Jumps - the loop

[Evelina]

Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone can give any advice on jumps. Today my coach started teaching me the loop, its my first full rotation jump and I am finding it difficult to get the confidence to really go for it and get that full rotation. She had me practicing on the barrier but its not ideal as when I land i tend to skate into it seeing how it's not on a curve and have more bruises from that then I would probably get from falling.

I have fallen a lot of times before and I know I will many more so I don't think its the fear of falling. For some reason when it comes to taking off on that outside edge I just don't feel like I have the strenght to actually get up high enough for a full rotation.

Any suggestions would be helpful!

Thanks,
Evelina

[phoenix]

?? Are you sure it's loop and not toe loop? Usually the toe loop is the first full rotation jump you learn. In my area, loop would come at least 3rd in the progression of jumps, after toe loop and salchow. (you'll know because the toe loop is a pick jump, loop is an edge jump)

If it really is a loop, I teach it from a right forward inside 3-turn, learning first to come out of the turn w/ the left leg held in front (like a backspin position), then learning to jump from there. I never like to see things taught w/ the aid of the wall, I think it's dangerous & not that helpful in the long run because you just learn to hang onto the wall. Better to put you in the jump harness than that.

[skatingdoris]

hi evelina
i agree with phoenix that you should try to learn the jump away from the wall even if it is scary at first.

how do you enter it?

i was taught from a foward RI3 turn and cant seem to get to gripps with doing it any other way. (counterclockwise jumper)
i have found that the most important thing is to get a really good deep 3-turn and make sure that when you are on the back edge that your weight is completely on the outside edge with your free leg toward the inside of the circle.

in this way your not actually doing a full rotation in the air, you are about 1/4 of the way round already when you take off.

i remember that once i got comfortable sitting on a deep back outside edge pushing out of the ice and getting the rotation came alot more naturally, check out this site for good info on your single jumps:

http://home.pacbell.net/anamga/figureSkating.html#6.2.4


the Loop is definatly a hard jump to learn, and seems to take the majority of people quite a while to get so don't be disheartend, it took me 7 months to get it consistant - at least it finally seems to be so just keep plugging away.

good luck

[Evelina]

Thanks for the tips. I have done the salchow and the toe loop but as half roation jumps really, they're not fully up in the air the way this one is, the are more like free jupms added onto turns. So yes it is the loop I am trying to learn, and the way I am doing it is free jump - landing with the left leg in front of the right as in the back spin - and then taking off from that right outside edge. That's the hard part. I feel like I can't get enough lift to get me up and rotate, I think that's what's scaring me.

Unfortunatelly we don't have a harness at the rink so it seems its the wall or nothing. I will try to brave the ice tomorrow as I imagine it is easier away from the wall, it just seems I have this mental block on this!

[skatingdoris]

i find doing a loop from a 3-jump landing very hard to, a can't seem to get the edge deep enough, but i know i will need to learn it this way eventually.

try it from the 3-turn when your being brave tomorrow :lol: you might find it easier, you never know and it has the advantage of giving you really good strong RI3's.

[Isk8NYC]

I teach the half-flip and flip before the loop, just to get the student comfortable with the full rotation.
Try a half-loop: just land on the LBI edge and check out the jump.

I also don't teach anything higher than a waltz jump on the wall, and then only for the first two lessons.
It's very hard to watch out for wallflowers and jump at the same time when the jumps have curves in them. I worry about falls where the student might hit their head on the wall. I'd rather have them sprawl on the ice. ;)
(One of my Prelim students is a master at falling - no fear whatsoever.)

I teach the RFI 3-turn entrance for the loop, but I actually learned/skated with a different entrance. Maybe it would help you - here's how:
(NB: Assumes CCW Rotation)

From a LFO 3-turn, check the LBO edge then push/drop onto a RBO edge.
Glide with both feet uneven on a curve, arms checked to the right side.
To jump, deepen the right knee bend and edge, then spring into the air.
At the same time, bring the right arm through to the front and push the left shoulder back.
The free leg should LIFT the thigh to give you more height on the jump and prevent a two-foot takeoff.

Land by catching the right toe pick and use the left leg to pull the right foot onto a RBO edge and check in a landing position. Arms should open and check with the left arm in front, right arm out to the side.

One advantage to this takeoff is that you get the feel for the outside edge (assuming you don't develop the two-foot habit) and how to deepen it without the tight edge the RFI 3-turn provides. As a result, any RBO edge is fair game - 3-jump, back crossover pullout, another loop - because you've mastered creating the deep jump edge from scratch, so to speak.

I would suggest mastering the RFI 3-turn at some point, though. It looks so beautiful when skaters do a series of one-foot turns and pop a loop.

[Spreadeagle]

I was just working on double loops this morning and here are some things that might help:
-The rotation of the jump comes completely from your right side. I have a very bad habit of using my left arm to initiate the jump. Your weight should be completely to the right, and your left arm doesn't have to do anything.

-My coach says to think that you are backing your butt up into the garage. So you are holding that deep right outside edge, and you "back up" into the jump, instead of trying to force it around.

-You mostly use your knee and ankle bend to get up into the jump. If you are on the RBO edge and over your right side, once you start to bend your knee and ankle, it's almost like you can't help but jump and you don't really have to force anything.

Not sure if that helps? As I type it out, I realize that I'm not very good at describing!

[Mrs Redboots]

I also teach the half-flip and flip before the loop, just to get the student comfortable with the full rotation.Half-flips aren't done here, for some reason. I don't know why, because they make a good "link" jump in a sequence, but they're not taught to beginners.

[TashaKat]

I got my loop from the FI3. I found it helpful because it gave me that extra bit of rotation that I needed to get the jump around which gave me the confidence to go for it. It's always worth a try, it works for some people and not for others.

From being my nemesis when I was learning it the loop was actually my best jump and nearest double in the end! I loved the loop and could do a sequence of loops without breaking a sweat. Oh I want to skate again ....

[frbskate63]

Although the loop is a full rotation jump, your blade only has to rotate just over 180 degrees. Psychologically, I found that thinking of it as a half rotation hop rather than a full rotation jump helped A LOT.

Fiona

[Evelina]

Although the loop is a full rotation jump, your blade only has to rotate just over 180 degrees. Psychologically, I found that thinking of it as a half rotation hop rather than a full rotation jump helped A LOT.

Fiona

Can you explain a bit more what you mean? How is it just over 180 degrees? It sounds like a good way to think about it especially since I think its mostly a mental block I am having, I just don't quite see why the blade isn't rotating 360 if you are. Thanks!

Evelina

[doubletoe]

The weird part about the loop is that it's the first jump where you need to stay backwards the whole time. It seems counter-intuitive, but the more you face away from the jump direction, the more you are guaranteed to get all the way around. Keep your face turned slightly to the right the whole time (assuming you take off and land on the right) and never face the direction of the jump.
Also, it's important to understand that the rotation starts at the ankle, moves up to the knee, then hip, and that's it. The upper body catches up and becomes squared with your hips once you take off, but you need to think of your upper body staying in place as your hips counter-rotate against yoru torso.

Try it from a right inside 3-turn, bending deeply and making sure your right butt cheek is directly over your right heel on the 3-turn exit. Sit on that 3-turn exit and let it curl until you feel like you will go into a backspin if you stay on the ice any longer. Keep your left foot turned in to keep that left hip closed. Now spring straight up off the toepick, looking slightly to the right, keeping your right shoulder back and keeping your upper body squared and still. The more you point your toe on takeoff, the more you guarantee a safe landing. Think of rotating backwards right over your takeoff toe.

[cutiesk8r43]

to me the loop was hard. i landed my flip before which made me get the feel of rotation and height but then i just had to learn to get the right edge.it is hard to land a loop without the edge. thats why i think it was hard for me to get it:D

~Cutie;)

[frbskate63]

Can you explain a bit more what you mean? How is it just over 180 degrees?

Evelina

If you approach the loop skating round a shallow circle, just before take-off, the RBO entry edge curves almost 90 degrees into the circle. Then you jump, and land on an RBO curving almost 90 degrees out of the circle. Hence only half a rotation. Try it slowly from an RFI3.

Good luck!

Fiona

[doubletoe]

Also, the more you point your toe on takeoff--and keep it pointed--the less you have to worry about getting all the way around. First of all, you'll end up pivoting a little on the toe on takeoff, and then you'll also end up pivoting on the toe a little on the landing. You barely need any height at all. That's the advantage of taking off and landing backwards; you're always backwards on the landing toe as long as you continue to face backwards instead of trying to turn to face forward. It's a very safe jump to land under-rotated if you look at it that way!

[SpiralSweetie09]

I recently learned the flip, and my coach made me fall on my butt about 10 times while doing mini flips, and i think it helped me alot. Im not scared of falling either, I just think it's a natural reaction, when your high in the air, your feet and legs arent sure if you will land, so they sort of not put any energy into it, that way you wont fall. You just have to go for it. That's what i had to do anyway. Practicing strong pushes also helped me. The stronger i pushed off on my toe pick, the higher i got. Also, my coach had this thing about telling me that If I didnt get any higher, the imaginary lava would kill me. (She also told me this when i travel on my scratch spins) :lol: Keep at it, Im sure you will get it. If all else fails, Just remember "lava"
lol
~Best of luck in skating~
Lauren

[Evelina]

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I managed to actually land a loop of the free jump. It really is a question of just going on it which is funny as often its almost like I have to argue with my body - I want to make it jump but it is too scared! Again, thanks guys!

Evelina

[beachbabe]

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I managed to actually land a loop of the free jump. It really is a question of just going on it which is funny as often its almost like I have to argue with my body - I want to make it jump but it is too scared! Again, thanks guys!

Evelina


lol, i totally get what you are saying, i am still inconsistent on my double loop and i always like to chicken out and land forward with 1.5 revolutions lol. But when i really force myself and get over the fear i can do the jump properly.

[Mrs Redboots]

Coach wreaked magic on Husband's loop today - what was happening was that he was, apparently, jumping too much with his left side, so unable to sustain the landing. Coach told him to just cross his legs and let his left leg dangle, and do all the work with his right leg, and he would land it - so he did, and he did! Barely missed one for the rest of the session!