Bronze Test Prep

[Hannahclear]

As some of you may remember, I am testing my Bronze moves soon. I'm about three weeks from the big day and I want to start running through the test on a regular basis. What order do the elements go in? I *think* it's this:

1) Forward perimeter power stroking
2) Backward perimeter power stroking
3) Backward crossovers to backward outside edges
4) Power 3s
5) 5 step mohawk

Is this right? I'm just not sure about #3 and #4. Are they reversed?

Any other tips or notes from experience? I'd really love to pass this one and I think I'm ready. I know alot of people here are above bronze level or have tested it before. All suggestions are welcome.

Thanks. :)

[jenlyon60]

1. Forward Perimeter Power Crossover Stroking

2. Backward Perimeter Power Crossover Stroking

3. Forward Power 3's

4. Alternating Back Crossovers to back Outside edges

5. 5-step mohawk

So from your original list, 4 before 3

[Clarice]

Yes, you've reversed #3 and #4. It goes 1) forward perimeter crossover stroking, 2) backward perimeter crossover stroking, 3) forward power 3-turns, 4) alternating back crossovers to back outside edges, 5) 5-step mohawk sequence. The primary focus for the first 4 is continuous flow and strength, while the primary focus for #5 is edge quality. The secondary focus for #1 is extension, for #2 it's edge quality, they don't list a secondary focus for #3, and for #4 and #5 it's extension again. Good luck!

[Terri C]

If you can do anything, remember that the forward power perimeter stroking is the first pattern and YOU MUST STEP ONTO A FORWARD INSIDE EDGE FOLLOWING EACH CROSSOVER
I got reamed on this on my first try back in March and my coach has said that until I get this cleaned up ( I have a hard time getting on a LFI after the right over left forward crossover) I will not be retaking the test.

[flying~camel]

And remember, if you make a mistake in a pattern, don't get too upset over it - you have an entire set to make up for it! ;)

I had a slight bobble on the 1st 3-turn on my power 3s and had to tell myself to not get too worked up over it since I had the whole length of the ice to make up for it (it must've worked, too, because I didn't get asked to reskate them!).

[MusicSkateFan]

Keep deep in the knee and get some speed. Have fun...g luck!

[jazzpants]

Hi, Hannahclear!

Just want wish you good luck on those Bronze Moves.

As for your original post...yes, your #3 and #4 on your list is reversed.

I'm probably the WRONG person to give you advice, since I have taken this particular test twice (retried BOTH times) and God knows if I'll pass it this time :roll:. (To my defense, it has consistently gotten better and I did have a moves critique about 3 months ago and I think I've improved since and am ready to try this test again.) But anyway, FWIW...

If you can, try to get a good 20-30 minute warm up just so you won't go into the test stiff.
As MSF says, BEND YOUR KNEES and have LOTS of speed -- it will help with getting you to skate on an edge instead of a flat. And I will add to it to STRETCH and EXTEND on areas where appropriate.
Don't look at the judges...EXCEPT between elements so they can write their notes on your previous move before you proceed to the next move element. :P
Most important part... think of it as just another practice session where your concentration is on what you have to do to get thru those moves, one 3-turn or mohawk at a time! One mess up on a 3turn is not gonna kill the test. Just get back to where you have to be to get thru the rest of the pattern.
I recommend now is a good time to go thru runthrus with all the test elements IN ORDER!!! (I've been doing 2 runthrus per practice session now, just b/c I need to.)Keep in mind the focus for each of these moves:

1. Forward Perimeter Power Crossover Stroking - Primary focus: continuous flow and strength of edge; Secondary: extension

2. Backward Perimeter Power Crossover Stroking - Primary focus: continuous flow and strength of edge; Secondary focus: edge quality

3. Forward Power 3's - continuous flow and strength of edge

4. Alternating Back Crossovers to back Outside edges - Primary focus continuous flow and strength of edge; Secondary: Extension.

5. 5-step mohawk - Primary focus: Edge quality; Secondary focus: Extension

Hope this helps...

[Hannahclear]

Thanks for all the tips. Had my lesson this morning, after a two week hiatus due to Memorial Day.

My forward and backward perimeter stroking and backward crossovers to back outside edges are strong. Even after not doing them for a couple of weeks, they were up there in terms of quality.

However, I've got to put some more work into the Power 3s and the 5 Step Mohawks in the next few weeks. They are both a little weak.

Tips on these moves in particular? I guess I'm just going to do what I can and try and get higher scores than the passing average on the moves I do well with.

[NickB]

Crap! 8O You'd think as both a judge and a skater working on this test that I would've known that the alternating back crossovers to BO edges were on this test. :oops: I thought I had checked the moves, but I guess that was only for pre-bronze when I was working on that. I knew the alternating forward 3s used to be on pre-bronze so I just assumed they had moved to bronze and have been working on those instead. I guess I'll have to start working on those back crossovers to BO edges now and tell my coach we both managed to get the moves wrong. :lol:

[Debbie S]

You'd think as both a judge and a skater working on this test that I would've known that the alternating back crossovers to BO edges were on this test. :oops: And you would also think that your coach would know what moves are on which test. This stuff is in the rulebook (and Bronze is the only adult moves test that didn't have changes this year, so the moves have been the same for what, 4 years?).

And the fact that you're a judge and don't know what's on what test is kind of scary - I'm not trying to point fingers at you specifically, but it's frightening to think that judges aren't informed of the correct moves of a test that they could end up judging. :roll:

Good luck on your test, Hannahclear!

[jenlyon60]

THere is currently no requirement for prospective judges to trial Adult MIF/FS tests (or for judges seeking promotion, either).

When I was trialing for my Bronze, I chose to trial judge a couple Adult tests, so that I would gain exposure to them. I can't remember if they were submitted along with the rest of my trial judging results.

[NickB]

Well, I haven't seen any adult bronze tests since the rules were changed. I am very familiar with all the moves that are on all of the tests but get have only seen maybe 5-7 adult moves tests total, and all of them were before the most recent changes, so I don't always remember which moves are on each adult test. If I was scheduled to judge an adult test I would look at the sheet and review the test standards beforehand, since they are sometimes different for the adult tests. I don't blame my coach for the oversight either. I knew most of the moves that were on the test and knew that the alternating 3s had been removed from pre-bronze, so we both thought they had been moved to bronze, and I guess we trusted since we both thought that was the case, that it probably was. ;) In any case, they are on the preliminary test which is the next standard track test I would take, and so are the alternating back crossovers to BO edges, so I should be working on both anyway (and the alternating spirals 8O ).

Also, I have always been told in my training as a judge to judge each move independently, so theoretically a judge who is familiar with all of the patterns and the primary and secondary focus for each move, and the quality and standard expected at each level, could be a good judge of the test even if he/she didn't remember exactly which moves were on every test. We all see so many standard track tests that it's almost impossible to forget, but since most of us get such little experience seeing adult tests, and in the diagram section of the rulebook as well as all the judges' training manuals and the PSA moves book, the moves are in the order they are on the standard track test. There is usually a note of which adult test it is on, if any, but they are all scrambled throughout the section so we rarely see the list of moves spelled out unless we actually have an adult moves sheet or look in the test section of the rulebook to see the list (but we wouldn't normally do that for other tests since we're so used to seeing the judging sheets).

I'm looking at the different adult test sheets now and will try to remember which moves are on which. I also hear there's an all adult test session in my region over the summer so I'll have to find out if that's true and maybe go if even just to watch, because I do need to see more adult tests.

[Debbie S]

If I was scheduled to judge an adult test I would look at the sheet and review the test standards beforehand, since they are sometimes different for the adult tests. But how would you know ahead of time that you are judging an adult test? I guess if the club posts the schedule on its website, you could always check that, but I would think judges are just told what time to be at the test session and are not told who or what they are judging until they get the test sheets during warm-ups for each group, and it's kind of hard to do an extensive review of test standards in 6 minutes. Even if the schedule is posted in advance, there are always last-minute changes, plus if it's a large club, judging panels may rotate in and out, so there's no way of knowing who or what you will judge.

[jenlyon60]

Each test chair does things differently, depending on the volume of tests they have to administer and the amount of time they have in which to conduct the tests. Not every club sees a great many adult MIF/FS tests (although probably more of those each year than pairs tests, unless the club is based at a rink/area with lots of pairs in training).

For the tests I've judged, generally I am e-mailed a copy of the basic test schedule (albeit not annotated with which specific tests the test chair has assigned to me). But from that basic test schedule, I will know how many of which tests are being given, and when I need to be at the rink, prepared to judge or trial judge.

[NickB]

At my club, we always see the schedule in advance and there have rarely been any changes. I'm sure all clubs give the judges the schedule at the beginning of the test session at the latest, so there would probably be time to review the test beforehand, and I certainly would. In fact, I will make an adult moves cheat sheet right now since the subject came up. It will cut down on the time to review before the test because all of the info on the moves and adult standards for each test will be in one place as opposed to scrambled.

Also just to be clear I'm not planning on testing very soon or anything, and haven't been going through the whole test yet, in which case I obviously would've figured out what the moves and the order was. ;) I've just been working on various moves with my coach in isolation, and adult bronze is the next test I am planning to take and most of the moves we have been concentrating on are on that test.

[NickB]

OK, here is the cheat sheet I just made. It outlines mainly the differences between the standard and adult tests. The expectations and common errors for standard track tests are available http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/MIFSchoolManual.pdf

Actually I just noticed that there is a separate link for Adult MIF standards that lists them test by test. I had never noticed that before, but it is outdated anyway. It also lists the expectations and common errors for standard track too, so this might be an even better link. http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/AdultMIFcomp.pdf

I just noticed a contradiction, however. For the backward double 3-turns in the first link (which I had printed and what I was getting my original information from), it says the 3-turns should be close to the thirds of the lobe (which is different from the standard track test), whereas on the 2nd link it says they should be at the top and 2/3 of the lobe (like the standard test). I'll email someone to ask about this but will go by the pattern that is the same as the standard track test until I hear otherwise. I will let you know what I hear.


Adult Pre-Bronze Moves:
1. Forward Perimeter Stroking
Primary Focus: Continuous flow & strength
Secondary Focus: Extension
Notes:
• 4 to 8 strokes
• Essentially the same standard as pre-preliminary

2. Basic Consecutive Edges
Primary Focus: Edge quality
Notes:
• Expect shallow back edges
• May start with up to 3 introductory steps, including a 3-turn
• Equal depth of lobes not expected

3. Forward and Backward Crossovers
Primary Focus: Continuous flow and strength
• 4 to 6 crossovers per circle
• Adequate posture
• Maintain power
• Some toe pushing acceptable

4. Waltz Eight
Primary Focus: Edge quality
• Some control of all positions and edges
• Awareness of waltz timing
• Control after 3s and Mohawks in a check position
• Does not need to come back to same center
• Some evidence of good posture

5A. Forward Three-turn Pattern
Primary Focus: Edge quality

OR, until September 1, 2006,

5B. Alternating Forward Three-turns
Primary Focus: Edge quality
• Crossover before stepping forward is optional
• May balance on two feet prior to stepping forward



Adult Bronze Moves:
1. Forward Perimeter Power Crossover Stroking
Primary Focus: Continuous flow & strength
Secondary Focus: Extension
Notes:
• Correct pattern & primary focus
• General maintenance of axis to set up for proper curvature of lobes
• Both crossovers of similar quality

2. Backwards Perimeter Power Crossover Stroking
Primary Focus: Continuous flow & strength
Secondary Focus: Edge quality
Notes:
• Correct pattern & primary focus
• General maintenance of axis to set up for proper curvature of lobes
• Both crossovers of similar quality

3. Forward Power Three-Turns
Primary Focus: Continuous flow & strength
• Adequate power with consistent speed
• Expect lobes to be more shallow than those of standard testers, not perpendicular to axis
• Basic concept of lobing shown
• General maintenance of axis
• 3-turn lobe may be smaller than back crossover lobe (on standard and adult track)

4. Alternating Back Crossovers to Back Outside Edges
Primary Focus: Continuous flow and strength
Secondary focus: Extension
• Adequate speed and posture
• Momentary balance on two feet after edge before next crossover permissible
• Otherwise same as standard track

5. Five-Step Mohawk Sequence
Primary Focus: Edge quality
Secondary Focus: Extension
• Reasonable ice coverage
• Each step should be reasonably equal
• Correct edges with even extension throughout
• Mohawks at approximately 1/3 point in the lobe


Adult Silver Moves:
1. Eight-Step Mohawk Sequence
Primary Focus: Quickness
Secondary Focus: Continuous flow and strength
Notes:
• Circular shape reasonably maintained throughout
• Diameter of circle should be larger than hockey circle in middle of the rink
• Skater should complete more than one revolution of the circle (in 3 patterns)

2. Forward and Backward Cross Strokes
Primary Focus: Continuous flow and strength
Notes:
• Toe pushing should be generally avoided
• Need to push off outside edges
• Listen for “rip”
• Cross steps should be avoided

3-4. FO-BI and FI-BO Three-turns in the Field
Primary Focus: Edge quality
Notes:
• Maintain reasonable control of the body
• Controlled edges with minimal subcurves
• Reasonable control of turns in and out
• Some variance of posture allowed
• Generally adherence to continuous axis

5. Forward Left and Right Foot Spirals
Primary Focus: Extension
Notes:
• Same as standard pre-preliminary test

6. Forward and Backward Power Pulls
Primary Focus: Continuous flow and strength
• No notes on differences from standard track; use best judgment



Adult Gold Moves:
1. Forward Power Circles
Primary focus: Continuous flow and strength
Notes:
• No more than 15 crossovers recommended
• Full acceleration will not be as fast as standard test
• No toe pushing
• Circle size will increase

2. Backward Power Circles
Primary focus: Continuous flow and strength
Notes:
• No more than 15 crossovers recommended
• Full acceleration will not be as fast as standard test
• No toe pushing
• Circle size will increase

3-4. Forward and Backward Double Three-Turns
Primary focus: Edge quality
Notes:
• Reasonable control of arc between forward and back turn
• Minimal subcurves after turns
• Turns should be placed close to the thirds of the lobe for forward double 3s (same as standard juvenile test)
• Turns should be placed close at the top and two-thirds of the lobe for backward double 3s (same as standard intermediate test)*

5. Inside Slide Chasse Pattern
Primary focus: Edge quality
Secondary focus: Extension
Notes:
• Reasonable posture
• Even flow throughout
• Pattern will be smaller than standard test
• Listen for “rip” during chasses
• These were the expectations when this was on the silver test

6. Brackets in the Field
Primary focus: Edge quality
Notes:
• Reasonable control of turn, body alignment, and edges
• Minimal subcurves
• Adherence to continuous axis

*Unless I hear that the other version was correct. I wonder if the reason for the difference is that the forward and backward double 3s are on the same test on the adult track but on different tests in the standard track, so for the adults they made the expectation for placement for both sets the same.

[NickB]

The response from the official at the USFSA was that it should look like the intermediate moves in the field test (where the diagram shows the 3s at the top and 2/3 of the lobe) and that the controlled, even timing of the turns is more important than the actual placement of the turns on the ice, so slight variations in the pattern are OK as long as the skater shows the necessary edge quality and extension. Good info to know for skaters and judges alike (and those who do both).

[Skate@Delaware]

4. Waltz Eight
Primary Focus: Edge quality
• Some control of all positions and edges
• Awareness of waltz timing
• Control after 3s and Mohawks in a check position
• Does not need to come back to same center
• Some evidence of good posture

I'm not aware of a mohawk in the waltz-8......did i miss it??? 8O i hope not...i hate having to un-learn and re-learn things :frus:

[Debbie S]

I'm not aware of a mohawk in the waltz-8......did i miss it??? 8O i hope not...i hate having to un-learn and re-learn things :frus:The mohawk is the step from BO edge to FO edge - it's a BO mohawk. It also comes up in the 5-step mohawk sequence on the Bronze test.

[Skate@Delaware]

The mohawk is the step from BO edge to FO edge - it's a BO mohawk. It also comes up in the 5-step mohawk sequence on the Bronze test.
wow! i did one without even realizing it!!! i feel stupid now.....

[lovepairs]

And the fact that you're a judge and don't know what's on what test is kind of scary - I'm not trying to point fingers at you specifically, but it's frightening to think that judges aren't informed of the correct moves of a test that they could end up judging.

A very common problem. Pairsman and I have taken several tests where we were penalized for not doing something that wasn't even on the test. For instance, when we took the Adult Gold Pair test, one of the judges marked that we lacked side-by-side double jumps, which are not on the test. When we brought this to her attention, she took out a pencil and errassed her mistake right in front of us, and infront of a bunch of other judges, too, and no one flinched. Then on the same test, at another time, a judge marked our Split Twist as a throw and not a lift, and said that we were lacking a lift in the test. If she counted the Split Twist Lift (hello, LIFT is even in the name,) she would have counted that we had the correct number of lifts for the test. We've been penalized by judges who don't know what is suppossed to be on a test more then once. We've stopped bringing this stuff back to the judges, because they become really flustered when we bring it to their attention, and look at us like we have a third eye. We've decided that testing is a crap shoot when it comes to Adult Pairs tests, at the very least.

[jenlyon60]

Pairs tests are always a challenge. Unless a judge frequently judges at a major training center for pairs, it's very difficult to find pairs tests for trial judging or for activity.

Often a trial judge (at any level) looking for the necessary pairs credit has to be willing to either trial for test credit at an approved competition (for example Liberty Summer Competition, or regionals) or be willing to travel at short notice when they stumble on a test schedule that includes 1 or more pair tests (I've gotten e-mail notification as little as the day before telling me about out-of-state pairs tests.)

[lovepairs]

Hi Jenny,

Even if you receive notice only the day before you are scheduled to judge a pairs test, it would take about 15 minutes, or less, of reading the test sheet to understand what should be on the test. Am I missing something here?

In my profession, I am expected to fill out 10 page contracts at a momentous notice...believe me, I'd much rather be reading and trying to absorb a 1/2 page list of elements required on any particular test.

Here's the bottom line: I work up to a year, sometimes more, practicing for a test, I pay coaches all year long to teach me, I take out a second mortgage to pay for ice time, and then I pay fees to take the test. At the very least, I don't think it's asking too much of the judges to come prepared for the test they are judging. If they are not prepared then they really should recuse themselves from the panel, or not accept the appointment to begin with. Am I wrong about this? Missing something?

[NickB]

Sorry about your experience, lovepairs. I have been taking as many opportunities as I can to watch and learn about pairs, including buying a CD on pair lifts from Headquarters (which unfortunately is no longer available) and watching events on the Figure Skating Channel. It is very hard to find pair tests, and this coming weekend I am probably going to end up driving 4 hours each way for one intermediate pair test (luckily I found out about some high level tests at another club the same day but at a different time so I might as well go there too).

[Ellyn]

The required elements for the freestyle tests are listed at the bottom of the test form. Judges should definitely check there to see what they're looking for when judging the test.

At the last test session I was at, an experienced judge, in discussing the power pulls on the prejuvenile MITF test and the fact that juvenile MITF is hard to judge because it only has 4 moves, said "And we don't see power pulls again until . . . novice?" I said "Junior" (with rockers). But she wasn't in the middle of judging a novice or junior test at the time, so it's not a big deal that she didn't remember out of context which test a certain move is on. When judging the test, she'd have the sheet in front of her, and already has an idea of what a passing set of junior power pulls looks like.

[lovepairs]

Nick B,

I wish you were judging our Intermediate Pairs test, because you seem to be open to learning. I would have no problem taking 5 minutes with the judges before the test to go over what's on the test, and tell them what is including in our program to meet the requirements, but the judges where we are from don't seem to want to talk to us at all. I MEAN, NOT AT ALL. :bow: :frus:

It's too bad, because we could really learn from one another.

[icedancer2]

In my perfession, I am expected to fill out 10 page contracts at a momentous notice...believe me, I'd much rather be reading and trying to absorb a 1/2 page list of elements required on any particular test.



You are most likely getting paid to fill out those contracts -- those test judges are voluteers!!!

Actually I think what would be helpful is if some of the pairs would start trial judging, become judges and then maybe give seminars at judges schools to help teach pairs elements to the prospective and current judges. If you've never done pairs nad have never skated around pairs teams, most likely you have no idea how it works.

In defense of judges everywhere!!:twisted:

[jenlyon60]

The required elements for the freestyle tests are listed at the bottom of the test form. Judges should definitely check there to see what they're looking for when judging the test.

At the last test session I was at, an experienced judge, in discussing the power pulls on the prejuvenile MITF test and the fact that juvenile MITF is hard to judge because it only has 4 moves, said "And we don't see power pulls again until . . . novice?" I said "Junior" (with rockers). But she wasn't in the middle of judging a novice or junior test at the time, so it's not a big deal that she didn't remember out of context which test a certain move is on. When judging the test, she'd have the sheet in front of her, and already has an idea of what a passing set of junior power pulls looks like.

Didn't the Junior power pulls get moved from Novice to Junior a few years ago? I vaguely remember seeing the "twisty rockers" on the Novice MIF test at one point. Of course I could be remembering wrong or suffering from middle-aged forgetfulness.

[jenlyon60]

You are most likely getting paid to fill out those contracts -- those test judges are voluteers!!!

Actually I think what would be helpful is if some of the pairs would start trial judging, become judges and then maybe give seminars at judges schools to help teach pairs elements to the prospective and current judges. If you've never done pairs nad have never skated around pairs teams, most likely you have no idea how it works.

In defense of judges everywhere!!:twisted:

As a skater, I used to grouse about the occasional unreadability of comments on test papers. Then I started trial judging and learned very quickly that even with abbreviations, it can be very challenging to quickly and clearly write useful comments.

And even more so, when you're judging and you have to move on to the next test, but still have thoughts to finish about parts of the test you just finished judging.

I occasionally will try to ask various coaches if my comments have been useful to them, since sometimes I know that while what I wrote may have made sense to me, I can't be certain that it makes sense to the skater or the coach.

[vesperholly]

Didn't the Junior power pulls get moved from Novice to Junior a few years ago? I vaguely remember seeing the "twisty rockers" on the Novice MIF test at one point. Of course I could be remembering wrong or suffering from middle-aged forgetfulness.
There was a "twisty" move that was switched a while back, but it was the bracket-3-bracket pattern. It went from Intermediate to Novice, and was replaced at Intermediate with brackets in the field.

[jenlyon60]

That may be what I'm thinking of. This would have been back in 2001 or thereabouts.

[lovepairs]

You are most likely getting paid to fill out those contracts -- those test judges are voluteers!!!

Actually I think what would be helpful is if some of the pairs would start trial judging, become judges and then maybe give seminars at judges schools to help teach pairs elements to the prospective and current judges. If you've never done pairs nad have never skated around pairs teams, most likely you have no idea how it works.

IceDancer2,

No, in fact, I often don't get paid for filling out these contracts. I work on commission, and more times then not deals fall through. However, this is not the point: a job is a job, a responsibility is a responsibility, and if you accept an assignment, paid, or volunteer, it is your job and responsibility to see it through.

I would love to give seminars and talk to judges about Pair Skating, and, especially Adult Pair skating. My partner and I have tried to do this on several occassions, only to be turned down, and not always in the most polite way, either.

Now, here's an idea: if you are a judge assigned to judging pairs, and you accept the assignment, or you know you will be called to judge pairs from time-to-time all you need to do is put a tape of the last Olympic and Worlds in your VCR, and watch the Pairs Competition, and listen to Dick, Peggy, and Peter Curruthers identify and talk about the elements. Mostly everything that is on any pairs test will be covered in these competition. This is about one hour of watching TV. If you don't have a VCR, I'll let you borrow mine. If you don't have the tapes, I have them going all the way back to 1975 (all of the pairs competitions: Olympic, Worlds, Nationals) and I will let you borrow them. You do not need to have pair skated youself, or need to be in a rink where people pair skate. All you need is to have an interest in what you are judging and find a way to learn about what amounts to about a dozen elements, which are not done by dancers or single skaters.

There is no excuse coming to any job, voluteer, or otherwise unprepared. How would you like to be in the hospital and the voluteer comes in and removes the wrong tube?!

[Mrs Redboots]

wow! i did one without even realizing it!!! i feel stupid now.....Don't feel stupid, as it's only in the USA that this step is considered a Mohawk! In all other coutries it's just a step to forward - Mohawks, if from backwards to forwards, do not involve a push (and oh, how I wish they didn't from forward to backwards, too!).

As for judges - basically, I admire them enormously. Yes, they are only human, and yes, they make mistakes. I am still irritated with the judge who thought our Riverside Rhumba was on the off-beat last year when it wasn't, but these things happen. But I still admire them enormously - imagine voluntarily giving up your Sunday to watch a bunch of mediocre adults stumble and kick their way through the Canasta Tango and Dutch Waltz, for no more than travel costs and maybe a bottle of wine at the end of the day. And even then to say how much you enjoyed it, and what fun adult competitions are!

Or what about the judge who on one Sunday was judging the finals of the British Championships, the best skaters in the country - and the following Sunday was at our rink judging our club's winter competition. And his only comment was that he found it hard going back to the relative system now he was used to the NJS.

Sure, judges have their foibles. You get to know who will be that much more lenient with adults and who won't - I know that judge A would probably pass my level 3 dance moves if I tested them next week, but judge B definitely wouldn't, so you can't risk entering them in case you get judge B! You get to know who will mark you down if you do an over-elaborate start to a baby dance, or if you have elaborate arms and your feet don't match.

But judges are human. At international level, they have video replay to help them, but not at your average club test or competition session. They will make mistakes. Here, test judges explain to you then and there why they are passing you or failing you, or asking you to reskate an element, so you do get a chance to query their decision if, in your opinion, they've made a mistake. But they are highly trained people, who have been there and done that and know what it's like themselves..... and it's all voluntary!

No way would I be a judge, although I think the Husband would quite like it.

[lovepairs]

imagine voluntarily giving up your Sunday to watch a bunch of mediocre adults stumble and kick their way through the Canasta Tango and Dutch Waltz, for no more than travel costs and maybe a bottle of wine at the end of the day. And even then to say how much you enjoyed it, and what fun adult competitions are!

Hey, don't sell yourself short, or the rest of the adult skating community. Adult skaters are awesome, work very hard, spend a lot of money on this, and shouldn't feel as thought the judges are "doing them a favor by having to suffer through watching them skate a test."

The judges, as "human" as they are, which is totally besides the point, since we are all "human," should really come prepared for the assignment and simply know what is required on any given test. Personally, I don't believe that's asking too much of anyone "paid," or "volunteer," and, especially with what all skaters go through to reach the point where they are ready to test. Take a year of practice, coaches fees, ice time fees, and test fees, and weigh that against 15 minutes of a judges time to actually read the elements in the test that are on the test sheet right in front of them--I don't think that's asking too much--do you?

Also, I'm not judge "bashing," or saying that all judges don't know what they are doing. I'm just saying that there are some judges out there who really don't take the time to understand what is required on a test. We've encountered this too many times for it to be just a rare happening. It happens more often then it should--we hear this from other skaters, too.

[sk8pics]

Mohawks, if from backwards to forwards, do not involve a push (and oh, how I wish they didn't from forward to backwards, too!).

Yes they do have a push. You push onto the back outside edge and are supposed to push onto the forward outside edge. A step forward, like after a jump landing, doesn't have a push necessarily, though.

[Geek Skater]

Post deleted.

[Mrs Redboots]

Yes they do have a push. You push onto the back outside edge and are supposed to push onto the forward outside edge. A step forward, like after a jump landing, doesn't have a push necessarily, though.Ah, I think I may not have been clear - I was saying that in the UK a step from backwards to forwards isn't called a Mohawk unless there is no push involved (in some of the more advanced dances). This is not true in the USA, but there was some confusion as that is the only country (as far as I know) that calls a plain vanilla step to forwards a Mohawk.

[pairman2]

Dear Geek
With all due respect, I think your comment subtlely demonstrates what you critisize. I think all of us should try to read things twice and get beyond the 'voice' which indeed might come across as frustrated etc but as I personally know in the case of Lovepairs, is backed up by real experiences that are valid and should be discussed. If you carefully read the context upon which her comments are built, they are quite valid. Her comments, taken as a whole represent a whole spectrum of thought, positive, in between and negative. She does not beleive these threads are a format for only happy superficial banter. If she sees something thats whacky, she tells it like it is, and yes, with emotional content. All of us should be allowed that.

Sorry that I have to perpetuate this thread getting off track, but please, be aware of the context from which comments are being spoken.

[Isk8NYC]

Okay, back on thread...However, I've got to put some more work into the Power 3s and the 5 Step Mohawks in the next few weeks. They are both a little weak. Tips on these moves in particular? I guess I'm just going to do what I can and try and get higher scores than the passing average on the moves I do well with.For the Power 3s, make sure that you h-o-l-d the back inside edge after the 3-turn before you shift to the other foot. Keep your free hip tight, so the free leg doesn't drop down too fast. Then, place it on the ice and do the shift and the back crossover. It's actually more fun and demonstrates control and strength. To get a rhythm, try skating it to the music that's on the loudspeaker or your headphones. (One earpiece only,please)

Good luck. Hope you pass with flying colors.

[Geek Skater]

Dear Geek
With all due respect, I think your comment subtlely demonstrates what you critisize.
You are right. My apologies to lovepairs. I've deleted my post.

[Skate@Delaware]

Don't feel stupid, as it's only in the USA that this step is considered a Mohawk! In all other coutries it's just a step to forward - Mohawks, if from backwards to forwards, do not involve a push (and oh, how I wish they didn't from forward to backwards, too!).
My coach just calls it a step forward...maybe she just doesn't want me to freak out knowing that it's a mohawk!!!

[Debbie S]

My coach just calls it a step forward...maybe she just doesn't want me to freak out knowing that it's a mohawk!!!A mohawk is defined as a turn with a change of foot and direction but no change of edge (ex: BO to FO, FO to BO (called a FO mohawk and is in the 8-step on the Juv and Silver MIF tests), FI to BI (the first mohawk most people learn) ). So if it's a step in a different direction to a different foot with the same edge (outside or inside), it is automatically a mohawk. :)

[lovepairs]

Hey Geek,

Nice to meet you...I never had a chance to read your post, but thanks for the apology. It's a long story behind why I said what I said. Surfice it to say, though, that I have been unreasonably provoked by a certain skater on several occasions and simply had enough of it. Other skaters have noticed and written to me about it asking what this person has against me...hell if I know, but I just had enough of it--so I said "Ms. Polly Prissy Pants." More often I say this in a teasing way to friends, but this time I didn't mean it endearingly. I'm just tired of being "virtually stalked." Hope you and the others who don't know the background of this can understand my :frus:

By the way, how do you delete a post?

[Mrs Redboots]

My coach just calls it a step forward...maybe she just doesn't want me to freak out knowing that it's a mohawk!!!Your coach is right - it isn't a mohawk, it's a step to forwards!