Outside Edge

[AW1]

Stupid question I know but...

I had my first private lesson the other day, and I was trying to do swing rolls (or spring rolls as I was calling them YUMMMM!!!!!!!!) and saches (sp?) and the coach was telling me I was doing the whole thing on an inside edge!?

I couldn't work out how that was so, and so I wondered how do you guys tell when you're on an outside edge? The one time I got it right (absolute fluke!) I couldn't even tell the difference :frus:

[renatele]

At the beginning level, I guess your swing rolls and chasse's were rather shallow - the edges didn't curve around much, did they?

The outside edge is the edge on the "outside" of your body - and when you are on the outside edge going fowards, if you are on the left foot, you'll be going in a curve CCW, if you are on the right foot - CW. If you'd hold the edges long enough, you'd eventually trace a circle, with the size depending on the depth of the edge - in other words, the more curvy the edge, the deeper it is, and the smaller the circle (also dependent on the speed you are going at).

For the outside edges, the body weight has to be fully shifted to that foot and a little bit "outside", too (slightly into the circle your edge is making) - this is quite scary in the beginning and very unnatural, as we don't really do it off-ice when walking, etc. Most beginners prefer to skate on inside edges because the weight is then towards the "inside", closer to being between the two feet, and one can always easily put the other foot down to "catch" oneself.

Uhm, am I making any sense at all?

[Skate@Delaware]

Yeah, it's hard at first.
If you are on a left outside edge, doing a left spring roll (he he-we call them that too!) you will go left (while the right leg swings), if you are doing a right swing roll, you will go right (while the left leg swings). When you get better at them, you will lean in that direction....

My hubby got confused on chasse's, he thought there was a definite "pattern" to it like...skate..skate. lift.skate, etc. I was doing them on the circle to the music like stroke, crossover, chasse, stroke, crossover, chasse and he was confused.....I was trying to get him to go faster!!! :twisted: like 8 chasses on the circle instead of 2.

I just saw the previous post and wanted to add-try doing your rolls and edges on the large hockey circles....it will help you get on edge!

[AW1]

thanks for the tips. I'm only relatively new to skating, so it all still feels a bit weird really. Not surprising my coach (who is also a great friend) doesn't quite get how I can't do it just like my 4 year old daughter does! Oh that of a young mind!

Skate@Delaware, we don't have hockey circles on our rink? I don't think we do anyway!

[Mrs Redboots]

No, children take to skating far more easily than adults do!

Quick tip someone gave me once, which helped - if you want to do an outside edge, think of bending your knee in line with your little toe. If you want to do an inside one, bend your knee over your big toe.

[Skate@Delaware]

thanks for the tips. I'm only relatively new to skating, so it all still feels a bit weird really. Not surprising my coach (who is also a great friend) doesn't quite get how I can't do it just like my 4 year old daughter does! Oh that of a young mind!

Skate@Delaware, we don't have hockey circles on our rink? I don't think we do anyway!

What??? No Hockey CIRCLES!! What kind of rink is that??? he he he! You will just have to visualize a big circle. Once you start one (should be about 10-15 feet diameter) you can keep tracing over the same one...over and over and over again. When you get bored in one direction, switch to the other foot and go in the other direction! Tons of boring fun!

[Perry]

The easiest way to tell what edge you're on when you're going forward is that you should be travelling in the direction of your skating foot (so if you're on your left foot you should be "turning" to the left -- the front of your skate should point outside, or to the left).

[Mrs Redboots]

What??? No Hockey CIRCLES!! What kind of rink is that??? I once had to compete in a rink with no hockey circles, and it was horribly disorienting - didn't know whether I'd started my programme in the right place, or anything! I wonder how the Olympic skaters managed, as they didn't have hockey circles to place their programmes, either.

That rink had really nice ice, though....

[EastonSkater]

What??? No Hockey CIRCLES!! What kind of rink is that??? he he he! You will just have to visualize a big circle. Once you start one (should be about 10-15 feet diameter) you can keep tracing over the same one...over and over and over again. When you get bored in one direction, switch to the other foot and go in the other direction! Tons of boring fun!

Yep...I think he's right. The ice rink where he goes to is a full size ice rink....but I don't think it has hockey circles. Somewhat ridiculous really.

[sue123]

Have you learned inside edge swing rolls yet? My coach told me they're easier, and had me start them after I had started the outside edge ones. If they're easier, I don't understand why I couldn't have done those first, but oh well. Outside edge swing rolls are among my better moves, not a great move, but getting better.

To help you get onto the edge, my coach always tells me something about a longitudinal/latitudional axis, thinking it would help me since I"m a "science" person. Unfortunantly, I never quite grasped hte whole axis thing, but I think it has something to do with needing to step onto a longitudional axis so your foot is already on the edge and you''re not fighting your body to go from either an inside edge or a flat blade.

BUT, what did work for me, is when I swing my foot through, to turn it out so when I step, it's the outside edge. And also, I always have to remember to keep my shoulders over my hips so I'm not fighting the edge. You really need to trust yourself to get that edge, because it's scarier than insides. I would first just practice holding the edges alone. And ideally, you should be going in a smooth circle.

[Tessie]

I once had to compete in a rink with no hockey circles, and it was horribly disorienting - didn't know whether I'd started my programme in the right place, or anything! I wonder how the Olympic skaters managed, as they didn't have hockey circles to place their programmes, either.

That rink had really nice ice, though....

There is an ice rink complex near me. There is one rink devoted to figure skaters. No hockey circles at all, however on the wall there are various X's marked with large tape. It appears to be where skaters want to mark their jumps (some in the corner) or spins. Definitely keeps your head up!

[Skate@Delaware]

Our ice dance instructor says they aren't really hockey circles....they are alignment marks for the different ice dances!

I love her take on them!

I would have a hard time without the circles....when I get near the red dots I think "OMG, time to turn!" because I have poor depth perception! :oops: (that's why I don't skate without my glasses too often)

[mikawendy]

I would have a hard time without the circles....when I get near the red dots I think "OMG, time to turn!" because I have poor depth perception! :oops: (that's why I don't skate without my glasses too often)

I *can't* skate without glasses or contacts. Heck, I wouldn't even be able to tell if you were smiling or frowning at me if I didn't have contacts or glasses on.

I don't know what I'd do without the hockey circles and lines. Even with them, I'm pretty bad as it is with fitting my patterns in properly.

(Sorry to hijack the thread, AW1....
About your original question--sometimes I also have trouble telling if I'm on an edge or skating on a flat. I've asked my coach to yell at me when I'm on a flat when I should be on an edge.)

[AW1]

thats ok mikawendy, I'm happy for you to hijack my thread any time! :lol:
Actually I don't skate with my glasses on, as although I need them for driving and really I can't see detail more than about 6 feet in front of me, I find they inhibit my spacial awareness. That is, that I seem to have a better perception of my space when I'm not wearing them - I am not sure if that's just because I'm incredibly vain and I hate wearing them and that's how I've adjusted or what.

Anyhoo....

EastonSkater Yep...I think he's right. The ice rink where he goes to is a full size ice rink....but I don't think it has hockey circles. Somewhat ridiculous really. Actually it's She, not he! LOL! no harm done! Lucky I'm not in a PMT mood or you'd know about it! :twisted:

I am supposed to be going to the rink today so I will give it another shot... maybe it's just my fear of falling holding me back?

[EastonSkater]

EastonSkater Actually it's She, not he! LOL! no harm done! Lucky I'm not in a PMT mood or you'd know about it! :twisted:

I am supposed to be going to the rink today so I will give it another shot... maybe it's just my fear of falling holding me back?

OMG!! woahhHH .... lucky hehehehe. Oh yeah.....the outside edge thing....even if you're not very good at getting on an outside edge right now, you will get it eventually. It's just like first riding bikes. At first, everybody starts off wobbly and things. But once they've gotten used to it, then they can really venture out to see what else they can do. So edges also come naturally. Coaches can say what you should do, but it's up to the body to figure out what it's supposed to feel like, and how to do it physically. A great way to test limits is to wear elbow pads and knee pads, plus helmet, and then you can do a 1 foot glide and try to balance real good, build up to a moderate speed and then try to transfer weight over to the outside edge while having the gliding knee bent low, and try to lean the whole leg over to the outside. If you don't fall over, you'll find yourself curving to the outside. But if you fall, it doesn't matter since you got padding on. On the other hand, the other approach is to do the slow and steady way of learning. Just try to get on the outside edge a tiny bit and see if curve to the outside a little. Then as you get better and better at skating, you'll develop the edge skills along the way.

[cassarilda]

A great way to test limits is to wear elbow pads and knee pads, plus helmet, and then you can do a 1 foot glide and try to balance real good, build up to a moderate speed and then try to transfer weight over to the outside edge while having the gliding knee bent low, and try to lean the whole leg over to the outside. If you don't fall over, you'll find yourself curving to the outside. But if you fall, it doesn't matter since you got padding on. On the other hand, the other approach is to do the slow and steady way of learning.

Or you can do the suicidal way of learning that my hubby did... no padding, just pure guts and determination....

Push, hold the glide, lean into an edge, and if you stack it, get back up and do it again.... Guaranteed to learn quickly, to protect your bruises ;) BUT not so great if you would prefer not to spend most of the time on the ice in the beginning... BUT guaranteed to ensure you spend less time on the ice after a certain period of time :lol:

Me personally, I would just prefer that there are less people around so I CAN hold an edge without having to vere out of the way of everyone...

OH and what also helps, is to try off ice, hold the position, bending the front knee, and back leg up, and balance on the outside and then the inside parts of your base foot.... its not exactly how you should do it on the ice (so Ive been told :D ) BUT it gets you used to the sensation and balance :)

[Skate@Delaware]

A really good way we were introduced to deepening outside edges was in ice dance with the instructor slightly behind and holding our hands (out to side) while we skated. It really, really helped knowing she was holding on and not letting go (she is really strong)!

She also did the same for back edges, but we weren't allowed to "lean" on her and we had to look at her-not the ice (she kept talking to us the whole time).