testing adult vs standard track

[froggy]

I'm thinking of maybe taking my first test in late fall (my waltz 8 needs a lot of help still). my coach thinks I should go on the adult track. I'd like some other skaters opinions what track I should go on. Is it true that testing on the standard track is very tough? personally, my goal is to skate the very best I can with good quality, what tests I pass is really irrevelant and I have no plans to go competetive.

[TimDavidSkate]

adult track :halo: yes judges will be unforgiving with standard track, i unfortunately have experienced it 8O , adult is given some lee-ways, if you look at a trial judging form and see what it says on "adult expectations" you will feel better, heck I did, it was a relief knowing they wont tell you how many times your edges skid and your toe scraped the ice :frus:

[Terri C]

adult track :halo: yes judges will be unforgiving with standard track, i unfortunately have experienced it 8O , adult is given some lee-ways, if you look at a trial judging form and see what it says on "adult expectations" you will feel better, heck I did, it was a relief knowing they wont tell you how many times your edges skid and your toe scraped the ice :frus:

Not exactly!
Some adult moves tests are judged just as tougher than the kids' are! My Bronze moves test forms from March have comments about scratchy toe picks and three turns placed too early.
I've also heard the same from fellow adult skaters- that the adult moves tests are judged as if it's a standard track test!

[jazzpants]

adult track :halo: yes judges will be unforgiving with standard track, i unfortunately have experienced it 8O , adult is given some lee-ways, if you look at a trial judging form and see what it says on "adult expectations" you will feel better, heck I did, it was a relief knowing they wont tell you how many times your edges skid and your toe scraped the ice :frus:Would you like to tell that to some of my skating judges over here in California? :twisted:

Trust me, in MY neck of the woods, they're just as strict as the standard track skaters on moves. And I've made sure this time that the moves I have now are strong enough to pass standard... :frus:

[froggy]

are some club testing sessions more tough than others? I'm currently with the SCNY (skating club of new york).

[TimDavidSkate]

well I guess I got lucky with some panel of judges :giveup: lucky you guys :bow:

[TimDavidSkate]

are some club testing sessions more tough than others? I'm currently with the SCNY (skating club of new york).

I heard that one specifically!!! OMG 8O

[froggy]

I heard that one specifically!!! OMG 8O


:giveup: great my darn luck. although my coach is really nit picky with edges so I'm used to trying to skate under high expectations but I still do need some mercy. :cry:

anyone out there who has tested with SCNY let me know what your experience is...is it worth looking for another club to guest test at??

[Hannahclear]

I'd go with the adult track if I were you. Chances are, if you are like most adults, you have limited ice time, coaching resources and maybe some physical barriers.

The adult track is designed just for us. It's not quite the same thing as having easier standards. Standards are relaxed, but there are still standards. You have to be able to do the moves correctly. More leeway is given, but you can't just do anything.

And so much depends on the club where you test......

[TimDavidSkate]

:giveup: great my darn luck. although my coach is really nit picky with edges so I'm used to trying to skate under high expectations but I still do need some mercy. :cry:

anyone out there who has tested with SCNY let me know what your experience is...is it worth looking for another club to guest test at??

Try guesting with North Jersey FSC, they are extremely nice and welcoming. its my home club too. I know its too late and you already are a member of SCNY, its just far too expensive, its just the name and comes along the expectations... join us at NJFSC :) next season ... who do you take from? and where do you skate?

[beachbabe]

if you dont plan to compete just test standard- there are more levels and you never know how good you might get.

pulling up the handy usfsa website: the adult track freestyle tests don't look to challenging and while i bet in competition gold level skaters are probably above an axel- if you dont plan to compete you'll have the opportunity for more levels as you improve.

One of my mother's friends tested up to novice level in MIF and Intermediate FS and she started skating in her twenties i think.

[Thin-Ice]

You CAN test both tracks at the same time. And some test sessions are tougher than others, because you have different panels of judges -- and each judge has his/her own standards. The judges are supposed to be judging within the guidelines listed on the test forms (read those on the test form.. it will give you an idea of what quality the judges are looking for) -- but one judge's idea of what is "fair" and what is "good" may not be the same for all judges. I notice here in California MOST judges hold adults to the same standard as the kids on the various elements and tests. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[Mrs Redboots]

Aren't you lucky to have an adult track to test! In most countries, you test standard track or not at all....

[techskater]

Also remember, once you pass your Gold tests you can continue on the standard track beginning at the Intermediate MIF test. It enables adults to get a Gold test medal when they can't do doubles.

[Debbie S]

pulling up the handy usfsa website: the adult track freestyle tests don't look to challenging and while i bet in competition gold level skaters are probably above an axel- if you dont plan to compete you'll have the opportunity for more levels as you improve.Wow, talk about a snarky - and misinformed - post. :twisted:

The adult FS tests are basically the same as the kids' tests at the corresponding levels. To an advanced skater, Pre-Bronze FS may not look "challenging", but I guess so would Pre-Preliminary FS - and that advanced skater was a Pre-Pre once.:roll: There are a few minor variations - Bronze FS requires a toe loop instead of the flip on Prelim FS; OTOH, on the Bronze FS test, your forward upright needs to be 4 revs, whereas on Prelim, it's 3 revs. Silver is very similar to Pre-Juv (I think the only difference is a change-foot spin is optional in Silver (as part of the combo spin) and in Pre-Juv it's required. Gold and Juv are identical, I think.

If adults improve enough to pass the higher-level tests, as techskater pointed out, they can just move to the Intermediate tests after passing Gold.

[Joan]

As many others have already said, do adult track now. You can always do standard track later, or even overlapping your adult track progression. Even if the judges on your panel use the same test expectations for the particular move as they would for that move on the standard track, you at least don't have all the same moves. For example, in the adult track, we don't have to do those dreaded three-turns along a line (which are in Preliminary; they used to be in pre-bronze with an allowance for a two-footed transition, but were taken out as of Sept. 1 of last year).

[jazzpants]

For example, in the adult track, we don't have to do those dreaded three-turns along a line (which are in Preliminary; they used to be in pre-bronze with an allowance for a two-footed transition, but were taken out as of Sept. 1 of last year).Those prelim alt-3's ARE dreadful... BUT they did come in very handy for those power 3's later on in the Bronze Moves test (well, at least the FO3 portion of the alt 3's...)

I haven't decided what I'm going to do with standard vs. adult moves. I was considering doing going off adult moves for a while and take advantage of the grandfathering system b/c it's easier for me to get the building blocks needed to work up to higher level moves. (Back power 3's, for instance, which are NOT on any of the adult track moves test, will defnitely be needed for the Int. Moves tests.) But... I WANT THAT GOLD PIN TOO!!! :twisted:

How's this idea? I was thinking about skipping Silver Moves to work on the standard track up to Juv and then get back into adult track working on Gold Moves for that pin! (Hmmmm? Can I flip-flop like that...or do I have to stick to a track? What's the offical (judges) word on this? Do you guys frown on "track hopping?")

[jazzpants]

pulling up the handy usfsa website: the adult track freestyle tests don't look to challenging and while i bet in competition gold level skaters are probably above an axel- if you dont plan to compete you'll have the opportunity for more levels as you improve.Gold level skaters are above an axel b/c the axel is on the Gold FS test (http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_rules/singles_fs_test_elements_adult.htm)! In fact, I believe at the Championship Adult Gold level that you can skate up to a double loop IIRC.

[Debbie S]

How's this idea? I was thinking about skipping Silver Moves to work on the standard track up to Juv and then get back into adult track working on Gold Moves for that pin! (Hmmmm? Can I flip-flop like that...or do I have to stick to a track? What's the offical (judges) word on this? Do you guys frown on "track hopping?")I would imagine you could do this, but you would have to pass Silver FS after passing Juv MIF. Then, your next MIF test on the adult track would be Gold, b/c being at Silver FS level would prevent you from having to take Silver MIF.

[doubletoe]

Not exactly!
Some adult moves tests are judged just as tougher than the kids' are! My Bronze moves test forms from March have comments about scratchy toe picks and three turns placed too early.
I've also heard the same from fellow adult skaters- that the adult moves tests are judged as if it's a standard track test!

But is it because you're taking the adult track test or is it because you're an adult? My guess is that it's because you're an adult, and if you were an adult taking a standard track test, they would be even less forgiving.

[doubletoe]

How's this idea? I was thinking about skipping Silver Moves to work on the standard track up to Juv and then get back into adult track working on Gold Moves for that pin! (Hmmmm? Can I flip-flop like that...or do I have to stick to a track? What's the offical (judges) word on this? Do you guys frown on "track hopping?")

Or you can have your coach teach you all of the Pre-Juv and Juv moves and you can practice them but not test them. That way, you don't have to deal with the higher passing standard on the standard track tests, but you still get the benefit of the extra building blocks. My guess is that it will take you less time to pass the Adult Gold test by keeping all your actual tests on the Adult Track. Then you've just got to learn the back power 3's and you can test Intermediate after Adult Gold. :)

[flo]

If you want to compete as an adult, even later on, I'd do the adult track. If you want to test for testing's sake, it does not matter, with the understanding that the passing scores may be different. Also, even if the passing requirement is lower, it doesn't mean you can't skate well above it! It does get complicated going back and forth!

[jazzpants]

I would imagine you could do this, but you would have to pass Silver FS after passing Juv MIF. Then, your next MIF test on the adult track would be Gold, b/c being at Silver FS level would prevent you from having to take Silver MIF.Is this true??? I thought you can just work on the next Adult track moves afterwards and that the FS test is independent of which moves test you're eligible to test for. (i.e. Ultimate goal is I want to get my Gold pin in Gold MIF and later on for Gold FS.)

Or you can have your coach teach you all of the Pre-Juv and Juv moves and you can practice them but not test them. That way, you don't have to deal with the higher passing standard on the standard track tests, but you still get the benefit of the extra building blocks. My guess is that it will take you less time to pass the Adult Gold test by keeping all your actual tests on the Adult Track. Then you've just got to learn the back power 3's and you can test Intermediate after Adult Gold. :)True... I could do that. I'm not too fond of testing anyway. It's something to talk to the coaches about.

The other reason I'm considering it is mainly that I want to avoid a situation a couple of years back where all the adult track moves got changed around. I'm thankful that the Bronze Moves was NOT impacted much by the changes. But I don't want the situation where I'm working on Adult Silver Moves elements and then finding out a year down the line that I wasted time working on a move element that's now obsolete and having to pick up a NEW moves element to learn. If it takes me this long to have a remote chance in hell at passing Bronze Moves, I don't wanna imagine how long it would take me to pass Silver Moves...never mind having to deal with the distractions of moves elements changes. 8O :frus:

[renatele]

I would imagine you could do this, but you would have to pass Silver FS after passing Juv MIF. Then, your next MIF test on the adult track would be Gold, b/c being at Silver FS level would prevent you from having to take Silver MIF.

Nope, no need for silver FS:



Page 343 in 2006 rulebook (TR 19.02 C):

Adult skaters who have passed standard track moves in the field tests will not be required to take adult MIF tests per the table below:

Standard track MIF passed.................Adult MITF test not required
Preliminary MIF....................................Adult pre-bronze MIF
Pre-juvenile MIF..................................Adult bronze MIF
Juvenile MIF.......................................Adult silver MIF
Intermediate MIF.................................Adult gold MIF



As you can see, if you pass juv MIF, you can straight test gold MIF, no need to take silver FS in order to do it.

jazzpants: that's what I most likely will end up doing - passing juv MIF, then taking gold MIF, then back to intermediate.

[Debbie S]

I would check on that. My understanding is that only applies to what FS tests an adult is eligible to take if they skated as a kid and passed some of the lower-level tests (so not Masters) so they don't have to go back and start testing from the beginning when they become old enough to take adult tests (it's a 3-part crossover rule). There is a rule about needing to take MIF tests in order, so it would seem that in order to take Gold MIF, you would need to either pass Silver MIF or be "grandfathered" into Silver FS w/o needing to take Silver MIF (such as by passing Juv MIF).

[flo]

I believe if you want to take gold free, you have to have silver free (or equivalent). It's too screwy. I'm better off now going to intermediate moves, as I could then, if I wanted for some unknown reason, take the intermediate pairs test (my next pairs test) and adult gold fs (my next fs test). I guess to get a gold pin in pairs, I could go back and take the gold pairs, although that's where I am now with a std. juvenile pairs test.

Why I skate interpretive.

[jazzpants]

I would check on that. My understanding is that only applies to what FS tests an adult is eligible to take if they skated as a kid and passed some of the lower-level tests (so not Masters) so they don't have to go back and start testing from the beginning when they become old enough to take adult tests (it's a 3-part crossover rule). There is a rule about needing to take MIF tests in order, so it would seem that in order to take Gold MIF, you would need to either pass Silver MIF or be "grandfathered" into Silver FS w/o needing to take Silver MIF (such as by passing Juv MIF).Here's what I got from the USFSA website. (I don't have the current rulebook on me here...)

http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/05Adults-ROA.pdf (Go to Proposal A on page 3-4 of this doc.)

According to this, if I pass Juv Moves, I can skip Silver Moves and take Gold Moves. I don't have to also take Silver FS to be eligible for Gold Moves.

You know... this could be a pointless discussion and my coaches will make me do adult track whether I like it or not...never mind I still have to pass the dreaded Bronze moves test this week! :twisted: :lol: (But it's nice to know what my options are...) ;)

[Debbie S]

You know... this could be a pointless discussion and my coaches will make me do adult track whether I like it or not... :twisted: :lol: (But it's nice to know what my options are...) ;)Well, you could point out to them that all of the Silver moves are on one of the standard track tests, so you'll test them anyway. ;)

I have thought about going back and testing Pre-Prelim and Prelim MIF, and then Pre-Juv and Juv at some point, but I decided against it, namely b/c of the expense (and I don't really like testing - lol) and b/c I realized that I would only miss a few standard track moves by doing adult track (I took the Pre-Bronze test with the alt 3's) and I could always learn them w/o actually testing them.

[jazzpants]

b/c I realized that I would only miss a few standard track moves by doing adult track (I took the Pre-Bronze test with the alt 3's) and I could always learn them w/o actually testing them.Yup! Of course, can I trust myself to start work on the back power 3's while I'm still working on Silver Moves knowing I have enough on my plate as is! LOL!!! :twisted: :lol:

[badaxel]

anyone out there who has tested with SCNY let me know what your experience is...is it worth looking for another club to guest test at??

I took my Pre Bronze MIF and FS and my Silver FS at SCNY, as a guest. I didn't like it very much because I felt that the people there were not very friendly. That could be because I was a guest there, though. Also, there were many, many fees, like ice time, and it was very expensive. As for the difficulty, I started testing after a lot of years skating, so the PB tests were really easy. The Silver test I thought my marks were accurate for what I did. However, at my home club, Rye FSC, I took the Silver MIF. It was really bad, and I even tripped during the mohawk sequence. I passed easily. So, maybe some clubs are a little more lenient than others.
I definitely agree that the adult track is the way to go, and if you do decide to compete, you will be all set!

[doubletoe]

Yup! Of course, can I trust myself to start work on the back power 3's while I'm still working on Silver Moves knowing I have enough on my plate as is! LOL!!! :twisted: :lol:

If you ask your coach to MAKE you do them in your lessons, then at least you'll be forced to do them during your lessons. And as a result, you'll probably end up practicing them outside of your lessons just so you don't have to waste so much lesson time (read, "money") on a move that isn't improving, LOL!

[jazzpants]

If you ask your coach to MAKE you do them in your lessons, then at least you'll be forced to do them during your lessons. And as a result, you'll probably end up practicing them outside of your lessons just so you don't have to waste so much lesson time (read, "money") on a move that isn't improving, LOL!AHHHH!!! A gal that $peaks my language! :twisted: :mrgreen: :lol: (Of course, you're talkin' to a gal who's a big freakin' chicken and takes forever to learn anything!!! Boc boc boc!!! LOL!!!)

[froggy]

Try guesting with North Jersey FSC, they are extremely nice and welcoming. its my home club too. I know its too late and you already are a member of SCNY, its just far too expensive, its just the name and comes along the expectations... join us at NJFSC :) next season ... who do you take from? and where do you skate?

i skate primarily at long beach

thanks everyone for your advice, from what i gather the majority opinion is test adult track and if i wish to later move onto the standard track. to think at this point of working on any of the gold MITF..it sounds so out of reach for me at this point since I'm so on the bottom of the totem pole in skating. but i guess hey you never know! thanks all!!

[e-skater]

adult track :halo: yes judges will be unforgiving with standard track, i unfortunately have experienced it 8O , adult is given some lee-ways, if you look at a trial judging form and see what it says on "adult expectations" you will feel better, heck I did, it was a relief knowing they wont tell you how many times your edges skid and your toe scraped the ice :frus:

Wow. I strongly disagree with you. I think we need whatever judges you've seen at our rink. I've seen our judges pass a kid on a specific moves element, then turn around in the same test session and flunk an adult on that same particular moves element, even though it appeared to all of us the adult skated that test element better! :roll:

From my own testing experience, which is limited, as I didn't start skating until I was 48 (I've only tested APB, AB moves, Prelim Ice Dances,
one PB Ice Dance, and some misc. ISI tests), I do not think our judges give adults any leeway. At all.

I had more comments than seemed to be able to fit on my Adult Bronze moves test sheets. Very detailed, very specific. Nothing left out. And you know when you hit your toe, or most of the time if you fudge an edge a bit. They absolutely told me everything, good and bad. Which I was grateful for. Because that's what helps you improve. Rather than being discounted and dismissed at the outset merely because you are an older adult!

Actually, I'm majorly stressing right now 8O , as I have a test coming up and I'm worried that our judges will retry me on my "adult sit spin" even if everything else is absolutely perfect (which--when does that ever occur?! Maybe for YOU, TD, but it has not yet for me! :) )

I was hoping that this "continuous strength and flow" wording might have already started seeping into the judges' perceptions as they watch skaters like me.....but I can't count on that. That's for sure. Plus, that change supposedly does not occur until 9-06 (I think).....so it wouldn't apply to me during this test anyway. I think there's an kid testing Intermediate Freeskate right before me. JOY! :evil:

[doubletoe]

AHHHH!!! A gal that $peaks my language! :twisted: :mrgreen: :lol: (Of course, you're talkin' to a gal who's a big freakin' chicken and takes forever to learn anything!!! Boc boc boc!!! LOL!!!)

Well, if it's any consolation, it's taking me months and months (okay, months of not-very-concentrated effort, but still. . .) to conquer the perimeter power 3's move for the Intermediate test. And that's just one move! :frus:

[beachbabe]

Wow, talk about a snarky - and misinformed - post. :twisted:

The adult FS tests are basically the same as the kids' tests at the corresponding levels. To an advanced skater, Pre-Bronze FS may not look "challenging", but I guess so would Pre-Preliminary FS - and that advanced skater was a Pre-Pre once.:roll: There are a few minor variations - Bronze FS requires a toe loop instead of the flip on Prelim FS; OTOH, on the Bronze FS test, your forward upright needs to be 4 revs, whereas on Prelim, it's 3 revs. Silver is very similar to Pre-Juv (I think the only difference is a change-foot spin is optional in Silver (as part of the combo spin) and in Pre-Juv it's required. Gold and Juv are identical, I think.

If adults improve enough to pass the higher-level tests, as techskater pointed out, they can just move to the Intermediate tests after passing Gold.

if she plans to test just for the sake of it and not to compete...why does it matter so much if the tests cover the same moves.

and you have just proved my point that after you get to a certain level there are no more adult tests to take. Whereas standard has intermediate, novice, junior and senior left.

and everyone here is saying the judges are just as strict...so what's the point?

[Hannahclear]

to think at this point of working on any of the gold MITF..it sounds so out of reach for me at this point since I'm so on the bottom of the totem pole in skating.

Hey, I passed Prebronze last summer, bottom of the heap, and I passed Bronze Moves this June. Ten months of hard work. You can do it! :D

Not that Gold Moves is coming up any time soon for me (heh heh), but there's lots to learn as an adult and milestones along the way. Enjoy all your accomplishments and good luck!

Jazzpants, good luck this week! I hope you pass!

[mikawendy]

If you want to compete as an adult, even later on, I'd do the adult track.

That's right--I think I remember someone posting something similar a while ago.... I think the gist was that in adult competitions, the standard tests can disqualify you for a level (meaning if you have a certain standard test you can compete no higher than a certain level in the competition) but only the adult tests can qualify you for competing at a certain level.

(I hope I'm not getting that horribly wrong, but that's what I remember...and a quick glance at this past year's AN competition announcement (http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/events/200506/usadultchamps/2006%20US%20Adult%20Championships%20Final%20Announ cement.pdf) confirms that)

[froggy]

good luck jazzpants.


ok i think im going to have a talk with my coach this week and set a time frame/goal to take my test in late fall/early winter and then up my lessons to 2x/week with one of the lessons soley focused on my pre-bronze MITF and I'm sure she'll have me also work on some MITF from higher tests as well. (I've been working on things like power pulls and power 3's for the past several months anyhow).

[skaternum]

I think the gist was that in adult competitions, the standard tests can disqualify you for a level (meaning if you have a certain standard test you can compete no higher than a certain level in the competition) but only the adult tests can qualify you for competing at a certain level.That is correct, but applies only to FREESKATING tests, not Moves in the Field.

[cecealias]

Go Standard Track Moves if you want a better foundation, have no physical limitations, time and don't mind the long term crawl up the levels.

Go with Adult track if you have some physical limitations and time and money limitations, want to compete adult track.

Also if you have the right temperament and physical condition for it, i think standard track is better.
Temperament - as in willing to take risks, perseverence, patience, willing to seek refinement in endless repetition.
Physical condition - as in flexible enough physically to handle spirals, core and upper body twisting, and ability to bend knees and ankles considerably.

[Debbie S]

Temperament - as in willing to take risks, perseverence, patience, willing to seek refinement in endless repetition.
Physical condition - as in flexible enough physically to handle spirals, core and upper body twisting, and ability to bend knees and ankles considerably.Um, how is this different from the adult track? Remember, we're really talking about the differences between Pre-Bronze through Gold and Pre-Prelim through Juv - then adults can move to the Intermediate test and go up from there if they want, which is where I think your observations come into play.

True, the Prelim spirals are not on the adult track (is that what you were referring to about spirals?), but the Pre-Prelim spirals are, and since most of the moves in the first 4 standard track tests are on the adult tests, I'm not sure there is any more core and upper body twisting, knee and ankle bending, risk-taking, and repetition in practice in the standard track than there is in the adult track. And as many have posted, many judges apply the same standard to a particular move regardless of the test it's on.

As for the temperament issue, I think you need plenty of patience, perseverance, and repetition to pass the adult moves tests - I know I did with Bronze, and I'm sure Silver will be even worse - lol.

[TimDavidSkate]

Wow. I strongly disagree with you. :evil:

sure ok, its just based on my personal experience, thas all :giveup:

[Hannahclear]

I'm sure Silver will be even worse - lol.

Silver is damn hard. At least eighteen months I think now for me. Have you started yet?

[TimDavidSkate]

Silver is damn hard. At least eighteen months I think now for me. Have you started yet?

For some reason it is :x I failed twice already :oops:

[Joan]

I've been working on Silver MIF for a year, and I'm no-where near having passing-level 8-step mohawk or 3-turns in the field. If I'm lucky, I'll be ready in 6 months.

[jazzpants]

For some reason it is :x I failed twice already :oops:So... when are you taking it again? 3rd time's the charm, 'ya know... (Well, at least I hope it is for me!!!) :mrgreen:

[Hannahclear]

Heh. I just learned how to do eight step mohawk. In one direction. And I have to repeat this pattern? Right away? And then do the same thing in the opposite direction?

Heh.

Silver really is a big step up from bronze. I started with a little Bronze background, but I'm beginning to see just how easy Bronze was to learn compared to Silver.

[TimDavidSkate]

So... when are you taking it again? 3rd time's the charm, 'ya know... (Well, at least I hope it is for me!!!) :mrgreen:


tentatively this month,:halo:

[Debbie S]

Silver is damn hard. At least eighteen months I think now for me. Have you started yet?Yep, I've been working on them for about 2-3 months, but only sparingly. I learned the 8-step for the Bronze MIF event at NYI in February, so I had a little background in that, and I could sort of do cross strokes - not well, though. I've done several comps this summer and am looking to test Bronze FS soon, so I've been focusing more on FS elements. I try to run through the moves (such as they are :oops: ) once per practice day. I find the 3-turns are sort of OK when I do them on the blue line (smaller lobes) but then when I get on the real pattern, it's a mess.

I'm thinking at least another year on these moves. Since I'm moving up to Bronze, I really need to focus on getting harder jumps and spins more than moves, and I sort of neglected any FS stuff that wasn't on the Bronze FS test when I spent so much time trying to pass Bronze moves this year. And since I don't think I'm ever going to make it to Silver FS - I just don't have the jumping ability - I'm not in a rush to take the moves. Actually, I think that will probably make me less nervous when I actually do test them.

[jazzpants]

Heh. I just learned how to do eight step mohawk. In one direction. And I have to repeat this pattern? Right away? And then do the same thing in the opposite direction?Some of us (pointing to self) don't even HAVE FO mohawks to do the 8 step right... :roll: 8O :evil: :frus:

[Hannahclear]

Some of us (pointing to self) don't even HAVE FO mohawks to do the 8 step right... :roll: 8O :evil: :frus:

I don't think I have them either. It's more of a flat. :lol:

[sk8pics]

Heh. I just learned how to do eight step mohawk. In one direction. And I have to repeat this pattern? Right away? And then do the same thing in the opposite direction?

LOL, yes, and go FASTER! Seems like this move really has to go at a quick pace. A friend of mine recently tested and passed silver moves, and I thought he really flew into them, like a bat out of hell, and he didn't actually pass that move. I think they marked him down a tenth for being too steppy or something. And don't forget, don't stick your butt out! That is apparently a common error! :lol:

[doubletoe]

But the most important thing to remember to survive this move is to POINT the TOES of the foot you're bringing down onto the ice for the 2nd half of each mohawk. I was dumb enough to forget this TWICE in two weeks and both times planted the back of my blade in the ice while the rest of me kept going. The first thing to hit the ice was my hip, and I'd have to say it was the worst bruise I've ever gotten on the ice (especially when it was the second bruise on top of the first bruise!)

[cecealias]

Some adults are really scared of spirals and 3 turns and are unwilling to take the risk that the standard track demands even on the pre-pre through juv tests. Spirals, yes i do think they involve risk taking. Of course you can disagree with me, but in my opinion the pre-pre through juv tests expect more than the adult tests, even if scored at the same point value on the tests. This is based on what I've seen and may not correspond to what you have seen. For example, I know that on the preliminary test skaters must step down on the back inside edge and push from that after the 3 turn on the power 3s but i know and have heard coaches tell their adults that on the bronze moves test, it's ok to let that slide and rock over to the inside edge from the outside.

And also I do know adults who don't have the patience or don't want to change their ways or work refine their moves - they just want to do the minimum to pass their tests so that they can compete. They don't want to spend any extra time more than the minimum required to get past their adult tests, forget about standard tests that demand even more perserverance and repeition to pass than the adult track which has provisions written into the test standard.

Adult track introduces skills more quickly so that you can do programs and compete without having to go through the entire grind of the standard track. But does it get you a better foundation at the lower levels? That's where I disagree.

I was trying to say the difference is that the standard track expects MORE than the adult track. So if you are willing to do the same but are willing to put with MORE perserverence patience and repetition, do the standard track.

I think also it's not fair to say both tracks are the same unless you have actually judged or taken tests on both tracks, and really know that one is different from the other. And there appears to be varying differences from region to region.

Btw, i did not learn moves as a kid. I learned them only as an adult and starting from pre-preliminary, fyi.


Um, how is this different from the adult track? Remember, we're really talking about the differences between Pre-Bronze through Gold and Pre-Prelim through Juv - then adults can move to the Intermediate test and go up from there if they want, which is where I think your observations come into play.

As for the temperament issue, I think you need plenty of patience, perseverance, and repetition to pass the adult moves tests - I know I did with Bronze, and I'm sure Silver will be even worse - lol.

[Ellyn]

True, the Prelim spirals are not on the adult track (is that what you were referring to about spirals?), but the Pre-Prelim spirals are,

Yes, but they're on the Silver test, the third test in the sequence, not the first. So if you're a brand-new skater starting out with little flexibility, you get a few years to build it up along with skating skills before being expected to test spirals, rather than a few months before taking the pre-prelim moves.

and since most of the moves in the first 4 standard track tests are on the adult tests, I'm not sure there is any more core and upper body twisting, knee and ankle bending, risk-taking, and repetition in practice in the standard track than there is in the adult track.

You want the preliminary alternating threes back on the adult tests, at 2.5 standard with no forgiveness for putting the free foot down at the change of lobe? I'm still struggling with those for the preliminary test.

[Debbie S]

For example, I know that on the preliminary test skaters must step down on the back inside edge and push from that after the 3 turn on the power 3s but i know and have heard coaches tell their adults that on the bronze moves test, it's ok to let that slide and rock over to the inside edge from the outside..Uh, my coach sure never said that, nor did any of the judges that judged my Bronze MIF test (or other Bronze MIF tests that I heard about).

And also I do know adults who don't have the patience or don't want to change their ways or work refine their moves - they just want to do the minimum to pass their tests so that they can compete. They don't want to spend any extra time more than the minimum required to get past their adult tests, forget about standard tests that demand even more perserverance and repeition to pass than the adult track which has provisions written into the test standard.Funny, because from what I've seen, I'd say adults are more patient and willing to refine their moves than most kids (notice I said most, not all). I think it's because we as adults understand the connection between working on moves and developing skills that will help us in our freestyle skating (or dance) whereas most kids, particularly young ones and particularly at the lower levels, just want to get through their tests as fast as possible and often don't have a sense of a move's focus or pattern - they just do what their coach tells them. When a kid gets up to Juv or Intermediate, I think at that point, they start to understand the process and technique more.

And usually, adults need to "change their ways" in order to get their moves to passing standard - I know I did.

As far as "provisions" go, my understanding is that the so-called adult expectations were developed by the Adult Committee but were never actually given to the judges or written into the rulebook. I went to a moves critique when I was working on Pre-Bronze MIF and asked about the allowance for putting your foot down at the line in the alt 3's - the judge looked at me like I had 3 heads, looked at the rulebook, told me there was nothing in there about feet down at the line, and that I should "get a rulebook, everything you need to know is there." Suffices to say that any adult following that alt 3 "provision" in my area would be failed automatically.

I was trying to say the difference is that the standard track expects MORE than the adult track. So if you are willing to do the same but are willing to put with MORE perserverence patience and repetition, do the standard track.Thanks for clarifying. What I thought you were saying is that the adult moves tests don't require patience, perseverance, and repetition, which I would find a bit offensive given the number of hours I and other adult skaters put in trying to get our moves to passing standard on the adult track.

[sk8er1964]

Well, if it's any consolation, it's taking me months and months (okay, months of not-very-concentrated effort, but still. . .) to conquer the perimeter power 3's move for the Intermediate test. And that's just one move! :frus:

I had the worst time with those. Did you take the lower MIF tests? I didn't, so I had never really seen the power-3is before. I had a similar problem on the Adult Gold for the inside forward/back threes, because I didn't know how to do the side pattern!

(I grandfathered into AGM, so never took anything lower except for figures thru the 2nd test)

[Debbie S]

You want the preliminary alternating threes back on the adult tests, at 2.5 standard with no forgiveness for putting the free foot down at the change of lobe? I'm still struggling with those for the preliminary test.Well, I did have to take those on the Pre-Bronze MIF test, so I'm probably an "outlier" as far as the average adult skater moving through the adult track goes - lol. I remember there were sessions where I spent about 40 minutes (of a 50-minute session) practicing the alt 3's (there's some serious repetition) and trying not to put my free foot down at the line, while watching kids learn that in about 10 minutes. I had to do plenty of core and upper body twisting and needed plenty of patience - so did my coaches - lol.

I'm glad they took that out of the Pre-Bronze test, and I agree that the Pre-Bronze test has gotten easier, although I don't think it's easier than the Pre-Prelim test b/c of the other 3-turns and the crossover figure 8's - I'm talking about the actual moves, not the judging standard.

As for Prelim spirals, I guess I'm one of those weird people who would much rather have done the spirals than the alt 3's on Pre-Bronze. But I think having neither of those moves on the introductory-level adult test is a good idea.

I have thought about testing standard track moves, but I decided that given my limited time and money, I would benefit more from concentrating on Silver MIF now and acquiring new skills (and changing my ways, or at least my bad habits) rather than going back to the moves on Pre-Prelim and Prelim MIF. But maybe someday......:)

[skaternum]

And also I do know adults who don't have the patience or don't want to change their ways or work refine their moves - they just want to do the minimum to pass their tests so that they can compete. I have to say that I've seen this as well. Probably more so in the past than presently, but I still see it. Luckily most of these types fall out of the sport after a while.

I was trying to say the difference is that the standard track expects MORE than the adult track.I agree with this too. Most people I know spend a lot more time working on their standard track tests than on their adult tests.

And there appears to be varying differences from region to region.Ah, the eternal constant. :lol:

[doubletoe]

I have to say that I've seen this as well. Probably more so in the past than presently, but I still see it. Luckily most of these types fall out of the sport after a while.

Hey, that describes me perfectly, but I'm not falling out of the sport, LOL! I think it's just that we adults usually only have a few hours of practice time each week and need to spend as much of it as possible on freestyle if we are competing. Having said that, I am now working on my Intermediate MIF and my coach is telling me they need to be more perfect than when I did the same moves for Gold, since the passing standard is higher. She watches every MIF test session at our rink so I believe her. BTW, this is the first MIF test I'm taking voluntarily, not just to be eligible for a freestyle test. It seemed like the thing to do, since there was only one new move to learn. . .

[sk8pics]

I wonder if standards are changing continuously anyway, so one person's experience at intermediate, say, a few years ago, would be different compared to someone's experience now. I know someone who just passed gold moves and she passed intermediate a couple of years ago, and said she got lower scores now than she did when she took the intermediate test, even though she is a much better skater now. She passed each test, but was just surprised at the scores.