knee pain - advice/ anyone ever have this?

[newskaker5]

Ok - I figured Id ask here 1st since Im not really sure whats wrong w/ my knee. I went skating today for practice and was working on my waltz jumps and landed my toe loops on my own for the 1st time. I didnt fall much and at no time did my knee hurt while I was at the rink.

On the way home while driving my knee started to hurt and ever since then it has been painful to bend it. It isnt swollen, I iced it but it didnt seem to help. I tried wrapping it and that didnt do much either.

The pain seems to be towards the inside of the knee (near the MCL area). Definatley not a MCL tear as the knee is totally stable. It seems to hurt the most when being bent and picked up (like when lift a leg to stand- where the weight of the lower leg pulls on it). Bending while standing seems to be most painful if my knee is behind my toe line (like when you do a squat type position).

Has this ever happened to anyone elsE? Im thinking maybe I was landing wrong (its the knee I land on that hurts). I doubt its serious, but I dont want to injure it further. Any advice on how to treat this and how to prevent it from happening for next time? I usually have a very high pain tolerance and thats why I am concerned over this pain - especially since I didnt think I did anything to twist it while skating :(

Thanks so much!

[jenlyon60]

I would suggest going to the doc and getting a referral for an MRI and possibly ortho.

It is possible that you have a tear in the medial meniscus (which is located in that general area).

It's also possible that you have a partial tear of the MCL. Not enough to destabilize the knee joint significantly.

In either case, do the good old RICE treatment (Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation) with the ice pack on for 15 minutes then off.

In general, the physiology of the average female hip structure tends to increase the potential for knee injuries such as ACL/MCL/meniscus. This is becase our hip to knee ratio (Q ratio) tends to be larger than in men. As a result, the larger Q ratio puts a greater strain on the knee joint, raising the risk of injury.

[doubletoe]

I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but here are some thoughts:

How many waltz jumps and toeloops did you do? A lot more than usual? If so, all those landings are probably the reason. If not, then the toeloop (which is the only new thing you were doing) might be the reason.

If it's the toeloop, it could be one of two things:
1. The position of your landing knee when you pick: deeply bent and in the position you described in relation to the toes. You are also on a deeply bent knee going into the 3-turn just before the takeoff edge (assuming you do your toeloop from an inside 3-turn) and that could be part of the knee strain as well.
2. Your toeloop landing might not be fully rotated, causing you to twist your knee as you land (probably less likely than reason #1)

Rest the knee for a few days, take ibuprofen or whatever it is you like to take, and see if it gets better. If it does, try only waltz jumps (no toeloops) next time you skate and see if it hurts again. If not, try only toeloops the next time you skate and see if that hurts. If it does, then it's probably your toeloop takeoff position or landing that's the culprit. Regardless, if it continues to hurt, you should see a sports medicine doctor.

[newskaker5]

Thanks so much! i will definatley get an MRI if it continues to hurt. Im thinking by tomorrow it will most likely feel improved since its not even swollen and the pain is definately tolerable, just something I dont want to con't to worsen or cause again.

I was doing more toe loops than normal since I just learned them. But I think I did less or the same amount of waltz jumps. I did do an excessive number of 3-turns and mohawks, so maybe thats the cause too. I will pay attention to the postion on take off and landing. Maybe I will try and video too. I didnt have a lesson today so I could have been messing up w/o realizing it.

Thanks so much for the advice. I love this place- u guys help so much!

[Skate@Delaware]

Just my two cents worth, but when I do an abnormally large number of jumps on one session, my knees ache....

[AmandaS88]

Kinda reminds me a bit of my bursitis..

[Mrs Redboots]

I find my knees "go" from time to time, then usually are all right again after resting. There's a well-known syndrome whose name escapes me right now where if your knee hurts going down stairs, but not up, it's some particular inflammation that isn't serious, which is what I have. It flares up when I overdo it on the ice, and then dies down again.

[newskaker5]

Well im bummed because I had to cancel my lesson for today. Knee still hurts - especially with bending and sideways movement. It seems to be some kind of MCL injury since I can pinpoint the exact pain spot and that seems to be the only liagment in the area. Its still not swollen and the pain isnt severe so Im assuming its minor sprain or something. I will get it looked at and rest it, but I really wanted to go to my lesson today :( Oh well - thats what I get for practicing haha

[dooobedooo]

Hope your knee is better soon.

You can strengthen your knees by doing a lot of walking or running uphill (eg. on a treadmill with the gradient set to whatever is comfortable). Gentle rhythmic cycling is good, too.

[newskaker5]

Thanks! I do run almost daily - about 5 miles and I lift weights 3x per week so I think the knees should be pretty strong. My main concern is the specific location of pain - its not like a general soreness, its more like a stabbing pain on the side. Im thinking I probably shouldnt jog/ walk on the treadmill till the stabbing pain resolves, what do you all think? Then I figure I will start back slowly with the bike/ elliptical since my knee has less ability to twist on those 1st and then move onto running

[fmh]

have you ever injured your knee before?? because some injuries come back once in a while if you've been doing something even like landing jumps or walking up stairs, they usually go away quicker. also you said you wrapped it, you can wrap your knee different ways: sometimes you have to wrap the kneecap, and other times you have to leave that part open.

[iskatealot]

Hi
From what you say it sounds like something I get sometimes. If I practice too hard, doing lots of jumps, especially new ones then I find that my knee gets very sore at the back. I usually find that while it isnt sore until after I get off the ice it will get worse if I keep skating a lot and then I start feeling it even when I am on the ice. My suggestion is just taking a couple days off and seeing how it goes. I would also suggest working on your new jumps a bit less.

[doubletoe]

Yeah, if it's a sharp pain in a specific place rather than a general ache, it's probably more than just overuse. You should get it checked out.

[newskaker5]

**knock on wood** my knees have never been injuried before in past sports - probably ever other body part except them though haha. I tried wrapping it only for maybe 30 minutes, but it didnt make any difference so im leaving it unwrapped and just going easy on it. It seems to be feeling better but the side pain is still constant so I will see how it is by tomorrow and if the same spot still hurts I will get it checked. Thanks again for everyone's advice! It really helps!

[slusher]

I would suggest going to the doc and getting a referral for an MRI and possibly ortho.

It is possible that you have a tear in the medial meniscus (which is located in that general area).

It's also possible that you have a partial tear of the MCL. Not enough to destabilize the knee joint significantly.


I'm thinking the same thing, that the slight tear, loosening of the MCL (or even ACL) is causing misalignment, putting pressure on the meniscus either tearing it or having your bones line up in a place where there is no cushioning. I have had this. It can cause further damage if not diagnosed and treated. I could do every jump except the loop which was agony.

The other thing is that you might have lots of leg muscle, but it could be unbalanced and pulling leg/knee out of alignment. I have had this too. This caused pain with everything.

I have had lots of knee things. I also have a very good sports physio. I think that you need to go see someone.

[Casey]

I have knee pain pretty often after I skate...it never hurts on the ice, only when I get off, and then it goes away after 10 minutes or so...no idea why...but as long as it doesn't linger I can live with it... ;)

[peshu]

I had an injury at one point that I was convinced was a torn meniscus, and the sports medicine/orthopedist I consulted agreed, so he ordered an MRI. It wasn't the result of a specific incident; I first had symptoms such as you describe but I had increased instablity and pain in the joint over time. The MRI revealed a completely normal knee, at which point he said he couldn't do anything for me and said maybe a physical therapist would be able to help. The PT watched me walk (or try to, my knee kept buckling at that point) and did an examination, then said there were two things going on: my patella was hyperextending over the tib/fib, and it was also moving to the outside (i.e., the left side of my left leg) when I bent it. The solution was a combination of simple taping and exercises designed to strengthen what I will call the inside baby quad because I can't remember the real term. This muscle in on the inside of the leg and helps hold the knee cap in place. A few weeks of exercises solved my problem. In my case I had apparently overdeveloped the quadricep on that leg in comparison to the small muscle, and the latter couldn't handle the forces the quad was exerting.

Maybe you could see a PT first? They look at the kinetic/mechanical situation whereas doctors look at you statically (the sports med guy just examined me on the table, he never looked at how I was walking). I'm not a doctor but I think a torn meniscus would be causing more instability than you are reporting.

Hope this helps.

[doubletoe]

I had an injury at one point that I was convinced was a torn meniscus, and the sports medicine/orthopedist I consulted agreed, so he ordered an MRI. It wasn't the result of a specific incident; I first had symptoms such as you describe but I had increased instablity and pain in the joint over time. The MRI revealed a completely normal knee, at which point he said he couldn't do anything for me and said maybe a physical therapist would be able to help. The PT watched me walk (or try to, my knee kept buckling at that point) and did an examination, then said there were two things going on: my patella was hyperextending over the tib/fib, and it was also moving to the outside (i.e., the left side of my left leg) when I bent it. The solution was a combination of simple taping and exercises designed to strengthen what I will call the inside baby quad because I can't remember the real term. This muscle in on the inside of the leg and helps hold the knee cap in place. A few weeks of exercises solved my problem. In my case I had apparently overdeveloped the quadricep on that leg in comparison to the small muscle, and the latter couldn't handle the forces the quad was exerting.

Actually, my PT (who is also a skater, thank God!) says that is a very common problem with skaters. We use our outer quad muscle more than the inner one, creating an unequal pull on the knee. Doing leg extensions and leg raises with the foot/leg turned out a little should help strengthen that muscle, but again, you should double check with a PT and/or doctor.

[crayonskater]

When I was in college, I hyperextended my leg on a (fencing) flying lunge and injured the medial meniscus in my right knee. I noticed no instability problems at first, nor did it swell, but it would exhibit a sharp, severe stabbing pain upon bending my knee. This sounds similar to what you're describing.

I'd see a doctor or trainer. Mine wasn't torn, or at least, we didn't have strong reason to think so, but I had therapy for a while on it. My trainer didn't wrap it, because she felt that babying it would make the problem worse, Lots of bike-riding and balancing exercises. The good news is, while I still have problems with it now and then (five years later) with skating, but it wasn't an injury that kept me off the ice.