isn't he new AN schedule just Dandy?

[icecatepairs]

OK People lets compare notes...how do you like the new schedule? Lets see my favoruie part is that I may have to with draw from interp if i am reading the schedule correctly...because it is at the same time as championship ladies gold...on another surface.!!!!:frus: 8O :!:

I guess our friend the referee , who knows so much about adult skating ..8O :?: did not realize that masters interp includes ladies gold and they might want to check to see who qualified in CG before they arrange it that way. of course who really knows because that event (mastere intero ) is also listed for the following day but it is not indicated that they are seperate groups. please tell me i am wrong and they cannot be this disoraganized.:?? 8O

my next favorite part is that my coaches flight arrives after i skate in CG!!:cry:

anyone else as charmed with the new schedule as I am?????
lets vent before we all blow up!!!!:twisted:

[techskater]

I also like the fact that the Friday Masters Interp 2 group only has a warm up and no competition time. Whatever.

[dcden]

I also like the fact that the Friday Masters Interp 2 group only has a warm up and no competition time. Whatever.

That's probably an oversight that they can (should) correct easily. I remember this same thing happening to me a few years ago, and they slipped my event back in. In any case let them know ASAP. Looking at the schedule they should be able to put you in the North Pole rink, which ends its events about 1 hr before those on the South Pole rink. Good luck with it.

[climbsk8]

Here's a good dandy ....

I have no return flight home. Not without paying $800. So, I'll miss my Saturday AM flight in order to skate my dance final round, then I'll head to the airport, then I'll PRAY TO GOD that I can get home on standby. I'll camp out in the airport until somebody lets me on a plane, and then maybe I'll get home.

I'll also miss work Saturday. If I can't get a flight out, then I'll miss work Sunday too.

Of course, I HAD all this worked out, but then I changed it after the first schedule came out, and I can't get it back.

(sigh....)

[silverladies3]

Get this one. Silver ladies 4 final is on Friday at the same time interp. 4 is.
I don't mind skating twice in one day but not at the same time.

[flo]

I'm sending a bill to the USFSA. It will at least make them aware of the expense of this mess. Here's the contacts as listed in the announcement.

APdougherty@compuserve.com
Chief Referee Mory Stillwell MorryS@aol.com
Chair, Competition committee Larry Kriwanek larrykri@hotmail.com
Chair, Adult skating committee, Antonio Conte sedated@bellsouth.net

[climbsk8]

Hey guys ...

I guess we can expect the schedule to change again, at least for some of the events.

As for contacting people ... I got a VERY compassionate reply from Tony Conte. Although there's not much we can do to make this year better, he assured me that steps are already being taken to guarantee this never happens again.

I'm guessing he's been swamped with complaints. Remember if you do email him (or Maggie Harding) that they're competitive skaters too ... just like us. They're all getting bitten just like we are.

[lovepairs]

You go Flow...I'm just wondering how many lawyers are out there among us who are getting screwed. You see, because we are "skaters" they think we are "kids" you know, only "kids REALLY skate."

Anyway, your partner just brought something to my attention that really sucks big time if it is true: ONE 20 MINUTE WARM UP FOR NINE (9) PAIR TEAMS! Please tell me this is not true.

[flo]

Climb
They are skaters. Like you said they and the USFSA uppers need to be aware of the expense and problems this has caused so it will not happen again.

I don't know what the 20 min warm up is based on this time. When I spoke to the LOC rep, she had said that the ref had only put in one warm up, and she went back to request two. It could be that some pairs responded that they would not be at the 20 min warm up, so the second one was cut.

[Debbie S]

Chief Referee Mory Stillwell Morry Stillwell is the one responsible for this mess? Gee, I thought he was supposed to be one of the compassionate, understanding, and responsible leaders in the USFSA. My opinion of him has changed. 8O

[flo]

Who knows Debbie, I'm sure we don't know the whole story.

FYI:
I've spoken with the LOC (very nice people) and here's the word on the gold pairs warm up:
There will be two warm ups, 4 pairs on one (10:30 - 10:50) and 5 on another 10:50-11:10. The ladies masters willl be 11:10 to 11:30. After this the next two will be combined and back on schedule.

[lovepairs]

I understand that Morry Stillwell, was not only the President of USFSA at one time, but was also there for the very first Adult Nationals in Wilmington, Delaware. So, how could have this happened? My best guess is that no one person did anything intentionally to cause this to happen, but that it was sort of a dominoe effect of a general disregard for the adult skating community; simply not taking us as seriously as they would when organizing an elite or standard track competition. Any thoughts about all this? I mean, I'm not looking at the "blame" factor, so much as I'm trying to understand a general underlying cause for what happened. I'm also guessing that this general attitude toward adult skaters filters down right from the top into our home clubs, rinks, and through the judging/testing system, too. Sort of always tolorating us, but not really taking us seriously...any thoughts?

[sk8pics]

Well, I have no idea how this all happened, but I don't know that I would automatically come to the conclusion that it resulted from a "general disregard for the adult skating community." Perhaps some of the people just didn't stop to think and consider things fully. Perhaps it was some bad miscommunication. Maybe some of the people involved are inexperienced in these things. Yes, the chief referee makes the schedule, and perhaps he did it all by himself and forgot that adults have jobs as opposed to school. Perhaps he thought everyone would go for the whole week so a schedule change doesn't matter. Of course, no matter the reason/explanation, the damage is done, and I feel very badly about this for all of you. Whatever the eason, it should not have happened.

Sure, there are probably people in the USFS organization who probably don't take adults seriously, but plenty do. Seems like more and more competitions are including adult events. Seems like more and more coaches are taking on adult students and even traveling to competitions with them. My own coach is going to AN (without me, :cry: since I can't compete there yet) with his other adult students.

Well, anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. YMMV.

And anyway, have a great time once you are there, everyone!

[jazzpants]

My own coach is going to AN (without me, :cry: since I can't compete there yet) with his other adult students. I hear 'ya! Same here with my primary coach. :cry: Thank goodness that, given the schedule for Championship Gold Men (where his other student is competing at this year), I might still get in a lesson at my usual time. And besides that, I'll still get a lesson with my secondary coach. (She doesn't go to adult comps.)

But still no fun, considering that practically all the adult skaters from my rink are gone the week of AN and I still have to make those FS sessions. :cry:

[flo]

Thanks sk8pics! Hope you can join us soon! There have been lots of surprises at Nats through the years. Time to focus on skating.

[daisies]

Ok, people, everyone take a deep breath!

In ..... out ......

Some of these problems are easily fixable. They are the reason the schedule is tentative. When a skater has events that conflict, that is like the No. 1 reason for the ref to make a change. And he will, don't worry. Second, that Masters Interp warmup on Friday that has no event does have an event. Both the w/u and event look like they are actually on Thursday night, and perhaps the w/u on Friday is simply a remnant from the old schedule.

Really, there has been a domino effect -- there was only *one* major mistake made by the referee and that was preparing a schedule that didn't mirror what was in the announcement. The conflicting events is a minor mistake and one that happens EVERY YEAR. So I hope everyone isn't soured on the AN experience, because it really is a fun time for all, and I look forward to seeing you all there!

[icecatepairs]

ok the deep breath in and out didn't work. I am one of the ones who has the two events practically on top of each other thing going on and i was told by a member of the loc that it won't change so i should decide if i want to withdraw. 6 adult nationals . 2 broken ankles , 2 surgeries later I have never missed a national since 2000, and pins, rods, screws and stitches i have never withdrawn from an event. now i am forced to do so because of incompetence at the hands of the organizers. now i am told it is not fixable, they don't care , so whatever...and of course no mention of a refund. heres a clue..don't put people test eligible for the same events ont he same day

like silverladies4 said...why are ladies in silver4 who are eligible for interp 4 even having those events on the same day. if the silver 4 ladies had interp on our championship gold day then there would not be a chance that it would include the same skaters. i wish daisy was right and that they would fix it...quite frankly they don't seem to give a damn. i wish i could stand around and say nice things about this situation and protect people...but right now if i was a certain people or person...who incidently does not resond to his email...(thank you maggie for all your wonderful help as you are always the one to write back right away) i would stay in the hospitality room in texas. this kind of fiasco is not par for the course . the person on the loc i talked to today asked why everyone is calling her instead of the person responible...well because that person or persons doesn't provide their contact info...convinient!!!

sorry to vent people, but beter among friends than center ice in dallas (lol)

if anyone makes any headway here let us no...remenber people...we wrote big entry fee checks for this event...this is not free cable...its pay per view!!!!!!!!!!!!

[silverladies3]

Thanks Icecatepairs for your post. Just to keep it real is was silver ladies 4 final and silver ladies 4 interp. that was scheduled at the same time.
I'm sure it will changed will 12 women having an issue with the event.
See you all in Dallas!! Mary

[lovepairs]

Icecate,

Thank you for that very rational post, and I can't agree with you more. I'm not trying to assign blame, but, nor am I trying to surgar coat what happened. I do believe it was a combination of a domino effect and a total disregard for the adult skating community. This attitude will never be changed unless the USFSA is confronted with this, which is what we are all trying to do right now.

I think the issue of "refunds" is paramount. There is absolutely no reason for the referree not to respond to your emails, even with just a one line "thank you, I will take it under consideration." I have been writing certain skating directors all year long for issues with regard to summer clinics, and no one has thought it important enough to even respond to my inquiries. It's like my correspondence are falling into a black hole. This is what I mean by "total disregard of adult skaters." It is rude, uncalled for and unprofessional.

I might also add, that Antonio Conte did, in fact, respond to my letter in the most gracious manner, too. Thank you Antonio for behaving as an "adult."

[flo]

Iceskatepairs
I am surprised that there has been no attempt to respond to your requests and let you know what's going on to correct the situation. In the past there were scheduling conflicts with final rounds of interp and fs (when we had initial and final rounds of interp). The ref would not change the schedule prior to the events, but would wait until after the initial rounds and the final list of skaters was in and then make modifications. It was often still tight, skating early in one event and late in another, but we never had to withdraw. I also don't think it's out of line to speak with the ref in person in Dallas.

[lovepairs]

Wouldn't be surprised if the ref is MIA.

[lovepairs]

Wouldn't be surprised if the ref is MIA. Icecate, give me a call tonight, I'll be home after 6:00pm

[daisies]

Iceskatepairs
I am surprised that there has been no attempt to respond to your requests and let you know what's going on to correct the situation. In the past there were scheduling conflicts with final rounds of interp and fs (when we had initial and final rounds of interp). The ref would not change the schedule prior to the events, but would wait until after the initial rounds and the final list of skaters was in and then make modifications. It was often still tight, skating early in one event and late in another, but we never had to withdraw. I also don't think it's out of line to speak with the ref in person in Dallas.
I agree. It's unacceptable for a skater's events to conflict. If, say, an official warmup conflicts with another event, that's different and skaters just have to deal with it. But the events themselves? No way. Do not take no for an answer. You paid to be in both events, you trained for both events, and no way no how would I let this go unfixed. E-mail or call EVERYONE if you have to.

[daisies]

Wait a minute .... I am now confused. I am looking at the most recent schedule, and Ch. Gold Ladies starts at 7:40pm on Thursday. The last event in the other rink ends at 7:10pm.

Where is the conflict? Am I looking at the wrong schedule?

Yeah, it's tight ... but certainly not impossible. Due to the circumstances, the ref might allow you to skate early in the Interp and later in the FS.

But actual conflict? Sorry, I don't see it. I thought you meant your events were at the same time, crossing over each other.

Please let me know if I'm looking at the wrong thing.

[flo]

Actually from
"because it is at the same time as championship ladies gold...on another surface.!!!!"
I thought it the events were overlapping as well. It might be tight and not the best of plans, but doable.

[sk8er1964]

Actually from
"because it is at the same time as championship ladies gold...on another surface.!!!!"
I thought it the events were overlapping as well. It might be tight and not the best of plans, but doable.

A championship event at AN is NOT like skating an open event. There's an added tension. You are skating for a national championship in a qualifying event. Go "backstage" at any championship event and you'll feel the tension. I've done both open events and a championship event at AN, and it's very different. I'm not trying to be insulting to those who can't/don't skate at the championship level - I know that those events are very very important too - but it IS different nonetheless.

Any schedule that puts any event with anyone skating a championship event within 24 hours of the championship event is, IM-very-HO, stupid. Period. It's not "doable", it's stupid. The ref made a huge error. It can happen at Sectionals, of course, because of the tight time frame - but competitors can also chose to do just one event, knowing it's likely they'll have more than one in a day. However, AN has four days to work with.

JMHO. I can totally understand why icecatepairs is upset. I'd be livid if I was were in her skates.

[flo]

Oh please! The championship evens are not any more important than any other event to any other skater. There's tension with eac h event, and each skater handles it differently. Anyone who enters has to make their own decision as to how many events to skate . It is not the best of planning, but unfortunately it does happen. It's happened to me and if you stick with it long enough it will happen to you. If the had to not schedule any potential conflicting events wihin 24 hours of the "championship" events we'd have a 7 day nationals.

[lovepairs]

I totally agree with sk8er1964 on the following points:

It doesn't take a rocket scientest to put together a schedule that doesn't stress skaters out to the hilt. All it takes is a little pre-planning and concern. You look at Champship Gold and another Gold event, such as Gold Interp, for instance, and you say to yourself "Gee, I bet there are several of the same skaters in each event, because it is the same level." So, if they have to be on the same day then one goes in the morning and the other at night--not such a hard thing to do. NOT JUST 1/2 HOUR TO COME DOWN OFF YOUR LAST SKATE AFTER 20 AXELS, MAKE AN OUTFIT CHANGE, HAVE A DRINK OF WATER AND GO, AGAIN!!! I did two tests once, back to back, and I thought I was going to have a f****** stroke!

However, I have to say that I don't care if you are bronze, gold, championship, novice masters, or whatever...nerves are nerves!

Hey, even Michelle Kwan gets a rest between her short and long program.

[daisies]

I totally and emphatically agree with flo. No event is more "important" than another. A skater in Bronze Men is going to get just as nervous as someone in Championship Masters Ladies -- or not. It just depends on how the person handles it. Plus, to that Bronze Man, his event is pretty damn important. He trained just as hard.

Like flo, I've been there as well. We all have -- and if you haven't, you will eventually. It's the nature of the beast.

ETA:

lovepairs, I see your point, but you can't please everyone. AN is a bear to schedule, to be sure. And yeah, the ref screwed up big time. But now he is trying to fix it. The best he can do is avoid conflicts, and, at least in this case, he has.

Again, it happens to everyone. In 2000, my Interp event was a half-hour after my three-hour figure event. Three hours of silent focus -- straight into a fast Interp. Totally different mindset. (Same nerves though!) And not only did I have to change costumes, but skates too! And guess what? I'm still alive to tell the tale. ;)

I also remember in 1998 there was a skater whose dance event was going on at the *same time* as her Interp final round (there were final rounds for Interp in those days!). She did dance and literally ran to the other rink and jumped on the ice for her Interp, then I think ran back to dance -- not sure, she may have been done, but she definitely ran from dance to Interp, and she had to wear the same costume. She came in 2nd in Interp, IIRC!

[flo]

All the upper level events use to be scheduled very close on Saturday and Sunday. I have run from a final round to a master's pair event. It would be great if we could all have a day break between each event, but it does not always happen. If I could not do two events in one day, no matter how difficult or close, I would not enter two events or unfortunately be prepared to withdraw if I thought that would be best for me.
I hope sk8pairs can work it out and enjoy Nats.

[lovepairs]

Daises,

He can't fix it--the damage is done. Once he deviated from the original schedule the damage was done. This fiasco can't be fixed; many people are loosing a lot of money over this. Not to mention the ice time and emotional time they've put into training for their events.

[manleywoman]

Actually, if the interp event is before Champ Gold, it's a perfect warm-up really...no jumps above a lutz are allowed anyway, and you get 1:40 to skate and warm-up for the championship round.

[icecatepairs]

thak you skater1964 and lovepairs for your support. i feel no need to justify why skating a competitive event 1/2 prior to taking he ice for the champinship gold ladies event is a conflict. anyone who has skated more than one event at this level within an hour of each other would not need an explaination. the interp event falls between the official warmup and competition event. I know some people who take that long to change and relace the skates. i wear customized plastic ankle braces in each skate sand it does take me longer to get my skates on as i would have to take it all apart to change costumes and then get them on again. oh yeah and there is the issue of mental focus. maybe some peiple don't need this , but its worked for me for the last 6 years to be mentally focused before a program.(at least i have alwasy come out alive and somewhat with my dignitly when the music ends..what else can we ask for at our age) oh and we all know that , events never run behind right? the events being within a 1/2 hour of each other is basically the same thing as at the same time. Based on the number of people who have emailed me, pm's me and called the usfsa as well because they are in the same situation seem to agree. last year i skated a packed gold pairs program ( to say the least) for 3:10 and about an hour and 1/2 later took the ice for championship ladies gold and had to try to skate a program with three doubles and 2 axles and plenty of combo spins and footwork. it was not the best situation. anyone who has had to do this can tell you that.


I never claimed one event was harder than another. so lets not out that on me. however maybe some peoples interp programs are a bunch of light skating that they can use for a warmup. i don't skate to josh groban. when i am done with the crazy combo spins, acroabtics on ice, and breakdancing on the ice in the program i might have used a litlte energy. i have see some other people do interp programs in past years that blow the water out of a lot of freestye skates.

the other issue i would like to adress is the depends how you train thing. i do triple run throughs of my freestyle program (yes with the jumps) in practice . sometimes after a 2 hour pairs practice . somewhere in there i run the interp. i am not saying one person is harder worker than another if they choose to do this or not. its simply how i choose to train to prepare. maybe it makes me the weaker athlete becaue i have to do this to keep up. that doesn't mean i want my championship gold skate to look like that 3rd run through. last year my partner and i both trained our pairs program back to back with our singles programs in order to prepare for that situation. it was still mentally and physically difficult to do it at nationals. so lets say from an endurance perspective is it possible. sure. but no one at any level should be asked to do this at nationals. silver ladies 4 conflict is just as important as mine.

the bottom line is that eveyones schedule conflict problems are justified. when people complained that their evnets conflicted with their travel plans, that seemd valid. when there events conflicted with their pr prepared days off from work that seemd valid as well. then the schedule was changed to accomadate these situations and those of us who sucked it up the first two time got screwed inthe final version. and suddenly multilple skates back to back is not valid.? its not like it conflicts with my plans for flute lessons. its a conflict created by the scheduling commitee. so if there are people out there who think its no big deal to do that and not try to have the problem resolved, thats fine for you to choose to skate it that way all the more power to you.. i would not insult you for that choice. i would applaud your effort but i would be compassionate to the fact that that might not allow you your best skate. I choose not to sit by and accept that without protest. i do not have to justify that choice to anyone but myself.

I spoke to someone (who's name i cannot disclose) at the usfsa headquarters today and they consider any event that close togehter to be a "ridiculous conflict" thats the most importnat opinion in my mind. apparently so do the 50 other people who called for the same reason.

i have read and sympathized with so much that has been posted here and even gone to bat for anyone i could in letters and phone calls. to then be told in so many words to suck it up. if you go back through my posts i have never made a negative reference to another skater on this forum. i'm sorry that you feel it empowers you to so so. I guess i thought we were all venting among friends. If i go to dallas and fall on every element and finish dead last , i would like to know that i was at least given the fair oppurtunilty to put my best foot foward. the rest will have been my responsibility to step up to the plate. everyones performance is that important regardless of the level, and everyone should be given the same fart opportunity as their competitiors.

enough of all of this . its time to focus on skating . i wish everyone the best of luck in dallas, and i mean everyone. i will not lower myself to the standard of judging anyones grievence. if it is of concern to them it is important.

see you all on the ice. i will be ther cheering for my friends in broze just as loud as my two friends in championship masters.

[icecatepairs]

skate1964, thank you for being supportive:bow: and i didn't mean to discredit anything you said in my defense..i hear you about the extra added tension at a championhip event. you feel it too huh?8O after i reread my post it sounded like i didn't appreciate your going to bat for me and thats not the case...for the record...i feel it a sectionals more!!! getting an invite o the party is harder than attending it!!

[Mrs Redboots]

It must be very frustrating for you.... dancers have to deal with this the whole time, as we have two compulsory dances which, in most competitions, are skated back to back - and they can be dances of very different character, like a waltz and a cha-cha, or a tango and a blues. We often don't even get time to change our dresses, and have to dance a blues in a Latin dress, or a waltz in a Blues dress..... it's not easy! But it's do-able, I suppose because it's how dance is. Much harder for free skaters, who aren't used to changing mindset at a moment's notice!

However, I'm sure that a skater of your calibre - and let's face it, you are good - will be able to handle it.

[manleywoman]

iceskatepairs...I don't think anyone disagrees with you that scheduling conflicts are awful. It's happened to many of us at least once. And ANs is a bear to schedule. This year it's been disastrously bad. But it is doable to skate your two programs within an hour. It's a pain in the ###, but doable. Especially if you train the way you do with triple run throughs, if anyone can handle it it's you. You're more than prepared. So try not to worry abot it and skate the best you can. Sometimes I've done my best programs when I've been more tired than usual, so you may surprise yourself.

[flo]

Mrs. Redboots - good point. I've watched many of my dancer friends scramble into other costumes. Fortunately they are well trained for this.
Icecatepairs, as Manley said, no one disagrees with the fact that the schedule sucks - but also right in that you are also well trained and capable of this and rising to the occasion. The best of luck.

[jp1andOnly]

I'd be royaly pissed off if I did my one event only to find out the other arena was a 1/2 hour ahead and they couldn't hold my other event.

Silliness.

iceskatepairs...I don't think anyone disagrees with you that scheduling conflicts are awful. It's happened to many of us at least once. And ANs is a bear to schedule. This year it's been disastrously bad. But it is doable to skate your two programs within an hour. It's a pain in the ###, but doable. Especially if you train the way you do with triple run throughs, if anyone can handle it it's you. You're more than prepared. So try not to worry abot it and skate the best you can. Sometimes I've done my best programs when I've been more tired than usual, so you may surprise yourself.

[sk8er1964]

skate1964, thank you for being supportive:bow: and i didn't mean to discredit anything you said in my defense..i hear you about the extra added tension at a championhip event. you feel it too huh?8O after i reread my post it sounded like i didn't appreciate your going to bat for me and thats not the case...for the record...i feel it a sectionals more!!! getting an invite o the party is harder than attending it!!

That's ok - I knew what you meant. I also knew other folks would hammer me for saying what I said anyways. As I'm sure you know, I'm not talking about personal nerves, I'm talking about the tension, the expectations (both internal and external) that surround championship events. And I would not have believed it either, if I hadn't experienced it myself. Hang in there!

[daisies]

Icecatepairs, as Manley said, no one disagrees with the fact that the schedule sucks - but also right in that you are also well trained and capable of this and rising to the occasion. The best of luck.
Ditto from me.

icecatepairs, your post suggests -- well, actually, states flat out -- that those of us who don't think it's a conflict haven't been in your shoes. We have. It's not that we're not sympathetic -- and we agree it's not the best situation -- but we know it's doable. You sound like you are well-trained, so put that training to use, get out there, and kick some butt!

[coskater64]

Icatepairs, you are going to do fine, you are well trained and you've done this event before. The scheduling is obviously, less than ideal and I don't think anyone envys your position. You will do fine and like you mentioned, getting there...is 1/2 the battle and you've already done that.:lol:

[lovepairs]

The point is not Icecate being able to "suck it up," or rally to this situation. The point is a poorly conceived schedule, and the incompetence that put it together. It's typical when something like this happens that the person who is put out by it has to either swallow the loose of money, or swallow it up emotionally. So, everyone cheers Icecate on with "come on you can do it, you can do it!" We know she's a tough cookie and can do whatever she sets her mind, too, but that's not the point. The point is that we need competent people appointed to these assignments/positions who are really interested in doing a good job and seeing the project through. This is what we should be focusing upon: finding a way to send a message to the USFSA that we won't tolerate this type of inconsideration anylonger, rather wasting our energy telling Iceskate to "suck it up."

Redboots, I'm sure if they could easily find a way NOT to put your od back to back with another one of your dances that you would welcome that rather than always having to tolorate skating the tango cha cha lango (or, whatever it's called) in your Polka outfit. :P

Come on people as "adult skaters" by definition we are already "sucking it up" we don't need anymore superfulous pressure that could have easily been avoided in the first place if there was a competent at the helm putting this schedule together.

[manleywoman]

Come on people as "adult skaters" by definition we are already "sucking it up" we don't need anymore superfulous pressure that could have easily been avoided in the first place if there was a competent at the helm putting this schedule together.
Again, I don't disagree with you. But now that the schedule's been set, I'd rather put a positive spin on it and let any skater know that they can handle it rather than dwell on the bad. And in the meantime work on getting more help and recognition from the USFS for adult skating.

And if you think this only happens in adult skating and never happens to the kids, you'd be quite wrong. I seem to recall a huge event recently (at this year's Nationals?) that the men's event ran late into an evening and their practice ice was scheduled at crack of dawn the next day. Many of the men missed it and #####ed about the scheduling. Clearly sometimes it just happens.

[lovepairs]

We are all putting a positive spin on it. Believe me, even though I sent in a check for $127 worth of practice ice, which was never confirmed, I know that when I get to Dallas that my partner and I might not have been scheduled in for the practice ice. We've already googled all of the rinks in Dallas, just incase we have to make due. I agree with you, too: it is what it is now, and we have to make due with it, and have a lot of fun in the process--we've all waited all year for this--we all know how to "suck it up," and we will all make due.

However, if everyone is complacent with "this just happens sometimes" then nothing will change, and you can be guaranteed that this will happen, again, if not in Chicago then maybe the next one. Again, it was uncalled for that it happened to us, and it is uncalled for when this happens to the kids. I think we need to suggest/demand that someone be appointed (even two years out) to come up with a schedule that is not perfect, but is reasonable for Adult Nationals, which takes into account conflicting competitive levels as well as adult needs to make arrangments, at least, a month (if not two months) in advance. This new schedule is ratified and used as a boiler plate for every AN--a schedule that works and is dependable from year to year. AN is always one week long, held on the same days, and should only be bid out to rinks and homeclubs that can guarantee us the entire facility for this week. Believe me, I am going to be in the North Rink at 7:10pm on Thursday the 30th to see if there is a Hockey game, public session, or kids party, because I really do believe that this is where all the trouble started--with this big hole in the schedule on Thursday night, which I think is why everything got bumped up to Wed. and the schedule so radically shifted. If anyone would like to join me on Thurday night to see why our competition ends at 7:10pm that evening, I'd love the company. I'll be in the stands--see you then! :D

[twokidsskatemom]

Again, I don't disagree with you. But now that the schedule's been set, I'd rather put a positive spin on it and let any skater know that they can handle it rather than dwell on the bad. And in the meantime work on getting more help and recognition from the USFS for adult skating.

And if you think this only happens in adult skating and never happens to the kids, you'd be quite wrong. I seem to recall a huge event recently (at this year's Nationals?) that the men's event ran late into an evening and their practice ice was scheduled at crack of dawn the next day. Many of the men missed it and #####ed about the scheduling. Clearly sometimes it just happens.
Amen to that. At ISI worlds last year, it ran 5 days at 4 different rinks, all over the local area., some 40 miles apart. Im sure it was hard to do, but if you want it bad enough you do suck it up and deal.
My daughters last comp, she had events at 8am, 7pm and in between.Its just part of skating. They didnt mess up because you are an adult and they dont support adults. They just made a huge mistake !!
I wish everyone well !!! We have an adult ice dancer going from up here.

[JulieN]

Any schedule that puts any event with anyone skating a championship event within 24 hours of the championship event is, IM-very-HO, stupid.

I think we need to suggest/demand that someone be appointed (even two years out) to come up with a schedule that is not perfect, but is reasonable for Adult Nationals, which takes into account conflicting competitive levels

Well, I don't think it is possible to come up with a schedule that takes place in 4 days (Wed-Sat), and satisfy your 24 hour requirement. If someone is entered in a dance event, they will have an Initial Round and a Final Round. Two years ago, I could have entered Pre-Gold Dance, Championship Dance, Bronze Ladies, and Masters Interp. I think there was someone who once entered dance, pairs, singles and interp at various levels. There's just too many people who enter multiple events, and add to that the complications of the levels. Plus you never know how many will enter at each level, or if they will have qualifying rounds, etc...

As a skater, if I enter multiple events, I would expect that there is a possibility that my events will be back to back. But what I also expect is that the LOC will do their best to ensure that my events are not at the same time.

I think the original schedule (the one in the announcement and what they've used for years) is pretty good and maybe they should just stick to that.

Edited: Sorry -- but I originally thought those quotes were from the same person... now I'm too lazy to edit my post :lol:

[sexyskates]

I just noticed the other night that the Silver Ladies 4 final round is running simultaneously as the Silver Interp Comedy 4 on the two rink surfaces. As in the past there is bound to be some last minute scheduling adjustments for problems like these (although it is unsettling). They always adjust for a genuine sametime conflict, but the interval between the events may still be tight. Changing into an elaborate character interp costume is difficult to do quickly - but I've done it once before. I actually was so focused on making the costume changes that I didn't have time to get nervous about the skating!

[lovepairs]

Okay, you all want to keep dealing with these problems and take the "suck it up" approach--be my guest.

I'm very interested in working with other adult skaters who are interested in affecting some change for the future that is for the better. I suppose we will all find one another at AN, and, perhaps, have a chance to talk about this with appointees of the USFSA adult committee. I'm certain that there is something concrete that we can do together so that this type of fiasco never happens, again.

[2salch0w]

Hey everyone. Here's my two cents ...

- Nobody should have to skate 2 events so close together, but if anyone can do it, Icecate can. I personally agree w/ the person that said it'd make a nice warm-up for the freestyle event, but that's an individual thing. Costume change is the tricky thing. And mental preparation is an area where ymmv.

- The organizers should have a policy that every attempt will be made to avoid conflicts, then state the priority for conflict avoidance (e.g. a skater shouldn't have to do singles and pairs on the same day), then have a quick & easy refund for that which cannot be avoided.

- I'd imagine that in a well-attended event with a number of people entering greater than 3 events, it must get to be a big puzzle. Mathematically speaking, it must be hard. I'm picturing them with a big table and little tokens for each skater, like when doing a seating chart at a wedding. :) It's like that 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon game -- "We can't do silver men on Thursday because Tim is skating pairs with Tara that day, and we can't do pairs on Friday because Tara is doing champ. gold that day, and Judy can't do pairs on Saturday because she's doing her freestyle, and Marna is doing interp. on Saturday so her pairs can't go then but Wednesday would be good but Stephen has silver then - back to Tim!" LOL

- I agree with the person that said the 24 hr rule would drag AN out for a week. But maybe you can never have the skater have to go twice w/in 4 hours.

So here's my suggestion ... You create a policy that states a "best attempt" to not schedule conflicts for skaters, with a guarantee that certain conflicts will not exist, then list those out. For example, a skater will not have to do a freestyle and pairs skate on the same day. Then you list out the conflicts that will be avoided if possible in order of priority. You clearly state that those conflicts at the bottom of the list may happen, for example, interp clashing with pairs. Then you give the skater an automatic refund if they choose to withdraw after the final schedule is posted.

We all have to be practical about it. Let's say next year at AN I enter silver men, interp, pairs, and pairs interp (if they have it by then.) My partner (Icecate) is in pairs and pairs interp, champ gold, gold, and interp. Right there somebody will have a conflict that won't be ideal. So you make your choice and you may not get to do an event. It's like going to Disney World - what ride are you not going to do becasue you just don't have time in the day?

Tim

[Mrs Redboots]

Redboots, I'm sure if they could easily find a way NOT to put your od back to back with another one of your dances that you would welcome that rather than always having to tolorate skating the tango cha cha lango (or, whatever it's called) in your Polka outfit. :P At some competitions they do - all the dancers, from the lowest to the highest, do their first dance, then they all do their second dance. And the 2nd round, if there is one, is done either later on or on another day, depending on the length of the competition. But that doesn't always happen, and wouldn't necessarily work if it did.

Okay, you all want to keep dealing with these problems and take the "suck it up" approach--be my guest.The point is, there's nothing that can be done for this year, alas. Skaters have two choices - to "suck it up", to use your mysterious phrase, and skate anyway, despite the inconvenience, or to withdraw and take the inevitable financial loss. Most people would, I think, prefer to skate if it's humanly possible!

Once the event is over, I hope - and expect - everybody will make a Great Big Noisy Fuss to the Adult Committee and any other appropriate bodies, to ensure that safeguards are in place so that such a muddle doesn't happen again.

[lovepairs]

tim,

Thank you for being a "voice of reason." I agree with all of your suggestions, and this is exactly what I'm hoping for, that is: that some type of forum can take place at Dallas AN where we can talk to USFSA officials about what happened, make suggestions, and try to correct the situation, so that it never happens this drastically, again. With the understanding that nothing will ever be perfect, but better.

Redboots,

No one was saying to try to fix it for this competition. The damage is aready done. I was suggesting to try to pre-empt this from happening, again in the future. Not just sitting back and say "oh, well...nothing we can do...let's just get rammed up the a** again next year...oh, well..." And that's what's annoying me about the "suck it up, there's nothing we can do" attitude. Well, we are sucking it up for now, and there is something we can do for the future by making those at the top hear intelligent suggestions, such as Tim had to offer above.

[Mrs Redboots]

Oh, I don't think anybody was saying "Nothing we can do" about future years - at least, that's not how I read it! I think they were saying that about this year.... and I was therefore reading you as saying that people ought to be making a Great Big Noisy Fuss this year! Which they will, I'm quite sure, after the event - too late, as you so rightly say, to change things now for this year.

[flo]

No one has ever suggested that we can not do anything to prevent major scheduling problems in the future, nor that we lacked the desire to do so. And remember before anyone believes they are alone working for the interests and greater good of all adult skating that there are several of us here who worked for years to get this adult program started and maintained. We did this by worki ng with the USFSA, those who came before us and with eachother. Perhaps our responses are such because we know how very much it took to have adult skating where it is now, scheduling conflicts and all.

[lovepairs]

So, all of you veterans who have worked so hard for all these years with the USFSA from the very start, keep doing it. I'm going skating.

[Novice Spirals]

I've just read all the threads and I must admit there are some valid points raised. However, for someone like icecatepairs, who has competed faithfully for years on the adult level and given so much respect to the adult skating community, she deserves respect. she shouldn't have to withdraw from any event and yes, Championship events ARE stressful. I support her and understand her frustration. I'm not a championship level skater, but I know many of them and understand what they go through and all I can say is , I worry about landing my axel in my program, but I don't have to worry about any doubles, complex combo spins and rabid footwork sequences. Her concerns are valid.
It's all well and good to look on the bright side, but Adult Nationals has been going on for years and there shouldn't be such a fiasco with the schedule at this point. I feel badly for the LOC--they are taking a lot of heat for something they didn't do wrong. The Adult Skating committee has worked tirelessly on behalf of all of us and I thank them for that.
Let's hope Chicago is better scheduled...that said--Good luck everyone in Dallas and show them that no scheduling snafoo can affect their performances. I wish everyone a great skate! :bow:

[techskater]

This was already discussed by the Chicago LOC. The Chief Referee was in attendance. I am sure he will keep this mess in mind when creating next year's schedule. It should also be discussed with each LOC in subsequent years.

[twokidsskatemom]

[QUOTE]Championship events ARE stressful[QUOTE]


I dont think they are any more stressful than any other comp.Depends on how you handle the stress.

[sexyskates]

I see on the Dallas website (and I also received e mail), that further changes to the schedule will be posted at the Starcenter once we arrive. I am sure that the LOC is doing their best to fit all the events in (I sincerely hope!), with less stress to the skaters. So everybody, watch the schedule carefully at the competition because changes will be necessary.
Still it's much more relaxing to know the schedule in advance and be mentally prepared for how the competition days will go.

[techskater]

I don't thing DAYS will be changed once we get there (people are already on return flights and not everyone goes for the whole week). They may hold that Interp 4 event or the Silver 4 FR event in time to get those people in there or they may move Masters Interp 1/2 to earlier in the day or something.

[sexyskates]

Right - I think the schedule times will be tweaked but the days will stay the same. Everyone should just watch their event start times.

[sk8er1964]

[QUOTE]Championship events ARE stressful[QUOTE]


I dont think they are any more stressful than any other comp.Depends on how you handle the stress.

They are. Trust me. You may have the same level of personal stress, but the external stress is much higher in the championship events.

[twokidsskatemom]

More stressful than regionals?Nats? Your first comp with an axle? Your first comp at all?Skating at Jr nats?Skating at lake placid?Skating in a group of 60 for intemediate ladies?Skating against the book?
Im sure people who compete at ALL of those events think the same.

[daisies]

Championship events ARE stressful

They are. Trust me. You may have the same level of personal stress, but the external stress is much higher in the championship events.

I wasn't aware there was any external stress in adult skating. It's not like we have the media hounding us! LOL!

Really, to each his/her own. I've done Championship twice at AN, and honestly I find Interp much more stressful! :)

[sk8er1964]

More stressful than regionals? yes Nats?No Your first comp with an axle? absolutely your first comp at all?YupSkating at Jr nats?Probably notSkating at lake placid? Unless you're the '80 hockey team, LP isn't that special Skating in a group of 60 for intemediate ladies?You have to finish high in your QR - same as AN Adult Bronze Skating against the book?I believe in the USFS they call that a test -- way easier, IMO, than a champ eventIm sure people who compete at ALL of those events think the same. I'm sure that they do. However, they won't know the truth of the feeling of a champ event, kid or adult, until they get there.

This is the last time I'll comment on this. You can't explain it to those who haven't experienced it. Daisies, I think you are an exception to the norm - because a majority of the folks I've seen look like they feel the way I am describing, even of they won't admit it. Heck - Plushenko looked before the short program at the Oly's like he had swallowed a hedgehog - didn't make him skate any worse, but it showed on his face before the event!

[twokidsskatemom]

Nope, skating against the book isnt a test. Its skating alone, and you have to place at 80 or above to place first. Some say its harder than skating with someone else.USFSA and ISI both has comps where you skate against the book.
I guess some of us will never know since you are going to the champs and the rest of us arent.
I would think regionals have alot more skaters, and I know JR nats and nats do. Cameras and lots of people.
And yes LP is very special to all the ice dance teams who compete there every year, from ALL OVER the WORLD.Its a big big comp and it means alot to the ice dancers.

[sk8guy71]

I can understand how competing in a Campionship event would be more stressful. Granted, it's self-imposed stress, but I understand it. (Disclaimer: I am relatively new to all this and I've never competed, that being a long way off for me). From my understand, almost all of AN is an open competition, meaning that you can just register to compete and go. For championship events, you have had to actually qualify at regionals and then sectionals. Therefore, if you're shooting for AN Championships, you don't compete only at AN -- you have to compete in 2 previous competitions to get there. Surely, that must be a *huge* anxiety builder. AN seems a long way off when you compete in Regionals, but if you then qualify for Sectionals, it becomes something that starts to seem like a reality. If you qualify for AN from Sectionals, the thought about actually medaling at AN becomes a tangible possibility and your anxiety level heightens even more. It would seem like riding a roller coaster with each successive drop being higher and higher, the tension building and building each time. It makes sense to me.

[Thin-Ice]

(Disclaimer: I am relatively new to all this and I've never competed, that being a long way off for me). From my understand, almost all of AN is an open competition, meaning that you can just register to compete and go. For championship events, you have had to actually qualify at regionals and then sectionals.

Point of Information: For AN, you qualify by going through Championship qualifying at Sectionals.. there is no Regionals (yet) for Adult skating.

And I'm staying out of the "How stressful is Championship level?" discussion since there is NO way I'll ever be on that side of the coin.:lol: But BIG "congratulations" and a heartfelt "Thank You!" to those of you who are that good. You inspire the rest of us!

[flo]

Sk8guy71,
Although Adult Nationals is open, it's more than "you can just register to compete and go". You do have to take your tests to be able to compete, just as you do for the championship rounds. Also with the open rounds you do have to compete twice at nats., once in the initial round and then the final rounds, which for some is very stressful. Also many adults compete in several events before nationals and go through the same thought process leading up to Nationals as you described for the championship events. You get to know the competitors, see who's out there and so forth. At least with the championship events you know who will be competing, in the open events you could have a skater who did not compete prior to Nationals and pop up and surprise all. Also very often, when this was allowed, the skaters who entered the championship events and same open event would end up in relatively the same place (with adjustment for numbers of competitors) in the rankings. Actually this would be an interesting analysis to see if there is/was any significant difference of outcomes in open and championship events (sorry, scientist in me).

[daisies]

Unless you're the '80 hockey team, LP isn't that special
Wow.... just.... wow. Just goes to show how everyone is different!

Daisies, I think you are an exception to the norm.
LOL, so I have been told -- in more than just skating! (Actually, I think the exact words have been, "You're not normal." Bwah!)

because a majority of the folks I've seen look like they feel the way I am describing, even of they won't admit it.
Well, yeah ... that's fine. But that's stress they put on themselves. I'm still at a loss as to what the external stress is, however.

Heck - Plushenko looked before the short program at the Oly's like he had swallowed a hedgehog - didn't make him skate any worse, but it showed on his face before the event!
Hmm... Olympics, Adult Nationals. Olympics, Adult Nationals.

:: ponders ::

Big diff!

[coskater64]

We're all different, and carry different baggage... I get extremely nervous in the champ events much more so than the open event. The open events are much less stressful because I have no expectation it's more free. Last year, I just for the most part fell apart---then again the whole group was interesting. It's much easier this year because I just do what I do, it's not ohhh there's one of the top skaters (8O )in mids, easterns, pacifics. You carry the expectations of your section,... it is different. Or at least it was for me.

Just MYO.

:lol:

[daisies]

You carry the expectations of your section.
What does that mean? (I'm not asking that to be problematic, I really don't know what it means!) Thanks!

[twokidsskatemom]

I think what bothered me was the inportantance of AN vs anything else. I think it does a diservice to all skaters, not matter if they are 3 and in tots or 53 and a first comp for them.No one is better than another and everyone handles stress in a different way.
I know that is in inportand to those going and I wish them good luck and support.

[Ice T]

Anyone heard anything yet about the practice ice schedule?

[Thin-Ice]

Anyone heard anything yet about the practice ice schedule?

I received an email with my practice ice listed on it. I have a couple of questions about what exactly it says.. but I'm going to wait until I get there to ask.. since that is LESS THAN A WEEK FROM NOW!!!!!

[Thin-Ice]

Unless you're the '80 hockey team, LP isn't that special



I guess this is what makes us all so very different. The whole reason I even WENT to 1996 AN was because it was at Lake Placid... and I figured this would be my only chance to skate there. I didn't even expect to do well. But to be able to say I skated on the rink where the 1980 hockey team won the Gold, where Charlie Tickner won the Bronze, where Tai and Randy should have won an Olympic medal, where Sonja Henie won Gold.. where there is sooooo much skating history.. THAT was VERY special to me... no matter how I personally skated. (And I managed to survive the experience) I have been back since.. and everytime it STILL feels special.

(But that's just me, a California Girl... who DID grow up in the snow and ice and cold... admiring those who were good at winter sports... while I was curled up in the library with a book or 10. And yes, there are lots of places in California where we have four seasons.:) )

[flo]

Have to say that my favorite location for AN is Lake Placid. We usually go up for the week and rent a house on the lake and enjoy. We've gone to the ski jump, been on the louge, and have had a great time. I'm hoping another Nationals will be held there soon! Also because Lake Placid is such a small place, you really get a great "feel" for Nationals. At many of the other venues you only see your fellow competitors at the rink or hotel. In Lake Placid the streets are lined with skaters in club jackets from everywhere. We see eachother in the shops, at the Olympic sites and all around the village. It's quite an experience.

[Isk8NYC]

In mid-winter, Lake Placid has a wonderful annual ISI competition that's very popular. It's organized by Riverdale Ice. The village is lovely; it snows every day at that time, the shops are crowded with skaters. I also loved the "people scenery" of team jackets and pin trading. We always stayed at a hotel close to the skating center so we wouldn't need to find parking. The main street is pretty much "walking distance."

[MusicSkateFan]

My vote would be to have Adult Nationals in VEGAS.......ADULT being the key word and what better place to be than Vegas!

I dont think they have the facilities there!:cry:


DC would be great too....We have a new rink to open in May in Arlington right on a metro stop with two surfaces....the problem is that it is practice ice for the Washington Caps and it would be very difficult to get both surfaces while hockey is still going on.....Have to plan it while the Caps are on the road!

[Debbie S]

My vote would be to have Adult Nationals in VEGAS.......ADULT being the key word and what better place to be than Vegas!Can't get Vegas out of your mind, huh? :P Hey, look at it this way, you get to go to Europe for the summer - there's an exotic locale! Vegas will be there for your next vacation. :)

And I vote for AN in DC!

[LoopLoop]

Vive la difference!
I would absolutely, positively NOT go to AN in Vegas. Personally I hate the place and end up with continual migraines there from the noise, lights, smoke, etc.

I don't think DC would work for AN; hotel prices here are awfully high. I'm waiting anxiously for IceWorks to bid. They've done a great job with South Atlantics and Easterns (standard track), and any club that can run Souths smoothly can handle any event out there. Plus they'd be able to have practice ice in the same building, which is a big plus.

[flo]

Ice works has done a great job. DC would be close, but expensive for out of town folks. If the attendance continues to decrease other 2 surface rinks will be able to bid.

[PattyP]

Vive la difference!
I would absolutely, positively NOT go to AN in Vegas. Personally I hate the place and end up with continual migraines there from the noise, lights, smoke, etc.

ITA. Can't stand that town.

I think the 1980 rink at Lake Placid is special. I do seem to have a whole other level of nerves when I step out on that ice a look around the arena. When I skated the exibition there in 2004 in front of that big crowd I was a wreck! But it was an experience I'll never forget.

I have always found the qualifying rounds the most stressful as a Bronze and Silver skater. The thought of messing up and not making final round always added an extra level of nerves for me. At Gold...no pressure as I just stink. :giveup: Ch. events? Don't know...need to get there first! I can only hope that someday I will be able to give my 2 cents on what that experience is like.

[jazzpants]

My vote would be to have Adult Nationals in VEGAS.......ADULT being the key word and what better place to be than Vegas!What goes on in Vegas, STAYS in Vegas!!! ;)

I still vote for someplace in the San Francisco Bay Area!!! My next vote after that would be LA, NYC, or Hackensack (gotta love White Manna.) :yum: :bow:

PattyP, those women are a very tough group. Give yourself a break (and heal from that injury first!) I think eventually you will break thru that group and make it thru Sectionals to Nationals.

[Joan]

I received an email with my practice ice listed on it. I have a couple of questions about what exactly it says.. but I'm going to wait until I get there to ask.. since that is LESS THAN A WEEK FROM NOW!!!!!

Today, I called the lady (Colleen) who is sending out the schedules by email. As of this morning, she had gotten through the "F" s in the alphabet and she has about 500 people on her list, so those of us later in the alphabet have not gotten ours yet. We should get them by tomorrow, I suspect.

[Mrs Redboots]

I still vote for someplace in the San Francisco Bay Area!!! My next vote after that would be LA, NYC, or Hackensack (gotta love White Manna.) :yum: :bow:They were in Oakland in 1998 - I was there! The compulsory figures were competed at - sheesh, I'm tired & can't remember the name, but the one that is under threat that begins with B, I'll remember as soon as I've posted this. That was my first-ever trip to the USA - a friend and I started out in Boston (only I had a 24-hour tummy-bug and missed it all, grrrr!), then moved on to Boulder, Colorado, then to Oakland, and ended up in LA! A brilliant trip!

[lovepairs]

I vote for ICE HOUSE in Hackensack, NJ. Four incredible surfaces all lined up in a row! The last time we were there, my pairs partner and I found this incredible Whole Foods right on the Hudson--nothing like having lunch out on the dock watching the Manhattan Skyline and the boats going by--it was incredible--well, it was also summer, too! :P

Oh, there is also Cedar Lane with great restuarants. Fort Lee is also incredible for Japanese food, too. I love NJ, I miss it, I grew up there! The Marriott is right down the road from the rink, easy to get to, and, oh, so nice!

[daisies]

They were in Oakland in 1998 - I was there! The compulsory figures were competed at - sheesh, I'm tired & can't remember the name, but the one that is under threat that begins with B, I'll remember as soon as I've posted this.
Berkeley!

I'll never forget my figures event there. My group was huge. I did terrible loops ... as usual. LOL.

[flo]

I remember skating interpretive in Oakland- Schindler's List. I went to get practice ice and told them I was bronze, but that a silver session would be ok. They were insistient that I skate on a bronze session. I made final rounds and went back to get more practice ice, and remembered to tell them I was bronze. By that time the volunteers were exhausted and eye's were glazed over. She looked in her book, said "this will do" and signed me up for a master's practice ice! It was an interesting session at Berkley.8O
Right now I'm having a glass of wine from the vineyard in Lake Placid.

[manleywoman]

Let's list the places with three+ surfaces if not in the same facility at least within 5-7 miles away (Kansas City's 3rd surface was a bit far).

(1) Chicago (Bensenville, Northbrook/Glenview)
(2) Philadelphia/Aston (IceWorks...I beleive they did bid for AN 2007, and Dallas won)
(3) Hackensack, NJ (IceHouse)
(4) Ann Arbor (IceCube)
(5) Washington DC (Gardens Ice House, though they are not WFSC run, I bet it could be held there)
(6) Lake Placid
(7) Delaware (UDel/The Pond could probably do it)
(8) Dallas
(9) Westminster, CO (Ice Centre)
(10) San Jose
(11) Oakland/Berkeley (though I don't think it would ever go there again)
(12) Marlboro, MA

Any others?

Then hopefully you can all convince your clubs to bid on it. It's not hard...I was in the very small group of us that got the Chicago bid together. It's nice to say on the boards how you'd love it to be held at this place or that place, but it's UP TO US to get our clubs to do it! So get cracking people!!:lol: :lol:

[jazzpants]

Let's list the places with three+ surfaces if not in the same facility at least within 5-7 miles away (Kansas City's 3rd surface was a bit far).

(1) Chicago (Bensenville, Northbrook/Glenview)
(2) Philadelphia (IceWorks...I beleive they did bid for AN 2007, and Dallas won)
(3) Hackensack, NJ (IceHouse)
(4) Ann Arbor (IceCube)
(5) Washington DC (Gardens Ice House, though they are not WFSC run, I bet it could be held there)
(6) Lake Placid
(7) Delaware (UDel/The Pond could probably do it)
(8) Dallas

Any others?

Then hopefully you can all convince your clubs to bid on it. It's not hard...I was in the very small group of us that got the Chicago bid together. It's nice to say on the boards how you'd love it to be held at this place or that place, but it's UP TO US to get our clubs to do it! So get cracking people!!:lol: :lol:(9)San Jose
(10)Oakland/Berkeley

We've already been to (10)! I don't belong to (9) so I can't do much about it...

[JulieN]

Let's list the places with three+ surfaces if not in the same facility at least within 5-7 miles away
Ice Centre at the Promenade (http://www.icecentre.com/)in Westminster, CO (northern suburb of Denver) is great facility, with 3 ice surfaces. Junior Nationals was there back in December.

[jenlyon60]

(9)San Jose
(10)Oakland/Berkeley

We've already been to (10)! I don't belong to (9) so I can't do much about it...

Ice Works (Aston, PA [near Philly]). 4 sheets I believe

(Easterns was held there several years ago and Souths is being held there next season)

[Stormy]

Marlboro, MA has 5 sheets now in the same building. They had AN a few years back. I loved hosting AN!!

[sk8er1964]

Let's list the places with three+ surfaces if not in the same facility at least within 5-7 miles away (Kansas City's 3rd surface was a bit far).

(1) Chicago (Bensenville, Northbrook/Glenview)
(2) Philadelphia (IceWorks...I beleive they did bid for AN 2007, and Dallas won)
(3) Hackensack, NJ (IceHouse)
(4) Ann Arbor (IceCube)
(5) Washington DC (Gardens Ice House, though they are not WFSC run, I bet it could be held there)
(6) Lake Placid
(7) Delaware (UDel/The Pond could probably do it)
(8) Dallas
(9) Westminster, CO (Ice Centre)
(10) San Jose
(11) Oakland/Berkeley (though I don't think it would ever go there again)

Any others?

Then hopefully you can all convince your clubs to bid on it. It's not hard...I was in the very small group of us that got the Chicago bid together. It's nice to say on the boards how you'd love it to be held at this place or that place, but it's UP TO US to get our clubs to do it! So get cracking people!!:lol: :lol:

I can think of lots of 2 sheet rinks in the Detroit area, and all of them are within 5-10 miles of another rink with one, two or three sheets. That's one of the joys of living in this area.

However, you hit the nail on the head -- you got to convince the clubs to host it! It's a huge undertaking. I applaud any club doing it - including Dallas! (Especially since the schedule snafu wasn't their fault.)

[coskater64]

Well being from CO I can say Jr. Nats was nicely done at the Promenade Center in Westminster CO, my rink w/ 2 sheets is just 15-20 minutes away and is also pretty nice we have a huge pool with slides and stuff for the kids and daycare plus gyms and all that, not that I've ever used that stuff. You can always ski after your events just about 2 hours away at huge resorts like Vail, Breckenridge, Keystone, Steamboat Springs or down south in Telluride or Aspen. What about the Legendary Broadmoor, skating in that main rink, it would be cool. Only problem, the altitude, you can always practice this summer @ Vail in July, at a scant 8000 ft of elevation, it welcomes adult skaters I've done it a few times.:P

I did like Lake Placid, and Marlborough, MA sounds interesting, I keep hearing the Aston rink is freezing cold not a plus, but hey 4 sheets is good. The rink in San Jose has 3 or 4 sheets, Pennisula is out of there, it was very nice. I would like to go west eventually, Dallas is a good start. I think Chicago will be fun for 2007.

[manleywoman]

Marlboro, MA has 5 sheets now in the same building. They had AN a few years back. I loved hosting AN!!
Thansk for the reminder. That was a great location. Please host again!

[Isk8NYC]

Montclair, NJ has two sheets in house on the College campus. The town has a seasonal indoor rink a short distance away.

Morristown, NJ has three sheets at Mennan Arena, and there's a fourth indoor sheet at a private tennis/skating complex nearby.

[Thin-Ice]

Berkeley!

I'll never forget my figures event there. My group was huge. I did terrible loops ... as usual. LOL.

Berkeley was my home ice then. I skated figures there everyday for years, but when it came time to compete, you would have thought I'd never seen ANY ice before based on how poorly I skated the Bronze figures!:roll:

[Thin-Ice]

The rink in San Jose has 3 or 4 sheets, Pennisula is out of there, it was very nice. I would like to go west eventually, Dallas is a good start. I think Chicago will be fun for 2007.

San Jose now has four sheets.. but the rink is the Sharks' practice facility... so either we have to hold AN late and make sure the Sharks don't qualify for ANY NHL play-offs... or schedule them for a very long road trip. But I don't think we'll have to worry too much about it. Peninsula is not a very adult-friendly club.:frus: :cry:

[Figureskates]

Have to say that my favorite location for AN is Lake Placid. We usually go up for the week and rent a house on the lake and enjoy. We've gone to the ski jump, been on the louge, and have had a great time. I'm hoping another Nationals will be held there soon! Also because Lake Placid is such a small place, you really get a great "feel" for Nationals. At many of the other venues you only see your fellow competitors at the rink or hotel. In Lake Placid the streets are lined with skaters in club jackets from everywhere. We see eachother in the shops, at the Olympic sites and all around the village. It's quite an experience.

Well we are hoping to host another one in the next few years. We had as much fun hosting it as the competitors in the event. I worked the registration table for the 2004 competition and it was great to meet a lot of you as well.

[Mrs Redboots]

Berkeley!

I'll never forget my figures event there. My group was huge. I did terrible loops ... as usual. LOL.I didn't watch the figures, but I remember meeting you for the first time that year!

There is a facility in Massachussets, but I can't remember the name of the town, which has 3 sheets - it's the place where they have (or had, a few years ago) an incredibly cheap adult session on a Saturday evening on the one pad reserved solely for free skating. We were there one week, and joined in, meeting some friends there. I thought at the time it would be a great place for Adult Nationals.

[lovepairs]

Manleywoman,

Please add The Gardens, Laural, MD to your list of rinks. A really nice facility with three ice surfaces, two of which are Olympic size and the other in NHL. There is also another rink close to it: Columbia, which is a single surface, but would work for practice spill over. :P

Oh, Michael Weiss trains here during the summer. My pairs partner and I had the privilege of being on the same practice ice with him a few times this past summer--what a nice guy! Really, Michael Weiss is one of the nicest guys on the ice: he turned our program music on for us, and came over to see if I was okay after a death spiral wipe out! Really, nice guy, and I might add--awesome skater--one of my favorites of all the men!

[blue111moon]

There is a facility in Massachussets, but I can't remember the name of the town, which has 3 sheets - it's the place where they have (or had, a few years ago) an incredibly cheap adult session on a Saturday evening on the one pad reserved solely for free skating. We were there one week, and joined in, meeting some friends there. I thought at the time it would be a great place for Adult Nationals.

You're thinking of Colonial FSC in Acton-Boxborough - Nashoba Valley Olympia Rinks.

They have three ice surfaces there but Rink 3 - the one they used for a lot of the adult sessions - lost it's roof in a horrific windstorm a couple motnhs back and repairs are taking longer than expected.

The problem with Colonial is that two of the three rinks have little or no spectator seating and nearby hotel space is limited.

New England FSC in Marlborough is hosting Adult Sectionals next year.

I just came back from two days in Aston, PA and at The Pond in Delaware. I didn't find either one very cold (although the coaches complained about it) but then I'm from Massachusetts. It's not cold if I can't see my breath. :) And if there's no snow drifting gently down from the holes in the roof, it's positively balmy.

[Terri C]

I didn't watch the figures, but I remember meeting you for the first time that year!

There is a facility in Massachussets, but I can't remember the name of the town, which has 3 sheets - it's the place where they have (or had, a few years ago) an incredibly cheap adult session on a Saturday evening on the one pad reserved solely for free skating. We were there one week, and joined in, meeting some friends there. I thought at the time it would be a great place for Adult Nationals.

I think you're referring to Nashoba Valley Olympia in Boxbourough. That's the home rink for Colonial FSC,which will be hosting Adult Easterns next year in that rink!

[Terri C]

Manleywoman,

Please add The Gardens, Laural, MD to your list of rinks. A really nice facility with three ice surfaces, two of which are Olympic size and the other in NHL. There is also another rink close to it: Columbia, which is a single surface, but would work for practice spill over. :P

I agree that the Gardens is a beautiful rink, with good proximity to BWI and National Airport, but the hotel prices are off the wall ! I discovered this when looking for a hotel for May Day Open.

[Joan]

You can always ski after your events just about 2 hours away at huge resorts like Vail, Breckenridge, Keystone, Steamboat Springs or down south in Telluride or Aspen.

I like that idea - First compete at AN and then go skiing. I'd love to see AN held in Denver.

[MusicSkateFan]

Denver....great...we will all need oxygen tanks! LOL I thought Colorado Springs would be nice...I have never been there......

Back to the topic of the schedule.....

My practice times are back to back! Ugh at least they are on Friday and I compete on Saturday....that is a bit better than before when my practices were scheduled...AFTER my event! My 20 min warmup looks to be in a good place for Sat. too!

[Mrs Redboots]

You're thinking of Colonial FSC in Acton-Boxborough - Nashoba Valley Olympia Rinks.

They have three ice surfaces there but Rink 3 - the one they used for a lot of the adult sessions - lost it's roof in a horrific windstorm a couple motnhs back and repairs are taking longer than expected.

The problem with Colonial is that two of the three rinks have little or no spectator seating and nearby hotel space is limited.That's indeed the one, JoAnne and Terri, thank you! I have only just heard about the roof - I do hope nobody was hurt. That's the second rink I've skated at that's lost its roof in recent months.... oh help!

In another place, on another subject, someone listed the multi-surface rinks in Mass:
Tri-Towne Arena - 2 North American
ICenter Salem - 1 North American, 1 Olympic
Nashoba Valley - 3 North American (1 temporarily out of commision;
collapsed roof)
New England Sports Center - 4 North American
Hockey Town - 3 North American, 1 outdoor
Flynn Rink - 1 North American, 1 "Kiddie sized" 25m x 25mI imagine that some of those (but perhaps not Nashoba Valley) might be suitable....

[flo]

Received my practice times, they're fine.

I don't know if Oakland would ever host AN again. It wasn't the best run nats, and the facility was far too small. There was no area inside to lift or get away from the crowds. Traffic was horrible and the practice rinks were not very close.

[sk8pics]

I just came back from two days in Aston, PA and at The Pond in Delaware. I didn't find either one very cold (although the coaches complained about it) but then I'm from Massachusetts.

Hey, you were in my neck of the woods! Actually, the Pond has been a bit warmer lately. It's not uncommon to see your breath there, have your eyes tearing as you skate, or for your fingers to turn purple, LOL! And hey, the coaches aren't working as hard as we are, so they always are colder! Anyway, hope you had a nice time.

[lovepairs]

Aston has been very very cold, lately, for some reason. This past Monday was unusually cold at The Pond, but they were working on the heating system and there was this slight smell of amonia in the air, as a result. This should be temporary, because The Pond is usually comfortable--temperature wise.

But, I have to say, the coldest rink in the universe is Hatfield, Ice World, in Colmar, PA. It is a meat freezer; even if you're working out really hard your toes are numb after about an hour on that ice. It's mostly a hockey rink, so they have to keep the ice really cold and hard, I suppose.

[Debbie S]

I agree that the Gardens is a beautiful rink, with good proximity to BWI and National Airport, but the hotel prices are off the wall ! I discovered this when looking for a hotel for May Day Open.If AN comes to Laurel, you can stay with me, Terri. :) Of course, the way I'm going, I may only be a spectator at future ANs! :frus:

[manleywoman]

lovepairs: the Gardens is already on the list. It was where i skated when I lived in DC (there and at Cabin John). I used to skate with Weiss too!

[sk8pics]

This past Monday was unusually cold at The Pond, but they were working on the heating system and there was this slight smell of amonia in the air, as a result. This should be temporary, because The Pond is usually comfortable--temperature wise.

That depends a lot on the outside temp, the day of the week, and which rink you are on. Sunday mornings, the NHL rink is freezing cold unless it is very hot and sunny outside. The Olympic rink is not usually as cold, but it can be quite nippy and I often need my second layer of fleece there, depending on what I'm doing. It's gotten better, though; I know a lot of people used to complain about the cold. Their ice has gotten quite nice, too, so a big thumbs up from me!

[CanAmSk8ter]

Chiming in with my scheduling issues. I listed my arrival time as late Tuesday afternoon, and it turns out I'll actually be arriving earlier than I thought; my flight lands at 11:30am. However, my official practice ice is at 8:45 am. I didn't see anything on the tentative schedule about a possibility of official practices that early on Tuesday (did I miss something?) or I would have flown down on Monday.

I also didn't have any unofficial practices listed in the email I got, despite the fact that I had prepaid for one. Is anyone else getting their unofficial practices listed in their emails, or do we just show up for one when we get there?

[flo]

Hi,
All of my practices are listed in my e-mail.

[flying~camel]

I haven't gotten my email notification yet (maybe they haven't gotten to the S's yet).

I didn't pre-register for practice ice and I'm only skating in 1 event that doesn't have a QR, so I know when I 'm skating, but I'd like to have that "official" notification just to make me feel better :??

[PattyP]

How about my neck of the woods.....Anaheim, CA

Anaheim Ice is a nice facility with 2 surfaces and there is another rink less that 5 miles away that also has 2 surfaces.

Then everyone can go to Disneyland after their events...HA! ;)

[Joan]

I haven't gotten my email notification yet (maybe they haven't gotten to the S's yet).

I didn't pre-register for practice ice and I'm only skating in 1 event that doesn't have a QR, so I know when I 'm skating, but I'd like to have that "official" notification just to make me feel better :??

I have not heard yet either, and I'm in the "M"s. Yesterday morning, Colleen Newman said she'd contacted through the "F"s so I thought she would surely get at least as far as mid-alphabet by today! I want to know when my practice ice sessions are!

[daisies]

Chiming in with my scheduling issues. I listed my arrival time as late Tuesday afternoon, and it turns out I'll actually be arriving earlier than I thought; my flight lands at 11:30am. However, my official practice ice is at 8:45 am. I didn't see anything on the tentative schedule about a possibility of official practices that early on Tuesday (did I miss something?) or I would have flown down on Monday.

I also didn't have any unofficial practices listed in the email I got, despite the fact that I had prepaid for one. Is anyone else getting their unofficial practices listed in their emails, or do we just show up for one when we get there?

When you say your "official practice ice is at 8:45am" on Tuesday, do you mean your official warmup? The 20-minute one? If so, that's very odd. There shouldn't be any official warmups until Wednesday. You're sure that Tuesday one isn't a regular, 30-minute practice? I am perplexed by your dilemma!

My e-mail listed both the one 30-minute practice I paid for and the one 20-minute warmup for my event.

[flo]

Some of the confusion may be that "(official)" is listed next to one of my 30 minute proctice sessions on Wednesday. Our warm ups are indicated as WU.

[Stormy]

How do you guys know where Easterns is next year?! I hadn't heard anything about that. Is it Marlboro (New England FSC) or Colonial FSC that's gotten it?

[jazzpants]

How do you guys know where Easterns is next year?! I hadn't heard anything about that. Is it Marlboro (New England FSC) or Colonial FSC that's gotten it?Same question for Pacific Coast Adult Sectionals too please!!! :mrgreen:

[techskater]

Colonial for Easterns and All Year for Coasts are the unofficial

[Stormy]

AWESOME!!! I would have know if New England FSC had gotten it, that's my club. Colonial is only a half hour away, and next year I hope to be qualifying in Championship Gold. Wow, this gives me some goals to work for. I'm really excited!!

[Thin-Ice]

I don't know if Oakland would ever host AN again. It wasn't the best run nats, and the facility was far too small. There was no area inside to lift or get away from the crowds. Traffic was horrible and the practice rinks were not very close.

Other than that how did you like 1998 AN, Mrs. Lincoln?

Sorry Flo, but your comments just come across as rather harsh. I know computers don't allow for inflections... but geesh!

I think St. Moritz did the best it could under the circumstances. And as someone from the West Coast, I thought it was WONDERFUL to not have to travel through 2-3 time zones to AN (for both time and $$ reasons) for a change. We had PCAS there this year.. and I think most of the pairs found enough space to practice off-ice lifts.. although of course, there were fewer pairs at PCAS this year than there are at AN now.

[manleywoman]

Thin-ice, I'm sure they did they best they could under the circumstances, but it's hardly a well-kept secret that many many adults were not happy with how Oakland went. I didn't think Flo's comments were off the mark.

But it would be nice for the Pacs people if they didn't have to fly east every time. Again, that's up to the Pacs people to actually find a cooperative club and a facility that works and bid on Adult Nationals.

[flo]

Thin - they're not harsh at all. It was not the best facility to have such a large event. The practice rinks were too far form the primary rink, and after Oakland this was taken into consideration in the selection of future locations. The traffic was also a factor in that the shuttles themselves could not get to the rinks on time.
We were also told not to leave the building alone, that the surrounding area was not safe. There were people changing in the halls also because the dressing rooms were packed and dark. I'm sure the LOC did what they could, but they can't make a space larger and better suited for what we needed. I'ts great the west coast folks did not have to go far, and I'd be happy to go to another nats out there, just at a better suited facility.

[Mrs Redboots]

Thin - they're not harsh at all. It was not the best facility to have such a large event. The practice rinks were too far form the primary rink, and after Oakland this was taken into consideration in the selection of future locations. The traffic was also a factor in that the shuttles themselves could not get to the rinks on time.I remember one of the shuttle drivers telling me that they had been given a totally unrealistic schedule - the skaters, not surprisingly, were blaming the drivers, but the drivers blamed the organisers!

We were also told not to leave the building alone, that the surrounding area was not safe.We went for a couple of walks to explore - not alone, my friend and I - and saw nothing that made us uneasy. However, I can see that people who aren't accustomed to inner-city life might have felt uneasy.
There were people changing in the halls also because the dressing rooms were packed and dark. I'm sure the LOC did what they could, but they can't make a space larger and better suited for what we needed. I'ts great the west coast folks did not have to go far, and I'd be happy to go to another nats out there, just at a better suited facility.And those of us who were visiting from the UK and Australia were overwhelmed by the luxury! Given what we were used to..... (our twin-pad arenas at Sheffield and Nottingham hadn't been built then, nor did we have any prospect of our own Adult Championships any time soon. Thank goodness that changed!).

[daisies]

Colonial for Easterns and All Year for Coasts are the unofficial.
I can confirm that All Year is definitely hosting PCAS next year, in Culver City, CA.

Re: 1998 AN in Oakland ... sorry, Thin-Ice, but I didn't find Flo's comments harsh either. I have no doubt that St. Moritz ISC did the best they could, but unfortunately it didn't translate well, at least from this competitor's standpoint. :(

[WhisperSung]

Hmm. Anyone know where Midwesterns will be next year? Assuming I manage to pass my Novice Moves and Free, I might consider trying out Championship Masters next year (then again, maybe not. . .I'm slightly intimidated by it!). Still curious where it'll be held, though.

[Novice Spirals]

Yes, I'm sure St. Moritz did their best, but Oakland was a horrible venue. Outside the rink, there was a very dicey and scary environment and the locker rooms were dark and packed. The bus schedule was horrible and it had a lot of traffic issues and practice ice issues. I'll never go back there, EVER!
Ann Arbor was nice and Lake Placid was great. Marlboro was good, too. I am eager to hear feedback from Dallas. Good Luck , everyone!

[Thin-Ice]

Perhaps I'm overly-sensitive because I know how hard our club worked to do what could be done... and I've never heard anyone say ANYTHING nice about 1998 AN.

I don't disagree Oakland was not the best venue for AN.. but this topic comes up from time-to-time. Those who were there know it was not ideal. But that was EIGHT years ago.

Perhaps damning with faint praise I DID hear "well at least we never have to go THERE again".

And Lake Placid is a VERY tough act to follow.

I'd be very happy to have some other West Coast/Rocky Mountain club host AN. And if our club does NOT host AN, then I don't have to volunteer and skate and try to keep working (what a silly idea all of that is!!!). I like AWAY competitions MUCH better, so I can just skate and hang out with all my friends.

No hard feelings intended.. none taken. Perhaps I should just gloss over any comments about that AN. I didn't even skate well that year. Better luck to everyone this year in Texas!

[manleywoman]

Thin Ice: i actually had a great time in Oakland, as it was my first ANs. I was overwhelmed that there were so many adults who competed (my rink there were only two of us at the time) and I had friends to visit in San Fran, which f course made the whole trip fun. I did not use the practice ice, so I had no problems with the buses by default! So don't feel too badly. I had a good time regardless!

At the time I thought Oakland was a cool competition, since I'd never been to another ANS for comparison, and I'm fairly low-maintenance. But in retrospect and after hearing from others, I will agree it wasn't the best venue due to lack of space. I really am a beleiver that the practice rink should be VERY close by for convenience, because we adults do a lot of running around in order to compete in our own events and watch others. I thought KC, as well as they ran it and as nice as the competition rink was, the practice ice was way too far away.

[CanAmSk8ter]

When you say your "official practice ice is at 8:45am" on Tuesday, do you mean your official warmup? The 20-minute one? If so, that's very odd. There shouldn't be any official warmups until Wednesday. You're sure that Tuesday one isn't a regular, 30-minute practice? I am perplexed by your dilemma!

My e-mail listed both the one 30-minute practice I paid for and the one 20-minute warmup for my event.

No, I found my warm-up on the regular schedule, Wednesday morning at 7 something. The email I got referred to tuesday AM as "official practice". I filled out all those forms so long ago, all I remember is paying for two blocks of ice time, I can't remember what they were. I thought one was official practice, one was unofficial practice, and warm-up was included, but I could have that wrong. I'll be arriving early enough on Tuesday to figure things out and hopefully get in the unofficial practice I think I paid for Tuesday afternoon or Tuesday evening. I just wish some of this stuff about practice ice had been spelled out more clearly in the application.

[flo]

Thin, you're right. Itwas early in the AN process and we all learned from it. The LOC did put a great deal of effort into it, and Lake Placid is always a hard act to follow.

[Stormy]

I wish I knew my practice ice time as well. I know I put my e-mail address on everything. If Tuesday AM is official practice for Silver I ladies, I am also in trouble, I am not getting in until noontime or so. I'm not sure if I should contact the LOC now or wait till I get there. I just want to make sure I get some practice ice time.

Still, I am SO SO SO excited for this...just being in warm weather for a couple days is going to be awesome. :D

[daisies]

No, I found my warm-up on the regular schedule, Wednesday morning at 7 something. The email I got referred to tuesday AM as "official practice".
On my e-mail, the 30-minute, Tuesday practice that I paid for is also referred to as "official practice," so it sounds like it's all OK.

[Thin-Ice]

Thin Ice: i actually had a great time in Oakland, as it was my first ANs. (snip) So don't feel too badly. I had a good time regardless!


Thanks Manleywoman.. that DOES make me feel better.

[Thin-Ice]

Thin, you're right. Itwas early in the AN process and we all learned from it. The LOC did put a great deal of effort into it, and Lake Placid is always a hard act to follow.

And thank you too, Flo! By the way, I LOVED watching you skate pairs in Texas this year! My first AN in Lake Placid, you were in my Interp group (you remember, when the Bronze skaters competed in the same qualifying round as the Gold & Masters skaters?).. and I was so impressed by your grace. I've managed to see you skate at least one event every year since... you just keep getting better and better.

[flo]

Wow, thanks:oops: I do remember - it was quite a task to skate with the masters when we were bronze!! I remember that there were so many of us that they only took 4 for the final round. What was your program that year?
Congrats on your skate!