improved.

My instructor picked on one thing (it might be something different for you); my hips were rotating and not held square over my skates. He told me to imagine a string at my hip that was attached to the center of the circle.

I took this to heart and made it a mission to practice every time I was on the ice.

Well, by March 2006 things were a lot better. I still don't have as much power as with my fwd c.o., but paying attention to my coach and drilling regularly solved a lot of the problems.

I wish I had a "before" video" because mine were so hideous. Here's the improved version, what I consider as a work-in-progress:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQPNYEmBQjs

CFP is on the camera. She's helped a lot by videoing me way too much. I think I might finally be getting over my camera fright.

Skate@Delaware

08-05-2006, 10:10 AM

Your crossovers are very nice! (and your friend is sooo funny, I love the comments she makes!) You really get down in the knees. I need to work on that more, as well as sitting back (and getting my feet closer "neat feet" my coach calls them). I wish my rink had a mirror so I could actually see how close my feet are getting....

I try to practice crossovers every time I hit the ice, depending on how crowded it is. I start with alternating crossovers (great for when it is crowded) and spend some times doing back crossovers if not too crowded...zinging in between the kids. Otherwise I hit the circle and try not to run over anyone...

ouijaouija

08-05-2006, 05:10 PM

i went today and i tried doing some crossovers but for some reason when i try them i end up turning my body and then i am looking forward!

i really need to wait for my next tuition thing, but i practsed some backward skating but it is so busy at the rink I don't have confidence in skating fast when it is busy. not only that it is very wet too.

but OMG, fresh cut ice feels amazing, so smooth!

Easton-Skater

08-05-2006, 06:44 PM

i went today and i tried doing some crossovers but for some reason when i try them i end up turning my body and then i am looking forward!
*snip*

I think you're supposed to be looking forward if you're doing crossovers in the forward direction.

Skate@Delaware

08-05-2006, 07:03 PM

I always try to look "down my arm" and make sure it's pointing in the direction I need to be going....it helps me to look where I'm going; turn my torso; sit back more on the back part of my blades (less scratchy toepicks...)

mikawendy

08-05-2006, 07:34 PM

I wish I had a "before" video" because mine were so hideous. Here's the improved version, what I consider as a work-in-progress:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQPNYEmBQjs

CFP is on the camera. She's helped a lot by videoing me way too much. I think I might finally be getting over my camera fright.

I love CFP's running commentary in the video! :lol: :lol:

russiet

08-06-2006, 08:11 AM

I love CFP's running commentary in the video! :lol: :lol:

We seem to have many unplanned comedy skits on ice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drSK8JneC2Q

But why is it that I'm always the straight man in the routine????

In actuality, we help each other a lot. CFP makes me be more relaxed and more expressive on ice. I think (although she may not agree) I get CFP to drill more on the basics (that she tends to ignore).

Our differences are that she was doing b.c.o. when she was 6 & I was just starteing to skate when I was 46! She moves more naturally than I do and flows on the ice. I drill ad-nauseum until I feel comfortable with a single element.

mikawendy

08-06-2006, 02:51 PM

We seem to have many unplanned comedy skits on ice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drSK8JneC2Q

But why is it that I'm always the straight man in the routine????

Well, you could always trade places w/CFP and be the one doing the camera work and the running commentary! :lol: :lol: Or, if she won't let you do that, then more ehrm... hand gestures.....

russiet

08-06-2006, 05:38 PM

Well, you could always trade places w/CFP and be the one doing the camera work and the running commentary! :lol: :lol: Or, if she won't let you do that, then more ehrm... hand gestures.....

I have quite a few videos I've taken of CFP, but they aren't for me to post. I'd like to, but I know better. I'll encourage her to share.

BTW, she's better at the hand gestures that I am!

Jon

ouijaouija

08-06-2006, 06:05 PM

i made progress, backward crossovers! only they were slow, and also i scratch the toepicks a lot...

russiet

08-07-2006, 05:39 AM

i made progress, backward crossovers! only they were slow, and also i scratch the toepicks a lot...

That's fantastic!

CFP

08-07-2006, 01:54 PM

i made progress, backward crossovers! only they were slow, and also i scratch the toepicks a lot...
cool! what did you do differently?

ok,russiet, if i'm going to be 'on camera' more, i shall get more creative with my commentary!:P
don't let him fool you,,, you should see how he puffs up when he knows i'm taping him:lol: ... but it's good for his posture! he also likes to wear pink tiara's when he skates,,, i have proof. if i can ever figure out to get them 'here'... ha ha,, i have some goodies!:lol:
i love skating backward, he loves skating forward, so yeah, we help each other....but i'm not the princess at our arena, HE is, so no movies of me,, unless seeking advice..:)

Skate@Delaware

08-07-2006, 04:28 PM

cool! what did you do differently?

ok,russiet, if i'm going to be 'on camera' more, i shall get more creative with my commentary!:P
don't let him fool you,,, you should see how he puffs up when he knows i'm taping him:lol: ... but it's good for his posture! he also likes to wear pink tiara's when he skates,,, i have proof. if i can ever figure out to get them 'here'... ha ha,, i have some goodies!:lol:

i love skating backward, he loves skating forward, so yeah, we help each other....but i'm not the princess at our arena, HE is, so no movies of me,, unless seeking advice..:)
I have an idea....you should start a series "How to..." skating moves! Start from the very basics. (even funnier would be a series "What NOT TO DO..." a commentary of common skating mistakes...:lol: or how to deal with other skaters...how to hip-check annoying hockey boys and their dads, etc.). Anyway, I love your commentary! It's hilarious!

ouijaouija

08-07-2006, 04:30 PM

i've seen your vids on youtube, i even pm you russiet, i only just realised it was you!

and th elady in the voice, you both sound liek a married couple or something :)

About backwards crossovers, can one feet remain on the ice, because thats how i am doing it?

dbny

08-07-2006, 05:05 PM

About backwards crossovers, can one feet remain on the ice, because thats how i am doing it?

Yes. Picking up the crossing foot is a matter of style. Some do and some don't. I prefer not to, but picking up that foot can be a good teaching/learning technique.

CFP

08-07-2006, 07:18 PM

jeez, i have a HORRIBLE time picking up my feet,,, i'm learning forward crossovers alot better by doing the 'progressives'....

ok guys, i THINK i have you tube figured out.. i'm going to try to put up a couple very short, silly clips of russiet,, since he digs the applause! hee hee..

but 'delaware'... i agree!! we should start some kind of thread, or area where you can post incriminating movies of your pals!! good fun:twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV4WM0oj16g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAUhtZGKUrY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Vu0a-ddw8

ok, that's enough,,, whew, this takes a while to get the hang of..
oh i'm FAITHCP---CFP was taken
hope you get a giggle!:P

mikawendy

08-07-2006, 07:57 PM

but 'delaware'... i agree!! we should start some kind of thread, or area where you can post incriminating movies of your pals!! good fun:twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV4WM0oj16g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAUhtZGKUrY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Vu0a-ddw8

ok, that's enough,,, whew, this takes a while to get the hang of..
oh i'm FAITHCP---CFP was taken
hope you get a giggle!:P

You know what makes me giggle--the fact that I finally get russiet's siggy line after reading yours.... tee hee :lol: :lol: