US Adult Nationals Schedule is ... down?! [Archive]

mdvask8r

03-12-2006, 04:38 AM

It's back up again, but I don't see any changes.
No changes yet, but they have posted the following notice:

PLEASE NOTE: The LOC is aware that the tentative schedule posted differs significantly from the tentative schedule in the announcement. We apologize for any inconvenience. The schedule is made at the sole discretion of the Chief Referee. The schedule below is posted for the purpose of skaters being able to make their travel arrangements. We have been told that this is not the final schedule and that some of the times and rinks are subject to change due to conflicts noted with this schedule. It is anticipated that the final schedule will be available next week and will be posted upon receipt.

So hopefully everyone with a real conflict has contacted the referee by now so that he can make adjustments where possible.
Can't wait to see everyone there!

MusicSkateFan

03-12-2006, 12:14 PM

Still no good for me.....Enjoy everyone.....I am making plans to go to Vegas during my vacation later in April.......Time to move on....work on an axel and Silver moves......

I May put in for time off next year to do 2007 ISU adult international but at this point the bad taste that has been left with me for US Adult Nationals does not bode well for me doing 2007 in Chicago!

BTW

I just finished CRC competition where I skated up to silver for the first time. I was 5th out of 5 but received the following ordinals:

5 2 1 5 5

Debbie S

03-12-2006, 05:19 PM

I just finished CRC competition where I skated up to silver for the first time. I was 5th out of 5 but received the following ordinals:

5 2 1 5 5Congrats, MSF!! Wow, a 1st place ordinal when "skating up" for the first time. Did you decide to go and defend your title, NoVa?

(Are you guys doing May Day?)

lovepairs

03-12-2006, 05:45 PM

It's so bad...do they really expect working adults to make flight reservations one week before the competition. Hello, it is tremendously expensive to make last minute flights--never mind nerve wracking.

I think I see the problem: if you look at the schedule, there is a big hole in the second rink on Thursday night--competition ends at around 6:00pmish. So, I'm wondering was everything pushed up, and competitors now getting screwed big time, because the rink promised the ice to some hockey game, public session, or a kids party!???__))$%^&(*&&@#$%^&#$%&

I mean, is this our event, or not? Okay, here's some brilliant planning: the Gold Pairs Competition is exactly opposite the Bronze Pairs Competition on Wed. night. The Master Pairs is right before both of these when the Bronze and Gold Pairs are in the lock rooms getting ready for their competition. So, among the pairs no one can see each other skate!!! Okay, so we can all watch the Silver Pairs on Thurs. and the Silver pairs can watch all of us on Wed. Okay, the Silver Pairs Won!

You know, it's not like they have to reinvent the wheel each time they have to schedule this event. It's always held on the same days and there are templates for scheduling from the last ten ANs. I would really just like to know what happened here that will leave several competitors out big bucks, and very disgruntled about attending future Adult Nationals.

manleywoman

03-12-2006, 06:10 PM

Guys . . . Please address your concerns to the USFS. It is indeed the Chief Referee and not the Dallas LOC who is making the schedule. It's always been this way. So let the Powers That Be and the Adult Skating Committee know how upset you all are.

We just had a meeting today in organizing for Chicago ANs, and discussed the Dallas scheduling problem. But while we can do our best to avoid it (and you know we will!) it is up to the Referee to make the schedule.

My guess is that part of the problem with Dallas too was the timing: Dallas Nationals is much earlier this year then it has been by about 2 weeks, and therefore closer to Sectionals than normal. All the Sectionals events couldn't be much earlier due to getting officials free from "real" Nationals and the Olys. And the schedule couldn't be done until Sectionals were over (though I'm not exactly sure why, since we know how many people will be in the Champ Events). So getting the schedule straightened out is that much tougher this year.

Not making excuses, just trying to find an explanation.

Terri C

03-12-2006, 06:51 PM

Guys . . . Please address your concerns to the USFS. It is indeed the Chief Referee and not the Dallas LOC who is making the schedule. It's always been this way. So let the Powers That Be and the Adult Skating Committee know how upset you all are.

My guess is that part of the problem with Dallas too was the timing: Dallas Nationals is much earlier this year then it has been by about 2 weeks, and therefore closer to Sectionals than normal. All the Sectionals events couldn't be much earlier due to getting officials free from "real" Nationals and the Olys. And the schedule couldn't be done until Sectionals were over (though I'm not exactly sure why, since we know how many people will be in the Champ Events). So getting the schedule straightened out is that much tougher this year.

Not making excuses, just trying to find an explanation.

The only thing I could come up with is this: there are not enough skaters to fill the ice times alloted for AN and the LOC/ USFS are trying to conserve on the budget by filling the empty weekday ice with events that were tentatively scheduled on the weekend. After all, weekday ice is cheaper than weekend prime time ice.
As for Sectionals and the wait, aren't there 12 skaters in the Championship events.

lovepairs

03-12-2006, 08:27 PM

I sent a long letter about it to Antonio Conte, head chair of the Adult Committee of the USFSA. He said that the USFSA was in disagrement about what had happened, but ultimately it was up to the head referree to make the correction, or change. Antonio assured me that they would see what they could do. The Adult Committe is a VERY stong advocate of adult skaters, so I do believe that they tried--which is why I think the scheduled was pulled for a day, or so, off the skating club's website.

I guess my question is really: what happened? The previous poster mentioned a budgeting concern on the part of the LOC of the Dallas FSC. This is my guess, too, that they are trying to fill the ice up and make $$$, or not loose money at the very least, but please not off the back of hard-working adults who have trained the entire year to participate in AN. I have a very hard time with the fact that people will be scratching and loosing airfare, because the rink (or club) doesn't want to loose money. If it's not this, then what is it? Again, you really can't ask adults to make flight and hotel arrangements at the most just two weeks before a major national event.

jazzpants

03-12-2006, 09:20 PM

My guess is that part of the problem with Dallas too was the timing: Dallas Nationals is much earlier this year then it has been by about 2 weeks, and therefore closer to Sectionals than normal. All the Sectionals events couldn't be much earlier due to getting officials free from "real" Nationals and the Olys. And the schedule couldn't be done until Sectionals were over (though I'm not exactly sure why, since we know how many people will be in the Champ Events). So getting the schedule straightened out is that much tougher this year. Re: the timing of Nationals... what was the original reason for having AN in early April as opposed to mid-April. I would THINK that it would make life a lot simpler and it would give competitors more time to plan for their trip.

As for the scheduling for Open vs. Championship events, to me, that argument doesn't hold. They have previous schedules from the last AN and they can certainly use those old schedules as templates for this AN. The other thing is that there's an assumption that there will be 12 competitors at the qualifying events no matter what. Who those 12 are is a mystery 'til after Sectionals is done, yes, but I would think that it's fair to make a guess that there will be at least 12 people at the qualifying events. (It's the OPEN events where the numbers are variable...and as you see, those numbers have dropped significantly!!!)

I'll add in my nickel on this one - I think that the reason why the numbers have dropped are two reasons: 1) economics! I think that we're still trying to recover from the bad economic years (and IMHO, we're not recovered yet!) and 2) the adult moves requirement! There aren't as many skaters moving up from Pre-Bronze to Bronze b/d they're too busy trying to pass Bronze Moves to test up to Bronze, so you'll get less Bronze level skaters. Same with Bronze skaters moving up to Silver.

Now, for the record, for those who think I'm anti-moves... I have NOTHING against moves! I actually ENJOY working on moves. I feel now thru working on Bronze moves that I feel more confident on the ice and I'm actually "with peace" with my skating now!!! (Never mind that I can actually skate w/o screwing up my lower back...) :P Given that... frankly, if there were no adult moves requirements, I'd probably would be at AN either last year or this year. Hell, given how crappy my basics are (and therefore my Bronze moves...) and the moves requirements, I'm not sure I'll qualify for AN anytime soon. :frus: (And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who's going thru this too.) ;)

Until then, I'll hold on to my "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" membership card... :frus:

LoopLoop

03-13-2006, 07:34 AM

Here's a question: is it a new chief referee this year? If so, he might not understand some of the problems that rescheduling events would cause for people. If his experience is more with standard-track nationals, he'd be used to a schedule which begins with the lower-level events and moves up to the higher ones through the week, and might have tried to work that way with this schedule (which would account for moving the bronze men to Wednesday and the silver men to Thursday).

(OK, I'll take off my benefit-of-the-doubt hat now.)

Terri C

03-13-2006, 08:18 AM

I'll add in my nickel on this one - I think that the reason why the numbers have dropped are two reasons: 1) economics! I think that we're still trying to recover from the bad economic years (and IMHO, we're not recovered yet!) and 2) the adult moves requirement! There aren't as many skaters moving up from Pre-Bronze to Bronze b/d they're too busy trying to pass Bronze Moves to test up to Bronze, so you'll get less Bronze level skaters. Same with Bronze skaters moving up to Silver.

Now, for the record, for those who think I'm anti-moves... I have NOTHING against moves! I actually ENJOY working on moves. I feel now thru working on Bronze moves that I feel more confident on the ice and I'm actually "with peace" with my skating now!!! (Never mind that I can actually skate w/o screwing up my lower back...) :P Given that... frankly, if there were no adult moves requirements, I'd probably would be at AN either last year or this year. Hell, given how crappy my basics are (and therefore my Bronze moves...) and the moves requirements, I'm not sure I'll qualify for AN anytime soon. :frus: (And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who's going thru this too.) ;)

Until then, I'll hold on to my "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" membership card... :frus:

Add me to the Pre Bronze for Life membership plan!

dcden

03-13-2006, 10:25 AM

Congrats, MSF!! Wow, a 1st place ordinal when "skating up" for the first time. Did you decide to go and defend your title, NoVa?

(Are you guys doing May Day?)

Just wanted to give a public shout out to MSF and Nova to congratulate them on their performances at CRC this weekend. I didn't see either one actually as I was in "focus mode" for my own event. MSF has been training very well for the past few months so I was not surprised to have seen him throw the ordinals in a jumble. Nova also has looked relaxed during run throughs on Tuesday mornings when we have our lessons, so I was not worried about him doing well.

As Marty Romanik pointed out: "There were more [Bronze & Silver] men than women this time around... you don't see that too often."

mdvask8r I LURVE your music & costume! Sorry I didn't get to see you skate but thanks for saying hi during your 6 minute warmup!

And to Debbie S, yes, Nova defended his title from last year!

Debbie S

03-13-2006, 11:11 AM

Thanks for the CRC news, dcden (hey, how did you skate?)! Congrats to everyone! (I didn't know Marty was competing)

Add me to the Pre Bronze for Life membership plan!LOL! Yep, I feel like I'm in that right now! :lol: Is it normal to be visualizing yourself doing Bronze moves (correctly) here at work, driving to and from work, and at home doing random stuff? Perhaps I have developed some kind of Bronze Moves Overload Syndrome? :?? :giveup:

NoVa Sk8r

03-13-2006, 11:29 AM

Just wanted to give a public shout out to MSF and Nova to congratulate them on their performances at CRC this weekend. I didn't see either one actually as I was in "focus mode" for my own event. MSF has been training very well for the past few months so I was not surprised to have seen him throw the ordinals in a jumble. Nova also has looked relaxed during run throughs on Tuesday mornings when we have our lessons, so I was not worried about him doing well.And congrats to dcden for winning the gold event! Our coach can now charge more since she just produced 2 champs! :)

jazzpants

03-13-2006, 11:35 AM

And congrats to dcden for winning the gold event! Our coach can now charge more since she just produced 2 champs! :)LOL!!! I joked to my skating friends that, in a way, I'm glad I didn't won the Pre-Bronze FS title at Sectionals b/c my coach would have raise his rates right then and there. His Champ Adult Gold Men guy didn't win the title either, so for now, we're all safe!!! :lol: :twisted:

Congrats to MSF for throwing the ordinals off and NoVa and dcden for winning their respective events.

jazzpants

03-13-2006, 11:42 AM

Thanks for the CRC news, dcden (hey, how did you skate?)! Congrats to everyone! (I didn't know Marty was competing)

LOL! Yep, I feel like I'm in that right now! :lol: Is it normal to be visualizing yourself doing Bronze moves (correctly) here at work, driving to and from work, and at home doing random stuff? Perhaps I have developed some kind of Bronze Moves Overload Syndrome? :?? :giveup:LOL!!! It's called visualization!!! Common symptom of AOSS. :lol:

Terri C

03-13-2006, 11:46 AM

And to Debbie S, yes, Nova defended his title from last year!

Way to go NoVa! Too bad I couldn't be there to see it, but as of last week, I'm working on a new program, so I can Paint It Black at May Day open!

LoopLoop

03-13-2006, 11:53 AM

I'm working on a new program, so I can Paint It Black at May Day open!
I'll be at May Day too, with a Scottish Fantasy debut. Big change of musical style for me...

coskater64

03-13-2006, 01:20 PM

Just my 2 cents, but for years a lot of us **(okay I** wanted to skate on Saturday) gold ladies wanted to skate on Saturday, to have all the Champ events on Saturday. I think the LOC tried to accomodate that wish, at least that what it looks like...I mean those are the skaters who qualified through sectionals and through the qualifying rounds that you see on Saturday. Lots of times you wouldn't get to see the gold ladies because we always skated on Thursday/Wednesday night and a lot of people would arrive until that day, so they'd miss us. It seems they were just trying to put all those Champ events and bigger groups on the last day. These are skaters who qualified and not to demean the non qualifying levels or those who didn't make it through sectionals but--- we all eventually have our moment in the sun. Shouldn't we let it shine brightly?

Admittedly, a little notice about putting all those champ events on one day would have been helpful and could have helped those skaters prepare better...but it looks like it was an experiment. I like to watch the open gold ladies 2 & 3 to see what's coming up the pipe, I can't because it's opposite my event, maybe I'll buy the tape of the group and the group above.

Well, just my thoughts...;)

jazzpants

03-13-2006, 05:15 PM

Okay, Maggie Harding asked everyone to spread the word... so...
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: AN 06 bad schedule changing to good
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:41:28 -0500
From: mountainside <APDougherty@compuserve.com>

ALL:
Spread the word. Your screams and frustrations have been heard.
The schedule is going to back to something that more accurately reflects
the tentative schedule in the announcement. It's supposed to be posted by tomorrow night. Ignore what is there right now.

Now, I realize this is double frustration for those who already switched
their flights and reservations ---sorry, sorry, sorry-- but in an effort to make
the most people happy and to have the most logically run event, this is what has been done. And it is a an equal nightmare for the Dallas folks trying to put together practice ice. (Please don't yell at anyone on the LOC -- they had nothing to do withthis. )

Obviously we are going to need everyone's patience when we get to Dallas. Let's all hang together on this. You have my word that nothing like this will happen in 2007!!

Ann Dougherty
current NVC, Adult Competitions

MSF: Don't get mad! Go to VEGAS... and enjoy!!! :twisted:

MusicSkateFan

03-13-2006, 06:11 PM

8O HANG ON FOLKS! I JUST RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM THE USFSA VICE-CHAIR OF ADULT COMPETITION.......

THEY WILL POST A NEW SCHEDULE BY TUESDAY NIGHT

THE NEW SCHEDULE WILL BE WHAT WAS PRINTED IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT!

(OR VERY CLOSE TO THAT)

THIS WENT VERY HIGH INTO THE USFSA AND THEY KNOW THIS MAY CAUSE SOME MORE PROBLEMS BUT THIS WAS THE DECISION. I WAS GIVEN PERMISSION TO POST THIS INFORMATION BY THE VICE CHAIR.

IN GENERAl: DON'T BLAME USFSA OR THE LOC OR EVEN DALLAS FSC.....THIS MESS BELONGS TO ONE INDIVIDUAL.

SPREAD THE WORD

I MAY BE THERE AFTER ALL.....VEGAS MAY HAVE TO WAIT!

InsideAxel

03-13-2006, 06:23 PM

IN GENERAl: DON'T BLAME USFSA OR THE LOC OR EVEN DALLAS FSC.....THIS MESS BELONGS TO ONE INDIVIDUAL.

Well who is it? I've made all the reservation/flight changes I'm going to.

Kelton

techskater

03-13-2006, 06:38 PM

The Chief Referee.

I just received this from Maggie Harding:

Hey Everyone,

Here's some important and time sensitive information about the schedule at Adult Nationals! Spread the word!

Maggie

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: AN 06 bad schedule changing to good
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:41:28 -0500
From: mountainside <APDougherty@compuserve.com>

ALL:
Spread the word. Your screams and frustrations have been heard.

The schedule is going to back to something that more accurately reflects
the
tentative schedule in the announcement.

It's supposed to be posted by tomorrow night. Ignore what is there right
now.

Now, I realize this is double frustration for those who already switched
their
flights and reservations ---sorry, sorry, sorry-- but in an effort to make
the most people happy and
to have the most logically run event, this is what has been done.

And it is a an equal nightmare for the Dallas folks trying to put together
practice ice.
(Please don't yell at anyone on the LOC -- they had nothing to do with
this. )

Obviously we are going to need everyone's patience when we get to Dallas.
Let's all hang together on this. You have my word that nothing like this
will
happen in 2007!!

Ann Dougherty
current NVC, Adult Competitions

flo

03-13-2006, 07:28 PM

Auugggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!
Don't change the gold pairs!!!!!! AGAIN!!!!!!

daisies

03-13-2006, 07:51 PM

I know this caused a lot of stress among the skaters, but I have to hand it to the LOC or whomever was responsible for changing the schedule back for doing it in such a timely manner.

It sucks that some of you already made airline changes, etc., but I am wondering if you checked with the referee or the LOC before you did that. I'd be mad if they told me they couldn't make changes to the schedule and I rearranged my plans around that, only to find they would, in fact, make changes. But if not, I guess we all learned today -- for next time -- that if there's a major discrepancy we should hold off before doing anything drastic!

Not to sound preachy or anything..... ;)

NoVa Sk8r

03-13-2006, 08:26 PM

Here's to procrastinating with respect to reservations!

(And we missed you at the sendoff tonight, MSF!)

flo

03-13-2006, 08:56 PM

Yes, I did call, and had been told that the pairs were moved to Wednesday from Thursday.

dcden

03-13-2006, 09:01 PM

Well I think this snafu is unprecedented in AN, at least as far as I've been attending (2000). So I can understand why people would have changed plans once they heard of the original switch in schedule. As stressful as it is to change flight plans three weeks before AN, it's better than having to change them one week before.

That said, I'm hoping the schedule does get changed back to something closer to the original schedule listed in the announcement. While I wasn't affected too much either way, I really feel for others who had their AN status thrown into bedlam over the schedule change.

Also, I do agree that it would make sense to have the Championship events all be on the final day of the competition. But if the referee wanted to go this route, that should have been a decision made in August or September, not in March. Otherwise, the "tried and true" schedule used for many years should have been adhered to.

But whatever, let's see what happens tomorrow and hope things work out.

climbsk8

03-13-2006, 09:27 PM

So let me get this straight .... they're changing the schedule BACK?!?!?!?!

Oh brother. I switched flights as soon as the last schedule came out AND committed to working on Saturday so I won't lose even more money. My dance partner isn't sure what to do yet.

This really, really sucks. And I don't even know what the schedule is yet. I didn't go through six dance tests in two months just so I could eventually miss the event.

How could something this awful happen? ANs have always been well-run ... it's not like we're reinventing the wheel here.

MusicSkateFan

03-14-2006, 06:59 AM

As I posted.....This falls on one person....(Chief Ref) we need to be very clear on who we focus our displeasure with! Letters....emails.....(get the torches and pitchforks for this one!)

Yes, I am sorry NoVA....I had an audition for my summer Orchestra Festival last night.... Woo Hooo Here's to 6 weeks in Austria this summer and not in the Hell-Like heat of DC!!!!!!

We shall see what tonight unveils for schedule!

Mel On Ice

03-14-2006, 08:58 AM

I've been patient, but I'm now at my wit's end. I am a part-time freelance writer/photographer and made an appointment for an interview on Thursday to help play the bills. NOW they're going to change things back!? Motherscratcher... :frus: :x :giveup:

climbsk8

03-14-2006, 11:00 AM

I'm with you Mel!!!! I'm a freelance TV producer, with the same work and travel issues as yours, now I'm just dying to find out what the new schedule will be.

If anybody sees it, PLEASE post the link here! I'm guessing that no matter what, a large number of people are going to be screwed, because people have made travel plans now by two different schedules. I just want this drama to be over with!!!

Isk8NYC

03-14-2006, 11:20 AM

I hope this all works out well in the end. Good luck, skatingforums Nationals competitors!

I read in another forum that the new schedule's supposed to be posted tonight (3/14/2006).

jazzpants

03-14-2006, 11:46 AM

Yup! My coach and his one skater (a Champ. Adult Gold Men competitor) is now sitting by waiting for the schedule and making plans according to that. The problem with that is... the day that the Champ. Adult Gold Men event happens determines my primary coach's coaching schedule... including MY lesson!!! :twisted: (He's now talking about switching me to Monday nights!!! Bronze Moves practice on a crowded Monday night public session? EEEEK!!!! 8O )

mikawendy

03-14-2006, 06:58 PM

Jazzpants, I feel your pain! I hate doing Bronze Moves in lesson when it's crowded, especially the alternating back crossovers to BO edge. There's inevitably a little kid standing directly in my path, and so I slow waaaay down and get all scratchy....

Best of luck to all the AN competitors, and I hope that you all have great skates and a great time in spite of the horrid scheduling snafu.

lovepairs

03-14-2006, 07:00 PM

I'm soooo depressed...where's this schedule??? They said Tuesday night--was that eastern, central, or pacific time??? I'm so depressed, and this was suppossed to be the happy time of year for me. I wait all year for adult nationals, because i don't have a life...:cry:

WELL, GET A LIFE, LOVEPAIRS!!!::P

SURRENDER DOROTHY :giveup: !

OH, BROTHER WILL SOMEONE JUST POST THIS SCHEDULE, ALREADY...I DON'T EVEN CARE WHAT IT IS ANYMORE...:bow:

:idea: Hey, guys, let's start our own USFSA! But we can call it something else...any ideas ;)

Hey, if we start our own USFSA, we can just hit the delete button on Moves in the Field!!!:D

skaternum

03-14-2006, 07:41 PM

Terri C

03-14-2006, 07:53 PM

This is absolutely assinine. I cannot believe that the Chief Ref fu**ed up the schedule by deviating so dramatically from the posted tentative schedule, thereby screwing over people who'd already scheduled time off from work and flights. And I REALLY cannot believe that they're actually making it worse by changing the schedule again, thereby doubly screwing over some of those people who'd changed their plans. I'm not going this year, but I'm just appalled at this situation. I know they're trying to make things better by changing the schedule again, but come on! This is the worst scheduling nonsense I've seen at AN in the 8 years I've been competing as an adult. I KNOW that the Chief Ref is a volunteer, but JEEZ!! I'd be so pi**ed off if I was competing this year. :x

Skaternum,you've said it all. While I'm not eligible to compete at AN yet, (someday in this lifetime) I feel for everyone who has trained their asses off for this once a year shindig, only to have a schedule screw up by a Chief Referee who has IMHO demonstrated ignorance as to competitors' travel plans, etc!
The best thing from it is that there are a good group of folks in Chicago that sound like they are going to make it a priority to avoid the mess of this year in 2007!

jazzpants

03-14-2006, 07:57 PM

Schedule is UP!!! :D

http://www.dallasfsc.org/2006AdultNationals/2006%20US%20Adult%20Figure%20Skating%20Championshi ps%20Schedule.pdf

(You can stop being depressed now, lovepairs!!! :lol: And I'll help you on that "Delete MITF" button... :twisted: )

flo

03-14-2006, 09:20 PM

Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

Mel On Ice

03-14-2006, 10:01 PM

good news is I can still go to work on Thursday. Bad news is if I make final round (insert snorts of disbelief here) in Bronze III, I will be on the ice in various stages of dress from 10am to 3pm for freestyle and interp on Fri.

Debbie S

03-14-2006, 10:18 PM

So MSF, is it Dallas or Vegas? ;)

I sure hope that USFSA person who wrote that e-mail to Maggie Harding follows through on her word that this mess will not happen next year. Looking at the new (final?) schedule, I'm almost glad I'm not going - I'd be competing at 8:40 a.m on Wed - that's earlier than NYI! I don't understand why they didn't put Bronze I and II on Friday, like they did with Bronze I (also no QR) last year. It makes sense to have all Bronze Ladies finals on the same day, whether there is a qual round or not.

NoVa Sk8r

03-14-2006, 10:35 PM

Looks like MSF's complaints were heard -- all the men's bronze events are on Saturday! (My event is still on Thursday, so I'm probably not going.)

TreSk8sAZ

03-15-2006, 12:39 AM

I don't understand why they didn't put Bronze I and II on Friday, like they did with Bronze I (also no QR) last year. It makes sense to have all Bronze Ladies finals on the same day, whether there is a qual round or not.

That's my confusion.... Wed was supposed to be for qual rounds. Doesn't it make sense that if there isn't a QR, just a final round, it would be put on the day of FRs? (meaning, Friday)? I don't mind skating early Wed (I'm bronze I) but skating with the other final rounds would have made more sense. At least to me. But I'm lucky, I didn't have to rearrange anything, so I'm not complaining!:giveup:

techskater

03-15-2006, 05:19 AM

All the Open Golds are now on WEDS and these are all FR too. Bronze 1 was always scheduled for Weds. Make up your mind, Mr. Referee. Also, there's a group with a w/u but is not competing on Friday (Masters Interp 2)

icecatepairs

03-15-2006, 07:20 AM

Speaking of masters interp 2 can someone tell me how i am supposed to skate 2 events at the same time....masters interp comedy 2 is also scheculed for thurrsday night ony minutes before i am to take the ice for championship ladies gold. i was thinking of turning in a blank cd, taking the ice for a minute . announcing to the audience that i am withdrawing from the event at adult nationals for the first time in 6 years and why, thanking the judges for their time , and stating that the person who organized this fiasco should hang their head in shame, and skting off while they are still wondering what happended to my music...do you thiunk i will get gurantee a last place finish in champ. ladies gokd for that?

dcden

03-15-2006, 07:30 AM

Speaking of masters interp 2 can someone tell me how i am supposed to skate 2 events at the same time....masters interp comedy 2 is also scheculed for thurrsday night ony minutes before i am to take the ice for championship ladies gold. i was thinking of turning in a blank cd, taking the ice for a minute . announcing to the audience that i am withdrawing from the event at adukt nationals fotr the first time in 6 years and why, thanking the judges for their time , and stating that the person who organized this fiasco should hang their head in shame, and skting off while they are still wondering what happended to my music...do you thiunk i will get gurantee a last place finish in champ. ladies gokd for that?

OMG... not that I want to aid and abet your plans, but... you could record yourself making such an announcement and burn that to the CD that you turn in before the event. It may not win you the event but you might get some originality points!

climbsk8

03-15-2006, 07:46 AM

Speaking of masters interp 2 can someone tell me how i am supposed to skate 2 events at the same time....masters interp comedy 2 is also scheculed for thurrsday night ony minutes before i am to take the ice for championship ladies gold. \

Hey girl, I have an idea ... I'll bring my video camera and we'll tape your interp program during your warmup. Then I'll play it back for them when they call your name.

I still can't figure out which Masters Interp I'm supposed to be in ... I think they stuck me in comedy but I need to be in dramatic.

I'll just go ahead and say it ....

I HATE DALLAS!!!!!!!!!!! I REALLY REALLY HATE IT.

Now that they've changed EVERYTHING again, I have to change my flights ... AGAIN. And I have to bail out on more work, and lose more money.

Part of me thinks that they need to get a new chief referee for the event. If I was him/her, I don't think I'd want to show my face in Dallas. On the other hand, I would like to meet the ref in person, because by then I'll have an exact tally of how much money I've wasted and lost just trying to get there.

climbsk8

03-15-2006, 08:11 AM

Oh great ... I can't change my flights without shelling out $800. I have to go home on standby now. This SUCKS!!!

flo

03-15-2006, 08:22 AM

Anyone tried changing practice ice yet? I am not paying for ice I can not use because of their errors.

Mel On Ice

03-15-2006, 08:54 AM

flo, that's one of the reasons why I didn't contract for practice ice. A risk, I know, but I'd rather walk on than deal with this logistics nightmare.

flying~camel

03-15-2006, 09:06 AM

dcden

03-15-2006, 09:09 AM

Yeah, I don't feel comfortable paying for practice ice in advance when 1) I don't know what times they'll give me and 2) I don't know when I'm competing yet.

I'm also not going to do my official warm-up. Since I'm competing at 8:00 AM, I don't really want to skip the extra sleep to pay $7.50 for a 20 min crowded session.

I think the 20 minute official warm-up is part of what you've already paid for for your event, i.e. free. (With the way things are going this year, don't quote me on that, but that's what's been done in the past).

flying~camel

03-15-2006, 09:27 AM

I think the 20 minute official warm-up is part of what you've already paid for for your event, i.e. free. (With the way things are going this year, don't quote me on that, but that's what's been done in the past).

In the announcement it said:

Official Warm-up Ice: This is the 20-minute, no-music, practice ice limited to the competitors in each event, held shortly before the time of the event. Your spot is guaranteed, if you choose to use it, but you must pay for the use of ice.

Fee $7.50/Official Warm-up

Skittl1321

03-15-2006, 09:30 AM

Is there any sort of prize for adult nationals? Or just the title? I don't compete yet (I barely skate)- but it's one of my goals. Seeing all that you are having to go through is making me wonder if it's "worth it"

and 20 minutes of crowded practice ice for $7.50- eek!

dcden

03-15-2006, 09:45 AM

In the announcement it said:

Official Warm-up Ice: This is the 20-minute, no-music, practice ice limited to the competitors in each event, held shortly before the time of the event. Your spot is guaranteed, if you choose to use it, but you must pay for the use of ice.

Fee $7.50/Official Warm-up

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Trust me, this was free in the past!!

Thanks flying~camel for the heads up. I'll make sure to hit the ATM before my event.

Skittl1321 - There is no prize money. You get a medal if you finish in the top 4, and if you win you usually get a plate or plaque on top of your gold medal. No word yet as to whether or not you have to pay for the medals this year. (kidding... I hope.)

rlichtefeld

03-15-2006, 10:07 AM

Thanks flying~camel for the heads up. I'll make sure to hit the ATM before my event.

I think you had to send in the money for the official W/U with the application. I don't think/know if they will let you add to the official W/U at this point.

At least I'm hoping that is what is going on with the W/U for Gold Pairs. When flo called them, they said there were 9 teams. And, now in the schedule they only have one W/U. I hope they aren't planning on putting all 18 of us on the W/U!!! I'm guessing some of the teams aren't skating the W/U.

Because of the scheduling snafus, I'm wondering how many flights they will have in the actual event. I'm hoping 3 groups of 3, but my guess will be two. Nothing like a 6 minute warmup with 5 teams on the ice all trying lifts and death spirals!

Rob

dcden

03-15-2006, 10:16 AM

I think you had to send in the money for the official W/U with the application. I don't think/know if they will let you add to the official W/U at this point.

I registered online, and I don't remember any mention of an extra fee for the official warmup. Yet another logistical glitch????? Did anyone else encounter this???

Really, I'm trying to maintain a cheerful attitude about all of this, because unlike others I didn't have to change my flight plans, but it's hard. At this point I'm sure we'd all like to be focusing on our training rather than scrambling to finalize our arrangements.

Well I think next year as soon as they release the announcement, I'll hire a lawyer to go over it with me and work out the details in advance! ;)

Rob, good luck in that pair event... 9 pairs, that's an incredible turnout, I just hope they give you enough time to do your thing. The last time I saw you was at Roomer's in Lake Placid. That was a fun night... I hope we'll all be cheerful enough after this year's AN to party like that on Saturday night.

Mel On Ice

03-15-2006, 10:20 AM

official warm up was "free" last year in KC, or, paid in part by your entry fee. I don't know what it was in the past, but I gather that it was free then too.

This is slowly turning out to be a rather $ucky event. I really hope Chicago LOC is paying attention, or else entries will plummet.

lovepairs

03-15-2006, 10:21 AM

Oh, Rob, darling...my partner and I would be more than happy to deck you and your partner on the warm up! LOL!!! Can you imagine having one warm up for 9 pair teams! I hope this isn't the case, and I'm too exhausted at this point to inquire--ugh!

About the practice ice: it is my understanding that this 20 minute warm up is included in with the application fee--it's free. However, I did send a check for 3 days of practice ice, and, of course, its receipt was never confirmed. I emailed Ms. Newman to confirm, and I never received a response back--why am I not surprised???_)&@#$%^&*)(_)+))(*(%^&^%$$%#^$%^&*_)(+

Dear Skitt,

No prizes, but you just have the pleasure of being (fill in the blank) by the USFSA--indeed, this is quite the honor! :bow:

flo

03-15-2006, 10:27 AM

Grrrrrrrr.
Just spent another 100 to change reservations.
We did have to pay for the warm up ice.
I'm sending a bill to the USFSA. It will at least bring to their attention the expense this has caused.
The chief referee is
Morry Stillwell
morrys@aol.com

Terri C

03-15-2006, 10:29 AM

(My event is still on Thursday, so I'm probably not going.)

Drat, drat, drat!!! This sucks, NoVa! :cry:

dcden

03-15-2006, 10:32 AM

flo, lovepairs, Mel On Ice, Rob, MSF, Nova, climbsk8, & everyone else going through this hassle...

Gosh I think we will all need to gather together for a group hug once we get to Dallas. Really, it is devastating to hear all the troubles everyone is going through before they even hit the ice at AN. :cry: I don't know if I can be of any morale-boosting assistance at this point, other than to say: keep training hard, & don't let these circumstances take your moment away from you. You all have worked too hard this past year to not seize the moment on the ice.

lovepairs

03-15-2006, 11:04 AM

Yes, a big group hug is in order! I second that motion.

I'd be happy to organize the 20 minute Gold Pairs Warm Up, if indeed, they have all 9 pairs on this one session. I'm good at organizing things (I have a resume!) here's how we do it: first, we all line up and and do 3 or 4 rotations of lifts, like airplanes lined up on the runway. Then when that's done we divide the ice surface in half 5 teams on one side doing about 3 rotations of death spirals (same thing like planes lined up on the runway.) The other 1/2 of the ice teams are doing 3 or 4 rotations of throws in runway style. Then the last 5 or 10 minutes we just do side-by-side whatevers, whereever. But someone has to elect me president first! :D

We could really put on an awesome warm up show for those who are watching if this is the case (9 pair teams on the ice--oy vey!)

flo

03-15-2006, 11:10 AM

Thanks, but I think we need to let the pairs warm up as they wish. There are guidelines for warm ups and numbers of pairs on the ice, and they need to be followed. I called and mailed about this and will let you know when I hear back from anyone.

Mel On Ice

03-15-2006, 11:18 AM

rlichtefeld

03-15-2006, 11:28 AM

Oh, Rob, darling...my partner and I would be more than happy to deck you and your partner on the warm up! LOL!!! Can you imagine having one warm up for 9 pair teams! I hope this isn't the case, and I'm too exhausted at this point to inquire--ugh!

Ask NovaSk8r and LoopLoops how badly I did getting in everyones way at the Halloween Classic and there were only 3 teams on the ice for the warmup.

Rob

Mrs Redboots

03-15-2006, 12:57 PM

Skittl1321 - There is no prize money. You get a medal if you finish in the top 4, and if you win you usually get a plate or plaque on top of your gold medal. And you don't even have open marking, and the presentations are off-ice!

All the same, you seem to have more sheer fun than we do at ours, and my heart goes out to all of you who are being messed around like this. At least ours only lasts a weekend, they can't mess up too badly (well, you hope!).

flo

03-15-2006, 01:10 PM

Hi,
I've spoken with the LOC (very nice people) and here's the word on the gold pairs warm up:
There will be two warm ups, 4 pairs on one (10:30 - 10:50) and 5 on another 10:50-11:10. The ladies masters willl be 11:10 to 11:30. After this the next two will be combined and back on schedule.

LoopLoop

03-15-2006, 01:13 PM

Ask NovaSk8r and LoopLoops how badly I did getting in everyones way at the Halloween Classic and there were only 3 teams on the ice for the warmup.

Rob
We did seem to have a magnetic attraction that day, didn't we?

lovepairs

03-15-2006, 04:41 PM

Good news about the Gold Pairs warm up! Flo, haven't you figured it out, yet...there are no rules! If there were rules, then we all wouldn't be dealing with this mess, and the pair teams would have had practice ice at Lake Placid AN in 2004 (you must remember this, because we certainly do!)

Plus, Rob, I saw your warm up at the Halloween Classic, I was there!::P

Oh, also, my mistake...you do have to pay for that 20 minute warm up. I thought it was included, sorry...

daisies

03-15-2006, 04:52 PM

Speaking of masters interp 2 can someone tell me how i am supposed to skate 2 events at the same time....masters interp comedy 2 is also scheculed for thurrsday night ony minutes before i am to take the ice for championship ladies gold.

This is exactly why the schedule is tentative ... let them know of the conflict, and it will be changed.

I registered online, and I don't remember any mention of an extra fee for the official warmup. Yet another logistical glitch????? Did anyone else encounter this???
Not a glitch -- it was on the practice ice form in the competition announcement. (And you couldn't order practice ice online.)

Official warmup has been free in the past, but it has never been a requirement that it be free.

dcden

03-15-2006, 06:07 PM

Not a glitch -- it was on the practice ice form in the competition announcement. (And you couldn't order practice ice online.)

Official warmup has been free in the past, but it has never been a requirement that it be free.

Fair enough, but I'll bet most long time AN competitors didn't know that till now. I've been to 5 other AN's and never had to pay for the official 20 minute warmup. Not to say that it should always be that way, but you do get into a habit of thinking that things will be like years past -- men's bronze will be on Saturday, official warmups for an event will be ~2 hours before the event, practice ice is covered by your registration fee, etc.

Again, I've said this before, there's nothing wrong with the organizers wanting to change things for this year's AN, but at least give us fair warning. Yes, it was listed in the announcement that the 20-min WU was being charged, but this was in small print, and on page 22 of the announcement. Which you would never even get to if, like me, you're used to buying practice ice only after the official schedule is published a few weeks before AN, which, given the schedule situation now, is something that was wise to do anyway.

Granted, I can't deny the fact that the blurb is right there on p. 22, so I take some blame for not being attentive to this. But I think some common sense should apply here. If you're going to make a significant change like this, would it hurt to have this change more clearly stated? Say, in a section in the first few pages of the announcement stating what changes to expect from previous years' ANs? I know it's a moot point for this year, but I think for next year's announcement a "Changes from Last Year" section would be helpful to avoid this situation in the future, especially if we are also going to have all of the Championship events take place on Saturday in future ANs.

Well the situation is what it is, and I will have to deal with it regardless, I'm just thinking there were better ways to have organized all of this.

NoVa Sk8r

03-15-2006, 06:23 PM

If you're going to make a significant change like this, would it hurt to have this change more clearly stated? Say, in a section in the first few pages of the announcement stating what changes to expect from previous years' ANs? I know it's a moot point for this year, but I think for next year's announcement a "Changes from Last Year" section would be helpful to avoid this situation in the future, especially if we are also going to have all of the Championship events take place on Saturday in future ANs.I agree. Something in the line of some Income Tax booklets that list in the beginning "What's New" for this year. And likening the Dallas committees/panjandrum(s) to the IRS is perhaps not a bad comparison! :twisted: :P

daisies

03-15-2006, 06:23 PM

Point taken, dcden. No, it probably wouldn't have hurt to make it more visible, but I dunno ... I'm coming from a point of view in which I read everything cover to cover. Some people don't do that. I don't think it has anything to do with being "used" to anything -- as you know, I've been to every AN since the beginning, yet I still read it. But that's just me. I'm an anal Virgo, what can I say? ;)

flo

03-15-2006, 06:32 PM

Actually I've been to all nationals competing in pairs and fs and not had any major problems with any of the pairs practice . They have always been offered and available. There are rules and the LOC's do make a great effort to follow them. This year the scheduling has been a mess, no doubt about that,but then I don't know the whole story yet either!

NoVa Sk8r

03-15-2006, 06:33 PM

Most folks have seen the updated sked on the Dallas FSC website, but the one on USFS lists how many competitors are in each event:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/events/200506/usadultchamps/schedule.pdf

*4* silver I/II men. I know of 3 (me, Frank, and Jeremy--who were all there last year), but who is this interloper? :twisted: :P
Anyway, it's nice to know that this group has grown 33% in one year! 8-)

And whoa, 3 bronze, 7 silver, 9 gold, and 3 masters pairs teams?! 8O Excellent!

lovepairs

03-15-2006, 07:45 PM

Good point that someone made about not being able to sign up for practice ice on the website. I signed up for the event on the website, and then forgot about it for a while, then as we were getting closer I realized that we didn't sign up for practice ice. I looked on the website, again, but it wasn't there. Then I looked at the hard copy of the application, and guess what, I was past the deadline for practice ice. So, I tried contacting Colleen, but no response back, so I just thought I'd play it safe and I mailed in a check for 3 days of practice ice. Again, I tried to contact her to confirm, at the very least, that she received the practice ice application and my check, but, again, no response. So, the practice ice situation was like falling into a black hole from the getgo--still don't know if we have practice ice. Maybe in the future one should be able to register for all facets of the competition on the USFSA website--so, it's all in one place and no one will miss anything. Just a suggestion.

I skated today, and really tried to breath, but I was so wound up from all of this stuff. Okay, I'm going to say goodbye to everyone for now, sign off, get into "competition head" and practice. Love you all, and can't wait to see you all at AN. Even thought it was a very bad experience, in a way it brought us all closer together--don't you think?

daisies

03-15-2006, 08:23 PM

It would be really cool if we could sign up for practice ice online, but it probably wouldn't happen via the USFS site. While USFS handles the entries, the LOC is responsible for practice ice. So maybe future LOCs could set something up. As of now, though, even the kids who do Regionals have to send their practice ice requests separately, by mail, just like we do. :)

jp1andOnly

03-15-2006, 08:36 PM

I think its silly that you have to sign up for practice ice without knowing your schedule and then have to attempt to switch or not attend it if it conflicts with your event. There must be some other way of doing it.

techskater

03-15-2006, 08:59 PM

Some of us don't sign up for practice ice until we get there. Works better that way

flo

03-15-2006, 09:00 PM

The best run practice ice was in Lake Placid several years ago. We all paid for the desired number of slots in advance. When we arrived we snaked in and out of a large room with 6 to 8 people working behind a long table to take your specific requests. It was pretty fast and smooth.

Ice T

03-15-2006, 09:04 PM

FYI about official warm up. In the past, this was included with your entry fee. However, the new trend is that the local club hosting the event can now charge for it. My club hosted SE Regionals this year, and that is what we did. Apparently, another club last season at Regionals set the precedent, got away with it, and now everyone is doing it.

I paid for ONE official warm up time. However, there are two qualifiers in my division, which means that if I make final round, I will have to add into offical warm up for finals.

On official warm up, they typically throw all the skaters in your qualifier on the ice together, and yes, it is terrifying and unproductive. So that being the case, I would think that it should be no problem to add into the official warm up. However, no clarification was made in the annoucement about paying for a second warm up when you have to go through qualifying. So it's just one of those issues I will deal with if I make it thru to finals.

skatingatty

03-15-2006, 09:32 PM

Well thank god for this forum! I didn't know we had to pay for the official warm-up either. So now I know not to wake up at 6am Wed. for the warm-up. I'm better off sleeping in. With the new change in schedule, I could've left earlier and saved on 1-2 extra nights at the hotel. *sigh* Is anyone staying at the Sleep Inn in Irving Tues. night? That's where I'll be for that night. I hope there will be cabs around to take me to the rink the next morning. I found it on discounthotels.com . If it weren't for priceline.com, I prob. wouldn't be going b/c the flights on the other sites were over $500 round-trip.

icecatepairs

03-15-2006, 10:15 PM

sorry daisey, i let them know of the conflict and they don't care and won't change it:frus: ...i say we wear black arm bands if you have been screwed for money or forced to withdraw from an event!!!

Ice T

03-16-2006, 08:48 AM

iceskatepairs,

SURELY they are going to refund you the money for the second event that you can't skate because of THEIR scheduling conflict, right?????

Wow!!

daisies

03-16-2006, 01:04 PM

sorry daisey, i let them know of the conflict and they don't care and won't change it:frus: ...i say we wear black arm bands if you have been screwed for money or forced to withdraw from an event!!!
I replied to you in the other thread, but I will say it here too: THIS IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE! You have paid to be in the event, and, more important, you have TRAINED to be in the event. That is money wasted, and I would scream my lungs out about that fact. Do not take no for an answer. Call/e-mail everyone you can. I will even e-mail Tony Conte for you.

lutztoeloop

03-16-2006, 01:34 PM

Out of curiosity, how is the Chief Referee for a National Championship selected? Is there some committee of US Figure Skating who makes this decision, and do they monitor the decisions of the individual to make sure that major problems don't arise, or that major deviations from established guidelines are not breached? Who has the ultimate responsibility for ensuring that a National Championship is handled correctly?

daisies

03-16-2006, 03:40 PM

icecatepairs, I responded in the other thread, so sorry for the duplication, but after reading of your plight I went to look at the schedule to see your conflict .... and I don't see it.

You're in Masters Interp 2 Comedy, right? And Ch. Gold Ladies? The Interp ends at 7:10, and the FS starts 30 mins. after that. When you said they conflicted, I thought you meant they overlapped. Am I looking at the wrong thing?

It is a close call, but not so much that it's not do-able. Sorry. :(

I hope it all works out for you, whatever happens!