Brackets Without Edges

[dbny]

Novice Spirals' sig line "Can you do a bracket without an edge into it or out of it?" has impelled me to start this thread. In roller dance, there is a sequence in the Carroll Tango (don't believe you have it on ice), which we called "flats" (as no edge was employed), that were the same as the Novice bracket move. Since the definition of brackets, and all one foot turns for that matter, depends on the entrance and exit edges and the rotation relative to the entrance edge, how can these turns legitimately be brackets? I asked my former coach and she responded with something that I don't remember because it didn't make sense. If this is just a convention, I get that, but I am interested to hear if there is a real technical explanation.

[luna_skater]

Since the definition of brackets, and all one foot turns for that matter, depends on the entrance and exit edges and the rotation relative to the entrance edge, how can these turns legitimately be brackets?

Interestingly, in synchro, they aren't. With the implementation of the new judging system, "brackets" that are not done with clear lobes, i.e., more like figures brackets, do not get credit. It drives us crazy to see these "flat" brackets get credit in singles (along with a lot of other steps), but not in synchro.

[Rusty Blades]

I'm with dbny! I can't comprehend a bracket (or any turn) "on the flat" ??????

[phoenix]

You still turn off an edge of the blade, it's just not that visible because you don't hold that edge long enough to let it become a curve in your pattern. You're not actually doing the turn while on a true "flat", ie both edges on the ice. You can see it if you look at the tracings.

[dbny]

You still turn off an edge of the blade, it's just not that visible because you don't hold that edge long enough to let it become a curve in your pattern. You're not actually doing the turn while on a true "flat", ie both edges on the ice. You can see it if you look at the tracings.

And yet I've never seen a judge examine the tracings on a Novice MIF test. In roller dance, we used to practice them on a line (very thin line, with the wheels on either side of it), and they were definitely flat.

[techskater]

I am currently working on this test. There is a slight edge in and out of each turn on the B-3-B but not deep and really curvy like the brackets in the field on Intermediate. I look at my tracing and my training partner's and they both have edges in and out of each part. The kid who passed his Novice moves on Friday at our rink (0.9 OVER on the test. WOW!!) also had slight edges in and out.

[dbny]

Phoenix & Techskater: Thank you!

[lovepairs]

When I do a bracket on a flat, which I constantly get yelled at for, by the way, the bracket has this skid to it. When I do them coming in and out of a true edge, they are nice and clean and pretty!:P