Scribes -- How much ??

[mdvask8r]

Does anyone know about how much a scribe costs new? I have found a slightly used scribe and am trying to figure out how much to offer the guy for it.

[VegasGirl]

What's a scribe?

[NickiT]

What's a scribe?

It's like a giant compass that marks circles on the ice for figures.

Nicki

[VegasGirl]

Oh, I see... thanks for the info!
But why not just use the hockey circles?

[NickiT]

Oh, I see... thanks for the info!
But why not just use the hockey circles?

Because for school figures (I think that's what they were called) you have to have a set circle size according to the size of your skate. Used to do a weekly figures class but our coach used to trace the circles without a scribe and sometimes we were set the task of tracing our own. Invariably my figure of eight resembled a snowman with one circle being bigger than the other.

Nicki

[jenlyon60]

I paid $25 for a used scribe with storage case.

[samba]

I havent seen one used in years.8O

[dbny]

They occasionally show up on ebay. Why not ask how much the seller wants for it first?

[lovepairs]

I have one--brand new and never used. You can come get it, but it would have to be over my dead body--I will never never never part with my beloved scribe :cry: :cry: :cry: I miss figures...:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Isk8NYC]

I have one--brand new and never used. You can come get it, but it would have to be over my dead body--I will never never never part with my beloved scribe :cry: :cry: :cry: I miss figures...:cry: :cry: :cry:You're funny: brand new, never used, but you won't part with the scribe! :lol: At least hang it on the wall in a place of honor: over the fireplace mantle, or the toilet. I sympathize - I also liked doing "patch."

[dbny]

Because for school figures (I think that's what they were called) you have to have a set circle size according to the size of your skate.

Isn't the size of the circle based on your height?

[Mrs Redboots]

I havent seen one used in years.8OMy coach got his out one day and was playing with it, but our ice can be very hard (and well-used, by the end of the morning), and one of his skaters was watching him, and she goes, "yes, but what it it supposed to do?" at which point he realised that he wasn't actually making any marks at all with it!

Most of the coaches I know who make marks on the ice for you to follow do so with their own skate.... one did the most beautiful circle the other day, I was rather impressed!

[manleywoman]

Rainbo has a few I think, as does Cyclone Taylor. They even have figure blades.

[NickiT]

Isn't the size of the circle based on your height?

It may well be. I really can't remember!

Nicki

[lovepairs]

You're funny: brand new, never used, but you won't part with the scribe! At least hang it on the wall in a place of honor: over the fireplace mantle, or the toilet. I sympathize - I also liked doing "patch."

I sleep with it at night!

Mine was one of the last 4 left, discovered way back in the Rainbo warehouse covered with cob webs!

[flying~camel]

I still have my scribe from back when I did patch as a teenager, but, sorry, I won't sell it.

The size of the circle is usually 2-3 times (I don't remember which) your height and the scribe cannot be used when testing/competing.

[lovepairs]

Yea, putting your scribe away when testing is way scarier than any Moves in the Field! Moves people don't know what it is really like to go under the scrutiny of a test until you've been tested on figures.

I mean, I've always wondered why the 3 turns in moves have to be in the right place, because the judges can't see them anyway, since there way on the otherside of the rink--so, what's up with that???!!!)(*&*^^$%^&*

Remember when judges would get down on their hands and knees to inspect that your 3 turns--NOW THAT WAS TESTING!

[mdvask8r]

I found it on Craigslist.com. The guy selling it is clueless -- all he'll say is that his daughter used it only about 4 times and that she was a "real purty skater". He did finally say that he thought about 40% of the original price would be fair, but he has no idea what the price was. What an experience talking ot him . . .
maybe I'll just check w/Rainbo to see if they have any more.

[lovepairs]

Md,

I paid a little over $100 for mine from Rainbo, which was a bargin. They were so surprised that someone even wanted a scribe that they were almost willing to give it away! Like I said, my poor wonderful scribe was just sitting in some old warehouse in a corner collecting dust :cry: Poor little scribe all by itself...

[Skate@Delaware]

I bought one with a case off Ebay for $25 also. I haven't used it yet...we are supposed to be having a figures class starting in the fall.

[HelenC]

I bought a scribe from Jerry's about 10 years ago. They were trying to get rid of them for $25.
The circles should be 3x your height. Although when I was at the Mountain Cup (last time was '04) the Europeans seemed to make them smaller.
I try to patch whenever possible. It helps so much. I hope you'll be able to get the scribe!

[Isk8NYC]

I bought a scribe from Jerry's about 10 years ago. They were trying to get rid of them for $25.
The circles should be 3x your height. Although when I was at the Mountain Cup (last time was '04) the Europeans seemed to make them smaller.
I try to patch whenever possible. It helps so much. I hope you'll be able to get the scribe!Three times your height for two-lobe figures, sounds right to me. I remember the Serpentine figure having smaller lobes, probably 2x your height.

We rarely used scribes until we were working on advanced figures. Instead, you "paced out" your pattern during practice by marking the starting point with your heel, then side-stepping to each side to mark the outside of each lobe (again, scratching with your heel.) Before you tested, you stopped using a scribe for at least two weeks, so you could get in the habit of estimating without aids.

[icedancer2]

I have had two scribes given to me by skaters who used to do patch. I suspect they are not worth much $$$ to anyone, so I would try to get it for as low as possible.

I LOVE doing figures, but I don't actually use the scribe.

Makes it too easy.8-)

[Chico]

I would love to learn figures. I think this would be a great skill to work on and would help me as a skater.

Chico

[NickiT]

I used to love doing figures. My coach ran this class once a week and I found figures very relaxing. My coach always said I was good at them and that it's a shame they don't test them anymore. Mind you I doubt I'd have been very good when the old jelly legs kicked in!

Nicki

[skatingpanda]

The circles should be 3x your height. Although when I was at the Mountain Cup (last time was '04) the Europeans seemed to make them smaller.


Hmm... looks like that there was indeed a different "patch culture" on the two sides of the pond. When I was doing figures as a teenager in Europe, the size (diameter) of 1 circle was 1.5x the height. I remember that we had to lye down on the ice 3 times with the coach marking beginning and end of the body. Then we would count the number of blades corresponding to the 3 body lenghts and divide it by two to know how many "blades" a circle would be. Since the coach was the only one having a scribe, it was only used for those in lesson, the rest of the time we would count out our steps and mark the ice at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock and follow these markings to trace the first circle.

[Mrs Redboots]

The circles should be 3x your height. Although when I was at the Mountain Cup (last time was '04) the Europeans seemed to make them smaller.
I try to patch whenever possible. It helps so much. I hope you'll be able to get the scribe!I'd always heard it was 1.5 times your height.

When are you coming to the Mountain Cup again????

[mdvask8r]

The radius is 1.5 X your height, the diameter is 3x your height. Therefore you want to set the scribe at 1.5 X your height (the length of the radius) to draw a circle 3X your height. If you lie down on the ice 3X that is 3X your height, no? Geometry review for the day ;) .

[skatingpanda]

The radius is 1.5 X your height, the diameter is 3x your height. Therefore you want to set the scribe at 1.5 X your height (the length of the radius) to draw a circle 3X your height. If you lie down on the ice 3X that is 3X your height, no? Geometry review for the day ;) .

I meant that lying down on the ice 3x gave the size of *two* circles (basically the length of a figure 8 along the long axis). Therefore the circles we were doing had a diameter of 1.5x the height, and a radius of 0.75x the height.
And I know for sure that I would have never made it around a circle 3x times my height... I am known for having had to make a hop from standstill at 5/6 around a circle 1.5x my height during a test, in order to finish the circle, LOL. Is it necessary to specify that I didn't pass?... ;-)

[Figureskates]

I just came back from adult week at Lake Placid and there were about 5 adults patching in the Lussi Rink in a lot of sessions. There were also giving group lessons in patch as well and many of us were taking private lessons.

One rare sight was to see 5 adults patching and three to fours scribes lying around the edge of the ice. You don't see that much anymore.

In the August adult week there are usually 7 or 8 of us who patch most of the week.

I have two scribes. One has the normal etching point for the dark ice on the Lussi Rink. The other scribe I have a magic marker as a point to use on the pure white ice of my rink. I am the only person at my rink who does figures....you should see the looks on the kids faces when I drag out the scribe. Many of them have to clue as to what it is....I am getting old!

[HelenC]

I'll try to go to either the Mountain Cup or Obersdorf next year. I've never been to Obersdorf and would like to try that, but the Mountain Cup has figures and interp besides freestyle, and lots of skating friends. It'll be hard to decide. Which will you do?

[Mrs Redboots]

I'll try to go to either the Mountain Cup or Obersdorf next year. I've never been to Obersdorf and would like to try that, but the Mountain Cup has figures and interp besides freestyle, and lots of skating friends. It'll be hard to decide. Which will you do?The Mountain Cup - it's special! I think the Husband wants to go to Oberstdorf again next year, and will presumably do his free skating, but there's nothing for me there as I'm not good enough to do even the lowest level of ISU dances, and I don't do free skating.

But the Mountain Cup is very special to us, and we enjoy the camp, too.

[Moto Guzzi]

Three times your height for two-lobe figures, sounds right to me. I remember the Serpentine figure having smaller lobes, probably 2x your height.No, the serpentine lobes were the same size as the lobes in the other figures. You might be thinking of loops which did have smaller lobes. I stopped figures while working on my 2nd test so I never learned loops and don't remember their actual size but do know they were smaller.

At my rink most skaters would wait five or ten minutes before starting serpentines and then ask permission from the skater on the opposite patch because the third lobe would overlap the other skater's patch. You were also expected to yield to the other skater when coming onto their patch if you were about to collide. I loved doing the front and back serpentines from the 1st and 2nd tests because they didn't have any turns (I suck at turns) and would sometimes work on paragraph 8s (a figure 8 done on one foot) just for fun. I bought my scribe from another skater who was giving up the sport and paid maybe $10 for it. I still have it but won't sell it, either.

[HelenC]

Moto Guzzi, your post reminds me of something. About 30 years ago at Sky Rink, I was on patch working on 1st test figures and doing them badly.

Linda Fratianne (who was the top US skater after Dorothy Hamill at the time) was in town with her coach Frank Carroll and skated on the other end of the patch I was on. After a while, her coach told to her ask me if she could do serpentines (it may have been the rockers from the 7th test) into my side of the patch. Then he told her that she must give way to me whenever she crossed over.

I was blown away by how courteous they were, and totally embarrassed that they could see what a mess my patch was. Her tracings were unbelievably perfect.

[icedancer2]

I was blown away by how courteous they were, and totally embarrassed that they could see what a mess my patch was. Her tracings were unbelievably perfect.

Helen -- Your post reminds me of almost 40 years ago when I used to have to occassionally patch across from Tim Wood, who was National Champion, Olympic Silver medalist and World Champion (at least twice!) -- my figures (2nd test) were a complete mess, and his were always so beautiful.

I was always so embarassed, but he was so nice about it...:)

[Ellyn]

I mean, I've always wondered why the 3 turns in moves have to be in the right place, because the judges can't see them anyway, since there way on the otherside of the rink--so, what's up with that???!!!)(*&*^^$%^&*

Remember when judges would get down on their hands and knees to inspect that your 3 turns--NOW THAT WAS TESTING!

Well, on the moves with turns "in the field" at least *one* of the turns will fall right in front of the judges so they can get a good look look at it. And even from across the rink they can see if it's way off, although you do get maybe a couple inches leeway that you wouldn't have with the judges on the ice looking at figures circles.

[saras]

I'm *fascinated* by the possibility of Euro/US difference in size of circles! And that may explain the few times I've gotten a reaction from folks that my patch circles are WAY too large. In the US (USFSA rulebook - you can still get the USFSA rules for patch tests - you can still test 'em even though Mountain Cup is the only place I know of where they are competed, except some ISI competitions I think) - regular (non-loop) figures - 2 circle and serpentine - are supposed to be three times your height. So the scribe is 1.5 of that. (Loop figures have a diameter of your height).

Twice now I have encountered folks who SWEAR that the scribe should be about as long as from the ground to your fingertips if you hold your arm straight up over your head. Which gives your height plus about the distance of your elbow to your fingertips. My elbow to my fingertips is way less than half of my height...so that never made sense to me.

If European training has a smaller circle size of about half of the US standard, that would, that would totally make sense...

--Sara, still patching...

[flying~camel]

Twice now I have encountered folks who SWEAR that the scribe should be about as long as from the ground to your fingertips if you hold your arm straight up over your head.
When I patched as a kid, that was how we determined the height of the scribe... I wonder which way is really the correct way :)

Even though I don't patch now, my scribe is in my car just in case my coach wants to use it to work on my 3-turns for the Silver test ;)

[Rob Dean]

OK, I've got to try this. :) When we were working on Waltz 8s the other week, my coach, as she was scraping out a pattern on the ice to show me where she wanted the elements to be, said that she knew exactly where her scribe was. I have read enough about this (i.e. patch) that I want to see how it works...

Rob

[skateflo]

In Lussi's old book "Championship Figure Skating" he states there is no rigid fule covering diameter but the average skater will execute the truest and cleanest circles when the diameter is controlled to approximately 3X the height of the body...... For the loop, is acutally elliptical or oval in shape in a 3:2 proportion, length to width, and is approx 1-1/2X the length of the foot in length. His diagram shows the length of the loop ending at 1/3 the distance across the whole circle and is longer than the width of the loop, hence the 3:2 ratio.

Obviously the 5 ft. skater circle is smaller than someone 6 ft. tall.

[saras]

In Lussi's old book "Championship Figure Skating" he states there is no rigid fule covering diameter but the average skater will execute the truest and cleanest circles when the diameter is controlled to approximately 3X the height of the body...... For the loop, is acutally elliptical or oval in shape in a 3:2 proportion, length to width, and is approx 1-1/2X the length of the foot in length. His diagram shows the length of the loop ending at 1/3 the distance across the whole circle and is longer than the width of the loop, hence the 3:2 ratio.

Obviously the 5 ft. skater circle is smaller than someone 6 ft. tall.

for the loop part - what you're saying applies to the inner loop. The outer circle should still be about 1X the person's height

I'll have to go dig out Lussi's book now - I haven't looked at it in a while!

[blue111moon]

My 25-year-old scribe rides in the trunk of my car even now, although I don't use it much, unless I'm learning a new figure and need it to train my body to the correct size.

40% of the original price is too high, IMO. $25 is the max I would offer, less if you have to pay for shipping.

[kateskate]

Because for school figures (I think that's what they were called) you have to have a set circle size according to the size of your skate. Used to do a weekly figures class but our coach used to trace the circles without a scribe and sometimes we were set the task of tracing our own. Invariably my figure of eight resembled a snowman with one circle being bigger than the other.

Nicki

Lol - once my free skating coach asked me to trace a circle to do back inside loops on - I was totally incapable of tracing anything circle like!

[Ellyn]

I've been told circles should be three times the skater's height, including by my current, originally European, coach.

That's fine if I'm just doing circles with no turns. But if I want to practice three turns or double threes on circles, just for extra three turn practice, I make them much smaller. Otherwise I'd never get back to the centers.

Oh, and back inside circles I can only do smaller as well.

Basically, I spent a year on first-test figures in my youth, and I can do them up to size, if not up to test standard. On those second- and third-test figures that I can attempt, I do them smaller.

[Team Arthritis]

OK you figurative experts - how do you keep the exit edge from FI3's to center from being too tight? I don't do 8's I do YinYang instead :P
Lyle

[vesperholly]

OK you figurative experts - how do you keep the exit edge from FI3's to center from being too tight? I don't do 8's I do YinYang instead :P
Lyle
It basically requires a lot of check immediately following the FI turn. On RFI, your left shoulder should be strongly held in front and your right shoulder back. Your hands should be generally over the tracing. If you open your left side, you are toast. Keep your left knee in tight and pointed forward.

[saras]

OK you figurative experts - how do you keep the exit edge from FI3's to center from being too tight? I don't do 8's I do YinYang instead :P
Lyle

Jocelyn's right - it's all in the check. For me, it helps to start initiating (slightly) the check right before the turn - if I wait to start the check until after the turn, it's too late. Think of pressing your leading (after the turn) shoulder back - don't let it curl around into the turn. For FO turns, I press leading shoulder (the free leg side one) *and hip* back. For the FI, the arms/shoulders need to be hovering right over the circle - almost stretching around it - not careening around the rotation of the turn so that the skating side arm ends up inside the circle, and the free leg side arm ends up out of it.

==Sara