Length of lessons

[Lmarletto]

In another thread, Lippylulu mentioned a coach recommending a 60 minute lesson for a 9yo beginner.8O I don't think the kids going to Nationals from our rink even take 60 minute lessons. I've even heard coaches say anything over 40 min is a waste of their time and the parents' money. Around here, 20 min lessons are sort of standard and skaters will generally add additional 20 min lessons on separate days before they will increase the length of the lessons. I'd be interested in hearing how it's done other places.

On a related note, I could have sworn I remembered a thread here where someone gave some guidelines for lesson and practice time based on what jumps a skater was working on. I'm almost certain it was this forum, but I can't find it. Does anyone else remember it?

[Clarice]

I remember that formula, too. It was by someone called "goldjudge", but I can't remember whether it was this forum or not. If I remember correctly, you counted the number of half rotations you do of each jump and divide by 2 to get the number of sessions needed per week. If I were calculating for myself (I do singles): toe loop - 2 half rotations, salchow - 2 half rotations, loop - 2 half rotations, flip - 2 half rotations, lutz - 2 half rotations, axel - 1 half rotation (I only do waltz jumps); for a total of 11 half rotations. So I should be practicing 5-6 hours a week. As far as lessons go, at my rink coaches generally give 20 or 30 minute lessons. Skaters take multiple lessons, not longer ones.

[Mrs Redboots]

Here, private lessons are 15 minutes long, which is fine for the very young, or the complete beginner; once they get interested in testing or competing, people seem to take double lessons. On a busy morning, the teachers can be hard pushed to find time to spend a penny or get a cup of tea!

[Lippylulu]

My daughter did take the 60 minute lesson last night with the new teacher. She seemed to enjoy it but it was a lot. Her first teacher suggested 2 30-minute lessons per week. We are going to play it by ear for now, but if she continues taking lessons with both, then I am going to ask hm about doing a 30 or 40 minute instead of the 60 minute. She seemed to enjoy the lesson but wow this is getting expensive fast!

[Logan3]

To my understanding a short lesson can get you far IF you spend the time to practice what the teacher told you. A lot of times the child knows exactly what to do and just needs to sweat it. Having a coach on top of you the whole time (while practicing) I do not think it helps you that much especially if money resources are limited. I tend to beleive that short but frequent classes would be better than fewer longer ones assuming you get practice time in between. I see that in my daughters progress. Having said that though it might be the case that somebody that has lots to cover might be benefiting for a couple longer classes but not as a routine.

[CanAmSk8ter]

I usually recommend 30-minute lessons. For very young skaters (three- and some four-year-olds) I like to do fifteen minutes twice a week; since we usually teach beginners on public sessions at my rink this also gives them time to skate and have fun with mom or dad.

My coach will work with his national competitors for an hour or so at a time, and I usually do forty-five minutes with him, but for a kid younger than ten or eleven who's not competing at a very high level, an hour seems like a lot.

I did have a mom ask me to give her five-year-old an hour lesson once a week. That wasn't going to happen. I suggested half an hour. We agreed to try forty-five minutes, with me knowing I'd be lucky if I got half an hour out of the kid, and in fact I got about twenty-five minutes.

[NickiT]

I feel that a 30 minute lesson is long enough. My kids started out with just 15 minutes but for small kids that's fine as they can't keep the concentration going for a full half hour, but once they are old enough, (about 7 or 8) then I think they are old enough to keep going for half an hour. I think anything more than an hour is too long.

Nicki

[twokidsskatemom]

My kids both started with 15 mins twice a week. Now my 6 year old gets 2 min lessons twice a week and my 5 yo one 30 min lesson a week.My daughter lesson does go to 45 min or longer at least once a week, when her coach has extra time.We only pay for 2 -30 min a week, no matter how long she has a lesson.
The first half is always MTF and the rest jumps spins and new program work.It goes by fast.Then she does dance in the lesson as well.
She has had 1 hour long lessons when working with her Choreographer on a new program.
The Jr level dancers here have one hour lessons twice a day !!!!!!!!!!

[twokidsskatemom]

I remember that formula, too. It was by someone called "goldjudge", but I can't remember whether it was this forum or not. If I remember correctly, you counted the number of half rotations you do of each jump and divide by 2 to get the number of sessions needed per week. If I were calculating for myself (I do singles): toe loop - 2 half rotations, salchow - 2 half rotations, loop - 2 half rotations, flip - 2 half rotations, lutz - 2 half rotations, axel - 1 half rotation (I only do waltz jumps); for a total of 11 half rotations. So I should be practicing 5-6 hours a week. As far as lessons go, at my rink coaches generally give 20 or 30 minute lessons. Skaters take multiple lessons, not longer ones.

She is over at the USFSA board.:)

[morganm]

There are a few of the younger skaters in our rink that do take 69 minute lessons, but generally it is with one of the junior coaches (high school age) and because the parent prefers that someone have their eye on them when the ice is busy. Granted, everyone has to learn how to deal with the bigger, faster, and sometimes less considerate kids, but when you're paying the junior coach half what you're paying a regular coach and it's for a lower level, it seem to work.

[vesperholly]

Since I started in private lessons, I took 15-minute lessons once a week - until I got to my Novice moves. By then, the test was so darn long I had to start 30-minute lessons just to cover everything!

In the past few years, I have been doing 30-minute lessons once a week. It was mostly because I would feel rushed with only 15 minutes, especially for freestyle, and tense up and drop technique just to get something accomplished. Recently due to finances I am alternating 30- and 15-minute lessons every other week. I am working on axel, double sal, Junior moves and I skate 4-5 hours a week.

Some of the more serious skaters at my rink have 30-minute lessons every day. I don't think many go for longer than that. It's too expensive to have your coach around all the time, and skating is such a practice-driven, independent sport that skaters need to learn to work on their own.

I think the more important statistic is ratio of practice time to lesson time. Little kids shouldn't practice 4 hours a week with only one 15-minute lesson - they'll forget things and develop poor technique, not to mention burn out.

[dbny]

I usually recommend 15 or 20 minutes for tots, and 30 minutes for those 5 and older. I have one littel student who just turned 7 and had missed her lesson one week. Her mom really wanted her to have an hour the following week. I told her that her daughter might get bored, but we could give it a try, and that I would stop if her daughter lost interest. The kid did the entire hour and wanted to keep skating afterwards! We covered a lot of ground in that lesson, and I was truly surprised that it worked out so well, but I think that particular child was just ready to move on in a lot of skills at that point, so it happened to work. In general, I am reluctant to do more than 30 minutes with a child.

[beachbabe]

I think i may have mentioned this on some other thread, but in my case any lesson more than 30 min's tends to become more of an assisted practice. I find that with private lessons, I benefit from getting the attention, but mostly from the practice i get afterwards. By the time my coach tests me next time, the skills usually needs just some minor adjustments. Even for jumps, more than 30 mins working on a jump just makes me tired and frustrated if I'm not landing it. Btter more short lessons, than 1 long one.

[Alicia]

but in my case any lesson more than 30 min's tends to become more of an assisted practice.

I give my 6-year-old daughter 2-120 minute long privates/ week. It's not that difficult at the pubic arena and the times are convenient. Also, I see her practice elements by copying experience skaters as a parent that coaches do not see!!

It's amazing how fast they pick things up. The coaches refine the elements at group practice. Most are amazed at what she can do.

The difficulty is:

1. Because of the length, she loves to take frequent breaks and during her breakes I push her backwards and she practices backward elements while I hold her hands and skate forward. This is hard on my back.

2. I do not know how to skate well so her jumps are just from memory.

3. Sometimes it's crowded and I guess there is a chance for collision. Especially when you get one of those loose canons that want to blast around the rink backwards. Luckily, those guys tire out quickly.

4. After an hour the rotation of the rink changes from ccw to cw. It's an adjustment.

5. Public skating ends this week.

6. She's getting sick of 'time with Dad' and wants her coach back!!

[twokidsskatemom]

I give my 6-year-old daughter 2-120 minute long privates/ week. It's not that difficult at the pubic arena and the times are convenient. Also, I see her practice elements by copying experience skaters as a parent that coaches do not see!!

It's amazing how fast they pick things up. The coaches refine the elements at group practice. Most are amazed at what she can do.

The difficulty is:

1. Because of the length, she loves to take frequent breaks and during her breakes I push her backwards and she practices backward elements while I hold her hands and skate forward. This is hard on my back.

2. I do not know how to skate well so her jumps are just from memory.

3. Sometimes it's crowded and I guess there is a chance for collision. Especially when you get one of those loose canons that want to blast around the rink backwards. Luckily, those guys tire out quickly.

4. After an hour the rotation of the rink changes from ccw to cw. It's an adjustment.

5. Public skating ends this week.

6. She's getting sick of 'time with Dad' and wants her coach back!!

If you arent a coach, Im not sure how you can give her 4 hours of lessons a week. Coaches coach, parents watch and support.
Watching other skaters can lead to bad habits later.As said before unless she is 6 and has her axle, she is no different than lots of other kids.

[Alicia]

My daughter and I worked on her competition routine together! After I had finished it on paper, we practiced it and she suggested some good changes.

Then, at group, the little ones were to perform there routine. The first little girl did a routine. Then the next did the same routine. The third did the same routine.

Alicia was fourth and the coach told her to try and copy the previous routines. Alicia replied, "No, I have my own." and did her own routine. The coaches were surprised (because she's usually quite lethargic during group) and offered to her suggestions to improve the routine. At this last lesson she was litterly a ball of energy. Even when everyone was listening to a coach, she was jumping up and down on two feet trying to control her excitement!!

She also front loaded the routine with jumps and rear loaded the routine with backward elements (her idea) that included a backward leg drag and spiral where she holds onto her skate blade. These elements are not in the other's routine and she learned them from more advanced skaters.

Because I not only helped her design but also create her routine from a list of elements in her portfollio, I would consider that makes me her coach!! It's also sort of fun and fulfilling.

[doubletoe]

The lower the level of the skater, the fewer elements she will be practicing, so anything over 20 minutes of instruction at a time is really pointless. As others have suggested, it's practicing on her own outside of the lessons that will make your daughter a better skater and prepare her to learn something new in her next lesson. Honestly, two 15-minute lessons per week should be all she needs at this stage. Just make sure she practices at least 45 minutes for every 15 minutes of lesson time.

[Alicia]

It just makes you wonder... after I terminated private lessons (15min/week) and took on the task myself with 2-2hr public skates/week for the last 5 months, my daughter has superceded in all the easier elements. And we get to have fun together (except for my sore back).

My thought is that skating is jumps and jumps alone- everything else will come. Thus, the main focus for private lessons by coaches should be jumps.

Just look at the gold at the womens worlds. Yes, she had mediocre spirals and spins, but the triple-triple took gold. Everything else is just fluf.

I cannot teach jumps but I can teach a 6-year-old balance for spirals or leg drags. I can even correct their spin. All I need a private lessons (PL) from a coach is for jumps!! And the second post has the correct formula.

It mindboggles me why 4, 5 and 6 year-olds have so many PL just to learn to skate when they pick it up just having fun on the ice!!

[twokidsskatemom]

oh please Go to flipping ebay and buy yourself a clue.!!!

Im sorry to the other posters but......... dont flatter yourself a coach !!:giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup:

[litigator]

"Alicia"......--I just choked on my coffee.:frus:

Because I not only helped her design but also create her routine from a list of elements in her portfollio, I would consider that makes me her coach!!

Oh brother. Its like the self-represented people who fancy themselves paralegals, law students and lawyers:roll: :lol:

Ever heard the expression a little bit of knowledge is dangerous:?:

Seriously, with all due respect, this is exactly the sort of parent none of the rest of us ever want to see at the rink, let alone coach a child of.:roll:

[Alicia]

If you saw me at the rink, I would be the quite one in the back taking notes!!

[Isk8NYC]

She's getting sick of 'time with Dad' and wants her coach back!!

Can't imagine why.

[Alicia]

She loves copying elements and the coach can do things that I cannot even imagine. He taught her to jump over a river that he drew on the ice. He is also a good spinner.

But what she needs now is a full loop- and for that I'll bring him back and I'll use the formula on post number 2.

BTW, I haven't asked her, but I bet it wasn't her idea to take privates again!!

[twokidsskatemom]

It just makes you wonder... after I terminated private lessons (15min/week) and took on the task myself with 2-2hr public skates/week for the last 5 months, my daughter has superceded in all the easier elements. And we get to have fun together (except for my sore back).

My thought is that skating is jumps and jumps alone- everything else will come. Thus, the main focus for private lessons by coaches should be jumps.

Just look at the gold at the womens worlds. Yes, she had mediocre spirals and spins, but the triple-triple took gold. Everything else is just fluf.

I cannot teach jumps but I can teach a 6-year-old balance for spirals or leg drags. I can even correct their spin. All I need a private lessons (PL) from a coach is for jumps!! And the second post has the correct formula.

It mindboggles me why 4, 5 and 6 year-olds have so many PL just to learn to skate when they pick it up just having fun on the ice!!

How pray tell do you know how to correct a spin?
Anyone can do a waltz jump, catch spiral, or a lunge, which is what I guess you mean by leg drag.So what?
Your skater is the one who will have to have corrections cause by BAD habits.

[crayonskater]

Fundamentals -- those silly things like edges, and spirals -- are what lead to the ability to do triple-triples. You can ignore them, but even the second-tier elite skaters don't merely practice jumps. Having solid edges is what allows Kimmie Meissner to land those triple-triples.

And you can't practice backward elements by having someone push you -- it's certainly fun for bonding and fooling around, but you can't be seriously attempting a loop if you can't skate backwards yet.

On the original topic, your skater is relatively low level, no? In any case, if she wants an hour of lessons per week, it might be better to divide it up into two half-hour sessions, so both half hours still 'stick' in her head. I find with myself, practicing about 8 hours a week, that I do half an hour of instruction and the rest of the time is better spent practicing.

[Alicia]

Having solid edges is what allows Kimmie Meissner to land those triple-triples.

I disagree. I believe all in the world competition have solid edges. Speed, height, strength, stamina and good coaching allows Kimmie Meissner to land those triple-triples.

Which put us right back to post #2!!

[Lmarletto]

Well, this has certainly gotten interesting!;)

But thanks to Clarice and twokidsskatemom for pointing me in the right direction for that formula. I guess I just assumed such sensible advice must have come from this board, lol.

[frvanilla]

I disagree. I believe all in the world competition have solid edges.
No, just "listen" to Sasha's back crosscut.

[beachbabe]

well, even if you don't concider them important. you still have to pass MIF tests, so might aswell learn it. Its tought to learn jumps safely if you don't have good edge control. This is why I hear tons of toepicks on jump landings and painful falls from skaters who have poor instruction on edges.

skating is as much artistry and control as it is jumps, although for higher level skaters i agree that jumps are probably their main focus, but thats because they learned their MIF long ago and simply maintain their skills. If you are not jumping triples, learning freestlye elemnets hould balance with good MIF.

[dbny]

oh please Go to flipping ebay and buy yourself a clue.!!!

Im sorry to the other posters but......... dont flatter yourself a coach !!:giveup: :giveup: :giveup: :giveup:

LOL, literally! Good thing I wasn't having a sip of something, or I would have spit it all over my keyboard & monitor. :bow: :bow: :bow:

[crayonskater]

I disagree. I believe all in the world competition have solid edges. Speed, height, strength, stamina and good coaching allows Kimmie Meissner to land those triple-triples.

Which put us right back to post #2!!


Not really. Meissner isn't a terribly fast or high jumper. She has good coaching and good jump technique and strong edges. Strong edges allow you to get more power out of a stroke.

But look, it's not like 'good coaching' consists of someone saying 'here's how to do a triple' and going and practicing it. To land that triple-triple requires good spins, because a triple is just a spin in the air. And to compete at that level requires passing the Moves tests, which requires getting coached in them.

None of that is here or there, really. Your daughter is six, and singles are easy to do even with lousy technique, so do what you want. But it's a mistake to think that because jumps are important on an international level, that just hiring a jump coach is what you need. Hockey players have speed and strength and stamina, but they're not going to land triples any time soon.

But the original poster asked for how many lessons her kid should get, and describing what you're doing as coaching is inaccurate. Your daughter isn't getting four hours of private instruction a week; she's having guided practices with Dad and (it seems) occasional group lessons and imitating bigger skaters.

It's like saying to a newbie marathoner that you workout for four hours a day, when you spend two of them in the car travelling to your gym.

[twokidsskatemom]

I just thought of something............ She has to hold onto your arm to skate backwards?Oh Please please please stop. I feel sorry for your skater now.
I cant tell if you really think you are doing a great job or if you are pulling our leg.
Skating is lot more than jumps!!!

[dbny]

I cant tell if you really think you are doing a great job or if you are pulling our leg.


Has anyone else thought that Alicia might be a troll? I'm going to stop feeding it.

[Isk8NYC]

Not a troll, per se because he's not insulting anyone. If he did, I would have banned him a long time ago. This MAN just wants to stir up trouble by making outrageous statements and causing controversy.

I wonder what would happen if the consulting firm he works for finds out that he uses company or client resources to play this foolish game? Maybe it's an office game that the Engineering organization he belongs to wouldn't appreciate?

May I suggest that everyone just ignore the creep. Don't reply, don't answer, don't QUOTE. Then he'll get bored and wander off.

[LIskate]

Getting back to the original topic of this discussion.
My daughter started taking a 60 minute private two weeks ago.
She really likes the longer lesson. They are able to get so much more accopmlished in that lesson than her 30 minute. The 60 minute is during a freestyle session, where as the 30 minute is during a public session. That also probably has a effect on the productivness of the lesson as well.
So far there have been no signs of her loosing focus, or getting tired during the lesson. The hour actually goes pretty fast. What I have noticed is her coach is able to spend more time on each thing making sure she understands the proper technique, and has a good understanding of how she needs to practice each element.
That said after school ends I may divide that lesson into 2 30min lessons. I do understand and agree with the resoning behind more short lessons being better than one long one. However for now the 60 minute seems to work well for her.

[Alicia]

Then he'll get bored and wander off.

Your right. Moderator, please remove my log in. I learned the type of people that I would have to deal with if I pursued figure skating for my daughter and it is a sport that she will not take part in.

[phoenix]

Geez, I guess that $80 an hour I pay my ice dance coach is a complete waste--as I should be able to figure all that "fluff" edge stuff out on my own......:roll:

Come to that, why do any of those elite dancers have coaches?? There's no technique to skating beyond the jumps, so what's up with that??

ITA w/ the poster who spit coffee all over their keyboard.....how could anyone be so ..... I'll use the word "misinformed" in an effort to keep it civil......:!:

[Bothcoasts]

Getting back to the original topic of this discussion.
My daughter started taking a 60 minute private two weeks ago.
She really likes the longer lesson. They are able to get so much more accopmlished in that lesson than her 30 minute.

Glad to hear that your daughter's enjoying the longer lesson!

I keep thinking about how much of finding the appropriate length for lessons depends on the individual personality, make-up and goals of the student. A few weeks ago, I acquired a 5-year-old skater whose (family's?) goals are to pass pre-alpha this session after having spent three sessions in it. This is a boy who has trouble paying attention and concentrating in group lessons, even though he loves practicing. Such students can often be a challenge to work with!

As it turns out, I'm having a blast with this particular student. We have a lot of fun together, and after five thirty-minute lessons, he's more than ready to pass (making for one happy coach!). Because I know that his attention span is short, I break up practicing elements with lots of rewards ("Skate one time around the rink as fast as you can!") and challenges ("Do you think you can do back swizzles all the way around the rink? I don't know if you can!"). Doing so has worked well.

I was surprised to see that privates have worked out so well for a little boy who cannot concentrate in group lessons. For me, though, I'm even happier to see that he genuinely loves coming to skating and has asked his mother if he can continue lessons! :lol:

[twokidsskatemom]

Glad to hear that your daughter's enjoying the longer lesson!

I keep thinking about how much of finding the appropriate length for lessons depends on the individual personality, make-up and goals of the student. A few weeks ago, I acquired a 5-year-old skater whose (family's?) goals are to pass pre-alpha this session after having spent three sessions in it. This is a boy who has trouble paying attention and concentrating in group lessons, even though he loves practicing. Such students can often be a challenge to work with!

As it turns out, I'm having a blast with this particular student. We have a lot of fun together, and after five thirty-minute lessons, he's more than ready to pass (making for one happy coach!). Because I know that his attention span is short, I break up practicing elements with lots of rewards ("Skate one time around the rink as fast as you can!") and challenges ("Do you think you can do back swizzles all the way around the rink? I don't know if you can!"). Doing so has worked well.

I was surprised to see that privates have worked out so well for a little boy who cannot concentrate in group lessons. For me, though, I'm even happier to see that he genuinely loves coming to skating and has asked his mother if he can continue lessons! :lol:

One of the reasons to have privates early is that it is easier for some kids. I know for my son, privates have his attention span alot longer than a group lesson.In groups, he gets bored easy and just wants to skate.

[Isk8NYC]

Your right. Moderator, please remove my log in. I learned the type of people that I would have to deal with if I pursued figure skating for my daughter and it is a sport that she will not take part in.

Per your request, log in removed.

[dbny]

This MAN just wants to stir up trouble by making outrageous statements and causing controversy.

That is actually one of the definitions of a web troll. Anyway, glad to see he's gone, and thanks for helping his exit!