Weight Loss, any suggestions?

[lovepairs]

Hi,

It's me, again. I'm 49, going through menopause, totally stuck at 142. Need to loose 12-14 lbs., and no matter what I do, I've been stuck in the same place for the last 3 years. Skate 5 days per week (thinking about cutting that down to 4.) Cross train twice a week: weight lifting. Like to walk and run track from time-to-time. Rarely eat any processed foods; eat mostly organic. Seems like everytime I eat any carbohydrate (even a complex one) it's an instant weight gain. I also have a problem with oil--like oil and vinegar on salad=instant weight gain. Again, don't eat any of the "low-fat," or "artificial sweetened" stuff, unless I'm absolutely starving and beg my pairs partner for a Power Bar. Otherwise, no sweetened juices, or soda...just water. The only thing I have left is coffee :frus: Mostly, eat: fruits, veggies, small amount of protein daily, and plain yogurt with Asodophilus.

Help :giveup:

Any of you gals in the same situation? Especially, the menapause part, which is new to me, and I'm not sure how it is effecting my weight. And, please, please, or pretty please, don't tell me to see my doctor...I've seen every doctor on the planet about this including having a compete thyroid run down at John Hopkins, and everyone tells me nothing is wrong with me. I excersise my brains out, eat very little, can't loose weight, and often gain weight from this plan. If anyone could help, or give advice, I'd be :bow:

[renatele]

I excersise my brains out, eat very little, can't loose weight, and often gain weight from this plan. If anyone could help, or give advice, I'd be :bow:

You do exercise quite a bit... I know this may sound very strange to you, but is it possible that you are eating *too* little? Do you have an idea of approximately how much (calorie-wise) you eat?

(yes, it's possible to eat too little, and gain weight and/or have trouble losing it)

[lovepairs]

Thanks for responding.

I eat anywhere from approx. 700-900 calories a day. When people suggest to me to eat more, I do, but suffer enormous and rapid weight gains--anywhere from 2-3 pounds per day (and, that's with just eating more of the same healthy food.)

I'm really just wondering what role the menapause is playing in it, and if anyone else out there has experienced what I'm going through???

[jp1andOnly]

You are eating WAY too little. At the beginning, you will gain weight as you eat more, but then will drop it.



Thanks for responding.

I eat anywhere from approx. 700-900 calories a day. When people suggest to me to eat more, I do, but suffer enormous and rapid weight gains--anywhere from 2-3 pounds per day (and, that's with just eating more of the same healthy food.)

I'm really just wondering what role the menapause is playing in it, and if anyone else out there has experienced what I'm going through???

[skateflo]

Whoa! That is far too few calories! Your body is now is survival mode and will not lose any more weight. Mother Nature does have a set point for you and fighting to get below that is hazardous. Yes, you will gain initially when you up your calories (and add more protein!) but then it will adjust and level off. I am concerned about the long term effects post-menopausal (osteoporosis) with such a restricted diet. Menopause does all sorts of tricks on our systems as we lose the estrogen - water gain, bloating, etc. Eating a well-balanced and correct calorie intake for the amount of your exercise is a must. You only mention pounds. What about the fit of your clothes?

Have you tried seeing a dietician?

I also recommend Nancy Clark's books on athletes and dieting - her stories abound with humor and insight. She used to have a column in the now defunct "Tracings" magazine out of New England. Go to a large bookstore and take a look at her books - she has several.

I had an appointment with her years ago (during menopause mainly because I was having awful weakness in the afternoon) and I was the typical adult skater - below adverage fat content below the waist, but she also said I was not eating enough! I changed my diet and after an initial few pounds gain, I gradually lost it and stayed within a 5 pound range ever since.

[lovepairs]

Too afraid to eat more at this point. I tried what you suggested about 4 times during the past two year, basically, bumping it up to 1200 calories. However, by week two of this, after gaining 8-10 lbs, I become really afraid and stop eating, again. This is what my pairs partner had me do--eat more, not a lot more, but eat a little more, and I gained 12 more lbs, which I really struggled to take off during the end of last summer and well into this year. Now, I'm just stuck at 142.

Has anyone tried this who is in a similar postion? Tried eating more--then the weight comes on--then it starts to come off? If yes, how long did you have to hold out eating more before it started to turn around?

[NickiT]

I'm in exactly the same situation with the eating healthily and skating my backside off bit, yet have still been gaining weight. I'm 38 and so the menopause isn't the reason. I've been receiving advice from a former fitness instructor and he says that I've been eating way too little for the amount of skating I do. His advice is to not eat less than 1500 calories per day and at present I'm "calorie-cycling" (varying the number of calories consumed from week to week) in order to kickstart my metabolism which according to him has gone into mega slow mode due to years of eating too little. He recommends eating little and often and with that I'm eating three meals and three snacks per day. I've been eating a lot more and haven't actually gained weight which is surprising, but no weight loss for me yet. However someone else who trains a lot upped her calories by 1000 a day and lost seven pounds in a matter of days, so there may be so truth in it.

ETA...I've been told to eat more, but absolutely no chocoalte, junk food, alcohol etc. I've never eaten so healthily in all my life!!

Nicki

[AndreaUK]

Hormones can be playing a massive part in this. When our bodies go through changes such as the change your metabolism will also change. Perhaps its an idea if you talk to your doctor and ask to be refered to a diet specalist? who may be able to reccommend something. You need to keep eating enough to keep your bones in good condition.
Its likely that once your body has gone through these changes that it will settle down again but it cant hurt to talk to your GP.

Andrea xx

[jazzpants]

I have the same exact problem (except for the menopause thing and the survival thing, since I am at around 1500 calories.) In my case, I think I need to cut back a bit more...

But in your case? Lemme ask 'ya, are you doing the same types of exercises? If so, it's possible that it's time to try new exercises so your body isn't used to it and you can lose the weight that way?

I unfortunately don't have much of a choice in my case for the cardio part. It's elliptical trainer or nothing. b/c I can't do high impact stuff b/c of my lower back and swimming just doesn't help me lose the weight. :frus: But I am changing the impact or the incline on the elliptical trainer to see if that works. We'll see, I guess. (It's really too bad on the lower back part, b/c that opens up a slew of exercise classes I would try now, like kickboxing.)

NickiT, you sound like me too! I think I'll try calories cycling for a while too and see what happens.

[Isk8NYC]

How tall are you? Is 142 within the guidelines for healthy weight:height ratio?

[techskater]

Have you had your body fat tested? Do you know your BMI? Do you use a heart rate monitor to determine caloric consumption?

My spouse is an extremely anal triathlete and he swears by these things to consume as many calories as he wants.

It also sounds like you aren't consuming enough protein or carbs.

[lovepairs]

WOW, you guys have been so helpful, and I don't feel so alone in this anymore. Not that I would wish this on anyone, but you know what I mean.

Skateflo,

I know I'm in survival mode, I can actually feel it. But shouldn't the weight lifting help build strong bones and head off the osetoperosis? The bloating is unbelievable!!! I don't have any clothes with which to tell; I've been living in skate clothes for the past 8 years and my closet is full of spandex, which tells you nothing. Thanks for the Nancy Clark recommendation--I'm going to see if Amazon.com has any of her books. And, yes, by the time 3:00pm comes around, I feel like I'm going to drop dead! :(

NikiT,

WOW, I thought I was the only one. I'm between a real rock and hard place with the food and excersizing. I only eat either nothing, or a banana, or one egg before I do a 2 hour session with Pairsman2. He eats what I eat in a whole week before we skate together--it's unbelievable. I think I'm just skating on sheer will at this point. I think my metabolism is finally DEAD :( The calorie cycling sounds interesting, but I'm so terrified of food at this point, I'm afraid to make one false move with it, so I don't eat anything. I don't eat junk food at all, and maybe I've had two sips of wine over the past 6 years--I don't drink, or smoke. In terms of liguids--just good ole H2O.

My idiot GP and GN don't care...I've been through many of these people over the years...they just look at me like I'm a freak show. I've totally given up on conventional medicine, but even my homeopath thinks I'm a metobolic freak. I've been to ODs, too. However, I've never consulted a dietician. Mostly, because I'm afraid that they'll make me eat. But, maybe it's time to go that route. I just can't get over how much I excersize, how little I eat, and how my body will not loose weight, but even gain it under these condition. Pairsman2 thinks that I'm Budda Boy--that you can put me under a tree, never feed me, and that I will never die. I thought if you stop eating you waste away and the eventually die.

Jazzpants, GET OUT OF HERE...YOU, TOO!!! No, I'm varying the cross-training: sometime bicycle, sometimes track, sometimes really long walks. The skating and weight lifting are constants, though. Oh, I also do a lot of off-ice by myself and with Pairsman2.

Isk8NYC,

I'm perfect for a normal woman 5'6" 142, but not for a pairs lady.

Techskate,

Last time my body fat was 21%, which I thought was good. My BMI was in the right place, but I can't remember what it was. I eat enough protein, but hardly any carbs at all. No bread...only carbs I eat, rarley, are things like broccholi, and califlower.

You guys are awesome for trying to help me. I feel better and I'm going to look into talking to a dietician. Then I think I need to get my head fixed. I don't like how I look on the skating tapes. I used to be 128 four years ago and that felt perfect, and I liked what I looked like, and I felt that the effort and aesthetic pleasure that I got out of the whole thing really matched. Now I feel like I'm putting so much work into it with little to no pay off--it feels unbalanced.

Thank you so much for reaching out with suggestions!

[jp1andOnly]

Yes, please seek out a dietician, and perhaps someone to help you with your overall body image. There is obvious issue about that, which is something a dietician can't help you with. If you are afriad of what they will tell you and will basically void the diet set in place over the fear of gaining weight, then something is wrong. Hopefully you can get the professional help you need ot have a normal view of your body.



WOW, you guys have been so helpful, and I don't feel so alone in this anymore. Not that I would wish this on anyone, but you know what I mean.

Skateflo,

I know I'm in survival mode, I can actually feel it. But shouldn't the weight lifting help build strong bones and head off the osetoperosis? The bloating is unbelievable!!! I don't have any clothes with which to tell; I've been living in skate clothes for the past 8 years and my closet is full of spandex, which tells you nothing. Thanks for the Nancy Clark recommendation--I'm going to see if Amazon.com has any of her books. And, yes, by the time 3:00pm comes around, I feel like I'm going to drop dead! :(

NikiT,

WOW, I thought I was the only one. I'm between a real rock and hard place with the food and excersizing. I only eat either nothing, or a banana, or one egg before I do a 2 hour session with Pairsman2. He eats what I eat in a whole week before we skate together--it's unbelievable. I think I'm just skating on sheer will at this point. I think my metabolism is finally DEAD :( The calorie cycling sounds interesting, but I'm so terrified of food at this point, I'm afraid to make one false move with it, so I don't eat anything. I don't eat junk food at all, and maybe I've had two sips of wine over the past 6 years--I don't drink, or smoke. In terms of liguids--just good ole H2O.

My idiot GP and GN don't care...I've been through many of these people over the years...they just look at me like I'm a freak show. I've totally given up on conventional medicine, but even my homeopath thinks I'm a metobolic freak. I've been to ODs, too. However, I've never consulted a dietician. Mostly, because I'm afraid that they'll make me eat. But, maybe it's time to go that route. I just can't get over how much I excersize, how little I eat, and how my body will not loose weight, but even gain it under these condition. Pairsman2 thinks that I'm Budda Boy--that you can put me under a tree, never feed me, and that I will never die. I thought if you stop eating you waste away and the eventually die.

Jazzpants, GET OUT OF HERE...YOU, TOO!!! No, I'm varying the cross-training: sometime bicycle, sometimes track, sometimes really long walks. The skating and weight lifting are constants, though. Oh, I also do a lot of off-ice by myself and with Pairsman2.

Isk8NYC,

I'm perfect for a normal woman 5'6" 142, but not for a pairs lady.

Techskate,

Last time my body fat was 21%, which I thought was good. My BMI was in the right place, but I can't remember what it was. I eat enough protein, but hardly any carbs at all. No bread...only carbs I eat, rarley, are things like broccholi, and califlower.

You guys are awesome for trying to help me. I feel better and I'm going to look into talking to a dietician. Then I think I need to get my head fixed. I don't like how I look on the skating tapes. I used to be 128 four years ago and that felt perfect, and I liked what I looked like, and I felt that the effort and aesthetic pleasure that I got out of the whole thing really matched. Now I feel like I'm putting so much work into it with little to no pay off--it feels unbalanced.

Thank you so much for reaching out with suggestions!

[Sk8pdx]

Lovepairs,
I do not have any suggestions to offer you but what I am glad to see is that you are looking for healthy ways to accomplish weight loss.

It is very easy to get caught up in the ideals of what the perfect pair lady should be. However I have watched AN on the figure skating channel (since I am not at a bronze level yet, even pre-bronze, and cannot experience AN in person but that will be changing in the next few years, guaranteed!;) ) OH ... and that is a lovely dress you are wearing by the way! You and Pairsman2 skated beautifully.

I am a little concerned or confused by your reply to Isk8NYC,

I'm perfect for a normal woman 5'6" 142, but not for a pairs lady.

By what standard do you consider a perfect pair lady? If it is 5'2'' 102 lbs, you and I are both out of luck (I am 5'5 about 130lbs). This seems to me to be the statement in your mind that is leading you as the main reason for weight loss. (as well a coming to terms with "the change" you are going through) There may be also a secondary motivator to simply be healthy. but you already are with the exception of your low calorie intake.

In case you didn't already know, you and your partner already make a perfect pair. :bow: :)

[lovepairs]

Oh, Skat8, please don't get me wrong. I have no desire to be a petite pairs lady. I'm actually not that turned on by large men skating with very small ladies. I'm more interested in the Tai and Randy model. It's more of a technical thing. Pairsman2 can lift me now, but I know if I'm about 10 lbs lighter that it would be easier on his back. It's amazing, but we can both tell the difference in our lifts every time I vary in 5 lb increments. What a lot of people don't know out there is that it is not just the man's strength that gets you and holds you up there, but it is also the ladies strength to hold herself up there, too. I know if I had more muscle to a little less fat ratio that not only would it be eaier for him, but it would be easier for me and cause less strain on my shoulders. It's more about safety and ease in terms of pairskating, but it is also appearance, too. Again, by no means do I want to be something extremely what I am not, but I do want to be the best I can be for myself. I just haven't figured out how to eat, train, and control my weight, yet.

Thank you for your completment about our pair team. I guess I'm just too close it to see it...I just see where it can be better, but, you are right...it is what it is, and it can always be better.

Also, I have a history with obesity. I lost 95 lbs and have kept it off for the past 14 years now. Skating is a big part of turning my life around. So, I think I'm afraid of my life going back to what it used to be, which was not healthy at all...probably over compensating.

[Hannah]

I think what I have to say has already been covered, but I just wanted to add one more voice-

Please see a dietician and a counselor, at the same time. And soon. I'm shocked that the other doctors you went to didn't ask about your diet, or if they did, didn't refer you to both of the above specialists.

Bone loss is certainly a risk, but so is a heart attack, particularly with the amount that you exercize. The longer you continue this way, the higher your risk of death or severe complications is.

When you change your diet, you will gain weight, probably much more than you are comfortable with. This is your body responding to increased food in a time of famine (from your body's point of view). The weight you gain first will likely be in the form of fat (again, your body's way of saving your life!). When your metabolism calms down and realizes you aren't starving, you will return to a normal weight and a healthier body- and you will have more energy and feel better all day, your skating will probably improve, and so on. Seeing a counselor (try to find one that specializes in eating disorders) will help you feel more comfortable with these changes.

You have a hard road ahead of you- but you are NOT alone, and if you take it, you will live longer, and be happier and healthier.

[kayskate]

I'm perfect for a normal woman 5'6" 142, but not for a pairs lady.

Last time my body fat was 21%, which I thought was good. My BMI was in the right place, but I can't remember what it was.


You are not overweight. You do not need to lose wt. You probably can't lose wt b/c you are at a healthy wt for your body. In fact, you might be at too low a wt. You are eating far too little.

This "pairs lady" things sounds weird. So you like to skate pairs, great! However, not everyone has the genetics to be an ideal pair skater. You are an adult, so why are you obsessed w/ dieting down to a pairs skater size? What are your goals w/ Pair skating? That seems to be the big question here. Are you a professional skater and this is how you earn your living? If not, you might need to reevaluate your priorities. I do not mean quit pairs or skating, but be more realistic about your body and who you are at this point in your life. Are you enjoying skating or are you just upset that you are not small?

Please don't think I am trying to be unkind. I have been in a similar situation. I am a healthy woman, and bigger than you. I do not have a great body for axels and such. I was beating myself up over it. I finally had to reevaluate my goals and accept who I am.

Kay

[NickiT]

You are not overweight. You do not need to lose wt. You probably can't lose wt b/c you are at a healthy wt for your body. Kay

I must admit I thought pretty much the same when I saw how much you weigh against your height, lovepairs. I weigh the same but am shorter, so I know I need to lose some!

I'd definitely try increasing your calorie intake. Like I say I'm doing that, and I haven't actually gained anything given the increase in calories. Not lost anything yet either but I'm determined to stick at it and hope that in time I see a loss. At the end of the day I couldn't continue the way I was. My body needed food and I wasn't giving it and it looks like it was storing EVERYTHING I ate as fat. I now know for a fact that dieting does make you fat because I'm living proof of that!

Nicki

[SkatingOnClouds]

Well I am 96kgs, which is 211 lbs. I am definitely way too fat for my 5'6".
I am finding this thread intriguing though, because I also struggle to lose weight.

My husband, who is a chef who specialises in nutrition and special diets, shrugs and says it's my metabolism. I would add my voice to those urging you to consult a sports dietician or nutritionist, someone who will look at the whole of you and the exercise you do.

I build big muscles very fast, so although my weight hasn't changed much since starting skating, my shape has. Muscle weighs more than fat.

Lovepairs, a large proportion of your body weight has to be muscle, from all the skating and weight training you do. On that Joubert off ice video clip that was posted recently, wasn't it said that he doesn't do weight training because he builds too much muscle and that weighs him down?

It's just a thought, but this could apply to you too.

[lovepairs]

This "pairs lady" things sounds weird. So you like to skate pairs, great! However, not everyone has the genetics to be an ideal pair skater. You are an adult, so why are you obsessed w/ dieting down to a pairs skater size? What are your goals w/ Pair skating? That seems to be the big question here. Are you a professional skater and this is how you earn your living? If not, you might need to reevaluate your priorities. I do not mean quit pairs or skating, but be more realistic about your body and who you are at this point in your life. Are you enjoying skating or are you just upset that you are not small?

Well Kayskate, I never said that I wasn't genetically disposed to pair skating, or that I wanted to be "small." If you would have read the previous thread, I mentioned that I was more interested in the Tai and Randy model for pair skating then I was with matching very tiny women up with very tall strong and big men on purpose. However, unless you've ever been in a pairs relationship and pursued this sport, I would imagine that it would be hard for anyone to understand what I am trying to do here...So, I will stop talking about it, because all my words and intentions are getting twisted around, and it is starting not to become very helpful. It doesn't matter if you're a kid, adult, professional, non-professional, or why you do, or pursue pairskating at all...pairskating has the same "blueprint" if you will for anyone doing it, and my reasons for becomming the best "I" can be at it are very very personal, and I feel that I am entitled to that.

Anyway, I did find and order Nancy Clark's "Athlete's Nutrition Guide" book, and I'm looking forward to reading it. Thank you so much for that suggestion, it is very helpful! I will also look into working with a Nutritionist/Dietician, too, since that is one path I haven't explored as of, yet.

Nicki and Skating on Clouds, thank you for understanding. I agree "dieting" never works, which is why I had to go through a complete life style change 14 years, ago, and am still working on it. Thanks everyone for you help and advice. I'm going to step off of this thread now, and leave it to other skaters who might want to continue talking about this, or similar issues.

Thank you all, again, I do sincerely appreciated everything everyone has said about this issue.

Lovepairs

[Rusty Blades]

I'm really just wondering what role the menapause is playing in it, and if anyone else out there has experienced what I'm going through???

*** Dianne raises her hand ***

Yup. I know what you are going through, EXACTLY!

I am 56, 5' 9", and was 225 pounds when I started skating last January ('06). Losing weight was one of the reasons I started skating again. I cut my calories in half and cut WAY down on carbs. (I had already cut refined sugar out of my diet a few years ago.) I skate 6 hours a week in 3 sessions and usually do off-ice training on the other days.

Despite the high level of exercise, I have not lost weight :cry: When I was back into skating for awhile, I found myself craving protien so I have become a real carnivore, but I try to keep to low fat. Oh, I did drop about 8 pounds initially, and then it came back :x I know muscle is part of the weight gain - I skated as a teenager and "the thighs that could crush a bus" reappeared within the first few weeks! - but I too am astounded at how little I can eat ("healthy foods") and not lose an OUNCE!

My off-ice trainer suggested that my weight might NOT be a problem, that I have been losing fat and gaining muscle and that my weight might be my "natural weight" and that my shape ("round") is a matter of conditioning those midriff muscles. She might be right because my waist came back (I hadn't seen it for YEARS!) but I've still got too much tummy.

I have had problems with bloating to and it seems to be the worst when I am playing herbivore (too many salads) to try to lose weight. When I stick with the protien, it doesn't seems to be as much of a problem.

I haven't found the answer! If you do, LET US KNOW!!!

[VegasGirl]

I'm perfect for a normal woman 5'6" 142, but not for a pairs lady.

Well, in that case my advice would be to quit pairs and skate singles... seriously! Your weight is perfectly normal for your height and especially at your age, your body fat is perfect too... don't wreck your health over skating, it's not worth it!

Further, I do think that you're not eating balanced enough, you're lacking carbs for proper energy production in your body which might explain your sluggish metabolism.

Someone asked earlier if you've ever been to a dietician to have a plan put together specifically for your needs. If not, please give it a try!

[VegasGirl]

@Rusty Blades,

I think you have the same problem in that you're just not eating a well balanced healthy diet. I think you too would benefit tremendously from a consultation with a dietician.

Another question though, do you do any aerobic exercise?

[Rusty Blades]

I think you too would benefit tremendously from a consultation with a dietician.

Another question though, do you do any aerobic exercise?

Been there, done that, no help.

Aerobic? Yes, regularly.

[VegasGirl]

Aerobic? Yes, regularly.

What kind, how often and how long?

[slusher]

That was my thought, how much and what kind of aerobic exercise are you doing?
Although I dislike it (it's very fast) I do the stroking class 3x a week. It's 30 minutes of Russian stroking and crosscuts with no stopping. Figure skating is more like interval training, and you need to make sure you get a sustained aerobic component.

Secondly, although lovepairs has walked away from this thread, I hope she continues to read. In the first NCCP course on coaching theory ( required for Canadian coaches), nutrition is covered extensively. I've taken this course and went and found the web link on nutrition for the athlete.
here (http://www.coach.ca/eng/nutrition/index.cfm)

just off topic, my own coach asks me what I've been eating, and I get the occasional "less beer please" lecture.

[VegasGirl]

I'm between a real rock and hard place with the food and excersizing. I only eat either nothing, or a banana, or one egg before I do a 2 hour session with Pairsman2. He eats what I eat in a whole week before we skate together--it's unbelievable. I think I'm just skating on sheer will at this point. I think my metabolism is finally DEAD :( The calorie cycling sounds interesting, but I'm so terrified of food at this point, I'm afraid to make one false move with it, so I don't eat anything. I don't eat junk food at all, and maybe I've had two sips of wine over the past 6 years--I don't drink, or smoke. In terms of liguids--just good ole H2O.

My idiot GP and GN don't care...I've been through many of these people over the years...they just look at me like I'm a freak show. I've totally given up on conventional medicine, but even my homeopath thinks I'm a metobolic freak. I've been to ODs, too. However, I've never consulted a dietician. Mostly, because I'm afraid that they'll make me eat. But, maybe it's time to go that route. I just can't get over how much I excersize, how little I eat, and how my body will not loose weight, but even gain it under these condition. Pairsman2 thinks that I'm Budda Boy--that you can put me under a tree, never feed me, and that I will never die. I thought if you stop eating you waste away and the eventually die.


@Lovepairs (hope you're still reading),

Just read over the thread again and I have to say that the above concerns me quite a bit, sounds to me like you have an eating disorder. Hasn't anyone else ever suggested that to you before?

Please, go see a specialist and talk it over... please, before you cause major harm!

[beachbabe]

well I can't say much about menopause or slow metabolism problems, but I can definately share some experience.



I find that sometimes if I stress out i hardly eat, and when i eat very little I gain weight like crazy. And very noticeably too.

When i'm feeling good and on weekends and during the summer and when I'm skating, I eat A LOT, probably double what my friends eat and i actually lose weight, look and feel good.

in the end, the stress weight gain and the weight loss even out and I stay about the same, but really- the morw I eat the more weight I lose because your metabolism works much harder if you eat more.



i know what you mean about pairs skating- its something i've always wanted to do, but at 17, 5'7 and weighing 138 i'm probably too heavy to be a pairs scater but I really don't care because i know I could never be 100. I mean, I'm a size 4 so i really don't feel like i've even got much weight to lose.



So my advice-

1) eat up-especially before and after practice since you need energy before and your metabolism works faster after excercise.

2) don't stress- stress=weight gain, even if its stress over your weight, give yourself a break

[Lmarletto]

I'm pre-menopausal (whacked out cycles, no hot flashes yet), 5'4" and 125-130lbs. I haven't found that cardio has a significant effect on weight loss unless I do at least 40min at 70% of my max heart rate 3x/week. I also had the best weight loss results with a diet that alternated 1000 cal and 1800 cal days. I planned my 1800 cal days for the 2-4 days/week when I "needed" them rather than sticking religiously to an alternating schedule and I still lost 2-3lb/week over 3months. Long term, 2-3 1000 cal days/week, with no restrictions the rest of the week, has been enough. I'm satisfied with 20% body fat though.

[FallDownGoBoom]

Have you had a complete blood panel lately? With a thyroid screen? It's a great place to start.

[Chico]

Don't kick me.....I'm 5'2 and 102 lbs. I've ALWAYS been a small person and this is normal for me. I find eating small frequent meals has always worked for me. Make sure you include protein and dairy products. I also suggest checking in with a doctor. I try very hard to listen to my body and believe it or not I have a pretty good idea what my body wants. I had a huge craving for prunes and red meat once. I can't even tell you how bad AND my body was low in iron. It knew! If your body says it's straving, FEED it. I'm too young for menopause but I'm definitely an old fart.

Chico

[sj702]

I agree with the above poster... Get your thyroid checked, but by a endocrinologist. I was checked by a GP and they never found the thyroid problem [Hashimotos], the endocrinologist will do more indepth testing and is better trained to read the tests.

I have Hashimotos Thyroiditis, gastroparesis, pancreatitis and SLE Lupus... Due to physical illness, hospitialzations, surgeries, medications and so on I have had problems with weight, from very low to high. What I have found that helps me is a low glycemic diet, when I can eat it. I still must fast regularly to stave off pancreatitis attacks and lupus flare ups. I thought I really messed up my metabolism too, but dr.'s have okay'd vigorous areobic exercise 12 hours a week with 500 - 800 calories a day, that has been the only way I have been able to lose weight... But I have dr.'s keeping an eye on me and regular blood work done.

:giveup:*** Just to note: It's very easy to jump to 'eating disorder', but there are some very valid medical conditions out there to take into concideration as well. When I first began having gastro problems and pancreatitis attacks, many people accused me of being anorexic, little did they know my pancreas was shutting down... Nor would they believe me, if they only knew the horrific physical pain I was in.

Anywho, here are some glycemic tables:
Low Glycemic Table: http://www.southbeach-diet-plan.com/lowglycemicfoodlist.htm
Medium Glycemic Table: http://www.southbeach-diet-plan.com/mediumglycemicfoodslist.htm
High Glycemic Table:
http://www.southbeach-diet-plan.com/highglycemicfoodslist.htm

And for those of you with normal systems here is a caloric equation for finding daily maintenance calories:
To maintain your current weight, multiply current weight by 10 to get you BMR . Then multiply your BMR by your activity factor [1.3 light; 1.5 moderate; 2.0 vigorous]. The final number will be your daily maintenance calories.
[B]Current weight X 10 X activity factor = Daily Maintenance Calories.
To lose 1 pound a week - 500 calories from your daily maintenance calories

[Sk8pdx]

I do not think Lovepairs has an eating disorder. From her earlier reply to me She is very realistic to want to lose only 10 lbs and researching healthy ways to do it. and she provided worthy reasons why. Give the poor girl some room!G-whiz!
Menopause (:twisted: ) must be like a hormone tsunami on steroids. I am not looking forward to that stage in my life that is for sure.

Way to go Lovepairs for losing 95 lbs already and keeping it off for 14 years! :bow:

[VegasGirl]

:giveup:*** Just to note: It's very easy to jump to 'eating disorder', but there are some very valid medical conditions out there to take into concideration as well. When I first began having gastro problems and pancreatitis attacks, many people accused me of being anorexic, little did they know my pancreas was shutting down... Nor would they believe me, if they only knew the horrific physical pain I was in.

But were you talking about being afraid that someone would tell you to eat more? Were you horrified of consuming food, terrified of food in general?
I'd venture to say not but that's exactly what Lovepairs wrote... which in turn raised a warning flag in me. And trust me, I'm not easy to jump to conclusion, any conclusion especially in regards to eating habits since some would concider mine on the odd side as well.

P.S. You make it sond like 'eating disorder' is a bad word/an insult and not a valid medical condition at all... the contrary is true!

[VegasGirl]

From her earlier reply to me She is very realistic to want to lose only 10 lbs and researching healthy ways to do it.

Eating just 700-800 cal a day is not a healthy way to lose weight... but again, what worries me more is her mental relationship/image of food. She is literally starving herself... so maybe that doesn't qualify her for an eating disorder yet, but certainly for a quite ascew picture of nutrition and health.

[Skate@Delaware]

It's really hard to say what it is at this point without a medical doctor's evaluation. I will say, I am 44 and when I hit 40 the weight on me would not budge off at all. My weight ballooned up to 205+++. I went on the South Beach diet and after 2 years have lost 75 pounds. I also exercise several times a week (aerobic and weights), and when my rink is open skate 10-15 hours a week. I would estimate my daily calorie consumption about 1500-2000 calories (yes, I get to eat junk occasionally).

There are many conditions and problems that could cause the weight to not budge, not consuming enough calories, consuming too many calories, eating the wrong types of foods, thyroid, hormones, stress, depression, exercising too much, etc. If the doctor cannot find the cause (i.e. medical tests come back normal), then a diet evaluation is in order. I would hope that the dietition/nutritionist and your doctor would work together in this.

But, 700-800 calories is not enough calories for even BMR, let alone an athlete!

[flippet]

Eating just 700-800 cal a day is not a healthy way to lose weight... but again, what worries me more is her mental relationship/image of food. She is literally starving herself... so maybe that doesn't qualify her for an eating disorder yet, but certainly for a quite ascew picture of nutrition and health.

I totally agree. I certainly can't diagnose an "eating disorder"...only a doctor can do that. But from what lovepairs wrote, it's most definitely disordered eating. If she's 'afraid' to eat, then something is wrong, and she needs to see a dietician/nutritionist, and possibly more specialists. Losing or not losing weight is not the issue. Relationship with food is the issue.

Newsweek did an article on anorexia in December, it's here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10219756/site/newsweek/page/2/). It focuses on children, but I think some of it applies to growing numbers of adults with it too. Here's a couple of quotes:

Although no one can yet say for certain, new science is offering tantalizing clues. Doctors now compare anorexia to alcoholism and depression, potentially fatal diseases that may be set off by environmental factors such as stress or trauma, but have their roots in a complex combination of genes and brain chemistry.

Scientists are tracking important differences in the brain chemistry of anorexics. Using brain scans, researchers at the University of Pittsburgh, led by professor of psychiatry Dr. Walter Kaye, discovered that the level of serotonin activity in the brains of anorexics is abnormally high. Although normal levels of serotonin are believed to be associated with feelings of well-being, these pumped-up levels of hormones may be linked to feelings of anxiety and obsessional thinking, classic traits of anorexia. Kaye hypothesizes that anorexics use starvation as a mode of self-medication. How? Starvation prevents tryptophane, an essential amino acid that produces serotonin, from getting into the brain. By eating less, anorexics reduce the serotonin activity in their brains, says Kaye, "creating a sense of calm," even as they are about to die of malnutrition.
Seriously. Get help, because you're starving yourself, and it's obviously not producing the results you want--which it won't, because biology and chemistry simply doesn't operate that way.

[dooobedooo]

Just wanted to say ... DO have a full medical checkup in case there is some medical reason for your water retention, etc. (Kidneys? Ovaries?)

BTW, as I am perimenopausal myself, I recently went four months without a period and my body shape briefly changed, with fatter middle and thinner chest. It all sorted out with the next period, thankfully.

[jazzpants]

Okay, something for you (me too! I'm not that much younger than you guys... 8O ) to read about menopause!

http://www.reutershealth.com/wellconnected/doc40.html

Weight gain is quite normal during these days. HOWEVER... (sounding like John Nicks on Skating w/Celebrities here...) I would strongly suggest a doctor and dietician combo to help you keep your weight down w/o resorting to going 700-900 calories a day!!! 8O (Yeah, that will kick your body into starvation mode and your body is perserving whatever's left of your body b/c you're not feeding into it!)

Also, the medicine you're taking might contribute to the weight gain too... we're not your doctor, so you'll need to take that into account. But anyway, there's a million reason why you're not losing your weight, just like there's a million reason why *I* am not losing weight myself, despite my calories intake and the amount of exercise I do... (and they may not necessarily be the same reason either....)

But yes, those people are telling you you have an eating disorder are VERY concerned about you and they want you to be healthy and happy. You owe it to yourself to at least get things checked out...

[sj702]

But were you talking about being afraid that someone would tell you to eat more? Were you horrified of consuming food, terrified of food in general?
I'd venture to say not but that's exactly what Lovepairs wrote... which in turn raised a warning flag in me. And trust me, I'm not easy to jump to conclusion, any conclusion especially in regards to eating habits since some would concider mine on the odd side as well.

P.S. You make it sond like 'eating disorder' is a bad word/an insult and not a valid medical condition at all... the contrary is true!

Yes I was deathly afraid to eat! Even today there are still many foods that make me quiver.
Eating, even drinking water can cause violent vomiting; pain as if someone was twisting your internal organs and stabing you with a hot sword... So yes I have been afraid to eat.
I was fed by IV, and even that would cause vomiting and burning gut pain... But to make bad into worse, I began to gain a unhealthy 8 pounds a week for absolutely no reason. I had them cut my IV time by 2/3's, but my body was still growing wider, the doctors did not know why and would not stop the IV's. I went from 100 lbs [my normal weight had been 105] up to 190 before they would stop. 190 on a 5' 2" frame is obese.
After the IV's stopped I could gain weight on air, and did... It wasn't until I did my own research and found a doctor who did the right tests and discovered other conditions that caused the weight gain as well as the other problems. Was I afraid to eat during the 'weight gain on air' period? ... YES! Not only was food causing pain but the very minimal that I was able to digest was causing me to balloon up and beyond any reasonable standards... It was frieghtening, frustrating and drove me to tears.
To this day in order to lose a pound a week I have to push myself way beyond normal limits. Two hours of vigorous exercise a day on 500 calories a day [and that IS with a Dr.'s Okay]... If I can get in 2 hr.'s of exercise, the inflamation of lupus takes it's toll on my body as well.
'Eating disorder' is not a foul word but it is the easiest diagnosis for those on the sidelines to make/assume, if I had not found the right doctor who was willing to be objective and do some real investigating I'd be still be suffering and blaming myself.
I can definately understand Lovepairs frustration and I urge her to explore ALL possibilities... Including thyroid and pituitary testing by a endocrinologist.
Lovepairs posted that she has seen doctors.... She just has not found the right one IMO. That is very hard to do these days, with HMO's and doctors over booking they just don't have the time to listen... And it is very easy to lump people into one catagory on the basis of statistics without investigating properly.
Beyond all else I thank God, for finding a doctor who understands and for figure skating because when my health took a nose dive I was at my strongest and fittest and that is helping me now as I fight in trying to regain my life.

[Kristin]

Also, I have a history with obesity. I lost 95 lbs and have kept it off for the past 14 years now. Skating is a big part of turning my life around. So, I think I'm afraid of my life going back to what it used to be, which was not healthy at all...probably over compensating.

WOW! Congratulations!!!

-Kristin

[peshu]

Loveskating, I hope you are still reading the thread even if you aren't posting anymore.

First of all, congratulations on maintaining such a large weight loss for so long, and having the courage to face the issues that led to the weight gain! I'm an ice dancer and have never done pairs, but I understand what you mean when you say you want to be the best skater you can be and that losing a few pounds will help. For me extra weight reduces my stamina, speed, and agility, and losing 5 pounds can make a difference.

Keep in mind that as we age, our metabolisms slow down. It becomes much easier to gain weight, and weight loss progresses more slowly. When you are 20 and want to lose 5 pounds for the hot date on Saturday, you can manage to do that. When you are 48 (speaking for myself), losing 5 pounds in two months would be an accomplishment. I am thrilled if I lose a pound a week. Maybe what you are experiencing is just a slower rate of weight loss than you had in the past?

From your age, I assume you are peri-menopausal, that is, in the process of achieving menopause (I find it comforting to think of it as an achievement!). In the early stages, I would get my usual pre-period bloating, etc., and it wouldn't go away even with my period. I tended to bloat even if I skipped a period. The bloating you report may be due to the hormonal storms you are experiencing, and reducing calories won't help that. I had gone 8 months without a period (had a surprise one two weeks ago!) and did not have an issue with bloating then, so I think it's something that gets better when you become menopausal. Many physicians and dieticians advocate that women in our situation add soy products to their diet, eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, and limit red meat, which I've done for years anyway.

Other posters have mentioned already that you are consuming far too few calories, and that your body is in survival mode. What is your fat intake on average? Your body needs fats in order to function properly, but many people trying to lose weight eat virtually no fat at all and they end up gaining weight and feeling draggy and sick all the time. Fish such as salmon are a good source of 'good' fat as well as protein. Be sure you are getting enough calcium and vitamin D as well; that plus your weight training will help you avoid osteoporosis. You might consider a supplement with trace minerals and B-complex vitamins as well. Metabolism isn't just about calories, it's what is in those calories as well. Your body needs many nutrients in order to function properly, and that is very hard to do on such a restricted calorie diet.

You mentioned trying calorie cycling, or generally eating more, for a two week stretch. I'm no expert, but I don't think that is enough time for your metabolism to adjust. Your body is in the habit of being in starvation mode, and two weeks isn't long enough to convince your metabolism to change it's ways. You said you were going to consult a dietician, and I encourage you to do so and stick with whatever recommendations you are given.

I find it helpful to not focus on my weight so much as my overall health. My cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure, and blood sugar are all excellent, I'm in good aerobic and muscular shape, and as long as I'm healthy and fit I'll be happy. And BTW, it is possible to lose weight while going through menopause; my gynecologist recently congratulated me for having lost eight pounds in the last year and said most women gain at least that much instead.

[VegasGirl]

Yes I was deathly afraid to eat! Even today there are still many foods that make me quiver.
Eating, even drinking water can cause violent vomiting; pain as if someone was twisting your internal organs and stabing you with a hot sword... So yes I have been afraid to eat.

Ok, I can understand that... but you have to admit that there is a difference whether you're afraid because you know what physical pain follows or whether you're simply afraid to eat because you know that you might gain weight... and again, the latter is what makes me worry in this case.

[doubletoe]

I don't know anyone who wouldn't be afraid to eat more if the last time she ate more it resulted in a weight gain of 12 pounds. I don't think it means someone has an eating disorder.

My cousin is 51 and has been going through menopause for the past 2 years. She has been experiencing exactly what you are talking about, even though she completely cut out sugar and exercises a lot. She mentioned soy products as well, but in her case, it might have been that she had to cut them out of her diet. I know soy has estrogen-like qualities, so either way, it's clearly hormone-related. It's annoying that your gyno isn't more involved in helping you with this, but there must be a specialist you can go to for help with the hormone balance. Hang in there, and let us know what you find out!

[VegasGirl]

I don't know anyone who wouldn't be afraid to eat more if the last time she ate more it resulted in a weight gain of 12 pounds.

Well, let me introduce myself... I wouldn't be afraid... frustrated, sure... puzzled, certainly... annoyed, you betcha... but absolutely not afraid. What's there to be afraid off?

I don't think it means someone has an eating disorder.

Oh yeah, tell that to the many anorexic and bulimic women out there. Sure, it doesn't necessarily mean that someone suffers from a medically recognized eating disorder but as was said before it does mean that they suffer from "disordered eating"... both require 'treatment', the former certainly more urgently then the latter.

[crayonskater]

My $0.02:

First off, congrats on the weight loss achieved. That's a true accomplishment!

Second, 5'6'' and 142 with 21% bodyfat is a healthy size for nearly any woman, let alone one approaching menopause! (You'd be okay 12 pounds heavier, too.) I'd pitch the scale and judge by a favorite pair of jeans or hott skirt; working out may cause you to gain muscle and weight as a result, but if it doesn't change your size, you're probably okay.

Still, you want to lose ten pounds. You seem to be consuming very few calories, and at this point in your life, it might not be bad to consult with a dietitian or nutritionist. If you're eating too little, your body will conserve whatever it gets, leaving you tired, weak, and not losing weight. A nutritionist can help you achieve your goals safely. Being 130 pounds won't be great if it means you fracture a bone on a lift due to osteoporeosis.

Personally, I'm inclined to tell your pairs partner to start lifting weights, as chances are he can gain ten pounds of lifting strength more easily and more safely than you can lose the weight.

[VegasGirl]

Personally, I'm inclined to tell your pairs partner to start lifting weights, as chances are he can gain ten pounds of lifting strength more easily and more safely than you can lose the weight.

Very, very, veeery good advice!!!

[pairman2]

OK, time to mention a few things
Many of the comments to lovepairs have been very constructive. However, I think the overall tone was misconstrued at times. Her situation is not a panic. Basically it is about tweaking a stable situation and even moreso about quality of life, as much off ice as it is on ice. Her weight has been stable for most of the past year. She is taking some of the advise and has contacted a sports nutricianist. She is not anorexic and has a genuine metabolic disorder that has totally confounded many doctors to date. She has tried more food and less food to try and find what works best.

As for the mechanics of pairs. What most non-pairs people don't realize is that lift are not a strength issue. Overall conditioning is important, but it accounts for at most 25% of the lift. In fact, here is how it really breaks down: 25% mans strength, 25% ladies strength, 35% technique employed by both partners and 15% timing (a function of technique) by both partners.

Lovepairs and I are now doing comfortable and consistent overheads on ice. Her weight has not been an issue at all in the pairs elements we have done this past season. Five pounds less would create a better 'margin' of do-ability but I am not pressing her for it and I don't see her knocking herself out to get it in any way greater then the difficult restrictions that she has had to live with so far for many years.

FYI, I do lift weights myself. We both do. There's actually a cap on muscle mass that I'm allowed to build for pairs. Speed, flexibility and technique are dampered by excess muscle mass.

Due to the current trend, most exemplified by the Chinese teams, pairs often seems to be conceptualized as Atlas throwing around an emaciated little bird. In fact the Chinese ladies may very well be dangerously under nourished. Historically, pair partnerships were not nearly this drastic. Lovepairs indeed mentioned an alternatice model. Anyone who has ever has the priveledge to meet an elite pairs lady in person will notice that they are a package of total 100% taunt muscle.

Pairs is about 2 equally strong people, both with well managed weight. Technique is paramount and it is all tied together with synchronization, timing and instinctively knowing each other's smallest cues.

Pairman2

[lovepairs]

Personally, I'm inclined to tell your pairs partner to start lifting weights, as chances are he can gain ten pounds of lifting strength more easily and more safely than you can lose the weight.

Vegas and Crayon,

Back off Pairsman2. He's in perfect shape, incredibly muscular, and could lift anyone of you, easily! This is my problem and not his! By the way, I just contacted a nutritionist in my area and was flipped off by her just like the rest of the docotors I've been to, which is why I came to the forum...to ask other woman if they had the same struggle, and what they might have done about it. The suggestion to read Nancy Clark's "Sports Nutrition Guidbook" was great, and thank you...I've been reading it and it is very helpful. I didn't come on this thread to be diagnosed with an eating disorder, or told that I shouldn't skate pairs. When this thread started to be come a "cat fight" I got off of it. Now I'm asking Pairsman2 to get off the thread with me, because it's not helpful anymore.

Thank you to all of the other skaters who tried to help me without passing judgement. Sincerely appreciated...lovepairs

[flo]

Not to scare anyone, but something all females need to be aware of. Also I'm in oncology research and don't want to see anyone have to enroll in one of my studies. Everyone experiencing unusual and consistient bloating - be sure to mention this to your GYN, and look at the other symptoms for ovarian cancer.

Contact your MD if you develop one or more of these symptoms and they persist for 2-3 weeks:

-Abdominal Swelling/Bloating/Clothes Too Tight
-Abdominal/Pelvic Pain or Pressure or Feeling "Full"
-Gastrointestinal Symptoms (such as gas, indigestion, nausea, or changes in bowel movements)
-Vaginal Bleeding or Discharge
-Urinary Problems - Urgency, Burning, or Spasms
-Fatigue and/or Fever
-Pain During Intercourse
-Back Pain
-Difficulty Breathing

[Careygram]

Okay, so I am a Registered Dietitian and I've read the thread and gotten the gist of it. Here is what I think: In the course of my schooling, we studied individuals who had significantly lower metabolisms than the other 98% of the population. We studied specifically a woman who only required 600 calories a day to maintain a healthy weight and not become grossly overweight. She took vitamin supplements as she could in no way support her body's vitamin and mineral requirements on that little food. It sounds like a disorder or diagnosis but the plain fact is, metabolisms vary and there are extremes. Love Pairs, I know how active you are. The only thing I can really speak to that has helped me (I have a sluggish metabolism but nowhere near as slow as yours) was how INTENSE my activity was. I was running 3-4 days per week and lifting weights and watching what I ate and I kind of leveled off a little higher than I liked. SO, I increased my running time to 40 and upped my speed. It helped A LOT. I would also say that as I've gotten older, it's become more of an effort to maintain/lose. Here's my thought--call me and we'll talk about your work out routines and see where we can up the intensity without requiring more time. Also, I can lend suggestions for foods that are not calorie dense but provide fullness and satisfaction. It may work, it may not but so far given all the professionals you've seen, it may be worth a try.

Kisses to you and Pairman2,
Careygray.

[Mrs Redboots]

Just found this thread on my return from post-Mountain-Cup holiday.

I put on a lot of weight during the menopause, but now it's over, I've been able to lose it all again, and then some. I'll never have the figure I had when I was 20, but I'm back at a healthy weight for my height and hope to stay that way.

So those of you who are going through Those Years, don't despair!

[Joan]

This is quite technical - but basically it says that a consistent long-term low calorie diet plus exercise leads to lowering of a thyroid hormone T3 that regulates body energy metabolism. The combination of calorie restriction and exercise also has beneficial anti-aging effects .

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-05/wuso-cra053106.php

[NickiT]

Gosh....they call 1800 calories a day restricted. I've been on under 1400 since January without losing anything. Was advised to go up to 1800 but I gained and freaked out so am back on 1400 again now. As for the average being around 2000+ per day. I'd be built like a house now if I ate that much! I've never eaten much more than 1600 even when not dieting.

Nicki

[Joan]

Gosh....they call 1800 calories a day restricted. I've been on under 1400 since January without losing anything. Was advised to go up to 1800 but I gained and freaked out so am back on 1400 again now. As for the average being around 2000+ per day. I'd be built like a house now if I ate that much! I've never eaten much more than 1600 even when not dieting.

Nicki

The study no doubt adjusted calorie intake to height, gender, etc., so that 1800 is the average, but some in the study would be eating less and others, more. Also, these people don't lose weight, at least after an initial period. The metabolic changes accompanying this level of calorie restriction lead to maintenance of weight at a certain set-point that is different for each person.

[Tinkerbell]

but at 17, 5'7 and weighing 138 i'm probably too heavy to be a pairs scater but I really don't care because i know I could never be 100. I mean, I'm a size 4 so i really don't feel like i've even got much weight to lose.


Holy crap!
This is off topic but how are you 5'7" and 138 pounds and wearing a size 4?? That's not to criticize. I'm the same height and relatively the same weight and the tiniest pants size I can possibly SQUEEZE myself into is a 7. You must be 90% muscle. I know I'm sure not--perhaps that's the issue.

Congrats. :bow:

[coskater64]

Well, I recently had some tests done and the results were interesting. I have gained about 15 lbs over the past 3 years and want another 10 so I can end up at 5'9" and about 135. While gaining this weight I have changed my metabolism, it was 1700 3 years ago and know it is 2300 and that doesn't included what I need to skate. The doctors have told me to shot for 3200-3500 calories a day in order to gain weight originally I just aimed for 2800-3000 calories a day so it would seem by eating more and continuing a good exercise regime I've helped myself out, my body fat is around 17% which is in the normal range. For those who don't know me it is important to realize I am an ectomorph body type, very long, very lanky and very slight.

[NickiT]

Well, another week of weighing and measuring everything and eating 1400 calories a day, and another pound on. I just don't know what to do now. I eat only healthy foods with plenty of fruit and veg. Yesterday was a bagel for breakfast (unusual as I usually eat porridge and berries), a salad for lunch and a salad for dinner with fruit snacks. I am immensely frustrated as my weight just keeps going up and up despite my best efforts.

Nicki

[Mrs Redboots]

Well, another week of weighing and measuring everything and eating 1400 calories a day, and another pound on. I just don't know what to do now. I eat only healthy foods with plenty of fruit and veg. Yesterday was a bagel for breakfast (unusual as I usually eat porridge and berries), a salad for lunch and a salad for dinner with fruit snacks. I am immensely frustrated as my weight just keeps going up and up despite my best efforts.

But how are your clothes fitting? You're taking a lot of exercise right now in the build-up to Bracknell (aren't we all!) and you're probably building muscle, which takes up less room than fat, but can mask, or even negate, any weight loss. Don't forget that to gain 1lb of fat, you'd have had to have taken in 3,500 more calories than you burnt, and I don't suppose for one second that you did that.

If you come to the Streatham Open I will introduce you to a friend of mine who, at her own request, was given a rowing-machine a couple of years ago. She used it regularly for a couple of months, and within six weeks she had put on half a stone - but her trousers nearly fell off when she stood up! We were like, "Haven't you got a belt?!"

For skaters, and other athletes, the scales only tell half the story - the rest of it is in our measurements and the way our clothes fit (which is how someone can be 5'7", 138 lbs and wear a size 4 - I expect she is very muscular!).

And anyway, Nicki, unless you've changed dramatically since I last saw you, you are so not overweight!

[NickiT]

But how are your clothes fitting? You're taking a lot of exercise right now in the build-up to Bracknell (aren't we all!) and you're probably building muscle, which takes up less room than fat, but can mask, or even negate, any weight loss. Don't forget that to gain 1lb of fat, you'd have had to have taken in 3,500 more calories than you burnt, and I don't suppose for one second that you did that.

If you come to the Streatham Open I will introduce you to a friend of mine who, at her own request, was given a rowing-machine a couple of years ago. She used it regularly for a couple of months, and within six weeks she had put on half a stone - but her trousers nearly fell off when she stood up! We were like, "Haven't you got a belt?!"

For skaters, and other athletes, the scales only tell half the story - the rest of it is in our measurements and the way our clothes fit (which is how someone can be 5'7", 138 lbs and wear a size 4 - I expect she is very muscular!).

And anyway, Nicki, unless you've changed dramatically since I last saw you, you are so not overweight!

I know about the muscle taking up less space than fat rule etc, and that in theory even if I gain weight I could be building muscle, but I'm not. I've been regularly taking measurments of all my crucial statistics and there's no change. All I know is that my summer clothes are tighter than last year and some don't fit at all. I don't understand where I'm going wrong. I skate 4-5 times a week and do 3 lots of weight training a week. With eating a healthy low fat diet of around 1400 calories I would hope to see some sort of loss but I'm not. I'm easily half a stone heavier than I was this time last year. Explain that when I've been watching what I eat all this time! For the first time ever I'm classified as being overweight according to my BMI. So frustrating.

Nicki

[Mrs Redboots]

Very frustrating! Are you keeping a food journal - writing down absolutely everything that goes into your mouth, at the time that it goes in there? I found that was probably the one thing that helped more than anything, because I knew I had an accurate record of everything I ate. Otherwise I was all too apt to "forget" the mid-afternoon ice-cream, or the extra sandwich in the middle of the night.... And although I'm quite sure you don't do that, at least with a food journal you can see what you are looking at!

I wonder whether, had I kept one all those years while I was going through the change of life, I would have put on quite so much weight? Oh well, we'll never know!

[NickiT]

Very frustrating! Are you keeping a food journal - writing down absolutely everything that goes into your mouth, at the time that it goes in there? I found that was probably the one thing that helped more than anything, because I knew I had an accurate record of everything I ate. Otherwise I was all too apt to "forget" the mid-afternoon ice-cream, or the extra sandwich in the middle of the night.... And although I'm quite sure you don't do that, at least with a food journal you can see what you are looking at!

I wonder whether, had I kept one all those years while I was going through the change of life, I would have put on quite so much weight? Oh well, we'll never know!

Yep I record EVERYTHING that passes my lips on Sparkpeople.com. It's a fantastic site which calculates how much you need to eat, exercise etc. I record everything. Drives my husband mad if he's serving up dinner, as I HAVE to weigh everything that goes on my plate. I'm just seeking advice from one of the specialists on the site. She seems to think my problem is that I've skated for so long now that my body has become efficient and I'm probably not burning as many calories as a result. Looks like I'm going to just have to suffer the pain in my hip and run, because I can't see any other cheap alternatives. I can't afford to go to the gym as skating isn't cheap, as you know. I just feel that I've been so good for so long, I don't have a big problem with my willpower, but it would be nice to see some sort of positive result. If I ate junk, drunk alcohol and so on then I'd understand, but I'm eating mega healthily now.

Nicki

[vesperholly]

I skate 4-5 times a week and do 3 lots of weight training a week.
Are you doing any aerobic exercise? Skating can be very anaerobic unless you're moving ALL the time. I know I certainly don't - start, stop, start, stop, spin, water, jump, adjust hair ties, etc. As soon as I tack on two or three times of aerobics (I like the elliptical), my weight starts to go down.

Another thought - could you be eating too little and forcing yourself into starvation mode? Maybe the initial gain when you went up in calories the last time was just your body sorting itself out.

[NickiT]

Are you doing any aerobic exercise? Skating can be very anaerobic unless you're moving ALL the time. I know I certainly don't - start, stop, start, stop, spin, water, jump, adjust hair ties, etc. As soon as I tack on two or three times of aerobics (I like the elliptical), my weight starts to go down.

Another thought - could you be eating too little and forcing yourself into starvation mode? Maybe the initial gain when you went up in calories the last time was just your body sorting itself out.

I agree that skating is a bit of a start/stop sort of sport and maybe this is my poblem. It looks like I'm going to have to add in a couple of gym sessions a week or go running. I've always been wary of running because of my hip problem and the fact that the last run I did killed my hip for a over a week afterwards!

As for how many calories to consume, I simply don't know. I've been given so much advice I just don't know which to take! It could well be true I've been eating too little and it's probably to be expected that increasing my intake would cause a slight gain in the beginnning, but I'm just too scared, because the weight goes on so easily yet it won't come back off.

Nicki

[sk8pics]

Niki,
I agree, weight loss/maintenance or even gaining can be very frustrating. I wonder, though, if you are eating so carefully, exercising, but as you say gaining weight or find your clothes don't fit, if there is something else going on? For instance, have you started taking any new medications? Or resumed a prior medication? Are you drinking enough water? Have you seen your doctor to make sure there's nothing else wrong?

The other thing that struck me at first glance when you posted about what you ate the other day was that there was no obvious protein in what you listed. Plus, it's possible that 1400 calories might not be enough and therefore your body is in starvation mode, as others have suggested. I don't know. Assuming there is no medical issue, my advice (for what's worth, LOL) is to pick a nutritionist and work with just one person and don't listen to the rest of us. Oh, and yes, skating is anaerobic not aerobic and you will need some aerobic exercise as well in order to lose weight (all things being equal).

Good luck!

[skateflo]

NickiT - just a few other thoughts - fruit has a lot of sugar and there is something to be said about the types of sugars and how the body handles them. We had a skater who was trying to eat/drink more healthfully and fell in love with fruit juice. The pounds quickly added up.

Speed/power walking is an alternative to running and much less stress on the joints. I did it after my gallbladder surgery and in the middle of menopause. Just worked up to 1/2 mile up the road and back - took less than 30 minutes, but within several weeks I felt so much better, less bloating, my waist was beginning to shrink. Bending/pumping the arms like a boxer really helped too.

And remember that laundering/heat drying does shrink many clothes over time. Yea, my summer clothes from last year are too snug this year but I did put on weight - all from my waist to my knees - but that distribution is hereditary and I have been off the ice for almost 7 months with 2 herniated discs. But seriously, think about how a dryer shrinks your jeans up into your privates and raises the hem.

Lastly, some of us do better with grazing rather than sitting down to full 3 meals. But I have learned over time that I need meat at least once a week for the protein. I know vegetarians manage with alternatives, but some of them only seem to 'manage.'

Calories is only part of the picture. How your body utilizes your fuel may not be how others manage theirs. And stress increases your cortisol level and preferentially may add to your abdominal fat pad. Skating, while very helpful, is not usually a sustained activity - like others said, a lot of start/stop, 2-3 minutes for a program, stop again.....

I look at Sarah Hughes at her olympics and then on tour in SOI when she put on a lot of weight and preferentially in the hips and thighs. She went from intense daily training to skating daily in shows. Just goes to show what a body gets used to and how it can change even with daily exercise.

[lovepairs]

Hi everyone,

I'm the person who started this thread. I am greatful for all of your advice. I took it all in and made some changes, but I didn't want to come back on the thread until I had something to report.

First of all, I'm totally indebted to Skateflo for recommending that I read Nancy Clark's "Sports Nutrition." I am reading it over again for the second time, and this book has literally saved my life!

Here's what happened. I started to eat again. According to her book for my height and age, I should be taking in 1500 calories on the days I don't excersize at all, which is two now. 1700 calories on the days when I just skate and hour bymyself and do 1/2 hour off ice, or lift weights. And 1900 calories when I skate with Pairsman2, which is two days with two hours on ice and about 1/2 hour off ice. There was a very interesting mathematical formula to figure this out. Still very mindful to eat a well-balanced diet (no processed foods still, no soda for me just water) but, just a little bit more of it.

Here are my results: since I last posted I have raised my calorie intake from about 800-900 per day to a little over 1200. I've been tracking my calories and fat content on a really good program that came with my Microsoft Office Suite. No matter how much I try and it doesn't matter what type of excersise day it is, I can't (atleast not right now) seem to eat more than 1200. But I'm here to report that I FEEL SOOOOO MUCH BETTER. Yes, I gained a few pounds in the process of turning this around, but it was really really worth it, and I'm just beginning to see a little weight loose, too. No more irradic swings in my weight. Everything feels very stable, I can think clearly throughout the entire day, and I have a lot more energy when I skate. Pairsman2 has noticed the difference in my general well being, and he is still able to lift me, so we are both happy right now.

I will continue on this path and will report my progress periodically. This is way better than starving yourself to death...thank you everyone!

Oh, while I was reading this book, I was also looking for a sports nutritionist in my area and come up dry. So, I went to the U of D Sports Science Center For Figure Skating, and to my total shock I found out that they don't have any type of nutritionist at all on staff. I thought how are these kid skaters suppossed to understand how to eat for skating. I brought this up with someone who happened to be a kid skater, but now in college and studying nutrition. I told her that I couldn't believe U of D didn't have a nutritionist in the Science Center...she told me that there is a huge Bullemic scene at U of D among the skating girls. She knew because she was part of it, but now recovering. I'm posting this just incase any skating moms read this thread, and wish to take a closer look at exactly what their skating daughters and sons are actually doing to keep their weight off. Very scary stuff.

[phoenix]

lovepairs, that is awesome!! Thanks for the report on your progress. :D I think I'm going to buy that book too, because I'd like to lose at least 10 pounds, & no diet plan I've found takes into account that you might be an athlete in serious training mode, and what that might mean for how you should be eating.

[lovepairs]

Exactly, Pheonix, that was the missing link. How to loose weight, while eating correctly, while continuing to train--it is a nutritional balancing act! Nothing else that I've read or tried, put it together for me in this way. It's so interesting, because I'm feeling the change!

I got the book off of Amazon.com

If you get it and read it, let me know your thoughts.

[Mrs Redboots]

Lovepairs, I'm so pleased to hear it.

I think that many of us skaters do need to think in terms of sports nutrition, although many/most sports nutrition guides are aimed at endurance sports, such as cycling or running, which, of course, ours isn't. Nevertheless, many of us train for over 90 minutes a day on training days, and there's a lot to be said for eating low GI carbohydrates before our training, and maybe some high GI carbohydrate in our post-skating snack. And for those who do off-ice training in the gym as well, this is probably even more important.

[Mrs Redboots]

Yep I record EVERYTHING that passes my lips on Sparkpeople.com. It's a fantastic site which calculates how much you need to eat, exercise etc.
Oh dear, I just logged on to there, pretending I wanted to lose 1kg by the end of the year - that's 2lbs (as it happens, I'm actually happy at my present weight). And they recommended I eat 1380 Calories per day. Errr? According to the Harris-Benedict equations for determining calorie needs (http://www.weightlossforall.com/calorie-requirements-daily.htm), which are what are used by most authorities, a woman of my age, height, weight and activity level needs around 1960 Calories a day just to maintain her weight. And to lose 1lb a week, one only needs to drop 500 Calories from that total, so 1460 would be a lot more like it! Plus upping my exercise a bit.... I'd be at my goal in two weeks, not six months!

Nicki, I wonder if you have been eating too little for too long, so that your body has gone into starvation mode, where you burn muscle and store fat? The trouble is, if you then started eating more you would put on weight as your body would want to store up fat against another famine. I think you might do well to consult a nutritionist at this stage....

[skateflo]

lovepairs,

I was thrilled to read your update - and to know that you found Nancy's book so helpful! As I originally posted, she used to write a column for the now defunct Tracings magazine. I photocopied all her columns and put them in a file folder. But of course some things have changed over the years.

The USFS is missing the boat by not having a nutrition column in their magazine. I have to wonder just how well attended their various seminars are at competitions but then they are for parents of skaters (:

Keep up the good work and let us know how you are doing. Remember, as in skating on the ice, off-ice activities (conditioning, dieting, etc.) have their plateaus also. The internet has been a great help to all of us. Sharing information, sifting out and finding the pearls, has opened many doors.

Have a happy, healthy, skating life!!

[NickiT]

Oh dear, I just logged on to there, pretending I wanted to lose 1kg by the end of the year - that's 2lbs (as it happens, I'm actually happy at my present weight). And they recommended I eat 1380 Calories per day. Errr? According to the Harris-Benedict equations for determining calorie needs (http://www.weightlossforall.com/calorie-requirements-daily.htm), which are what are used by most authorities, a woman of my age, height, weight and activity level needs around 1960 Calories a day just to maintain her weight. And to lose 1lb a week, one only needs to drop 500 Calories from that total, so 1460 would be a lot more like it! Plus upping my exercise a bit.... I'd be at my goal in two weeks, not six months!

Nicki, I wonder if you have been eating too little for too long, so that your body has gone into starvation mode, where you burn muscle and store fat? The trouble is, if you then started eating more you would put on weight as your body would want to store up fat against another famine. I think you might do well to consult a nutritionist at this stage....

Well it was recently suggested to me that I should be eating many more calories per day by a fitness instructor. He'd worked out that I need to eat 1800 calories to lose but I wasn't happy at eating so much after eating low calorie for so long, so he set me up with this calorie cycling regime where I went 1800 for a week, then 1700 and so on down to 1400 and then back up to 1700. I guess I didn't see an instant result and in fact gained and it scared me. The spark people site takes all my skating into account and says I should eat between 1200 and 1550 calories per day.

I actually have the Sports Nutrition book (my thoughtful hubby gave it to me for my last birthday) and the calculation in there reckons I need around 1700 to lose. It's just so scary going up to that amount. When I did WW I was on 18 points which I worked out roughly as under 1200 cals. Now I'm on between 1400 and 1500 a day. I think in the long term I should eat more. I just stalled because of the Opens and the thought of looking like a hippo on ice!

Nicki

[Skate@Delaware]

I have fought my weight for as long as I can remember. I don't ever recall getting good dietary advice from my parents. When I started skating, one of the coaches, who happened to have a B.S. in Sports Science taught us a bit about nutrition for athletes. Called us athletes! imagine that!

So, getting good information is vital! And, we need to think of ourselves as athletes in every sense because of what we do!

[Mrs Redboots]

I think in the long term I should eat more. I just stalled because of the Opens and the thought of looking like a hippo on ice!You won't look like a hippo on ice, Nicki! Even at my fattest (and yes, I probably did look like a hippo on ice!), I certainly wasn't the fattest skater I know.... and a lot of them are a heck of a lot better than me, too.

I think you should listen to your fitness instructor, to be honest. Let's get Bracknell over and done with and then you have the summer to experiment before the British and, arguably, the Streatham Open.

[dooobedooo]

There is an interesting article in the Times today, not about "ice gazelles", but about sand gazelles, and how their bodies adapt by reducing metabolic rate when food and water is in short supply.

It does seem to support the theory, that the trick to weight reduction is to eat slightly fewer calories, while maintaining a high metabolic rate and large heart/muscle system. ie.through eating a balanced diet including protein and low-calorie bulky foods (cabbage etc) and taking aerobic exercise.

Here's the link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2219024.html


Text of article:

The Times June 10, 2006
Desert gazelles have a heart for beating thirst
By Lewis Smith

Sand gazelles have been found to thrive in droughts because they shrink their hearts. Zoologists have discovered that while other animals die of thirst in the Arabian deserts, the gazelles reduce water lost through evaporation by slowing their metabolisms.

Their hearts and livers shrink significantly, which decreases the demand for oxygen and slows the rate of breathing, one of the biggest causes of water loss in desert creatures. The sizes of other organs, including the stomach, remain much the same. A study by the National Wildlife Research Centre of Saudi Arabia, published in Physiological and Biochemical Zoology, also found that the gazelles store fat in their brains, apparently to ensure that the brains have extra food during shortages.

[crayonskater]

Vegas and Crayon,

Back off Pairsman2. He's in perfect shape, incredibly muscular, and could lift anyone of you, easily! This is my problem and not his!

Um, it was hardly meant as an attack on Pairsman2.

It was meant as seeing someone, at a healthy weight and body composition, eating only 800 calories a day, tired and unable to concentrate, trying to lose the last 10 pounds after an impressive weight loss, and musing that if the only reason to lose those pounds was for a pairs partner, that, yes, seriously, it is in general easier for men to increase their deadlift capacity by ten pounds more than for a woman of normal weight to diet and keep off ten pounds. Since you indicated that your primary reason to lose weight was your pairs skating, it seemed wise to consider other ways to get you in the air.

That's all. Not an attack. Glad to hear that the new diet is helping you feel better.

[lovepairs]

Well, the thing you're missing here is that in a pairs lift it is not only the man who has to support the womans weight, but the woman also has to support her own weight while in the lift. No where on these threads did I ever say that I wanted to loose the weight for his sake. I said I wanted to loose the weight for myself and for our team, which is a very different thing then wanting to loose weight for him. It was much easier to support my own weight 10 lbs lighter. Like I said, it is not his issue, he lifted me all the way to 157 during the middle of this past year and didn't complain about it once. In fact, I'm the best set of weights he's got and the heavier I get the stronger he becomes, so he never complained. The reason why I gained 15 lbs this past year was, because he was encouraging me to start eating, again. He is in perfect shape both in terms of strength and muscle tone.

I'm fine now...if you read the previous threads you will understand how this all came about and how we worked through it. Please let's not dredge this one up, again, because it made me feel really bad that the critique was turned on him when it was my problem to begin with and I was the one posting the thread seeking some help.

Thank you for understanding.

Lovepairs

[2salch0w]

Hi everyone - I'm really late to this thread but found it very interesting. First, it's tough on these boards to provide advice when you don't actually know the people involved. So it is natural to speculate and wonder/worry that a person may have an eating disorder, or maybe the problem is really with the guy being too slight, etc. So I think phrasing becomes really important ("Is it possible your partner needs to gain some weight?"), and also giving the benefit of the doubt ("Actually, no, but thanks for asking.") :)

Knowing LP and the enormity that is PM2 myself, I can assure everyone that they have a good grasp on what is going on with this. For her, she is quite healthy (and nice on the eyes, I might add) where she is right now. But for pairs skating it'd be better for her to be about 7 pounds lighter. That wouldn't make her too skinny, or weak, as it has already been pointed out would just be counterproductive. It is just the difference between "healthy weight" and "fighting weight".

PM probably couldn't get any bigger, and I'd be personally scared if he did.

The thing with pairs is that the weight of both partners is an important part of the equation. Working on your weight (to acheive that healthy "fighting" weight) is akin to doing yoga off-ice to help your spiral positions, or cardio to help your stamina in programs. It's something you can do to improve your ability to perform lifts, throws and death spirals (particularly), in addition to working on the technique of those elements. And as LP has said, it is only part of it.

In my current pairs situation we have a good weight ratio, but it could be improved a bit. I've insisted that my partner not lose any more weight, as she's already at the perfect pairs weight for her, if not a pound or two under. So it's on me to gain a few pounds, and I'm trying. I'm not obsessed with it, I'm not going to take steroids, and if I can't gain it isn't the end of the world. But it will help our elements and could make the difference some day in whether we can perform certain moves.

The pairs thing may be hard to understand if you haven't done it. Not to say that there aren't teams that get in a bad way w/ the whole weight thing, either, so it is something to watch out for.

Tim

[lovepairs]

Hi Sal,

You are too sweet, thank you for the compliment! ;)

You are right about Hercules. If he put on anymore muscle he wouldn't be as agile for the "quickness" required in the lifting technique. Not that I want him to stop lifting for cross-training, but, often our coaches have been trying to get him to lift me with good technique rather than by brutt strength. In fact, our coach, Evgeiny, has gone so far as to say a certain amount of leithness (is that a word--well you know what I mean) is really better for good lifting technique than being totally muscle bound.

Well, I'm really sticking to the plan here with beginning to eat, again, and as predicted I am putting on some weight while trying to rebuild my metabolism. It's not an extrodinary amount of weight, and much more stable than the weight swings I was having while in the starvation mode. I'm just trying to give it time, hang in there, and not panic. So, I need to loose really about 12 lbs to make the "fighting weight" at this point. That was a very good way to put it. Thank you for understanding how "pairs" fits into this whole thing. So, it helps right now to hear that you don't exactly think I'm an eye-sore! LOL!!! Here's the thing: yes, if I didn't have a passion for skating pairs, I'd be quite the perfect weight as I am for my height and age. However, I really love to skate pairs, so I have to balance this out and figure out how to get that little bit of extra weight off in a healthy way, because it really would make a difference in both of our lifting ability and safety. We've just started doing full over-head lifts on the ice, so I want him to have a little less weight up there to manage, which, of course, errors on the side of safety...you know what I mean.

Two things about Nancy Clarks "Sports Nutrition" (thank you, again, SkateFlo for recommending this book!)

Not only does she cover how to maintain, and loose weight, in a healthy way as an athlete, she also has extensive coverage about how to gain weight in a healthy and nutritional way. Very, very interesting. Her book can be purched on Amazon.com.

For the first time she had a description of my delema. It was the first time I came across this in all of my readings about nutrition and weight management. She described what I has as "disorganized eating." It is characterised by the athlete young, or old trying to loose weight. This person gradually starts eliminating food from his/her diet, thinking that the less taken in the more weight will be lost. As foods become eliminated this person lapses into linear eating with just a few foods left that they feel safe with, and it goes something like this: egg, egg, egg, egg, orange, orange, orange, orange, coffee, coffee, coffee, carrot, carrot, carrot, carrot, ect...see what I mean. Even though it look organzied, it is really "disorganized," because your eliminating nutritional value, by limiting variety and food groups, thus eliminating essential nutrients, not getting what your body needs, and totally shutting down your metabolism. At the time I posted this thread asking for help, my body was in "hibrination," and I really thought I was going to die.

This is a very different syndrom from Anorexia, or Bullemia, which are grouped under the heading of "eating disorders." So, anytime, any one would say that I had an "eating disorder" I knew that I wasn't going to get the help I needed because the problem was being miss defined. In other words, I wasn't binging and purging, and I didn't have an aversion to eating and I wasn't wasting away. I wanted to keep eating, but I got myself into this corner, and forgot how. In fact the weird thing was that I was beginning to think: Why are the anorexics successful in loosing weight (wasting away), but that I couldn't even do that as I was gaining the less I ate. Something else was going on, wrong, and undefined, but I think I have a way to think about it now as "disorganized eating," which gives me a way to deal with it. So, I'm organizing now, getting all food groups in, putting an emphasis on variety (as oppossed to rut/linear eating), keeping a mindful eye on the calorie intake and fat intake without becoming obsessive. It's hard work, and I have a long way to go with this process. It's scary and I'm gaining a little in the process, as I said, but I'm trying to hold on, because it's the first time in a long time that I actually feel healthy! With in about three days of turning this around I noticed the difference--it was pretty amazing.

I hope this helps others out there who are skating and struggling with this issue.

Best,
Lovepairs

By the way Sal, your not too bad on the eyes either! Don't tell Hercules I said, so! :halo: ;) 8-) :D

[crayonskater]

A site that I've found helpful is www.stumptous.com. It's a site mostly dedicated to women & strength training, but the author of the site is a competitive bodybuilder who often diets down to 12% bodyfat for short periods of time. She also helps as a personal trainer for women who need to get down to a certain weight (like boxers who must be in a certain fight class.)

I've found the site to be a reliable source on nutrition, ways to gain strength and flexibility, and even better, the site author, Krista, will respond to e-mails with careful answers. (I'm working on squats to develop leg strength and balance for a sit spin.) There are also many diet/maintenance plans on the site, as well as beginner lifting programs.

Building muscle mass might not be a bad idea. You might gain a few pounds in the short run, but muscles burn more calories just idling than fat and other tissue does, so in the long run, you'll be in better shape. Plus, you'll be stronger which will help with pairs.

[Mrs Redboots]

I think your definition of "disorganised eating" is great, and really helps to explain what goes on with so many of us who try to lose weight. That's one reason why I found a food journal was what worked for me - I could see whether I'd eaten well-balanced meals that day, and could see exactly what I was eating, and not fool myself.....

I think "fighting weight" is a great way of putting it! I think I'd probably need to drop a little more to get to a seriously good "fighting weight", but probably both Husband and I building muscle would be a better idea.

[Skate@Delaware]

I had a good scare recently with my weight....until my trainer put it all in perspective. I had GAINED 3 pounds while i've been trying to lose 3-5 pounds...and although my clothes don't fit any different i couldn't figure out what was going on.

He brought my attention to the fact that my workouts are harder and more intense and i have gained MUSCLE. It took me a while to stop hopping on the scale and freaking out. I do see more definition in my legs so i think some fat is leaving. It was just freaky.

[lovepairs]

Thanks for the link, Crayon. I'll take a look at it. Both my pairs partner and I have a pretty consistent off-ice weight lifting regiment. I worked with a personal trainer for lifting for an entire year--so, I have that down. I'd go back to work with him, again, if it weren't for the $$$. So, I'm on my own with the weights for now, but I have an awesome Nautilus facility at a near by college that I use! Thanks for the suggestion, though!

[crayonskater]

I had a good scare recently with my weight....until my trainer put it all in perspective. I had GAINED 3 pounds while i've been trying to lose 3-5 pounds...and although my clothes don't fit any different i couldn't figure out what was going on.

He brought my attention to the fact that my workouts are harder and more intense and i have gained MUSCLE. It took me a while to stop hopping on the scale and freaking out. I do see more definition in my legs so i think some fat is leaving. It was just freaky.

Oh, I had a freakout like that. I was medium-sized (5'5'', 125) after the skating rink closed and I started to add some weightlifting back into my routine. Skating is fun, but I wasn't feeling like I was getting a good workout. So I started weight-training and now I'm seven pounds heavier. I'm not a dieter, or even a scale-owner, but I was freaking out a bit.

[lovepairs]

Hi Redboots,

Which food journal do you use? I found an Xcel program in my Microsoft Suite (you know in the Project Gallery) that actually tracks calories and fat grams and % and then adds everything up for you. It's a really easy way to keep a mindful eye upon what I'm doing. What do you use?

[phoenix]

Okay, I'm getting confused.

According to Sparkpeople.com, I should be eating between 1600-1900 calories to lose weight. According to the website Mrs. Redboots posted, I should be eating about 2200!!

I used Sparkpeople to track my calories for about 2 weeks, and kind of just ate normal--not dieting, but not going whole hog either, and found out that I tend to eat between 1800-1900 just on my own. Well, I'm definitely not losing weight on that regimen! In fact, according to the English site (which did indeed take a lot more into account for the figuring), I'm not eating near enough!

I've always LOVED food & would gladly eat my weight in chocolate chip cookies given the chance, so I can't believe that I'm not eating enough, but that's what the chart is telling me. I think I'd have to really try to eat 2200 calories, (more cheesecake!!), but I'm sure I'd gain weight....wouldn't I? I've been reading about how if you don't eat enough your metabolism slows.....but I'm certainly eating plenty now......but not losing weight, even though both charts agree I'm certainly not overeating & should be losing weight. I'm confused.....:?: :?:

[lovepairs]

Nancy Clarks book "Sports Nutrition" Guidebook, pg. 221

Estimate your resting metabolic rate, which means the total calorie intake you need just to servive and breath without doing any activity: multipy your healthy targeted weight by 10 caleries per pound.

Next add more calories to the above number: add 60-80% of the above number to that number if you are very active throughout the day (like a construction worker), add 50% if you are moderately active (like a job where you have to run around the office, or a mom running after kids and going here and there on errands,) if you are sedentary add only 20-40% on to your resting metabolic rate number.

Then add more calories for purposful excersize. You need to google an excersize chart that has activities and how many calories you burn in how many minutes. Since they never have ice skating on these charts go by either aerobic dance or ballroom dance (fast), or something else that is close to what we do on the ice. Figure out how many calories that you burn only on your excersize days, and add it onto the figure that your reached above. On days you don't excersize, add nothing to the above figure.

Now, to loose weight, subtract 20% of your total calories need. On days that you do skate you will need more calories, on days that you don't skate you will need fewer calories to loose.

Doesn't this make sense? Because most diets or eating plans have you the same calories per day no matter what you are doing. This is where quidelines specificly tailored to the athlete makes more sense. Hope this helps! No more :frus:

[NickiT]

Okay, I'm getting confused.

According to Sparkpeople.com, I should be eating between 1600-1900 calories to lose weight. According to the website Mrs. Redboots posted, I should be eating about 2200!!

I used Sparkpeople to track my calories for about 2 weeks, and kind of just ate normal--not dieting, but not going whole hog either, and found out that I tend to eat between 1800-1900 just on my own. Well, I'm definitely not losing weight on that regimen! In fact, according to the English site (which did indeed take a lot more into account for the figuring), I'm not eating near enough!

I've always LOVED food & would gladly eat my weight in chocolate chip cookies given the chance, so I can't believe that I'm not eating enough, but that's what the chart is telling me. I think I'd have to really try to eat 2200 calories, (more cheesecake!!), but I'm sure I'd gain weight....wouldn't I? I've been reading about how if you don't eat enough your metabolism slows.....but I'm certainly eating plenty now......but not losing weight, even though both charts agree I'm certainly not overeating & should be losing weight. I'm confused.....:?: :?:


You are much like me! Spark People reckon I need to eat between 1200 and 1550 to lose weight. I've kept within that range for the past two weeks after coming down from eating 1700 - 1800 calories, and not lost weight. My problem is that I've been on a diet more than off since the age of 12, and I guess now my body has got so used to surviving on less food. If I ate anywhere near the recommended amount just to maintain I'd be bigger than a house now. The only time I really lost weight and this goes back about 13 years - was by sticking to a diet of 1250 calories. However I didn't skate anywhere near as much then as I do now, but then again I'm older - so the dilemma is this - do I increase my calories to take into account my skating or do I just stick at 1250 and assume my age would negate out the extra required for skating? If I could just find the right level that would see a steady weight loss but I can't. I've been on around 1400 this past week or so with no loss so am extremely tempted to drop further until I see a loss, but I don't want to end up in starvation mode or in even worse starvation mode than I am already if I already am!

Nicki

[lovepairs]

I've always LOVED food & would gladly eat my weight in chocolate chip cookies given the chance, so I can't believe that I'm not eating enough, but that's what the chart is telling me. I think I'd have to really try to eat 2200 calories, (more cheesecake!!), but I'm sure I'd gain weight....wouldn't I? I've been reading about how if you don't eat enough your metabolism slows.....but I'm certainly eating plenty now......but not losing weight, even though both charts agree I'm certainly not overeating & should be losing weight. I'm confused.....

Pheonix,

This is all predicated upon eating a healthy well-balanced diet according to the Food Pyramid, and really watching that you don't over do your fat intake. 20-35% of your daily intake should be from the "fats" or tip of the pyramid.

Yes, you will certainly gain weight if you eat cheescake and chocolate chip cookies to reach your caloric intake, because you are overdosing on Fat Grams.

Pheonix, repeat after me:

"I will not eat junk, or processed food to meet my calorie needs."

Only eat this stuff as a rare, every so often treat if you must. Your metabolism is not going to get jump started with refined sugar. You need a variety of nutrients found in real food to wake your metabolism up. Highly processed foods with refined sugars and hydrogonated oil (fats that take a solid form at room temperature) and fillers, and chemicals are going to destroy you and your efforts. Try to shop the perimeters of the super market (that's were they keep the good stuff!)

Hope this helps.

[lovepairs]

I'm sorry I keep jumping in, but I'm totally blown away by how many skating woman are struggling with what I've been going through all of these years. I really thought it was only me...I'm totally blown away 8O

[vesperholly]

Actually, the link is http://www.stumptuous.com/

[flippet]

For the first time she had a description of my delema. It was the first time I came across this in all of my readings about nutrition and weight management. She described what I has as "disorganized eating." It is characterised by the athlete young, or old trying to loose weight. This person gradually starts eliminating food from his/her diet, thinking that the less taken in the more weight will be lost. As foods become eliminated this person lapses into linear eating with just a few foods left that they feel safe with, and it goes something like this: egg, egg, egg, egg, orange, orange, orange, orange, coffee, coffee, coffee, carrot, carrot, carrot, carrot, ect...see what I mean. Even though it look organzied, it is really "disorganized," because your eliminating nutritional value, by limiting variety and food groups, thus eliminating essential nutrients, not getting what your body needs, and totally shutting down your metabolism. At the time I posted this thread asking for help, my body was in "hibrination," and I really thought I was going to die.

This is a very different syndrom from Anorexia, or Bullemia, which are grouped under the heading of "eating disorders." So, anytime, any one would say that I had an "eating disorder" I knew that I wasn't going to get the help I needed because the problem was being miss defined. In other words, I wasn't binging and purging, and I didn't have an aversion to eating and I wasn't wasting away. I wanted to keep eating, but I got myself into this corner, and forgot how.

Well, you did actually say that you were 'scared' to eat. Maybe that's not what you meant, but we can only go by what you say.

What you said above is exactly what I meant when I posted this:
I certainly can't diagnose an "eating disorder"...only a doctor can do that. But from what lovepairs wrote, it's most definitely disordered eating. If she's 'afraid' to eat, then something is wrong, and she needs to see a dietician/nutritionist, and possibly more specialists.

Pardon me for saying 'disordered' rather than 'disorganized', but it's the same thing. I was never trying to say that you had anorexia. (In fact, I only posted what I'd read about anorexia because it was a different way of looking at that disease--since the subject had come up.) And, I don't care what you weigh. I just know that eating so few calories does not equal weight loss, contrary to most popular thought. And that health is more important than any arbitrary number on a scale, or arbitrary number of calories, no matter who you are.

I'm glad that you've found something that makes it clear for you--it sounds like a sensible book.

[blisspix]

just off topic, my own coach asks me what I've been eating, and I get the occasional "less beer please" lecture.

hmm, that's definitely a 'me too'. I don't eat brilliantly all the time, though I try to eat a lot of wholegrain bread, lean white meat, green veggies etc (luckily I don't have much of a sweet tooth) but I definitely spend a wee bit too much time at the pub. Probably the worst thing is that I meet up with friends at the pub after ballet, neatly undoing all that good work.

So I have strong muscular legs, am fairly average all over, but have a round stomach that I need to work on!!! :)

[Mrs Redboots]

Hi Redboots,

Which food journal do you use? I found an Xcel program in my Microsoft Suite (you know in the Project Gallery) that actually tracks calories and fat grams and % and then adds everything up for you. It's a really easy way to keep a mindful eye upon what I'm doing. What do you use?I use a notebook and biro, mostly! The very act of writing down that I ate a piece of cumin-flavoured gouda (yum, yum) sometimes stops me having a large piece of Comte or Emmenthal as well.

But I do post them on-line, just to stay accountable, on the weight-loss support groups at iVillage.co.uk (http://messageboards.ivillage.co.uk/iv-ukdfycdi) and iVillage.com (http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ghdiet)

[lovepairs]

Thanks, Red!

You're really funny! This is very helpful. Thanks for the links, I'll take a look at their food tracker.

Best,
Lovepairs

[VegasGirl]

According to Sparkpeople.com, I should be eating between 1600-1900 calories to lose weight. According to the website Mrs. Redboots posted, I should be eating about 2200!!

Could it be that calories are calculated/defined differently in the UK then in the US?

[crayonskater]

vesperholly: thanks for the catch! www.stumptuous.com.


Calories (or technically kCals) are scientifically defined and thus shouldn't vary between countries.

The difference may be that a) the range of what you need is very broad and dependent on age, gender, and activity level (which the calculators don't often ask) b) and whether the calorie count they're giving is aimed towards weight loss or maintenance.

A quick rule of thumb:
To lose fat: 8 to 12 times bodyweight. For me, at 132 pounds, that would be 1056-1584. As I'm young and active, but female I should probably stick to the mid-high end of that range.

To stay the same: 13 to 16 times bodyweight. 1716-2112.

Really, they're all just educated estimates. At 132 with a fairly muscular frame, the amount of calories I would burn will differ than if I were 132 and non-muscular. If you're fidgety, you'll burn more than someone who is still.

[Mrs Redboots]

Could it be that calories are calculated/defined differently in the UK then in the US?No, calories are exactly the same. I think Sparkpeople suggests far too low a calorie intake.

If you google "Calorie requirements" and go to any of the sites posted, they mostly come out about the same. The site I originally posted, where you do the maths yourself, is, of course, for maintaining weight - you need to subtract up to 500 calories a day from that total to lose weight.

[phoenix]

So basically it appears that I am *under* eating?? I'm really flabbergasted over that...... And I was mainly kidding about the cheesecake, etc. I am a sweets fiend, but most days I keep it under control.

Not sure I'm willing to start eating that much more as an experiment at this point....... I wish I could discuss it all w/ a nutritionist in person. They don't have a listing for that in my phone book--how do you find such a person?

[Mrs Redboots]

You go here (http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/index.html) and click on "Find a nutrition professional"

Oh, and just for fun, I've posted some "before and after" pix of myself here (http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/amsmyth_2000/album?.dir=/6fb8re2&.src=ph&.tok=phTj_AFB3UIPfxlj).

[NickiT]

You go here (http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/index.html) and click on "Find a nutrition professional"

Oh, and just for fun, I've posted some "before and after" pix of myself here (http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/amsmyth_2000/album?.dir=/6fb8re2&.src=ph&.tok=phTj_AFB3UIPfxlj).

You did really well Annabel. I remember seeing you in your "larger" days then coming to have my disastrous skate at Streatham and seeing the new slim you! I've said it before and I say it again....congratulations! You are an inspiration to the rest of us who are struggling!

Nicki

[lovepairs]

Awesome weight loss, Mrs. Redboots! How'd you do it--tell all!!!

[Mrs Redboots]

Awesome weight loss, Mrs. Redboots! How'd you do it--tell all!!!On-line support, keeping a food journal, focussing on what to eat, not what not to..... but it took a long time, which you would expect. Still losing weight slowly, but not really trying to any more. And I do think that being finished with the change of life helped, too. I'm as light as I was in my twenties now - but, alas, I don't have the figure I had then!

[flo]

A friend was working on losing wt. For each milestone I gave her a corresponding gift. One pound - a pound note, 5 - a sac of flour (she could feel how much she lost), 10 - a 10lb watermellon. It got interesting for the higher wts. One time I ended up giving her a bag of kitty litter. As she has multiple kitties, it was a welcome surprise.

Mrs. R - The pics don't do you justice - you look fab!

[Mrs Redboots]

Mrs. R - The pics don't do you justice - you look fab!Thank you!

[Rusty Blades]

I'm as light as I was in my twenties now - but, alas, I don't have the figure I had then!

*** Dianne looks down ***

Ah yes, gravity is a cruel mistress . . . . 8O

[Rusty Blades]

How come, when I go to http://www.stumptous.com I get a general retail directory for games, toys, etc?

[vesperholly]

How come, when I go to http://www.stumptous.com I get a general retail directory for games, toys, etc?
Because it's stumptUous, not stumptous.

http://www.stumptuous.com

[Rusty Blades]

That link works - thanks!