Competition Programs

[sarahmom3]

My Daughter just started competing. This will only be her second competition, but it'sa pretty major one. She has had her program for months, but only started really working on it for the past 2 weeks. Her timing is totally off. She is ending about 5 seconds after the music ends. Until now I haven't said anything because I figure if she has a coach, the coach makes all the calls. But she has only one more private before her competition! I know she'll fix it during this last lesson, but don't you think it should have been corrected by NOW? For her first competition, her coach changed a move right before she went out to perform..boy oh boy! Is this normal? I just think this stuff should be in place weeks if not months before a competition. What's your view? Thank you so much..
Sarah's (worried) mom!

[NickiT]

I certainly don't agree with changing a programme just before going out and competing. To me that's absolutely crazy. A child (or adult, since I myself compete!) runs through their programme over and over in the weeks running up to a competition and instils that routine into their head. Speaking for myself I get so nervous out on the ice when in competition that I sort of fall back on my "automatic pilot" so to speak - I've done the programme so much that I just run through the programme automatically. Even then I've been known to go out and have a mental block. So there's no way I'd want the pressure of an alteration thrown at me at the last minute. My daughter competed two weeks ago and just a week and a half before our coach added a back pivot at the end of her routine. On competition day she skated well until the end but was so focussed on remembering this back pivot that she missed her back spiral and subsequently messed up the end of her programme.

I think the important thing is that your daughter practices her programme over and over from now until the competition. As she gets more used to running through it she'll speed up enough to find herself finishing on time.

Nicki

[beachbabe]

The timing problem is coming from either lack of practice, or not the best music to keep up to.

As for changing a program right befoe the competition, I can't believe a coach would ever do that. I mean, an elite skater may be able to sub in a triple toe for a triple sal or soemthing like that, but for a yonger skater with less experience at competitions, making big changes is a horrible idea. Tell your daughter, that if she gets nervous, to just skate her program the way she knows it.

and tell her coach not to change the program now.

[Skate@Delaware]

I don't recall how old your daughter is. She may be old enough to handle last minute changes in her program. My daughter is 17 and gets them.

However, she should have been working on her program since the day she first got it.....which should solve the timing issue, because the more you work on it, the better it gets and you end up on time. If you don't work on it enough, you skate slower, take your time because you either don't remember all the elements, or it's not ingrained enough yet.

I've had my routine for months, and only recently have we changed it for a different competition. I skate it 3-4 times every time I hit the ice, which has been 5 days a week (since I got my new routine three weeks ago). At first, my music finished and I was still skating, but now it's on time.

[twokidsskatemom]

If she had the program for months, why did she just start working on it?

I will tell you when my skater was 4, she got a program 3 weeks or so before a comp.
Now she gets them maybe three months before, but its always a work in progress.They add this, take out that. She has an axle in her new pre pre program. They might leave it in or take it out when it gets closer. Her camel sit spin might change into sit back scratch.
But she does at least 2 run throughs everytime she is on the ice. Everyday. What used to take her two weeks to remember now takes one or two times.Im not sure if its cause she has has lots of programs in the past three years or cause she is getting older.

That said she does skate with an 11 year old pre skater , that really needs the time to memorize a program.She cant get hers down in a day or two.
The think the end with music thing takes time to learn too.

[sarahmom3]

Thanks you for your responses. My daughterjust turned 11 and is competing at the fs4 level.The elements are easy for her since she has already passed her fs5 test a couple of months ago. She's a quick learner, but I do think these things should be cemented.

When she first learned these progams, it was for an audition for a skating show in a smaller rink. This will be her first competition in a normal size rink. I agree with you all this program should have been in place way before now.

It sounds like when she learns a new program fro FS5, I will voice my concern about her practicing it way before she competes. Personally, I'd like it see it in place at least 1 month before competition. Does that sound reasonabe?
Thanks,
Sarah's mom

[VegasGirl]

My daughterjust turned 11 and is competing at the fs4 level.The elements are easy for her since she has already passed her fs5 test a couple of months ago.

I don't know whether your daughter competes in an ISI or USFSA competition but as for ISI she'd have to compete in her highest level past (don't know how it works for USFSA) meaninshe'd have to compete in FS5. Which is really only fair and exactly for the reason you mentioned that a level below is o easy that it would give her an unfair advantage over the kids that are competing in the highest level passed.

When she first learned these progams, it was for an audition for a skating show in a smaller rink. This will be her first competition in a normal size rink.

Which would make it even more important that she doesn't finish late since she will have to cover more ice... or is that the problem? Is she just not able to speed up enough to make up the time to cover the extra ice?

Did a coach put the program together for her? If so he/she should've accounted for that in the first place. I started competing on a smaller ice surface and then switched to a larger, yet never had trouble with my timing because my coach had already taken it into account when putting tgether the programs.

[twokidsskatemom]

I THINK she means she is in Freeskate 4. USFSA.

1. Loop jump. After entering from a three-turn or a Mohawk, take off from a back outside edge of the skating foot, with free leg lifting in front and rotating one full turn in the air. land on the take-off leg in a balanced and extended position. Landing is held a distance equal to two times the skater's height.
2. Waltz jump/loop jump combination. Using a controlled entry, combine the waltz jump and loop jump. After completing the waltz jump, land with upper body controlled solidly over skating side, with the free foot held in front. Lift into the loop jump landing in a balanced and extended position gliding at least two times the skater's height.
3. Spiral sequence: forward inside spiral, forward inside Mohawk, backward outside spiral, clockwise and counter clockwise. While moving in a circle, complete a forward inside spiral, do an inside Mohawk and then push into a backward outside spiral. Each spiral is held a distance of 2 to 3 times the skater's height.
4. Forward power three-turns, minimum of two to three consecutive sets, right and left. Do a LFO three-turn controlling body rotation with balance over the skating side and arms and free leg held in an extended free skating position. After the three-turn, do a wide step and power push to a two foot balance position (right knee is bent, left leg is straightened with head facing in the direction of travel and over the right side, shoulders and arms are held parallel to the print). Now reverse and pass arms close to the body (head follows facing the left side of body), as a wide power push shifts the body weight to a second two foot balance position (left knee is bent, right leg has straightened). Body weight is balanced over left leg. Now do a right back crossover. step forward and then repeat the sequence: LFO 3, wide step to power push, change arms and head, power push, back crossover, step forward. Repeat same sequence starting with the RFO 3, minimum of 2 to 3 consecutive sets are required.
5. Continuous backward progressive Chasse´ sequence on a circle, clockwise and counter clockwise. There are four steps to complete a sequence:

LBO, RBI, LBO, RBI - clockwise.
RBO, LBI, RBO, LBI - counter clockwise.
When moving clockwise in a backward direction start with a LBO stroke. The right foot is brought backward and placed beside the left foot and travels past the skating foot onto a RBI edge. A left back outside stroke completes the progressive and becomes the first step on the Chasse´. THe Chasse´ continues with the step onto the right foot as the left foot lifts slightly off the ice and vertically alongside the left. Now stroke onto the LBO to begin the second sequence. Do the progressive Chasse´ sequences to complete a full circle. Repeat in a clockwise manner.


Freeskate 5
1. Flip jump. Enter from a Mohawk or a three-turn. The flip is done from a straight back inside edge. The same arm as skating foot in front, opposite leg extends and reaches back to tap and create a vault and spring into the air. Lift off the toe pick and rotate one full turn landing with controlled upper body. Hold landing in a balanced and extended poition at least two times the skater's height.
2. Loop/loop combination. After completing the first loop jump, control the landing using firm arms to control body rotation and free leg held in front with body weight balanced over the skating side. Spring and lift immediately into the second loop jump landing in a balanced and extended position two times the skater's height. (No steps or turns between jumps).
3. Waltz jump/falling leaf/toe loop jump sequence. After completing an advanced waltz jump, take off from the back outside edge of the landing leg into the falling leaf by projecting the free leg forward turning 1/2 rotation and landing on the opposite toe from the take-off leg, step into a FI three-turn on the opposite foot, reach and tap into toe loop jump. Land on a balanced BO edge in an extended position. Hold landing for two times the skater's height.
4. Camel Spin, minimum of three revolutions. After entering from backward crossovers and completing a controlled entry, the camel will begin and the position will have the free leg height at least equal to the free hip and parallel to the ice. The upper body is inclined forward, with the back arched.
5. Forward upright spin to back upright spin, minimum of three revolutions, each foot. After competing the forward upright spin use a pivot action stepping over to the skating side of the opposite foot creationg a back spin. Each spin will be held for a minimum of 3 revolutions with the free foot crossed in front of the skating leg. A strong core body balance must be achieved, to create a centered spin on both forward and backward spins.
6. Backward outside three-turn, forward inside Mohawk, into three backward crossovers, repeat three times, clockwise and counter clockwise. Each part of this circle activity, back three-turn, mohawk and back crossovers is executed in a strong free skating position, head up, shoulders relaxed, arms and legs extended, with control of rotation of body, free leg position, smoothness of knee action and gliding edges.
7. Spiral sequence, forward outside spiral, forward outside three-turn, one backward crossover, back inside spiral, clockwise and counter clockwise. This sequence of spirals, turns, and crossovers should be executed with greater flexibility and balance. Moving clockwise, after holding the right forward outside spiral, the free foot is brought down in a controlled manner as the upper torso prepares for the RFO three-turn. After completing the three-turn do a backward crossover, and after pushing under the new free leg is extended into a right backward inside spiral on the same circle. the counter cockwise direction is executed in a similar fashion.
8. Forward outside Slide Chasse´ swing roll sequence, four to six lobes. The Slide Chasse´ is performed by first skating a left forward outside edge, the free foot is then brought close beside the skating foot and placed onto a forward inside edge. The new free foot is then slid forward and, this Slide Chasse´ is followed by a left forward outside swing roll, on the same lobe. Repeat this whole sequence of steps on the opposite feet and on a new lobe. Do this altermating sequences for 4 to 6 lobes.


Why isnt she competing in fs 5?In USFSA you can compete one level up but not down. In ISI, you compete at level passed.
Is her rink a normal size rink? what does she do run thoughs on now?

[Isk8NYC]

Last minute changes aren't THAT unusual for a pretty-new program. I've seen them happen because the student was struggling with an element, or (this is actually not-so-good) because the program included an "illegal" option (or left out a required element) that would have resulted in a penalty.

You're right: the program should be in place at LEAST one month before the competition, so the student and the coach can work out the kinks beforehand. In addition, your daughter should plan to practice the program without her coach.

How is her timing overall within the program? Does she hit the other elements on time or is she behind throughout the routine?

[sarahmom3]

Wow! You are all so helpful. Yes, the timing of the jumps and spins seem really good. It's just not ending on time, is all. She's skating about 3-5 seconds over her music. It does seem due to the increased ice area. She's trying to cover more space than before.

Also, the last FS test she took was FS4 (isi) she past months ago. Even though she has not officially tested FS5 level, she can do all the FS5 elements including a consistant axle. She also lands a double salchow (spelling?) about 40% of the time and has landed a couple of the double toe (loop?).

Geez, now I feel bad if she has an unfair advantage skating a FS4 (isi)program. This is her first real competition. Do you think her coach is keeping her at her FS4 program to give her some experience w/o having her worry too much about landing the elements? Crap..we need to talk! The elements are very easy. But putting it together in a program is a little more difficult.

Yes, her coach did put the program together and she practices at 2 different rinks. One is a small ice rink, the other is a regular standard size rink. She has been practicing he rprogram on the standard size rink now for a couple of weeks. That is what showed the timing issue.

Your posts are very interesting and I'm sitting here thinking.."Hmmmmm, ahhhh, ok...now i'm getting it"

I'm sorry I have so many questions and may seem a little clueless. I'm learning though. Thanks for your help.

[Perry]

If she's consistently skating on rinks two different sizes, she should always do her program whnever she's at the normal sized rink (and until she gets the timing, she should work on it a lot). I skate on an Olympic sized rink, which is larger than normal rinks, and when I skate on normal rinks I have to make small changes to my jump timing and program pattern to get it to fit. Because of that, ever time I'm on a normal (NHL) sized rink, I always do both my programs a few times -- and that's only to adjust for a fairly small size difference!

And at 11, last minute changes shouldn't be too much of a problem (though don't make them unless you absolutely need to!). My short program footwork sequence has changed at least six times so far (though none of them last minute) to adjust for the new system, and most skaters that I know have a backup plan when they test and compete, so that if a certain jump isn't there that day, they can take it out. In fact, when most kids are testing a freestyle program, they have a couple extra jumps they can change and takeout/put in in case they miss any.

[slusher]

When she actually goes out to compete, adrenalin will take care of that extra 5-6 seconds. She might end up with time left over. I really wouldn't worry about time, better to have completed elements.

[twokidsskatemom]

When she actually goes out to compete, adrenalin will take care of that extra 5-6 seconds. She might end up with time left over. I really wouldn't worry about time, better to have completed elements.
Amen to that.Make sure she holds her landing, and doesnt rush though things.Its hard hard thing to learn.
On another note IMO, she should be competing at fs5 if she has everything in 5, including axle and double sal.Is this a fs program or an artistic program?

[Isk8NYC]

Also, the last FS test she took was FS4 (isi) she passed months ago. Even though she has not officially tested FS5 level, she can do all the FS5 elements including a consistant axle. She also lands a double salchow (spelling?) about 40% of the time and has landed a couple of the double toe (loop?).

Geez, now I feel bad if she has an unfair advantage skating a FS4 (isi)program. This is her first real competition. Do you think her coach is keeping her at her FS4 program to give her some experience w/o having her worry too much about landing the elements?

Take a look at the competition entry form. It will tell you when the tests had to be registered with the ISI for that competition. It's usually one month before, but it varies. It's possible that she wasn't ready to pass the FS5 test when the test deadline approached, so the coach put her in for FS4. The footwork sequence for FS5 includes choctaws and brackets - maybe she hasn't learned them as yet. Your thought that it was to give her experience is also a possibility.

Don't point it out to your daughter before the competition, it won't do any good. It's too late now, with the competition approaching. If this is her first competition at this level, no one will say anything about "sandbagging*." However, if other skaters that know her lose to her more than once, they'll start grumbling.

If she has nailed all of the FS5 elements, she should be competing at that level. (BTW, the double salchow and double toe loop aren't needed for that test -- see below) To take the FS5 test, she's supposed to have a program prepared, so that should help take care of the "last minute" program problem. The test program can then become the competition program!

Talk to the coach out of earshot, just so you get the real reasons.

FS5 includes:
Lutz jump; Axel jump; Camel spin; Combination spin with change of position; Fast back scratch spin
Left forward outside open swing choctaw, left forward inside open choctaw, left forward outside bracket, right forward inside bracket
Set dance step sequence

* Sandbagging is a term that means keeping a skater at a lower test level to win competitions, even if the skater could skate at a higher level.

[Logan3]

My dd always competes in one level lower than the one that she is, simply because she is constantly advancing (still young) and by the time the comp date comes she is a level up. I do not consider that a sandbagging. In comp the other girls look about the same level so I assume is common for the younger skaters (they can go a level up in a month very easily). Besides some teachers pass the students the minute they can do a move while other wait untill the student matures a little bit. Right now my dd is basic 8 and she can do all the elements (ok with a crappy spin) but her teacher told me to stay a couple more sessions on the level to gain confidence. With that I mean there a little "gray" in what exactly level a student is and not "black" and "white". I think there is room for interpretation and we should not immediately rush to conclusion of sandbagging...

I agree that it is different doing elements on their own and doing them in a program. Learning to skate a good FS program it is a lot more difficult than mastering the elements. And timing is the most difficult thing. Elite skaters often have bad timing. Last season my dd competed in basic4. She can do a one leg backward glide the lenght of the ring but during the program she hardly got her leg up before she stop gliding. She absolutely did all elements SHORT like she did not have the ability. She also skated very fast and finished before the music.

There is also sometimes a difference in opinion between coach and skating family. Some coaches are more relaxed and do not go for perfection especially in a younger skater. Changing an element last minute, and a more casual attidute from the coach might mean that he/she has a different percpective. She might view the competition more like fun and gaining experience, not worrying much about a "profesional" result. Meanwhile the family wants the best! I personally do not mind a little bit of the casual attitude. Takes some of the pressure off....

[twokidsskatemom]

I stil think if My daughter was competing in Fs 4 with someone that had an axle and double sal, they need to be in fs 5.That is a big difference in elements.
i dont think this coach did it intentionaly, as its her first comp. But if it happens again, yes that is sandbagging.
When you start testing in USFSA, you cant compete lower than test.

[Isk8NYC]

With that I mean there a little "gray" in what exactly level a student is and not "black" and "white". I think there is room for interpretation and we should not immediately rush to conclusion of sandbagging...

Logan3, the USFSA basic skills levels have elements grouped together that are pretty much the SAME level of difficulty, right up through the USFSA FreeSKATE levels. In ISI Freestyle tests, each test has 1 or 2 tough elements that take longer to master than the other elements. As a result, some competitors struggle to pass the next higher test because they haven't mastered one key item. I've seen adults get "stuck" at the same level for more than one season, usually because of a spin or jump. It's one thing to cheat a jump, another to master it and be able to compete with that jump. For many kids, it's usually form or footwork that holds them back, unless they have Dance experience.

SarahMom's daughter is skating ISI, where every skater is required to perform specific maneuvers in their freestyle programs, and they are restricted from doing certain maneuvers. Big difference between ISI and USFSA: Kids in "No Test" USFSA competitions with axels in their programs. ISI competitions are grouped by level and age, so the girl could end up skating against friends. Pretty much every ISI competition is open-entry with no qualifying competitions because the ISI believes that skating should be fun. It's no fun to lose to a ringer, who should be skating against higher-level competitors but is held back to dominate a lower skating level. After a skater loses to a friend more than once, and knows that student can do much higher maneuvers, then the grumbling starts.

But, it's not an ISI-only phenomena: I've seen it at USFSA Basic Skills competitions as well, even the dinky little in-house comps. The discussion of what coaches hold kids back in tests to win comes up at every competition, sometimes just out of jealousy.

I gave some valid reasons why SarahMom3's child may be competing at the FS4 level, because I do NOT think this child is being held back to win. I stated that one competition does not cause grumblings, so the mom doesn't really need to worry about anyone saying anything to her DD, and SHE shouldn't say anything right before the competition. I think she'll be proactive and check it out before the next competition test deadlines, anyway.

If the child was skating at this level for the second year in a row and could do everything at a higher level, then I'd be concerned about the child being taunted. (That's the real concern, IMO.)

[Isk8NYC]

I stil think if My daughter was competing in Fs 4 with someone that had an axle and double sal, they need to be in fs 5.That is a big difference in elements. i dont think this coach did it intentionaly, as its her first comp. But if it happens again, yes that is sandbagging.
When you start testing in USFSA, you cant compete lower than test.

Just because the kid's a jumping bean doesn't mean that she can do EVERYTHING she needs for the FS5 level. (That's why I listed the elements.) Again, this is ISI and the test structure is organized differently than the USFSA. At this skater's level, the ISI tests can be given at any time - only one examiner is needed. However, she has to do the elements individually and then combine them in a well-performed program. That takes time to put together and has to be registered one month before the competition (usually). I think you can understand why it just doesn't matter at this point - it's too late for this weekend's competition.

This happens on USFSA Basic Skills as well. Coaches may put a student in Basic 3 when the kid's in a Basic 5 class but still hasn't mastered the Basic 4 three-turns. The USFSA Basic Skills competition rules say that the entry level is the highest test PASSED. If your skater's three-turns are weak, s/he hasn't passed Basic 4 yet, so s/he should compete Basic 3.

Once you've left the Basic Skills test levels, you have to either compete "No Test" or start taking the Pre-Prel/Preliminary/etc tests. Kids are competing in "No Test" with axels and the Preliminaries are doing doubles! It's as if we took what passes the tests and moved them down a level for the competitions. As a result, skaters are taking tests later and later, when they've mastered the two-levels-up maneuvers and can actually compete. It's a viscious cycle that's contributing to charges of "sandbagging."

I'm glad you don't think the coach did it intentionally in SarahMom3's case, I agree with you.

[luckeylasvegas]

I agree with ISK8NYC. My DD got caught in the same situation for her first comp. this year. She should have been moved up into FS5 and compete at 4 in some peoples opinion, but her coach was not satisifed with her sit spin. Another coach would have moved her up but we like to consider that every element is technically sound and consistent before it is considered "passed".

I think the OP's daughter had probably not passed FS5 when the entry forms were do. I personaly don't think there is that big of a difference between 4 and 5. Just because she can do an Axel does't mean that her FS4 elements will be that much better than any other child that she is competing against. And she won't be allowed to do the Axel in the program.

Also like ISK8NYC said my DD coach will not test her for pre-pre until she lands her Axel. That #*%$! Axel (lol). It's so close and yet so far away :frus: .

[twokidsskatemom]

Thanks you for your responses. My daughterjust turned 11 and is competing at the fs4 level.The elements are easy for her since she has already passed her fs5 test a couple of months ago. She's a quick learner, but I do think these things should be cemented.

When she first learned these progams, it was for an audition for a skating show in a smaller rink. This will be her first competition in a normal size rink. I agree with you all this program


I would assume if her mom thinks she passed 5, she hasthe rest of them as well.
I really dont think this case is sandbagging. But if she competed with my skater at fs 4, and I knew she had all her elements for 5, then I wouldnt be happy.
It does happen.Even at lower levels.

[twokidsskatemom]

the OP's daughter had probably not passed FS5 when the entry forms were do. I personaly don't think there is that big of a difference between 4 and 5. Just because she can do an Axel does't mean that her FS4 elements will be that much better than any other child that she is competing against. And she won't be allowed to do the Axel in the program.


There is a huge difference between 4 and 5.The axle. Kids stay in 4 until they have the axle.So you can have a kid be in 4 for more than a year.
In a spotlight or artistic program, she can put in whatever she wants.
I would assume if the skater jas an axle and is working on doubles, her flip and lutz would be better than someone without an axle. Im sure there are exceptions.
FS4: Flip, loop, sitspin, half loop , two back spirals, dance step sequence.
FS5: Lutz, Axel, camel, camel-sit-scratch, backspin, dance step sequence.

[sarahmom3]

Whew..after reading your posts I no longer consider this a "sandbag" I do agree it's too late to do anything about it now. After this weekends comp, I'll ask her coach about testing her because I think she should be doing FS5 programs. She is skating 2 numbers this weekend. One is a spotlight dramatic, and one is a technical.



Thanks for the info. ANd thanks in advance for my upcoming questions. Our goal for skating is to just to have fun and gain confidence.
Sarah's mom

[luckeylasvegas]

I'm not saying that it's not hard to get out of 5, trust me I know. What I'm saynig is that if someone has passed 4 then they should have good strong 4 elements. There are always kids that are just passing out of a level skating against kids that are just comming into a level. My daughter can do a flying camel and a double flip pretty well but she can't get out of FS5 until she lands her Axel, sometimes there's a reason a coach doesn't move a skater up. Some elements come easy and some you have to wait for. We just skated in a state games where they lumped my daughter who was at FS3 ,at the time, in with a FS1 skater for a spotlight program, and than she had to compete against FS4 girls in her Artistic program. The reason being is that the spotlights are supposed to be judge in a non technical entertainment way. I know that sandbagging happens but sometimes there is an underlying reason why a skater isn't in a higher level.

[twokidsskatemom]

Im not saying there arent good reasons. I am saying even this mom who knows how her skater skates, says she should be in FS 5.A skater that has her axle and some doubles should have a better Flip than somene who really belong in Fs 4.
All I know is here, kids are in Fs4 till they have axle.Tha is why there are a ton of kids in Fs 4, and less in 5,6 and 7.

[Lmarletto]

All these basic skills freeskate tests are given by coaches, aren't they? They are around here anyway and since my daughter has skated at 3 different rinks I have seen how much the test standard can vary from rink to rink, coach to coach. Unless you're an (competition) experienced skating parent, you really can't know that a skater "has" the elements from a level until you see how they compare to others in competition. I have heard parents say that their child "has" an element when I can clearly see the very same multiple flaws that my own daughter has been struggling with - and her coach has discussed with me. I would never assume a child should be moving up without seeing them against their competition or at least knowing how they had placed at a couple of larger competitions.

That said, sandbagging happens, even at the basic skills levels. There are a couple of kids around here who are blatantly beyond their competition, year after year (not just now and then). I feel bad for the kids because even though most people blame the coach and the parents, some of nasty comments inevitably include the kid.

[Isk8NYC]

All these basic skills freeskate tests are given by coaches, aren't they? Yes, usually the instructors do the USFSA Basic Skills tests and the ISI tests up to the higher level Freestyles. (At that point, you need more than one examiner, videos, or you have to take the test at certain events.)

I agree that different coaches have different standards for these tests. Plus, group lesson students are often "judged" easier than private lesson students. The coaches assume a private lesson student is more serious and needs to master these elements since those are often the students who become competitors.