Mental block - crossing the feet in jumps

[sunshinepointe]

So, way back when I learned the flip and the loop I was never instructed to "cross" the feet, so I tend to leave the foot (left in my case) sort of to the side. I've been able to semi-correct this in the loop although its not consistent, but on the flip it just baffles me. I used to have a decent flip in terms of takeoff/landing/height, but now I'm so concerned about hitting the right position that everything else has gone by the wayside too. I'm telling my leg to cross, and just when it starts to cross I bail out and not cross at all. I know that this has to be a mental block - perhaps a fear of not being able to "uncross" on checkout/landing? I'm totally mystified right now and its keeping me from progressing to harder jumps. If I do a loop from a RFI3 I can cross, but from back crossovers it's hit or miss. The flip - no go. I've tried backspins with strong checkouts and other exercises for the flip, like picking in and jumping straight back with no rotation and on these exercises I hit the position no problem. Any advice? My coach has come up with 536474654 different things for me to work on/try but nothing is translating to the jump itself, so I'm thinking its just a mental block?

Sigh :giveup:

[Isk8NYC]

Most coaches don't teach singles with the feet crossed - it's not needed. The loop from crossovers problem is probably because you're not lifting the knee to the front, so you're jumping with an open hip. Be aware of your hip/knee position before you take off and it should right itself.

Have you tried jumps landing into a backspin? That forces you to keep the free foot in front, which can help build the strength to cross the feet.

I saw a unique training drill on TV - it was the "Ice Diaries" series. The coach wanted the skater to tighten the cross of the legs in her triple jump, so he used a giant band - it must have been rubber or vinyl. She had to put it over both legs, bring it up to thigh height, then do the jump. The band kept her legs from opening up, but had enough give to let her save herself if she fell.

It would take real courage to start using it without a coach who knows how to use the band, but what if you PRETENDED to have it on?

[sunshinepointe]

Thanks for the advice :)

My coach has a couple of reasons for wanting the feet (ankles/legs whatever lol) crossed - 1) She anticipates me doing doubles and doesn't want me to struggle with the crossing technique later on and 2) sometimes, particularly on the flip I'm not totally getting over the right side because I have some weight on that dangling foot, this being the biggest reason for wanting the cross.

She mentioned putting me in the harness to get the feeling of the jump but - she's rather small and I'm rather big so that could just be a comedy of errors. I have tried landing jumps in backspin position - but the leg still pops out too early.

It could be just a matter of practice, but my coach is pretty insistent that I get the technique before moving on. I'm content to stick with it, but it is rather frustrating that I can't get a concept as "simple" as this.

The thing with the theraband sounds interesting - dangerous, but interesting. I wish I had a trampoline to try it out at home :twisted:

[mikawendy]

Sunshinepointe, I have a similar problem, in that my free leg (especially in the flip, and sometimes in loop or loop-loop) gets too far to the outside of the circle. I've also been taught (for singles) to not cross tightly, but I have a similar problem as you where my free leg gets way too far to the outside.

This isn't really a suggested fix, but here's my thinking on why I do this--often I'm afraid (especially on the flip) that I'm not going to be able to fully rotate the jump, though I'm able to. Sometimes I have to remember that the rotation comes from bringing in the arms and also I have to slow myself down and not rush the jump.

[doubletoe]

I agree that it is not advisable to actually cross the free leg on a single jump. On the other hand, holding the free foot in front of the shin of the landing leg is absolutely a good thing to do. Maybe this is actually what your coach is shooting for.
Also, even on a double, you don't really cross the free foot over the skating leg. Instead, you turn the landing hip in while leaving the free leg in the same place (keeping the free side hip closed), so that you turn into the free leg and that's how it ends up directly in front of the landing leg (so it looks "crossed over"). If you were to actually cross the free leg over the landing leg, you would have to move the free leg in the opposite direction of rotation, which would kill your rotation.

Ithink one of the best things to do to get your free leg in the right place on your flip is to do a few reverse spins right before practicing the flip. If you don't have a backspin yet, it will help your jump positions a lot for you to work on it, particularly the loop, flip, lutz and axel.

[Chico]

I'm another one who struggles to keep my free hip closed. My coach has been working on this with me and on good days it's better. It's those hard days that I struggle a ton. I find keeping my free hip closed until the skating leg hits the ice for the landing helps me a ton. That, and remembering to have an upward push with the free knee on takeoff. It's a process.... I have very open hips and oftern wonder if this contributes to my harder time. Maybe it's just an excuse which is more likely. =-)

Chico

[bbowie]

I'm exactly opposite to you. I used to cross too much on my singles. Then i changed to my current coach who spent lots of time on correcting my cross leg technique. Yup , and she said you shouldn't cross your leg in singles. thats for doubles or triples.

[emma]

Oh, but what about the axel. While when i was taught to do axels as a kid i was taught to put your free foot to the side of your skating foot(look at old peggy fleming videos not a crossed leg in any axel). But today they teach kids to cross into the back spin position on single axels and for that matter all coaches at our rink teach to be in a very open cross foot position for singles so kids get use to having that free foot in front so when time comes for doubles their position is correct and all they need to do is pull in tighter. I find it imposible to get into that cross foot position on the axel no matter how hard i try. It is because i am terrified of that position in the axel but one thing that has helped correct that is doing a combination jump with a loop as your second jump, it forces you to have that foot in front.

[doubletoe]

Oh, but what about the axel. While when i was taught to do axels as a kid i was taught to put your free foot to the side of your skating foot(look at old peggy fleming videos not a crossed leg in any axel). But today they teach kids to cross into the back spin position on single axels and for that matter all coaches at our rink teach to be in a very open cross foot position for singles so kids get use to having that free foot in front so when time comes for doubles their position is correct and all they need to do is pull in tighter. I find it imposible to get into that cross foot position on the axel no matter how hard i try. It is because i am terrified of that position in the axel but one thing that has helped correct that is doing a combination jump with a loop as your second jump, it forces you to have that foot in front.

The bench exercise is also a good one for getting used to that air position. You stand about 1 foot in front of a secured bench or raised surface (it should be about knee height), jump straight up like an axel takeoff, do just 1/2 turn and land backward on your landing foot, with your arms open and rounded in front of you and your free foot in front of the shin of your landing leg (knee bent, and open). Like you said, once you're in that position, you just pull in for that last 1 revolution.

[luna_skater]

Oh, but what about the axel. While when i was taught to do axels as a kid i was taught to put your free foot to the side of your skating foot(look at old peggy fleming videos not a crossed leg in any axel). But today they teach kids to cross into the back spin position on single axels and for that matter all coaches at our rink teach to be in a very open cross foot position for singles so kids get use to having that free foot in front so when time comes for doubles their position is correct and all they need to do is pull in tighter.

This is exactly how I'm learning...waltz jump from a stand-still, landing in a backspin position. Sometimes tight, sometimes loose, depending on what part of the body we are concentrating on. Have also been working on salchows into a "loose" or "open" backspin (more like back 3-turns with the free foot in front). On regular singles, I'm always focused on having my free foot in front during the jump.

[sunshinepointe]

I wasn't 100% clear on what I meant by cross - my coach does not want a tight cross, but rather a "loose"/open position. My guess is that I'm not closing the free hip like some of you have suggested- I'll give it a go at my lesson tomorrow :D

[doubletoe]

I wasn't 100% clear on what I meant by cross - my coach does not want a tight cross, but rather a "loose"/open position. My guess is that I'm not closing the free hip like some of you have suggested- I'll give it a go at my lesson tomorrow :D

Something else that will help a lot is to make sure you keep your face turned just a tad away from the direction of rotation (to the right if you rotate CCW and land on your right foot) from before take off all the way until you've landed. It helps keep you backwards over the right hip and you don't get so tempted to open out that hip to face forward. This is something you'll want to do on loops, flips, and lutzes, as well as anything over 1 revolution.

[littleiceskater]

I have the same little "mental block"...I feel like i won't have enough time to uncross my legs and I'll end up falling so my free leg just sort of hangs out there as well...I am working on it you just have to practice i guess...:)

[SkatingOnClouds]

I also have this problem on loops, flips and toe-loops. I know why I do it in loops, I use leverage from my free leg to initiate the jump. I just couldn't get off the ice when I first learned them without opening my left hip and lifting my left knee to get the movement happening. On the flip and toe-loop it is just that it was a long time (20 years) between jumps, so I don't trust my body to do it without using the free leg to jump around on its own. I know it doesn't need to, but try telling my body that.

I guess I'll just keep plugging away at it. The other night I fell on a jump - can't remember whether flip or loop, I fall so often :roll: - and I had actually got my free leg so well crossed that when I landed on my butt it was still crossed.

[SpiralSweetie09]

once you learn something one way, its hard to try it another way. In skating there are lots of ways. *sigh* That's the prob. Im just learning my flip, salchow, and a couple of other one rotation jumps. Are you saying I shouldn't cross my foot? Does it help?

[Sonic]

So, way back when I learned the flip and the loop I was never instructed to "cross" the feet, so I tend to leave the foot (left in my case) sort of to the side. I've been able to semi-correct this in the loop although its not consistent, but on the flip it just baffles me. I used to have a decent flip in terms of takeoff/landing/height, but now I'm so concerned about hitting the right position that everything else has gone by the wayside too. I'm telling my leg to cross, and just when it starts to cross I bail out and not cross at all. I know that this has to be a mental block - perhaps a fear of not being able to "uncross" on checkout/landing? I'm totally mystified right now and its keeping me from progressing to harder jumps. If I do a loop from a RFI3 I can cross, but from back crossovers it's hit or miss. The flip - no go. I've tried backspins with strong checkouts and other exercises for the flip, like picking in and jumping straight back with no rotation and on these exercises I hit the position no problem. Any advice? My coach has come up with 536474654 different things for me to work on/try but nothing is translating to the jump itself, so I'm thinking its just a mental block?

Sigh :giveup:
Hi

(First to introduce myself - I'm an adult skater, skated for 2 years as a kid, returned (after nearly 20 years!) in January.

I've just started flip and loop - been doing 'em for about a week and just about landed the first ones on Tuesday (whoopee!). IMHO the secret is not to try too hard. Ideally you cross the feet in the air but IMHO the best way is what works for you - secret is I guess is don't try too hard.. To me the most important thing is not too lean forward too much, pull arms in as tight as you can to get the rotation.

HTH, Sonic xx

[doubletoe]

I also have this problem on loops, flips and toe-loops. I know why I do it in loops, I use leverage from my free leg to initiate the jump. I just couldn't get off the ice when I first learned them without opening my left hip and lifting my left knee to get the movement happening.
You can still lift the knee of your free leg to give you lift without opening up the free hip. Just keep the knee straight in front of you instead of opening it out to the side, and keep facing backwards instead of turning to face the direction of rotation. You'll end up with your free knee lifted and your free foot in front of the shin of your landing foot, which is the perfect air position for a single loop, flip, lutz, etc.

[SkatingOnClouds]

You can still lift the knee of your free leg to give you lift without opening up the free hip. Just keep the knee straight in front of you instead of opening it out to the side, and keep facing backwards instead of turning to face the direction of rotation. You'll end up with your free knee lifted and your free foot in front of the shin of your landing foot, which is the perfect air position for a single loop, flip, lutz, etc.


Thanks, I'll let you know how that goes after practise tomorrow