Why Knee Pads: A Rant

[dbny]

I just read another post in which a skater said she will not wear knee pads because she does not want to get used to having a security blanket. It really rubbed me the wrong way. There is an implied put down in the term "security blanket". Give it some thought, where does the term come from?

Wearing knee pads has nothing to do with security blankets. It has everything to do with preventing serious damage to my knees. For anyone who has had previous damage, or is of an age at which damage is more easily done, knee pads are just common sense. Would you rather wear knee pads or a cast?

If you are not in that category, then maybe you would feel that you were using knee pads as a security blanket, but please do not generalize to the rest of us. No need to rush to the defense here, I just wanted to get it off my chest once and for all. I'm not singling anyone out, as I know from previous discussions that many of you feel that way.

[jazzpants]

I just read another post in which a skater said she will not wear knee pads because she does not want to get used to having a security blanket. It really rubbed me the wrong way. There is an implied put down in the term "security blanket". Give it some thought, where does the term come from?

Wearing knee pads has nothing to do with security blankets. It has everything to do with preventing serious damage to my knees. For anyone who has had previous damage, or is of an age at which damage is more easily done, knee pads are just common sense. Would you rather wear knee pads or a cast?

If you are not in that category, then maybe you would feel that you were using knee pads as a security blanket, but please do not generalize to the rest of us. No need to rush to the defense here, I just wanted to get it off my chest once and for all. I'm not singling anyone out, as I know from previous discussions that many of you feel that way.For the longest time, I wouldn't take off my kneepad until the secondary coach told me that I am no longer allowed to wear knee pads to my lesson. 8O (Her train of thought is that knee pads gets in the way of your knee bend, which actually encourage a fall on the knee by tripping on your toe picks...)

Haven't worn them since and I'm doing everything possible to keep those knees bent when needed. So far so good! My falls have been mostly on my butt...lots of "internal security blanket" there! :lol:

[sue123]

I have no problem if people want to wear knee pads, to each his own. But not all knee injuries can be prevented from knee pads. A lot of ligament injuries occur from twisting the knee the wrong way and a knee pad won't be able to prevent that. That said, I don't wear knee pads because it never occured to me to. I've had my fair share of bruises on my knees (have a couple right now) but then again, I'm 20 years old, and I think I'm still in the phase of thinking I'm invincible. Even though rationally I know it's not true, and I have dislocated my knee while on the ice, I still tend to think serious injuries won't really happen to me.

Then again, we have some older skaters at our rink and beginners who wear knee pads. Whatever you need to get you moving seems to be fine by me. Considering most people are just couch potatos, if it takes knee pads to get exercise and enjoying it, what's the problem?

[dbny]

But not all knee injuries can be prevented from knee pads. A lot of ligament injuries occur from twisting the knee the wrong way and a knee pad won't be able to prevent that.

Too true. I've never had a twisting injury, but I've whacked my knees so much that I have intermittant pain on and off the ice. I missed a year of skating as a kid because of bursitis in my knee. That was my parents' decision, though! The older I get, the more people I know who have serious knee problems, several requiring joint replacements.

I still tend to think serious injuries won't really happen to me.

I think it's hard to skate or do any sport with some degree of risk without holding on to that feeling. DH and I used to downhill ski, and never thought about the risk of injury, at least not on the slopes - I hated the chairlifts and once barely missed being in an accident on one.

For the longest time, I wouldn't take off my kneepad until the secondary coach told me that I am no longer allowed to wear knee pads to my lesson. (Her train of thought is that knee pads gets in the way of your knee bend, which actually encourage a fall on the knee by tripping on your toe picks...).

I've always worn knee pads (at least since the first time I caught my toepick :lol:), and my coach has never commented on them at all, nor have they ever affected my knee bend. It's easy to test/demo knee bend, so I know there is no problem. If there were, I might be motivated to spring for the $70 to get the skating safe gel pads. I would really rather not wear any knee pads, but with my knee history and age, can't take the chance.

[luna_skater]

dbny, I'm curious if you compete, and if so, do you wear your kneepads to compete?

I think there are two valid sides to this discussion, and both depend on what purpose the kneepads are serving. I think it's totally rational to wear kneepads to prevent injury and/or serious long-term damage. Most of my spills are taken on my knees, and they leave nasty buises for a long time. In your case, I don't think it is a "security blanket" issue.

However, some people wear kneepads/gelpads/padded shorts, etc., with the intention of only using them learn a certain move, and then stop using them, eg., a difficult jump. I think those are the cases where some people are reluctant to use padding because they think they will become mentally dependent on it. The same thing can happen with using the harness to learn a jump. You get it in the harness, then have a difficult time trying to do it without.

I don't know the origin of the discussion that prompted this thread, but I suspect the poster who made the security blanket comment may have been thinking of it more in terms of my latter example.

[sexyskates]

I always wear my knee pads for practice and I don't feel them at all. I have no problem skating without them for competition either. It's just that I know so many people who have fractured a knee cap, that after my first toe pick trip as a beginner (and man did my knee swell up - could barely walk for a week), I don't even want to go there. Knees take forever to heal once you are an adult. Getting injured during practice is a total waste, so go ahead and wrap up whatever part of your body is a weak link.

[Mrs Redboots]

I think that if you can take your kneepads off when you need to - for tests or competitions, for example - then that's fine. It's when you skate badly without them that a problem arises (and some skaters find that wearing or not wearing gloves, or even nail polish, can put them off!).

It's less likely to arise for free skaters now, since the rule change that says women can compete in trousers, so I expect they could wear their kneepads under their trousers. But it's still an issue for dancers, who must wear a dress.

I do know one adult skater, about the same age as DBNY, who always wears kneepads for practice, but she is happy to leave them off when competing. In which case, that's very sensible!

I don't think I could, and anyway, I don't bend my knees enough even without kneepads! Sometimes my knees get very sore and I have to wear a support bandage, and that's quite bad enough (thankfully, less so now I've lost weight).

[Petlover]

At 50+, I wear gel knee pads and roller blade hard plastic wrist guards except when I compete. Actually, I don't notice them gone when I compete, so there is no difference in my skating. I always wear them otherwise because I want to enjoy my skating and not be afraid of hurting my knees or breaking my arm and wrist. It's right for me. That DOES NOT mean it's right for anyone else, this is something that is personal to every skater.

[TashaKat]

I don't have a problem with people wearing whatever protection they want. I never wore them for skating though did wear them for 'street jazz' as we did lots of 'falls' and things which were very painful if you got them wrong 8O

It's one of the strange things about skating, anyone wearing protection whether it be a helmet, knee pads or whatever is seen as 'weird' or a 'wuss'. What about pairs skaters? Why is it acceptable to risk serious injury but unacceptable to wear protection to your head?

There's a similar argument going on in 'showing' (horses) in this country at the moment. The die hard traditionalists don't want have to wear safety helmets as they don't like the 'look' of the helmets that stop their heads from cracking like an egg when they hit the ground from on top of a horse. they DO wear a helmet but it doesn't have a chin strap and has very little protection to their skulls in the event of a fall.

I will fully admit that I subscribed to the 'vanity' of skating and didn't wear protection ... and still wouldn't (dumb eh? must be that crack on the skull ;) ) even though I fractured my skull skating and my wrist.

I think, personally, the 'problem' comes because skating is an art form as well as a sport. I do like to see the outfits, I do like to wear the outfits, I like the beauty and the grace. Maybe it will change in time. In the meantime wear whatever gets you out there and wear what you feel comfortable with.

[figure_skater]

i think that its all mental.
like what a skater thinks helps them they wouldnt want to take away, expecially at a competition.
some people could get glued to their kneepads, some it is a necklace, or for me, i have to always do my nails the day before a competition. always.
those people (with the kneepads) just need to realize that they dont NEED them to skate well.

i do however think you should wear kneepads to protect your knees, but i find that i also dont get as much bend and then i can do some moves as well. (ex: sit spins)

but i think it should be more up to personall preference.

[dbny]

dbny, I'm curious if you compete, and if so, do you wear your kneepads to compete?

I don't compete, but I do wear them for testing. I cut an old pair of tights to make sleeves to cover them with, and that made them pretty invisible. I did not wear them on two occasions. Once, when I was skating (with a lot of other skaters) in a TV commercial (never made it to the air), and once when I was costumed for a show. All I did on the ice that time was skate out to take my place in a line at the end, with a nice T stop. DH, who also wears knee pads, did not wear his when assisting with a show one time. Of course, some little kid darted right in front of him and he whacked both knees good in avoiding clobbering the little brat (I say "brat" because that kid was out of place!).

[mikawendy]

dbny, I also wear knee pads when I practice (the older, non-gel version of the SkatingSafe pads). I started after I had one really nasty toepick fall that kept me off the ice for 1 month because of the pain and range of motion limitation that the fall caused me (and then the knee was still tender for another month after that). Since then, my pads have saved me from other injuries like this. I don't fall directly on my knees often, but my knees are already so "crunchy" that bruising them and the like from a direct fall onto them would take me out of commission for longer than I'm willing to chance, as the amount of time I can put into practicing is already limited. I find a fall onto a knee is more painful for me and harder to recover from than a fall on the butt or even the hipbone. One time, I fell forward onto both knees and was not hurt because of my knee pads. I'm not expecting them to save me from twisting injuries.

I have not competed or tested with the pads on, but when I was with a former coach, the coach was willing to let me take a moves test with them on. I decided on my own that I wasn't going to wear them for the test. When it comes time for a test or competition, I find I don't even notice that the pads aren't there--I'm so busy concentrating on my elements or patterns and dealing with nerves that I'm not even thinking about the pads. So, for me, I don't regard the pads as a crutch, and no coach has never asked me to take them off during practice. I know other posters as well as other skaters and coaches may have differing opinions about knee pads, but that's not going to change what I decide about them.

[sk8pics]

I wear my kneepads for routine practice and lessons, but I don't wear them when I compete and sometimes I don't wear them for competition practices. My thinking is that they protect me from everyday stupid stuff and when learning new things. When I am at a competition or test I am always comfortable with what I'm doing, so I don't think as much about needing kneepads. It's a matter of the most reasonable protection for me, IMO. My coaches have never told me not to wear them, and in fact they seem to think it's a good idea and like the kneepads i have (the skatingsafe gel kneepads).

[Perry]

When I was little and learning my axel, I wore a butt pad. I did start using it as a security blanket (to a child, skating is less of a mental thing -- I was only 6, so I needed to feel the pain from falling), and as soon as I ditched the butt pad (by then, hough, I was fully capable of landing the jump, so I wasn't going to take any truly bad falls except freak accidents), I started landing the jump.

These days, I only wear one knee pad when I'm normally practicing, a incredibly thin (it's similar to the material used for mouse pads) donut shaped one right below my right knee. I permanantly dmaanged the tissue there on brackets (when the hard ones used to be on intermediate), so it hurts about 50X more to fall there. Even that, though, I don't always wear. If I'm working on triple sals and having an off-day (meaning I'm falling on the top of my knee), I'll wear a gel pad just for then. It's mainly just laziness, though, because if you're practicing hard and skating a lot, knee pads slip around, and constantly having to adjust them is incredibly annoying (and doesn't really work in the middle of a program).

[blisspix]

I don't wear knee pads because I never have, but I'm sure as I get older I will get some bunga-style ones.

The reason is that the year before I started skating, 14 years ago now, I had surgery for a tumor in my knee (benign). It caused damage to my knee, messed up the cartilage, and all sorts of nasty stuff had to be cut out. Luckily, the tumor was on the inside of my left knee, and when I fall I tend to fall on the outside of my left knee or the inside of my right knee, so I that does make a difference in that I am not falling on it.

I am not sure of the overall security of my knee. Most of the time it is fine, now and then it aches. I am not sure if a knee pad would help much right now, but as the cartilage is not as good as it should be, I will probably invest in a stabilising silicone knee pad at some point.

I don't see knee pads as being any different from other kinds of protective gear - plenty of elite skaters wear knee braces, and many have the bunga ankle protectors. The only difference of course is that knee pads are a bit more visible than ankle guards :)

[EastonSkater]

I reckon that people should do whatever works for them. If somebody wants to wear knee pads, helmets etc, then it's fantastic. I think it's stupid how somebody coins them as security blankets or says it puts the physics a little bit out......because people are adaptable. If somebody gets used to skating with knee pads etc during practice and then removes them for competition, then it just becomes a normal thing. For those that have trouble using knee pads, then don't use them. For those that don't have trouble, then use them. And for those people that think that just because they can't handle using knee pads, then don't think that everybody else has the same thinking and limitation as you. Because....people are adaptable.

[stardust skies]

I just read another post in which a skater said she will not wear knee pads because she does not want to get used to having a security blanket. It really rubbed me the wrong way. There is an implied put down in the term "security blanket". Give it some thought, where does the term come from?


I didn't read the post you are commenting about, but...if someone *else* is saying they won't wear pads because they feel it'd be a security blanket, I assume they mean it would be FOR THEM, not for everyone.

I personally never wore pads. All of my friends layered 3 hip crash pads (waxel pads) when learning double axels, and I never did. I never wore a single pad, ever. I DO feel it's a security blanket. This is figure skating, you're gonna get hurt, you accept this before you even start. You're learning a double axel, you're gonna get hurt, you accept this before you even start. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't altering anything...to me if I wore pads for months (which turned out to be years..) while landing this thing, I would then have to deal with landing it after having removed all the pads. That'd be twice as much work to me, because your mind DOES become attached to the feeling of security of "well it doesn't matter cause I won't hurt myself", a lot like the harness. I've seen it happen. People land GREAT jumps with pads/harness, can't land them without. Didn't want it to be me, thankfully it wasn't. I was one of the last ones to get the jump, but I was one of the first to KEEP it consistent, while everyone struggled to ween themselves off pads and harnesses.

Does that mean I think badly upon the people who wear padding? No. I think it's mostly useless to them (and I'm not talking about older people, I guess I can understand that older people might be more prone to damage, although I still don't really get the concept of why a 40 year old is more brittle than a 16 year old for example, but I guess I will understand when I get there), but people can do whatever they want.

I think padding IS a security blanket, and it will only play with your mind later on. If others don't think that's true, or if they don't mind having a couple of knee pads control their skating, then that's their choice. But I don't see the harm in being against them for yourself, and how that could insult anybody. I'm against harnesses, too. I don't use them. Never have. People in the past generations had *gorgeous* jumps and never used them. So I don't see the need now. I liked learning everything the traditional way. I think the harness is a cop out. Cause you won't dare to try the jump on your own unless you have a cord stopping you from falling. It shows you don't believe in yourself. When I launch myself into a jump, I'm not thinking about minimizing the damage when I fall, I'm thinking I'm gonna land it. Even if I don't, trying to go and do all this preparation for a fall pretty much guarantees you will fall- it's in your head that way. Still doesn't mean I sit and think bad things about people who use all that stuff, though.

Anyways, just a bunch of (long) thoughts.

[tidesong]

Different people feel different ways, while some people have no problems skating with knee pads, some people might feel uncomfortable or lazy to use knee pads, some might feel they are a "security blanket" or whatever, some might think they are too expensive. Its just their own opinion about knee pads on themselves... as long as we know what we are doing within reason I dont see a problem with wearing or not wearing knee pads.

I personally wear them pretty much after a fall, I could order the more expensive slim knee pads online and try them out but I'm not too concerned and I bought these bulky ones to use when I'm desperate like I bruised my knee and dont want to fall directly on that knee for a while.

I have never really thought about them as a psychological issue for me, so I assume that theres no issue, apart from the hassle of putting them on and rearranging them through out practise.

[EastonSkater]

Knee pads and protective gear are not 'mental'. They can and do limit or prevent injury if your knee smacks onto the ice. If you got knee pads on and it smacks the ice, you just get up again as if nothing happened. Without knee pads and the knee smacks the ice, you might not be getting up again in a hurry.

Harnesses are used for safety, and they are an excellent aid for helping jumpers figure out roughly how their body should feel before going on their first solo flight.

Practising without harness or protective gear is old-school. New school is using sensible and smart techniques not only to learn, but to improve a lot over old-school.

[Perry]

Actually, I refuse to use the harness. To me, I learn to do a jump one way on the harness, and then have to completely relearn it off the harness (this, of course, might because we don't really have any harness experts at our rink, but part of it really is that the ropes and the belt to throw of our center of mass, etc. when you'r on it, which makes a big difference one triples). The harness helped on my doubles, but I haven't used it since double toe.

[aussieskater]

I have both the soft foam cycling pads and the skatingsafe ones, as my right knee is carrying a partially torn ACL and meniscus.

I use the foam ones pretty much only when synchro training, as I fall pretty regularly then - and generally forward (or on the hip - owie! :cry: ). Once I "customised" them by opening the elastic tube and replacing it with a velcro closure, it became much less of an issue when I put my skates on, having forgotten to put the pads on first!! I found they do affect knee bend as the elastic tube grabs behind the knee, but better that than the alternative :)

I pretty much use the skatingsafe ones only if my knees are sore or already bruised, as I find they're harder to put on properly, but much more successful when they're on. FWIW, I've found the skatingsafe ones to be much better at "disappearing" both visually and in relation to my skating than the others, but the downside is that (despite the claim on the packet), I *cannot* make them stay up with just 2 pairs of tights... :?? My solution was to place the pads so the top edge of the pads are just above the top of the patella, then use papertape around the bottom edges only (sort of like a semicircle of tape) to secure the pads to my skin. If you use tan tape rather than white and wear double tights, I guarantee the pads will disappear. Making sure that the tape doesn't extend high enough around the sides to interefere with the knee joint also means that you get full knee bend with no irritation, and you can't even feel the pads. Bliss. But this is a lot of fiddling around, so (lazy me), I tend not to bother unless something prods me to do it (like a dirty green bruise...) :D

[dbny]

Harnesses are used for safety, and they are an excellent aid for helping jumpers figure out roughly how their body should feel before going on their first solo flight.

Which is one reason Audrey Weisiger uses a harness for students working on quads. She did a presentation at one of the PSA conferences, and pointed out how the harness could prevent injury while learning quad jumps. Don't know if she advocates the harness for lesser jumps, but I wouldn't be surprised. Injuries keep skaters off the ice.

I'm not talking about older people, I guess I can understand that older people might be more prone to damage, although I still don't really get the concept of why a 40 year old is more brittle than a 16 year old for example, but I guess I will understand when I get there


I can guarantee that if you get there, you will most certainly get it, even if you never understand the science behind it. You'll be more likely to get there, BTW, if you exercise a little caution where it is due.

It's even more fun passing 50. I was just asked by a friend how long I think I can keep skating - into my 60's or 70's? I said I'm not sure, but will continue as long as possible. At some point I will probably switch over to cross country skiing, although you can break a leg doing that too! Swimming is probably the safest bet, but sooo boring, IMO.

[EastonSkater]

Actually, I refuse to use the harness. To me, I learn to do a jump one way on the harness, and then have to completely relearn it off the harness (this, of course, might because we don't really have any harness experts at our rink, but part of it really is that the ropes and the belt to throw of our center of mass, etc. when you'r on it, which makes a big difference one triples). The harness helped on my doubles, but I haven't used it since double toe.

That's the idea of a harness. It's to start off jumpers to get some rough feel of a jump without having to end up in hospital or end up dead.

[dbny]

Actually, I refuse to use the harness. To me, I learn to do a jump one way on the harness, and then have to completely relearn it off the harness (this, of course, might because we don't really have any harness experts at our rink, but part of it really is that the ropes and the belt to throw of our center of mass, etc. when you'r on it, which makes a big difference one triples). The harness helped on my doubles, but I haven't used it since double toe.

The harness that was used in the demos in Audrey Weisiger's presentation was the "fishing pole" type. She made a point that it takes considerable skill and expertise to manage it properly, and that was clearly apparent in the demos. We could see that the skater was not influenced by it at all, and it did save him from the full impact of falling from height at high speeds.

[dbny]

I really debated starting this thread, but I'm glad I did, because so much good info has been posted about the various types of knee pads and adjustments and fittings that one might need.

[Skate@Delaware]

I've been on both sides of this discussion. When I first started with the waltz jump, I wouldn't (couldn't) do it without my pads on...they were my security blanket. But, I thought it was stupid that if I didn't have them on I couldn't do the jump, so I worked really hard to get over it.

Now, i wear the gel-pads when I know I am working on jumps and the back or sit spin (or sometimes camel). When I'm in lessons, I don't always wear them, I don't halt the lesson either to go get them on if coach says "we're jumping."

I've fallen with and without; yes, I'd rather fall with them on (less painful) but I don't let that hold me back :lol: and I don't think people should be snotty towards others about it.

We have several girls who do test and compete in their pads, at the instruction of their mothers.

[cassarilda]

oooo! I started a contraversy!! :lol:


Just to clarify... Im fine with other people wearing protective gear, and I do understand that for certain purposes its a fantastic and necessary idea... hell Im sure Im going to be padded fully when I eventually learn jumps/spins etc...

but for now, when I am confident on the ice for general basic skating, I would prefer to not wear knee pads, as I dont feel the need for them... other people do, and thats fine... each to their own... if it helps them learn and get more confident, then thats great!

The term 'security blanket' is not derogratory, and Im sorry if it came across that way... there is nothing wrong with having something there to make you feel more comfortable and secure...

Do you want to know what MY security blanket is? Its my husband.... if he is there teaching and helping me, I am more confident doing things because I know he will tell when I do something wrong, he will correct me, and he will support me, and if I fall and injure myself, he will look after me... Now what happens if he isnt there? I still try hard, but not as focussed as when he is there... BUT I am better for the experience of having him there...

The same applies to whatever form you have that helps you on or off the ice (dont get me started on what my dance & trapeze security blanket was :lol: )... it is there to help you...

So long as it doesnt hinder you...

That was my point ;) I feel that knee pads would hinder me, and I choose not to use them..

Can I go back to being an observer now? ;)

[dbny]

there is nothing wrong with having something there to make you feel more comfortable and secure...

You have managed to completely miss my point! To me and many others who wear knee pads and/or other protective gear, the issue is not comfort or security at all. The issue is protection from potentially significant damage.

[cassarilda]

You have managed to completely miss my point! To me and many others who wear knee pads and/or other protective gear, the issue is not comfort or security at all. The issue is protection from potentially significant damage.

I was making that comment in regards to the term "security blanket"... NOT about protection.

If i didnt make it clear, let me just do so now...

There is nothing wrong with wearing protection... I understand the many reasons behind wearing it

I am NOT one of those people who laugh at or scorn others because they choose to wear it... and I would expect people not to laugh or scorn me because, at this point in time, I choose not to... its not for fear of looking silly etc, because I probably look more silly being on the ice more often...

I understand that it may help prevent injury from direct falls etc... and it is a good idea, and Ive seen the benefits is provides to many people at my rink...

but again...

I choose not to.

[beachbabe]

I'm sorry, but i think kneepads are useless.

I know that the second i don't get any pain from falling, i stop learning. Its an element of learning, you are never going to get it untill you fall and it hurts. The knee pads also give people a false sense of security, when there are many many other injuries you can get from skating. They give you a feeling that you can try anything, fall and not get hurt, as a result you might fall another way and get sriously hurt. Pain is what keeps people skating at a safe level for their skill, because no-one wants to fall over and over and over on their knees if it hurts.


Personally i'd like to learn skating the good old fashioned way, knee pads seem like a quick fix but are actually far from. And people do use them as security blankets. If you don't see people doing this at your rink..think about how many kids learn to swim with the arm floats and then struggle to get rid of them.

I also think its pointless to try and avoid injury in skating. obviously one should skate with reasonble sfaety measures, but you need to leave your fear at the door. if you are worried about injuries, the sport of skating is not for you. It you want to skate at your highest possible level, the worry of injuries should be far far away at the back of your mind. Being too careful will get you nowhere.

[luna_skater]

I'm sorry, but i think kneepads are useless.

I know that the second i don't get any pain from falling, i stop learning. Its an element of learning, you are never going to get it untill you fall and it hurts.

I don't think the issue is pain, it's damage...every single person here understands that falling on ice is going to hurt. But for some people, falling on a certain spot repeatedly can cause enough damage to prevent them from skating at all. Some bodies take a long time to heal.

[dbny]

I'm sorry, but i think kneepads are useless.

I know that the second i don't get any pain from falling, i stop learning. Its an element of learning, you are never going to get it untill you fall and it hurts.

Just curious, how old are you? Your point of view can change considerably over the years.

It's a shame that you can't learn without pain! You have my sincere condolences. As a kid, when I was a roller dancer, I fell many times and experienced pain from it. I don't recall learning anything from that except that hitting the floor hurts! A not unusual fall was when you locked the wheels of your skates together and went down like a ton of bricks. It never stopped me from stroking so close I could hear the wheels click because that was the goal. But I also never needed to lock the wheels to learn anything!

It is absolutely true that if you don't take chances, you are not going to learn, but there is also absolutely no reason to take unnecessary chances. Kneepads will be useless to you until you need them. If you reach your fifties and you are still learning, you might find you need them. If you injure your knee/s you might find you need them.

[cassarilda]

May we all just agree that if you feel like you should wear them, then do so!

And if you feel like you dont need them, then dont....

But if someone suggests wearing or removing them, then think about it.

It is a personal choice after all....



Democracy and free will... gotta love it! :halo:

[beachbabe]

I don't think the issue is pain, it's damage...every single person here understands that falling on ice is going to hurt. But for some people, falling on a certain spot repeatedly can cause enough damage to prevent them from skating at all. Some bodies take a long time to heal.

for those people who are at a very high risk of skating, perhaps knee pads are a good option.

on the other hand, if you are at such a high risk for injury, maybe skating is taking a bit too much of a risk.

as for pain and learning, having protective pads on allows you to lose your inhibitions and worries, i know if i wore knee and/or hip pads I would take a lot more unnecesary risks on the ice and maybe get hurt some other way.

i have no problem with people wearing protective gear, in fact i really couldn't care less if people want to wear them or not. i'm just saying that its not going to promote real progress and it most definately is a security blanket.

its up the skater if they want to wear them, i jsut don't think its a good way to learn.

[dbny]

i'm just saying that its not going to promote real progress and it most definately is a security blanket.

its up the skater if they want to wear them, i jsut don't think its a good way to learn.

I'm sure that must be true for you!

[CrossedBlades]

beachbabe, I'm guessing that you're on the young end - early teens, maybe? If so, you're working from that viewpoint, which is totally understandable. However, since many skaters on this board are adults, they're coming from a totally different viewpoint.

Once a body passes a certain point, things don't heal nearly as fast. If a kid falls out a tree and breaks his arm, you slap a cast on it and it's as good as new after a while. An adult who breaks an arm will need a much longer time for the bone to repair itself, and it may never function in the same way again. For some adults, the security provided by padding may not be "If I fall, it won't hurt," so much as "If I fall, I'll be able to get up again." This risk doesn't mean they need to abstain from a sport they enjoy - it just means being sensible and taking care of one's body as needed.

Adults have a different mental block that your average kid learning to skate (or at least I do - maybe I'm just odd). I'm considering pads for jumping not because I'm afraid of pain - I've got the bruises to prove it - but because on some level, I'm afraid of screwing up and seriously injuring myself. Mistakes are part of the learning curve for everyone, but an adult is better equipped to identify the potential fallout from said mistakes, which can lead to excessive restraint and thus impede learning. I'd take them off once I had the technique down, because the risk of injury is much lower when you know what you're doing.

Of course, padding is a personal choice, but it may be more important (and beneficial) for some than others.

[dbny]

Once a body passes a certain point, things don't heal nearly as fast. If a kid falls out a tree and breaks his arm, you slap a cast on it and it's as good as new after a while. An adult who breaks an arm will need a much longer time for the bone to repair itself, and it may never function in the same way again. For some adults, the security provided by padding may not be "If I fall, it won't hurt," so much as "If I fall, I'll be able to get up again." This risk doesn't mean they need to abstain from a sport they enjoy - it just means being sensible and taking care of one's body as needed.


Well said!

As one who has suffered a broken right arm three times in my 59 years, I can tell you that the experience was vastly different at 55 than it was at 5 and 15. In the two earlier cases, the cast came off, and I was as good as new immediately. The last time, however, I could not bend my elbow when it was freed up. I was able to work on it before the rest of the cast came off, but when my wrist was freed up, I could hardly bend it at all. My doctor gave me the choice of going for PT or doing the exercises myself, which was what I chose. I did regain full mobility, but my wrist is permanently deformed, and I still have pain from time to time. A broken arm really seemed like a trivial thing to me when I was young, but it is far from that after 50. Even in one's thirties, joints quickly become stiff with immobility and PT is needed when a cast comes off. I know of two adults who have broken their knee caps on the ice, but have never heard of a child or teenager doing so. The risks are different and call for a different response.

[EastonSkater]

I'm sorry, but i think kneepads are useless.

I know that the second i don't get any pain from falling, i stop learning. Its an element of learning, you are never going to get it until you fall and it hurts. The knee pads also give people a false sense of security, when there are many many other injuries you can get from skating.

Knee pads aren't useless at all. Many skaters have fallen on their knee with pads on....and then they just get up again....no pain. No problem.

Sure, we fall....but in the days of the new school, we have pad technology, so if we wear protective gear and fall, it can significantly reduce or even eliminate the chance of injury on the part that impacts the ground...such as the knee...or elbow...or head.

Knee pads don't give people a false sense of security against knee protection. They work well to protect the knees. Very well in fact. Other injuries can happen....sure....but falling on knees and things is common...so if you can just put a pad there and stop the pain and stop the damage....then excellent.

[Rusty Blades]

When I skated as a teenager (1960's) I never saw a helmet or brace or any kind of pads being used. I wrecked at age 18 working on axles and smashed my knees and that took me off-ice for what I thought would be the rest of my life. If I had been wearing knee pads it is possible the injury wouldn't have been nearly as severe. Well into my 40's, I still had knee problems - either knee would just "go out" on me unexpectedly and if there wasn't something to grab on to, I'd be on the floor. thank God that has finally cleared up and I started skating again in January, at age 56.

In my struggle to re-learn skating, I have just started into backward skating. Only yesterday I said to my coach that I was seriously thinking about getting a butt pad and a helmet since I felt that would give me the confidence to push harder and stretch my limits.

At this ripe old age, with one injury behind me, I'd rather push my limits with protection and keep on skating!

[rf3ray]

With regards to the Knee Pads.

Prevention is always better than the Cure :-)

:-)

[Mrs Redboots]

I can guarantee that if you get there, you will most certainly get it, even if you never understand the science behind it. You'll be more likely to get there, BTW, if you exercise a little caution where it is due. It's a sad fact of life that one's bones become more brittle with age, and a fall you would have bounced back from at 16 might mean a broken hip at 61.

It's even more fun passing 50. I was just asked by a friend how long I think I can keep skating - into my 60's or 70's? I said I'm not sure, but will continue as long as possible. At some point I will probably switch over to cross country skiing, although you can break a leg doing that too! Swimming is probably the safest bet, but sooo boring, IMO.Oh come on, DBNY, there are skaters in their 80s out there competing! Well, at least one - Husband and I are going to be skating against him and his dance partner at the Mountain Cup, and, believe me, I feel honoured to be doing so.

And I've known pairs skaters in their 70s.... and yes, they included lifts in their programmes.

This is so not just a sport for the young - but it keeps us young.

Incidentally, re padding - my coach allows/encourages his free skaters to pad, especially once they start learning axels. However, he said that eventually they all give up the padding, once they learn that you never fall on the padded bit! If you pad your behind, you land on your hip. If you pad your hip, you land on your knees. If you pad your knees, you land on your behind..... etc....

[Perry]

The harness that was used in the demos in Audrey Weisiger's presentation was the "fishing pole" type. She made a point that it takes considerable skill and expertise to manage it properly, and that was clearly apparent in the demos. We could see that the skater was not influenced by it at all, and it did save him from the full impact of falling from height at high speeds.

I've never used one of the fishing-pole types, but I can imagine they'd work better since they're lighter. We have one of the ceiling mounted ones, and the harness itself is incredibly heavy.

Also, as for getting the rough feel of a jump, if you're working on triples, you should be able to do that by doing a lot of doubles (because the feel on the takeoff of a triple is slightly different), using the takeoff you would for a triple but not pulling in. I usually do 5 doubles for every one triple attempt until a fully master the feel of the takeoff.

And on the kneepad/harness note, though injuries from falling do hurt and can be bad, it's the overuse injuries that take skaters off the ice. I've only see three people every break a bone (from falling -- not stress fractures from overuse) skating, and only one of them quit afterwards. The other two were off for about two months. On the other hand, almost every high level skater I know has some overuse-related condition or another. I myself have never broken a bone skating or needed stitches or in any way hurt myself by falling and yet by age 14, I had developed chronic back pain, chronic knee problems (patella femoral pain syndrome), and had major hip surgery. With the hip, I was off for two years. Beginning skaters will obviously be more prone to flling injuries, but the truth of the matter is that it's not the falling injuries that cause elite and high-level skaters o quit or be forced to do so -- it's the overuse injuries.

[dbny]

Beginning skaters will obviously be more prone to flling injuries, but the truth of the matter is that it's not the falling injuries that cause elite and high-level skaters o quit or be forced to do so -- it's the overuse injuries.

So sorry to hear of all your injuries.

ITA, however, most of us here are adult skaters, and not elite level. Most skaters are not elite level, though even elites do break bones (Sarah Hughes, for one). One reason elites are less likely to break bones is that they are younger. Everyone stands a greater chance of a fracture on almost any fall, when they age. BTW, among adult skaters that I personally know, and not counting myself, I know five who have broken bones skating. One of them is my former coach.

[lovepairs]

I wear knee pads all of the time when I am training. Basically, to save what is left of my knees from many years of falling on them. However, about two to three weeks before a competition, or test, I wean myself off of them. They do have this "security" thing about them. I'm becoming very good at making the transition with them to without them. It is not a problem.

By the way, it is so nice to be off the Adult National Schedule Fiasco threads...I feel like a normal person, again :D

[Kelli]

I'm 23, and I won't step on the ice without a kneepad (the Skatingsafe gel pads). I have a cyst/some type of extra tissue over my right kneecap, and if I fall in that general area it HURTS, way more than a fall on my other knee would. I test in a kneepad, and I've never heard a word about it. Actually, my dance coach, an RN who knows about my knee injury and that I wear a pad, wasn't even sure I was wearing it until I told her. This whole discussion of pads being security blankets or whatever just seems silly to me. If Sasha Cohen can skate in the Olympics with her leg wrapped, I can test and compete with my knee pad.

[Perry]

So sorry to hear of all your injuries.

ITA, however, most of us here are adult skaters, and not elite level. Most skaters are not elite level, though even elites do break bones (Sarah Hughes, for one). One reason elites are less likely to break bones is that they are younger. Everyone stands a greater chance of a fracture on almost any fall, when they age. BTW, among adult skaters that I personally know, and not counting myself, I know five who have broken bones skating. One of them is my former coach.


Thanks. I wasn't really commenting about everyone here (and I have no problem with any type of padding, myself, for elite or adult skaters), but more about the comments about pads preventing injuries for elite skaters.

[SkatingOnClouds]

It occurs to me that wearing protection is very much to do with the culture of the rink at which you skate. If everyone wore helmets and knee pads etc, then it would just be what everyone wore. And every beginner figure skater would be pestering his/her parents to buy the protection so they could feel like a 'real skater' too.

At my rink, I never saw people wearing any sort of protection in the past. Lately I have noticed more & more wearing some form of padding, or a wrist guard or whatever. And one person doing it gives permission for others, especially if that one person is one of the most advanced skaters there.

There is no doubt that many older adults have more fear of falling, and that fear stands in the way of their learning new and potentially more risky moves. I'm 46 and don't wear any padding yet, but am not averse to the idea if it proves to be a good idea.

[beachbabe]

It occurs to me that wearing protection is very much to do with the culture of the rink at which you skate. If everyone wore helmets and knee pads etc, then it would just be what everyone wore. And every beginner figure skater would be pestering his/her parents to buy the protection so they could feel like a 'real skater' too.

At my rink, I never saw people wearing any sort of protection in the past. Lately I have noticed more & more wearing some form of padding, or a wrist guard or whatever. And one person doing it gives permission for others, especially if that one person is one of the most advanced skaters there.

There is no doubt that many older adults have more fear of falling, and that fear stands in the way of their learning new and potentially more risky moves. I'm 46 and don't wear any padding yet, but am not averse to the idea if it proves to be a good idea.

agreed, at my rink no-one wears any kind of protective gear. the really high level skaters dont even wear it when learning because they sjut learn their jumps with the harness untill its perfect and they can do it themselves.

[stardust skies]

Practising without harness or protective gear is old-school. New school is using sensible and smart techniques not only to learn, but to improve a lot over old-school.


Funny you should mention that. The INTERESTING part about your argument is that "old school" skaters, even those doing lots of triples, had a much much lower rate of injury than this new generation. So what does that tell ya? The harness apparently isn't that pivotal in the number of serious injuries incurred by skaters after all. Kurt Browning was doing quads back then. He's still skating today and doing triples. Meanwhile, the people in the past couple of Olympics have all disappeared, most due to hip injuries (Yagudin, Lipinski..). I'm waiting for the hard data before considering the harness an injury-reducing tool. Same with the new hinged boots. I'm waiting on data before thinking they're any better than the "old school" boots. You can theoritize all you want, but where are the facts?

[stardust skies]

That's the idea of a harness. It's to start off jumpers to get some rough feel of a jump without having to end up in hospital or end up dead.

Dead? Doing a jump? Are you serious?

Have you ever tried doubles? I'm not being condescending at all here, just asking. It's just that it's really not a big deal. It's a jump. It won't kill you.

[stardust skies]

I'm sorry, but i think kneepads are useless.

I know that the second i don't get any pain from falling, i stop learning. Its an element of learning, you are never going to get it untill you fall and it hurts.

AMEN sister. I learn that way quite a bit. It's like "damn, don't wanna do that again, I guess I better pull in my arms after all." With no padding you have to be much more careful. Sort of like driving when a cop is behind you. But ultimately, that's how you SHOULD be skating/driving anyway. I agree about the false sense of security in that respect, as well.


on the other hand, if you are at such a high risk for injury, maybe skating is taking a bit too much of a risk


I must say I agree with this as well. I know skating's enjoyable for many people, but if you run such a high risk of breaking your body apart with a single blow, why do it? There are other ways to have fun. Sure Olympic champions are often dealing with beaten up bodies, but they are Olympic champions. Their whole career is set from that one event, pretty much. I don't really understand the concept of running that high a risk of that serious an injury for a hobby.

[beachbabe]

Dead? Doing a jump? Are you serious?

Have you ever tried doubles? I'm not being condescending at all here, just asking. It's just that it's really not a big deal. It's a jump. It won't kill you.


haha, thats kinda what i wanted to say too, but i feel like if you say anything like that on here people start attacking you about the dangers of figure skating. Actually today i finally started to land by double sal just about consistently. Now i don't see why people do make such a big deal. Obviously I fell on my butt many many times as i was first learning it, but its never been anything so serious that i couldn't get up and try it again.

figure skating is no more dangerous than playing football, cheerleading, tennis, or even walking down the stairs every morning-there is always a risk of you falling and breaking your neck.

[dbny]

It occurs to me that wearing protection is very much to do with the culture of the rink at which you skate. If everyone wore helmets and knee pads etc, then it would just be what everyone wore. And every beginner figure skater would be pestering his/her parents to buy the protection so they could feel like a 'real skater' too.

I suppose that could be true, but I wouldn't know from my own experience. Like I said before, my knees are on the edge, so when I started skating and whacked them once, I knew what I had to do to protect myself. As a coach, I do push them for my adult skaters, especially after one in her late 30's (not my student) broke her kneecap working on FXO's. For young competitive skaters and wannabe's, it is obviously not an issue. I don't even know why they are commenting here, as they are not in the group being addressed.

[Mercedeslove]

I was wore knee pads because for ome reason I felt safer with them on. It had been a while since I had skated and well my knees aren't what they were when I was younger.

Though since I started lessons I have left them behind. Not because I don't want to look weird...because I know if I do compete one day, I won't be able to have my knee pads with me. I had to break myself of the habit of wearing the so I would be comfotable without them.

I have been doing fine without them, but I also have been cautious of what I am doing as well.

If I begin to work on big jumps, I will bring the padding back.

See I'm a pro-wrestler and I spent the first few years of my career not wearing knee pads simply becuase I didn't like them. Now I have knee pain on cold days and sometimes they use to just give out.

I started wearing them when I wrestled because I realized I needed to protection and would rather have them there. Then one day not be able to walk at all.

[EastonSkater]

beachbabe ... well.... if the day comes and you crack your knee bone and splinter it during a skating fall......you'll know about it THEN. Of course.....right now, you won't know about it. But if it does happen, make sure you think back to this thread.

[crayonskater]

For me, knee pads would be a distraction and a security blanket. I'm 26, I know my body pretty well, and while I have a pretty messed up right knee from other sports, it doesn't bother me while skating except when jumping.

Plus, when I do fall, I tend to miss all the areas that would be padded. I also worry somewhat that I'll be willing to put my hands down or land on my knees if they were protected and padded instead of learning to roll the fall properly.

I wear wrist guards when I rollerblade. Pavement tears.

I don't much care what other people do. I may change my mind when I'm older, but I don't think I'm being an idiot or in danger of DYING HORRIBLY because I don't have full body armor whilst practicing my three-turns, either. ;)

[dbny]

I don't think I'm being an idiot or in danger of DYING HORRIBLY because I don't have full body armor whilst practicing my three-turns, either. ;)

8O No one here said anything like that. But since you mentioned three turns, you should know that one member of this board did break her ankle on a BO three. My former coach broke her wrist when she put her hand out to stop an approaching skater, something she had done many times before with no injury. I broke my wrist on BI edges, something I had done many times before with no injury. My daughter broke her pinky finger in a pillow fight. What does any of this have to do with whether or not knee pads are useful, a security blanket or anything else? NOTHING! Open up your own thread if you don't like this one - all of you who cannot stick to the subject at hand! That subject being simply that knee pads are for protection from injury when needed ... period... the end.

[Skittl1321]

figure skating is no more dangerous than playing football, cheerleading, tennis, or even walking down the stairs every morning-there is always a risk of you falling and breaking your neck.

Yes, but for some things there is a higher risk of breaking your neck. You are probably less likely to do it falling off your couch than falling out of a jump or being barreled into during a crowded session.

I managed to do that in a fairly unlikely situation (paintballing, actually) and now I'm very scared of falling in figure skating- but it's not stopping me from doing it. It might stop me from doing anything more than singles.

[stardust skies]

beachbabe ... well.... if the day comes and you crack your knee bone and splinter it during a skating fall......you'll know about it THEN. Of course.....right now, you won't know about it. But if it does happen, make sure you think back to this thread.

But even that nasty injury wouldn't KILL you. I just think that your posts regarding injuries and skating are a little over the top and dramatic.

And I keep asking about your own skating level to wonder if you really do know what it's like to do these jumps, and you don't answer. I must've asked on 5 different threads. I'll assume you don't know what it's like then, and that's probably why you're imagining all these out-of-this-world worst case scenario.

You have pretty decent chances of getting run over by a bus everytime you cross the streets. Do you wear knee pads when you cross the streets "just in case"? You have a better chance of getting run over by a bus than of doing what you said above while skating if you have proper technique. It's just really not THAT dangerous. Not anymore than walking outside. And I don'tsee people all padded up.

PS: to the poster above; I have actually fallen backwards out of my computer chair when leaning and screwing around on it, and it hurt way more than 95 % of all falls I've taken in skating. Heh.

[Mrs Redboots]

Dead? Doing a jump? Are you serious?

Have you ever tried doubles? I'm not being condescending at all here, just asking. It's just that it's really not a big deal. It's a jump. It won't kill you.Eastonskater thinks figure skating is a dangerous sport.

Right - it's so dangerous that people are still doing it in their 70s and 80s! And yes, I've seen people jumping when nearer 80 than 70. And even I, who am the world's worst klutz, can do a couple of small jumps.

I don't wear kneepads, although I do sometimes wear an elastic bandage if my knee is playing up. Which it (touch wood) doesn't do so much now I've lost weight. Husband still has a painful knee from a fall on it a few weeks ago, and it, too, is inclined to play up if he jumps too much, but he doesn't wear pads or a brace. He does occasionally wear a wrist-guard, but I notice that, now he is getting back into figure skating (he abandoned it some years ago in favour of ice dancing), he's stopped doing so. We're both finding glucosamine helps with painful knees - at least, our knees are usually less painful! I take cod-liver-oil daily too.

[Skittl1321]

----------

[Isk8NYC]

The harness apparently isn't that pivotal in the number of serious injuries incurred by skaters after all. Kurt Browning was doing quads back then. He's still skating today and doing triples. Meanwhile, the people in the past couple of Olympics have all disappeared, most due to hip injuries (Yagudin, Lipinski..). I'm waiting for the hard data before considering the harness an injury-reducing tool. Same with the new hinged boots. I'm waiting on data before thinking they're any better than the "old school" boots. You can theoritize all you want, but where are the facts?

Don't fall out of your chair over this, but DON'T think that past skaters DIDN'T use harnesses. (Aha! I finally used a triple negative!) Harnesses are not new - they've been used for many years. The use of harnesses has declined as they've fallen out of vogue due to the growth of off-ice and concerns about liability. Hockey rinks just don't need 'em, so not every rink has a harness. Most new builds were focused on being NHL-sized and having adequate party facilities than providing figure skating harnesses.

While you wait for the "hard data" to arrive on your doorstep, you can look to the PSA for sports science analyses. They reprint articles in every PSA magazine. UDel has a good library, and NJUMDJ has been analyzing skating for some time. If you get to Lake Placid, or even better, Colorado, the Olympic Training centers could point you in the right direction. Maybe you'll find the data you're waiting for there.

I think that if you're at risk from a knee injury, wear the pads! If they give you confidence and keep you active, fine. I'd rather see you active doing something you enjoy than settling for another activity! Variety IS the spice of life, and accepting diversity and different views really does make you grow as a person.

I don't understand what the big controversy is all about - why do so many people care what others do with their knees?