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Lmarletto
03-20-2006, 09:50 PM
My daughter is 8yo, in FS4 and has just passed pre-pre moves. She has been taking dance lessons for about 6mo with no testing in sight. My impression is that it's moving a lot more slowly than her freestyle/moves and that her dance coach is not as focussed as her freestyle/moves coach. I'd be interested in hearing other people's experiences with how young skaters progress through the beginning dances. I'd always heard that the preliminary dances were "easy".

Mrs Redboots
03-21-2006, 06:05 AM
In many ways, dance is actually the more difficult discipline, far more "fussy" than free skating - every edge has to be just so, the free leg extended just so, the toe pointed, etc etc etc. It can take a long time to get a given compulsory dance to test standard.

Having said that, it is possible that your daughter's dance coach doesn't appreciate that you expect her to test - maybe it's worth asking her what sort of timetable she has in mind?

phoenix
03-21-2006, 07:06 AM
Also the patterns have to be correct, and fill out the whole rink--is she strong enough yet to do that? That's one of the main reasons really little kids can't test dance right away....

Isk8NYC
03-21-2006, 08:30 AM
By "FS4" do you mean ISI Freestyle or USFSA Freeskate? ISI can be tested at any time.

If USFSA: Have any test sessions passed that offered Dance tests?
Sometimes dance judges are hard to come by, so a Club might schedule only 1 or 2 Dance test sessions.

Ask the coach!

Lenny2
03-21-2006, 01:17 PM
After six months, she should be ready to take the first three (preliminary) dances, assuming she has had one or two dance lessons (half hour or so each) every week during that time. Like the pre-pre moves test, the judges are very easy on the early dance tests. They get much more difficult as the skater progresses.

Kelli
03-21-2006, 01:30 PM
I take a group dance class with some kids who are about the FS4/5 level (but they haven't passed any moves, so huge difference there), and after 3 or 4 months, they still have a ways to go before they'll be ready for the prelim dance test. Granted this is a group class and, like I said, they haven't tested any moves. But the girls are older than your daughter - middle school age, and with dance I'd think that would be an advantage. So long story short, at her level it might take a while to get through the beginning dances.

What about the coach's other students? How do they look? Any of them tested recently? And more importantly, has your daugher's skating improved and is she enjoying her lessons?

phoenix
03-21-2006, 01:59 PM
Also, how much does she practice her dances in between times? How is she at keeping time w/ the music?

Lots of variables, as you can see. I'd talk to her coach & see what the plan is.

Perry
03-21-2006, 06:01 PM
While eight years old can seem relatively late to start skating, it's actually quite early to start dance. I started dance when I was 7, and I was one of the youngest ones. Most kids wait until they get fairly fr in their fieldmoves and then start dance, or else start it when they start needing to work on presentation for freestyle (intermediate or novice). Thekids who start dance late can get through preliminary-silver in as few as three test sessions -- some (who start in their late teens) even get to their gold in a year. You daughter will NOT progress this fast (she'll probably go much slower than everyone else at rink, unless your rink has a very good dance program and starts kids early), simply because she hasn't developed the edging, expression, and timing yet. It's possible that her coach is waiting to test because she wants to make sure she's mastered the basics (which you really don't need to do on the first few tests) before she continues on.

Like I said, I started when I was seven, and didn't get my gold until I was sixteen (though really, I was one test away when I got injured at 13 had to take two years off). Without the injury, that's still 6-7 years, and I already had an axel and a double sal (or was close -- I don't remember) by the time I started dance. Younger dancers, beyond just the undeveloped timing and edging that comes with edge and experience, have unique problems with expression. First off, it simply takes maturity to develop expression. Second, even when the expression is there, dance is very much a discipline of appearances -- I failed at least two dances simply because I "looked too young" (People who know dance will appreciate this -- I was nine or ten when I tested the Blues, and about 4'4" and maybe 60-75 pounds. My coach and I were going over the criteria listed in the Rulebook, one of which is "sensual expression" and I had to ask her what the word meant!)

Of course, you haven't encountered most of this yet, and I realize a lot of it doesn't pertain to your immediate situation (I tend to rant), but you need to be prepared for the reality that your daughter won't progress as fast as older or more experienced (in terms of moves and freestyle) dancers. Of course, the payoof of starting her young is immeasurable. One of the girls at our rink got through all the compulsory dances in abot two years, but can't, even with lots of time and work, pass any internationals, because she never developed the posture for dance (and on the internationals, it's enough jsut to have to think about your feet). Even if she ends up just doing freestyle, dance will help a lot. As for the tests, my best advice is just to talk to the coach. She may not know how anxious you are for her to test, or you daughter may actually not be ready yet. Either way, none of us can really tell without seeing her.

Lmarletto
03-21-2006, 09:10 PM
In response to some of the questions - she's in USFS FS4, there are plenty of test sessions here, practically everyone tests their dances and 7-8yo are not unusual at the prelim tests. I can see that power is an issue for her. If her posture and technique look good, the pattern is too small, but when she pushes to fill the rink, the skating is much messier.

I guess what is really worrying me is that her coach has very little to say about how she's doing, what looks good, what is holding her back. And I don't really see any evidence during her lesson that specific issues are being addressed. It's just such a contrast with her freestyle/moves coach who always has something to say about the day's lesson, progress in recent weeks, the plan for the next lesson and goals for the next few weeks. And I can see steady progress in freestyle/moves.

I do need to talk to her dance coach. I just need to think about how to phrase my concerns.

cassarilda
03-21-2006, 09:23 PM
I do need to talk to her dance coach. I just need to think about how to phrase my concerns.


Short and sweet... just talk to her and say that you think a little bit more feedback on her progress and any problems etc, would be helpful, so you all know how she is progressing...

:)

twokidsskatemom
03-21-2006, 09:31 PM
I would ask the dance coach what the goals are for your daughter.
My skater is 6. almost 7 ISI 4, and talking her moves/fs for pre pre and her dutch waltz and canasta tango next month.She would have tested last year but we only have a few test sessions up here. We even have to drive 400 miles for her to test, as our club isnt having any this year.
Maybe the dance coach has a plan, I know I would double check.

CanAmSk8ter
03-22-2006, 10:18 AM
Some coaches are conservative about putting up Prelim and Pre-Bronze dances too early because they know that while most skaters can get by with iffy skating on those tests, after that they cannot. I've known several skaters, including myself, who got through the first six dances quickly (under two years, in my case, starting at FS 1 and ending the same test session where I took my PPM) and then got stuck on the Bronze.

Not many seven- and eight-year-olds have the body awareness to do dance *well*, and even fewer have the ability to really do the dances with the correct timing. Because they're only partnering on the low tests and don't have to solo, they can get away with not having this down pat, but it will come back to haunt them later. I know one girl who failed her European twice back when Pre-Silver required a solo, and both times she skated it beautifully. Unfortunately, both times she also did her entire solo on the weak beat.

Six months sounds to me like an awfully short amount of time for an eight-year-old FS4 to be ready to take USFS dance tests. At the same time, I think it's entirely possible that your daughter could be close to the point where she would "squeak through" her first couple of dances. I'm wondering if her coach, like mine, doesn't like having skaters test until he's absolutely sure they're ready. Maybe she's making the kind of mistakes that *most* judges expect and forgive on a Preliminary test, but her coach doesn't want to risk getting a stricter-than-usual judge, or even just a non-local judge who's not familiar with what's generally passable and what's not in your area. Or maybe he just wants to push her to improve her basics now rather than later, when she's working on dances that will fail for the occasional early step and the odd toepick-push.

If I'm remembering correctly that you skate, too, I'd highly recommend some dance lessons for yourself. It will help make the whole thing less mystifying- and believe me, to the uninitiated, dance only gets more mystifying as you go along ;) !

litigator
03-22-2006, 11:24 AM
not sure if this might apply, but mine was held back (though taught the dances) for a long period of time simply because the coaches thought she had an aptitude for dance (good knees, -whatever this means), off ice dance background,and charisma...

and we're really happy they had the foresight to do that, because way too many potential lovely young dancers are no longer suitable for partnering because they are so far ahead in the dances than the boys, or for that matter,what they should be competing in...

sigh..if only she could get the timing right...never saw a kid who just totally has the ability to dance to the wrong beat on different occasions (lots of the time-trouble is, her partner never counts either)....giggle (she's doing provincials dance pairs, remember)