A couple of questions from a.. new skater

[xofivebyfive]

I'm relatively new to the figure skating aspect of skating. I've been skating like, around in circles in rinks for a few years so I'm very comfortable with my basic skating skills. I recently skarted a Learn to Skate program and had to enter the Pre Alpha New Adult level since I'm fifteen. I'm obviously more advanced than the other skaters since they try to walk on the ice instead of glide like you're supposed to. I just had a couple of questions for some of the more.. knowledgeable people on here.

I'm totally upset that I didn't realize how much I loved skating until this late in the game, because by now, girls my age are at junior or senior level. I don't expect to get very far up in the ranks considering I only have about 3 years left in high school(and I guess to train also) until I go to college whereas younger children who start at say, age 8 have a good nine or ten years. I'm also tall, so that might be an issue also.

1. At what point do you think I should start taking private lessons? I'm very anxious to learn more, but of course, not before making sure the skills I have now are perfected. As much as I would like to teach myself new things, I don't want to teach myself the wrong way, and then have problems trying to fix my approach later on.

2. What level do you think is the highest I might be able to reach in the next 3 years if I continue to work year round. I'm a fast learner and I'm not afraid of falling or getting hurt on the ice, since I've played soccer for 9 years and have been a goalie for 5, not to mention I survived preseason of highschool soccer this year.(that was horrible torture.. lol)

3. Can someone please explain to me one very simple thing. What part of the blade is the "slippery" as my LTS teacher called it, part that enables the blade to be able to spin? It's like, the ball of the foot right? I can never get my spins right so maybe that's why. Ha.

4. Well this one doesn't apply to me really, but I heard that skaters go before school to skate, at like.. 5:30 in the morning. How do they manange this rink time?

5. Sorry, one last question. I thought I saw this answered somewhere online.. but are there any roller blades that are very similar to ice skates so that you could practice ice skating while roller blading? Of course it would be significantly harder with the roller blades but I'd just like to know since I enjoy roller blading as well.

Thanks so much :!:

[Casey]

1. As soon as you can afford them. Group lessons are fine if you're not skating often or if you're just doing it recreationally, but they won't allow you to progress very quickly if you have the desire and talent. With a private coach you don't have to worry about averages. But it's expensive.

2. I think you can go quite a ways in 3 years. It all depends on commitment and motivation, mostly. That's easier said than done, unfortunately.

3. Under the ball, just enough so that the toepicks are not touching the ice or are barely scratching it as you spin. Spinning is simply something you will probably have to try literally thousands of times. Don't give up, it will come :)

4. Most rinks have freestyle sessions beginning very early in the morning. You will definitely want to get yourself up to a relatively decent level before hitting the freestyle sessions, because it's just figure skaters on uncrowded ice. They're great fun, and more expensive.

5. PIC skates. There are other brands, but PICs are the closest to ice skates. http://www.picskate.com/ Note that they're pretty much meant for an indoor surface - take them out on pavement and you'll wear down the rocker quickly defeating the whole purpose unless you change the wheels very frequently. They're also in the same price range as regular figure skates, which isn't cheap. :/

[xofivebyfive]

Thanks for much for the information. I also understand that my progress is determined by how much money me and my parents are willing to spend, how much time and effort I am willing to put into practicing and basically whether or not I have any talent at all. I just like to know a general estimate of certain things. Thank you once again. :D

[EastonSkater]

The first time I put on ice skates .... they were figure skates. In fact, that's all they had as rentals when I began skating. So I was oblivious to the fact that there were other kinds of skates out there (hockey skates, speed skates, nordic skates etc). So if we didn't know there were other types, then it was basically a case of just putting on the skates and getting used to them. The key for me when I started was just start off casually, like everybody else...hugging the walls and taking things slowly. That's how lots of people start. The toe pick will catch people off guard...but once you find out about it, it just makes you aware of what not to do. So probably won't get you too many times.

Although, on hockey skates, you won't have toe pick problems, although it should be more wobbly....as the hockey skate blades don't tend to extend to far to the rear of the boot.

[sue123]

Just a question, why do you assume you'll have to stop in college? I'm in college right now, and skating. Actually, I didn't start figure skating until I got in college. And it's even easier for me to skate at college because there's about 5 different rinks within a 30 minute drive, whereas by my house, there is one that is a 15 minute walk, and another about an hour and a half train and bus ride.

[Mrs Redboots]

Just a question, why do you assume you'll have to stop in college? Indeed, some of us didn't start skating until we were old enough to have children in college! And yes, we're pretty awful at it, but we're good enough to compete against people of our age and skill level, and have great fun doing it. I shall, I understand, have the honour of competing against a man of 86 and his dance partner in the near future.

Skating isn't just a sport for the young - in fact, to see our rink some mornings, you'd think it was designed for middle-aged men!

Don't ever let anybody tell you you're too old to start to learn to skate!

[xofivebyfive]

Well I assume that I won't have time to continue skating once I reach college, but who knows. Depending on what college I decide to go to and how far away the nearest rink is will determind that, I guess.

[xofivebyfive]

Oh, and one more question. You've all been very helpful. Do you have any tips on two foot spins. Any part of them? I'm stuck in Pre Alpha New Adult class even though as I said before, the rest of my class is walking on the ice and I can do all the other elements that I need in order to move to Pre Alpha and Saturday was our first class. I basically go to the rink three or four times during the week to get my mind off of school and it does get boring just going around in circles. Can any of you wonderful people help explain to me how to spin. I tried spinning so many times today and I was either stopped by my toe pick or I was too far back on my blade. I can't seem to be on the right area, and I don't really know how to start a spin either. If you think I should wait until I learn this in group lessons, then I'll wait. But I'd like to move along as soon as I've mastered what I have to. Otherwise, I'm going to get bored going around in circles, you know? I'm going again tomorrow and I'll probably spend a good hour just trying to figure out spinning, so any tips that you have, I would appreciate greatly.

[sue123]

Well I assume that I won't have time to continue skating once I reach college, but who knows. Depending on what college I decide to go to and how far away the nearest rink is will determind that, I guess.

I actually think it's easier to skate in college. You make your own schedule, and oftentimes, especially during your freshman and soph. years, you will have a choice of times when to take your classes. So you can get the rink schedule and then register for the classes that fit with that.

As for your two foot spin, my coach told me that once a long time ago, they had some new crew come to the rink, and they asked her to teach the news anchor to spin for the camera. So she's all nervous, thinking how is she going to teach this person who never put on skates a two foot spin. So the way she taught her was the way she taught me at first.

if you're spiining CCW, (most common if you're right handed) put your left toepick in the ice. With your right foot pump around yourself a couple times, and then bring in the foot, get off the toepick, and tighten your stomach and tush, don't slouch, don't drop your head, stand straight, and you should be spinning. Oh, and pull your arms in towards you when you start your spin to help pull you around. So when your pumping, your arms are out, and then pull them in.

I'm not sure if I explained this well. That's for a basic two foot spin from a standstill. If you're left handed, just reverse the directions. But I'm sure once you take lessons, they will pick it all apart anyway. When you're learning on your own, you have a tendency to develop bad habits, which will be very hard to unlearn later on. So your best bet would be to wait until you start lessons. But if you're going to mess around on your own, you should at least have some idea of what you're supposed to do.

[DressageChica]

I also agree with Sue. Skating in college is MUCH easier. My skating has progressed more in the past few months because I am able to go to the rink quite a lot.

If you choose not to join a sorority, and don't party like mad, you will actually have time for something besides studying. I often times take my privates during unused ice time. My rink manager is cool with letting me have the ice to myself and he lets me listen to my own music. However, I also skate in 2-3 group classes a week (depending on test schedule).

I really love group classes, but then again I have a skating coach from heaven. Our rink *REQUIRES* that you take group lessons if you want to take private lessons. Yes, all of our high freestyle skaters take group classes. We have a group class for FS 5+. It's so great because we can work on uncaptured moves and lovely connecting aristic moves or footwork patterns.

Another thing, don't worry right now about how far you will get. Just work really hard on all of the basics. If you have unpolished edges, turns, and crossovers everything else is going to be difficult. No offense, but I don't think you're going to be skating in the Olympics (heehee). But, that doesn't mean that you can't "get good" or at least have fun trying. I started skating (again) at 17 and am working on like FS 4 and 5 stuff. I will probably never get my axel, but there are so many other uncaptured moves that I CAN get!

I think you should focus on skating for fun and as a form of recreation, excercise, and a means to relieve stress from school. Don't take it too seriously and don't bother yourself with "training" hard core. That might make you not like skating. You don't want to get burned out. Just have fun, learn as much as you can, and make new friends!

Cheers!

[Anita18]

Hah, it's actually harder to skate in college for me, mostly because I'm a science major and my lab times conflict with weekday public session times! It also didn't help that I didn't have a car, and would spend half the day trying to GET to the rink and then skate for 2 hours, and then try to get back! I would really have to reserve the entire day for skating.

But yeah, if I really REALLY wanted to do it, I could have hit the freestyle sessions in the morning or something. I tried that once by taking the bus - woke up at 4AM to get to a 7AM session and got back just in time for my 11AM class. :P That was just too much though.

It's definitely easier if you have a club on your campus. My friend at CMU (who's at preliminary level I believe) competed at collegiates in Boston last year and had a lot of fun. Unfortunately, my college is quite small and there are only 4 or so figure skaters in the entire area, which also takes into account the 4 adjacent colleges. :P I have a friend who tested senior level MITF and she barely skates anymore because of work and other interests that she took up while here. It's not a bad thing - she's just finding new things that she likes.

But even if you don't skate very often at all, it's still worthwhile, at least for me. I'm also very lucky that my muscle memory can sustain my habit of not skating for a month or two at a time, cause I really haven't lost any ability since I went to college. I might have even improved a bit. :) And I started at 16, like you. Unfortunately, I never did have the money nor time for private lessons, but it's not like you won't be able to skate at all if you don't have a private coach.

[sue123]

Hah, it's actually harder to skate in college for me, mostly because I'm a science major and my lab times conflict with weekday public session times! It also didn't help that I didn't have a car, and would spend half the day trying to GET to the rink and then skate for 2 hours, and then try to get back! I would really have to reserve the entire day for skating.



NO EXCUSES! I'm a biochemistry major, and I go skating during the day! Although it is easier this year (senior year!) now that I got most of my classes out of the way. Both last semester and this semester, I only need to take one lab class, granted it's a 6 hour lab, often involving having to come in the day before to make a buffer, and coming in a couple days afterwards to analyze your data, but still...

Although it does help having a car. I'm not sure how i"d get to the rink if I didn't have a car.

[Anita18]

Psh, class in the morning, lab in the afternoon! :P Plus I didn't have a car until this year so it was basically impossible for me to go at all during the weekday.

This year it's gotten a lot better since I do have a car, but I mostly used it last semester to drive to a city 30 minutes each way to take an art class several times a week. Yup, skating's just one of the things I like to do - I find it fun, but it's certainly not something I can use for a job, like I'm thinking about my art and science and such. I already feel bad for not working on my art or piano, let alone skating!

And everyone says senior year is easy - NO IT ISN'T! Because I want to go into medical illustration, and I decided SO late (just last year), I'm cramming in science classes like crazy. Everyone I talked to was like, "You're insane.." but I'm hanging on, 3 lab classes and an experimental thesis be damned. Plus my experimental thesis involves live animals I have to feed and clean up after every day - you biochemistry majors just have to take stuff out of the freezer at your own convenience. :P

[Perry]

You oculd always consider skating for a collegiate team. I actually first got interested in my college because it was the only place where I knew I could continue skating and study in the environment I wanted.

[DressageChica]

I'm also a science major....Molec Bio....

[sue123]

And everyone says senior year is easy - NO IT ISN'T! Because I want to go into medical illustration, and I decided SO late (just last year), I'm cramming in science classes like crazy. Everyone I talked to was like, "You're insane.." but I'm hanging on, 3 lab classes and an experimental thesis be damned. Plus my experimental thesis involves live animals I have to feed and clean up after every day - you biochemistry majors just have to take stuff out of the freezer at your own convenience. :P

One of the labs we had the option of choosing is to analyze the amount of urea in urine. Catch is, you need to pee into a beaker over a 24 hour period and record the time and volume you peed, and then pour a few ml's into a sample vial. So everywhere you go, you have to carry your beaker.

Although I was smart and didn't choose that lab, but a couple other groups did and have to walk around with a 600 ml beaker to pee into.

[xofivebyfive]

Just wanted to say that I was really excited today because I was trying to spin(even though I should probably wait until I'm taught the correct way, but I was really bored) and after so many tries and not getting it, I finally did. I let out a huge squeal and all the little girls with skating dresses on looked at me like, "what a freak" you know? But I didn't care. I was so happy! And I did a reallly good one, like 4 or 5 revolutions and i could feel my arms go out and I pulled them back in and went faster. It was an amazing feeling. I probably looked so horrible and sloppy but I was so excited that I at least can do it now. But the way I enter it is my problem. The only way I can do it is if I, this will be a weird explantion since I'm not really familar with terms, am gliding on my right foot, turn my left foot to the side so my feet are like a T and spin around from there. I'm assuming that that is a very bad way to do it, so if you can tell me how to start a spin, that would help. I tried doing the pivot thing with the toepick but that didn't really help me at all. Oh, and don't worry if my technique for spinning is really horrible, I'm not going to spin again until I learn it during a private lesson because I took a really nasty fall today trying to do it. I just wanted to know that I CAN spin.

[Casey]

The only way I can do it is if I, this will be a weird explantion since I'm not really familar with terms, am gliding on my right foot, turn my left foot to the side so my feet are like a T and spin around from there. I'm assuming that that is a very bad way to do it, so if you can tell me how to start a spin, that would help. I tried doing the pivot thing with the toepick but that didn't really help me at all. Oh, and don't worry if my technique for spinning is really horrible, I'm not going to spin again until I learn it during a private lesson because I took a really nasty fall today trying to do it. I just wanted to know that I CAN spin.
Spins are actually really hard to fall on once you have the general idea, so don't hesitate to practice them like crazy. But I'm guessing you fell on the entry? There are a few different ways to go into spins, depending on what you can do. They all result in being able to step onto your left foot at the right angle which won't carry the risk of falling. With the exception of the back crossover method, they all start with a right back outside edge, so you can think of even more ways to do an entry as you progress.

First some common abbreviations that I'll use here:
LFO, RBO, LFI, RFI == Left Forward/Backward Outside/Inside - refers to which edge of the blade you're on (inside is towards the inside of your feet, i.e. big toe, outside is out towards the side, i.e. little toe); backward/forward refers to which direction you're skating.

1. Do backwards crossovers (or similar backwards movement if you can't) in a clockwise direction. Hold a RBI edge, then turn your body to the left and step onto a LFO edge, going into the spin. This is the most common way you'll see people practicing spins. It's nice because you can vary the speed at which you go into the speed fairly easily - sometimes it's fun to tear into one really fast.

2. Forward on the left foot, doing a left forward inside (RFI) 3-turn, which puts you onto a RBO edge. Turn the body and step onto a LFO edge, going into the spin. Some folks find this easier, and it allows you to go into it following a line or arc, rather than requiring as much room as the back crossovers method. I don't like it as much though.

3. RBO spiral, which means it's inherently harder than the others. Hold the spiral until you feel like it's about time to stop, then stop around onto an LFO edge into the spin. I like doing these too, but they take the most room.

4. AKA the "Crazy Casey". ;) RBO hydroblade, then stand up at least a bit and step around onto an LFO edge into the spin. I have videos of these here (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/2005-07-06/). They're old and not very good (these were some of the first ones I ever did), but you can get the idea.

Also, feel welcome to peruse my skating videos (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/) - while not terribly good they show a bunch of different stuff.

[Casey]

1. Do backwards crossovers (or similar backwards movement if you can't) in a clockwise direction. Hold a RBI edge, then turn your body to the left and step onto a LFO edge, going into the spin. This is the most common way you'll see people practicing spins. It's nice because you can vary the speed at which you go into the speed fairly easily - sometimes it's fun to tear into one really fast.
Examples of that method here (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/2005-12-12/).

One other thing I forgot to mention is that once you can consistantly do spins, the next thing to try is cross-foot spins, where you bring the free leg in front of the spinning leg (which 99% of my videos show, because I find that method much easier). Ideally you cross it with the free foot up near the knee and then as you pull in you slide it down the outside of the spinning leg, but I don't really do that because I suck. :P

[mikawendy]

Indeed, some of us didn't start skating until we were old enough to have children in college! And yes, we're pretty awful at it, but we're good enough to compete against people of our age and skill level, and have great fun doing it. I shall, I understand, have the honour of competing against a man of 86 and his dance partner in the near future.

Okay, Annabel, I've never seen you skate, but I can tell from your postings in the lessons/practices thread that you are NOT "pretty awful."

And xofivebyfive, some colleges even have their own skating rinks. (I don't know about many myself, but I think Colgate does, though I don't know if they have a figure skating program. But there are probably others out there...)

[xofivebyfive]

Spins are actually really hard to fall on once you have the general idea, so don't hesitate to practice them like crazy. But I'm guessing you fell on the entry? There are a few different ways to go into spins, depending on what you can do. They all result in being able to step onto your left foot at the right angle which won't carry the risk of falling. With the exception of the back crossover method, they all start with a right back outside edge, so you can think of even more ways to do an entry as you progress.
I actually don't remember how I fell.. interesting.. I want to say that when I was spinning, blade collided with the other.. either that or it must have been going into it.. I can only remember the direction I was facing when I fell and landed.. got a nice bruise on my backside now and accidently landed partially on my wrist.. but it should be fine by tomorrow. But is the way I was doing it wrong or hazardous to my skating or will it harm me if I keep practicing spinning by entering them that way? And thanks for all the tips and videos, I'll check them out and remember the tips when I go to skate on Thursday. 8-)

[flippet]

When I went back to school, part of my choice of school was that they had a rink, and I could finally learn to skate. I don't know what school choices you had in mind, but it seems to me that a lot of state colleges have rinks.

[flippet]

But the way I enter it is my problem. The only way I can do it is if I, this will be a weird explantion since I'm not really familar with terms, am gliding on my right foot, turn my left foot to the side so my feet are like a T and spin around from there. I'm assuming that that is a very bad way to do it, so if you can tell me how to start a spin, that would help.


Um. Yeah. It sounds like your heels are closer together than your toes, and that's the opposite of what you want for a two-foot spin. Plus, by turning your left foot like that, the blade ends up perpendicular to the direction of motion--if you set it down like that, you're going to trip it up, and fall. If you've managed to go around that way without falling, you've gotten lucky--your right skate was more curving than going straight, and it 'led' the left blade around. Your weight is probably too far to the back of your blades as well.

Here's my 'public skater' lesson. To do a two-foot spin, stand with your feet slightly less than shoulder-width apart, pigeon-toe slightly, wind your arms up, bend your knees just a tad, then release the arms and knees--slowly spring up, and swing the arms around. Your weight should be under the ball of each foot. You'll be spinning on the inside edge of each blade.

Now....when you take lessons, you'll probably learn it a touch differently. When you do, go with that. This is just what I'd tell a public session skater who goes 'whoa, that was neat...can you teach me to spin?'

The 'pivot with the toepick' thing never works for me either, though some folks swear by it. I always go too far over the pick. :P I was thrilled when I got past the pivot requirements in the tests!

[Casey]

ohhhhhhhhh you're talking about a 2-foot spin. Nevermind all my advice then - save that for later. 2-foot spins are harder in my opinion...

[xofivebyfive]

flippet I did what you said to do today and it worked. Yay for me. The first time I tried it I had to do it like, 4 times in a row for me to actually spin but after that it worked. I htink my biggest issue is putting my weight on the right part of the blade.

[flippet]

flippet I did what you said to do today and it worked. Yay for me. The first time I tried it I had to do it like, 4 times in a row for me to actually spin but after that it worked. I htink my biggest issue is putting my weight on the right part of the blade.

Glad I could help! :D

[Raye]

Okay, Annabel, I've never seen you skate, but I can tell from your postings in the lessons/practices thread that you are NOT "pretty awful."

And xofivebyfive, some colleges even have their own skating rinks. (I don't know about many myself, but I think Colgate does, though I don't know if they have a figure skating program. But there are probably others out there...)
I've SEEN Annabel skate - she was in my Interp category at Mountain Cup last year - and can vouch for the fact that ANNABEL, YOU ARE NOT PRETTY AWFUL:!: In fact, I thought you did quite well and looded PRETTY GOOD

(sorry for yelling, but it's true)

[jazzpants]

Annabel, I have never heard such RUBBISH in my life!!! :roll: I think you're a pretty decent skater based on what I've read on the lesson/practice thread. AND...I trust Raye's observations... ;) :P

[Mrs Redboots]

I've SEEN Annabel skate - she was in my Interp category at Mountain Cup last year - and can vouch for the fact that ANNABEL, YOU ARE NOT PRETTY AWFUL:!: In fact, I thought you did quite well and looded PRETTY GOOD

(sorry for yelling, but it's true)Oh, come on, Raye, you outskated me by a mile! And probably will again this year. I'm far too slow, too hunched (nature, alas), and not enough kneebend.... okay, with Husband we can pass with a shove on a good day, but solo? Nah..... I can caper.

Next week, if we remember, I'll get Husband to video me doing my new Interp, and post it.... mind you, do I really want you to get a sneak preview????