Beginner pair skating exercises

[Casey]

So I haven't skated much at all the past couple months. On the bright side, I'm getting caught up on bills and have a little bit of leftover money.

But the other night I was hanging out with my skating friend Tabitha watching some of the pair skating at the Olympics, and she made the comment that she'd pair skate with me if I wanted. Heck yes I wanted! So I'm holding her to it. In another 2 months after this loan I have is finally paid off and done for, I'm going to get us some lessons with a coach who was formerly the French national pairs champion (whom I was going to hire on as my coach anyways whenever I started skating again). I'm also going to be spending plenty of time in the gym, since right now I can only comfortably handle 60-70 pounds overhead, and I need to double that which is going to take some serious work. :P But whee I'm excited! :D

So my question is this - for the next couple months we'll probably be able to skate about once a week - what are some simple exercises we could work on until we get a coach?

[jenlyon60]

Basic Stroking.... forwards, backwards, etc. Crossovers (F & B) in big circle, concentrating on getting unison in the stroking.

When doing the crossovers/progressives, remember that the trailing skater shouldn't be feeling like the end of the whip in a game of "crack the whip".

[NoVa Sk8r]

Lots and lots and lots of stroking exercises!!!
You need to feel the rhythm and synchronicity of this basic skating with your partner. It is the foundation for almost everything else.

You can work on pair spirals, which will help develop your posture and line and awareness of your partner.

And you can work on simple things like side-by-side jumps.
In fact, playing around with this was what helped Loops and me forge our partnership--we always had this cosmic oneness in our jumps. Even if we don't skate together for a month, this never goes away. But we had worked on that evertime we skated together, so that now, we take it for granted.

I DON'T recommend trying lifts or crazy pair spins without a coach. Several members here can tell you some horror stories! 8O

[Casey]

I DON'T recommend trying lifts or crazy pair spins without a coach. Several members here can tell you some horror stories! 8O
Okay, I might do too much freestyle stuff without a coach, but even I'm not that stupid!! ;)

[Casey]

...in a game of "crack the whip".
What is that, anyways? All I know about it is that there's a sign at one of the rinks that says it's not allowed...

[2salch0w]

So I haven't skated much at all the past couple months. On the bright side, I'm getting caught up on bills and have a little bit of leftover money.

...

So my question is this - for the next couple months we'll probably be able to skate about once a week - what are some simple exercises we could work on until we get a coach?

Good luck on your new skating venture. Pairs rocks, so I hope it works out for you. To elaborate on the previous responses:

- Stroking: There are all different variations here, but the most common are the four directions of crossovers where you're connected. You're always facing her, so if going backwards you're leading the way (and checking over your shoulder), and if going forwards she is leading the way. You can also do crossovers in unison disconnected, as I'm sure you've seen for setting up side-by-side jumps. As for the whip thing - an easy mistake is for the leading person to pull the trailing person off the circle, which feels like being at the end of a whip. This technique was used on purpose in roller derby to catapult the scoring skater ahead. Not so good in pairs.

When connected, it is very important to not turn her arm inwards, which will cause her shoulder line to break and then she'll struggle to stay on your line. Keep your palm open to the ceiling and find a comfortable spot where your shoulder lines are aligned. Lastly, she should always be slightly inside your circle. This may vary based on your size differential, but it helps avoid the whip thing.

There are also exercises where you do some crossoves, then do mohawks or 3 turns together, then reconnect for a couple more crossovers. You'll probably need to be shown this, but it is certainly something you can work on safely w/out a coach.

Side-by-side jumps: Do you both go in the same direction? Talk to one another about your favorite setups, then work on doing them together, either out of shadow (disconnected) skating, or the connected crossovers, where you have a break shortly before the jump. However you set it up, the key is to have a "present" to one another just before the mohawk or 3 turn that will lead into the jump. This is where you lock into each others timing (and hopefully someday the cosmic thing that Stephen described.) Then it is just a matter of having the same basic technique to actually do the jump. Take turns watching each other do solo jumps. Do you both wait about the same time after the 3 turn? Do you have similar height and speed? If not, talk about adjustments that could be made.

Side-by-side spins: Just give each other plenty of room, then same as above, take turns checking each other out. On these someone should be calling it, so counting the revs and then calling "out". But don't worry about timing them for a while. That's really hard. Concentrate on stepping into it together at first.

Footwork: You can learn each other's footwork sequences, then practice doing them side by side. Very safe, just give room.

Lifts: There is a lot you can do off the ice, which is something you'll do even when you get on-ice lifts. Your coach will also be very helpful with this, but you can get started on your own. Just stretch, don't go for too much - basic common sense. These are hard to describe, but some good starting lifts are the loop and the stag. For the loop, you'll but your hands on the small of her back and she'll grab your wrists. She needs to arch her back on the way up. Go down in your knees together (someone count it out) and then lift her so that her hips are at your shoulders. Keep your elbows in and keep her close. Turn your head so the side of your face is against her back. When you're ready, you can put this same lift overhead. Her legs should be in an open loop jump position. For the stag, she extends her left leg back like a back spiral but she keeps her torso upright (assuming you are CCW skaters), you put your right hand around her waist (from behind) and grab her on the left side of her lower abdomen, then with your left hand you lift her by her left thigh just above the knee.

Once you get these, practice making the turns. These dry land exercises need to be done for quite a while before you go to the ice. And don't even think about overheads for a while. If I read it right, you can lift about 60 lbs overhead and she's in the 130s? How much do you weigh? Overheads may not be in your future. It would probably take a guy of about 200 lbs to lift a lady overhead at that weight. Keep in mind, even if you can do it on dry land, doing it on ice is another thing. You'll want to be able to lift your partner plus 30 pounds on the ground before you'd do the same lift on the ice. I can put my partner in a platter on the ground w/ very little effort, but we're just starting to get it on the ice. And I'm not willing to do the steps yet.

Yes, you do have your work cut out for you in the gym. Let me know if you have any questions about weight training for all this. The nice thing about working out with a partner is that you can skip "shoulder day" once you get the overhead off ice lifts. It's a great workout.

Again, good luck to you! Have fun.

Tim

[Isk8NYC]

I was wondering why you said you were spending tons of time at the gym. You seem like a guy who has a reason for doing things.

Start working on just skating together in various couple positions: Kilian, Tango, Shoulder Hold, etc. I think I remember your posting about buying a rulebook. If it was the ISI rulebook, take a look at the Couple and Dance tests. The lower-level tests are things that you could just practice together.

Good luck!

[sunshinepointe]

Crack the whip - I believe its when a "train" or line of people pull each other around the ice and the skater on the end gets "whipped" off the end - can be super dangerous...I'm not explaining it well, but I notice a lot of younger kids on publics enjoy doing this and don't understand why it isn't allowed.

[samba]

Hi Casey

I'm so glad you got a partner, I agree with all that has been said, also remember that your partner needs to be strong too, especially in the arms and wrists for future under-arm and press lifts etc. Wrist bands are a good idea in the early days, as they take a LOT of strain (speaking from experience here).

Let us know how you get on, I'm so excited for you.

Cheers
Grace

[Casey]

Do you both go in the same direction?
Yes.

Take turns watching each other do solo jumps. Do you both wait about the same time after the 3 turn? Do you have similar height and speed?
Oh, we've done plenty of that without even thinking about pairs. Her jumps are slower and smaller, but her spins are much better - it's a tradeoff. Of course she has better form in everything, that's just an unfair advantage. ;)

If I read it right, you can lift about 60 lbs overhead and she's in the 130s? How much do you weigh? Overheads may not be in your future. It would probably take a guy of about 200 lbs to lift a lady overhead at that weight.
I'm 155lbs currently. 60 pounds overhead means 60 pounds of free weight comfortably managed - if I am strictly lifting and it's i.e. one of the pieces of gym equipment where the weight is held inplace so it can only move up and down, I can lift a bit more. I definitely have a lot of work to do, but I figure we have plenty of other things to work on in the interim, and if I can never do an overhead lift, well that's okay too.

Let me know if you have any questions about weight training for all this.
Well, any advice is welcome. I've been getting a pretty good all-around workout in, with an emphasis on core strength. But am now shifting that emphasis to arm strength... I've only been going to the gym for a month (2-4 days a week for several hours each), so I'm still pretty much a newbie in that department. I feel like I usually get a pretty good workout in though...

Thanks for all the advice! Lots to think about!

[Casey]

I'm probably going to get in trouble for posting these...but I can't resist! ;)

[ waltz jump (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/2005-12-13/tabitha-waltz_jump-high_quality.mpeg) | toeloop (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/2005-12-13/tabitha-waltz_jump-high_quality.mpeg) | salchow (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/2005-12-13/tabitha-salchow-high_quality.mpeg) | loop (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/2005-12-13/tabitha-waltz_jump-high_quality.mpeg) ] - [ spin (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/2005-12-13/tabitha-spin-2.mpeg) | backspin (http://kc.sk8rland.com/video/ice_skating/2005-12-13/tabitha-backspin-3.mpeg) ]

[crayonskater]

Casey, didn't you have a wrist injury? It might not be a bad idea to have a doctor look at it to ensure it's still strong; would be bad to reinjure an injury that didn't heal properly.

There is probably a trainer available at your gym who can help you design a specific plan for your goals. Explain to him/her the eventual goal (to show the muscles used), and he or she can help you with a plan that will help not just with the lift, but with all the little muscles used in stabilizing the lift. (There's a reason competitive women pairs skaters weigh 90 pounds.)

[2salch0w]

Yes.


I'm 155lbs currently. 60 pounds overhead means 60 pounds of free weight comfortably managed - if I am strictly lifting and it's i.e. one of the pieces of gym equipment where the weight is held inplace so it can only move up and down, I can lift a bit more. I definitely have a lot of work to do, but I figure we have plenty of other things to work on in the interim, and if I can never do an overhead lift, well that's okay too.


Well, any advice is welcome. I've been getting a pretty good all-around workout in, with an emphasis on core strength. But am now shifting that emphasis to arm strength... I've only been going to the gym for a month (2-4 days a week for several hours each), so I'm still pretty much a newbie in that department. I feel like I usually get a pretty good workout in though...


Thanks for all the advice! Lots to think about!

Good deal on the same direction thing. Trust me, it's a challenge you don't need. It opens up some interesting opportunities, but when first starting it really makes things tougher.

Re: not getting overheads -- It surely is OK, don't get me wrong. With my first partner we had about the same weight differential as you guys do (15-20 lbs), but we could manage pretty decent low lifts. A lot of it is in technique, so once you learn the proper holds and get the timing right, it makes a big difference. She'll learn how to help you by jumping into it and supporting herself properly. That's the advantage - it isn't dead weight, like in the gym. But you do need to use more stabilizer muscles, and there's more to think about in terms of safety.

2-4 days per week is good, but I think that anything over an hour is too much. You may be overtraining, which will just inhibit muscle growth. If you just started then you may be doing a circuit (small amounts of exercise on all body parts), which is fine at first. But after a few weeks of that you should be ready to start doing splits by body part. For example, on Monday do chest and back, Wednesday do biceps and triceps, on Friday do shoulders and traps, Sat or Sun do legs. You should also pick 2 days per week to do abs. The rest of the body parts are good for once a week, but you'll be focusing on them longer and harder in each workout. I usually do three different exercises for 3 sets each for each muscle area. So on chest/back day, I'm doing 6 exercises for 3 sets (6-10 reps).

Pick up any issue of Men's Health (or similar type magazine) or just look online to find a program. For skating lifts, you'll need to focus on shoulders and back the most. Arms are important, too, but you use them less in the lifts than you'd think. Actually, the most stress on my arm muscles is the death spiral, which you won't be doing for a little while.

For shoulders the best exercises are the military press, shoulder flyes, rear delt pull backs, and front raises. There is usually a military press machine in most gyms, but the rest of it is best done with free weights or cables.

For back, you'll want to do lat pulls (usually a machine for this), lat pull downs (machine) and pull ups. There are others, but these are the basics.

You may also want to look into some supplements, especially protien shakes, so your hard work in the gym isn't for nothing.

Good luck.

Tim

[Casey]

Casey, didn't you have a wrist injury? It might not be a bad idea to have a doctor look at it to ensure it's still strong; would be bad to reinjure an injury that didn't heal properly.
2 of them, in fact. But both have been all better for months. I got lucky.

I was wondering why you said you were spending tons of time at the gym. You seem like a guy who has a reason for doing things.
Well, I started going to the gym because I mostly quit skating, it wasn't until was hanging out with my skating friend, at a bar of all places, idly watching the Olympics, that the prospect of pair skating came up. :P

But after a few weeks of that you should be ready to start doing splits by body part.
Hmm, I'll start thinking about that. I have indeed been doing circuits.

For shoulders the best exercises are the military press, shoulder flyes, rear delt pull backs, and front raises. There is usually a military press machine in most gyms, but the rest of it is best done with free weights or cables. For back, you'll want to do lat pulls (usually a machine for this), lat pull downs (machine) and pull ups.
Thanks, I'll keep these in mind and try to work up some good routines.

[beachbabe]

I can give you some advice on working out...try and do it the days you are not skating. I used to work out 5 days a week and i kept getting muscle cramps at practice. make sure you are giving the muscle time to rest, and drink protein powders...they work. get a tub of the protein shake mix at the gym and have one for breakfast every morning, and an extra in the evening if you worked out that day.

these are all tips my personal trainer gave me.

[crayonskater]

Your skating partner should probably do some light lifting, too; it will help your lifts and form if she is strong, too.

[icecatepairs]

Hi ,


I'm 2salcows other half...i agree with him that off ice in the gym training is important. we both do outr share. he lifts in the gym, but i have to say that he has packed on size just lifting me. he is right about that. as for the lady, well i was lucky that i have good upper body strength , but one of the things i noticed during the time i had the knee surgery was that i lost strength in the death spiral position. i use the cable cross pull at he gym, but I pull only with one arm in a diagonal direction from the an outstretched position to my opposite hip and then return slowly to the start position. other than that i do some triceps and biceps for general body strength in press lift. star and platter are more lower back and leg stuff. oh and once we got our lifts over the head , then on the ground i always wear ankle weights to imitate the weight of the skate. i find he can best find a consistent center that was and it is the same on and off the ice.


i do stairmaster or glider a few times a week to keep the weight down. but 2salcow is not too much taller than me and about 150...granted i am 5'1 and small but he had no problem getting me up in the air.

good luck and let us know if you have any more questions

[2salch0w]

Hi ,


I'm 2salcows other half...
...
i do stairmaster or glider a few times a week to keep the weight down. but 2salcow is too much taller than me and about 150...granted i am 5'1 and small but he had no problem getting me up in the air.

good luck and let us know if you have any more questions

As of this morning's weigh in I'm down to 144! Yikes! I had been pretty stable at 150, but for me it is such a struggle keeping the weight on. I feel like I was cursed by a gypsy out of a Stephen King novel. Maybe that 3 hour session yesterday burned it all off. I guess it's time to go force feed myself a protien shake. (I'm sure I'll be getting a ton of sympathy for this "problem".) :)

The important thing is that we have about 40 pounds separation between us, which is about where you need to be to get the harder lifts. And even still, I'd like to get back into the 150s to really feel confident about it.

What do you think the spread is at the top level? 70-80 pounds on average?

Tim

[icecatepairs]

hmm depends on what country they represent...i'd say the chinese teams....well what do you figure those girls weigh..my god at least 65 or 70 lbs...8O hmm sorry 2salcow..not a chance (lol..i will bust out the extra set of ankle and wrist weights for off ice training next practice!!!):D

[Blosmbubbs]

Most girls skaters that are teens and over weigh at least 100 and more. I know some lie about there weight too.

[Skate@Delaware]

All this talk has motivated me to hit the weights at the gym. Even though hubby doesn't want to do any more than ice dance, there are some interesting positions you could get into during OD that require the strength of both.

My boss (who is a huge hulking guy :roll: ) works out with kettlebells and I think I'm going to use them over the summer (the light ones-he lifts the 88 pound ones 8O ).

Wouldn't hurt!

I'm trying to "trade" 10 pounds of fat for 10 of muscle!!

[sue123]

As of this morning's weigh in I'm down to 144! Yikes! I had been pretty stable at 150, but for me it is such a struggle keeping the weight on. I feel like I was cursed by a gypsy out of a Stephen King novel. Maybe that 3 hour session yesterday burned it all off. I guess it's time to go force feed myself a protien shake. (I'm sure I'll be getting a ton of sympathy for this "problem".) :)

The important thing is that we have about 40 pounds separation between us, which is about where you need to be to get the harder lifts. And even still, I'd like to get back into the 150s to really feel confident about it.

What do you think the spread is at the top level? 70-80 pounds on average?

Tim

I'll make you a deal: Since you lost 6 pounds, I'll gladly donate 6 pounds of my weight to your cause. It is usually hard for me to part with anything, but I think I can make an exception for you. IN fact, if you want even more, I might be considering to go up to about 15 pounds.

[aussieskater]

I'll make you a deal: Since you lost 6 pounds, I'll gladly donate 6 pounds of my weight to your cause. It is usually hard for me to part with anything, but I think I can make an exception for you. IN fact, if you want even more, I might be considering to go up to about 15 pounds.

It's OK Sue, if it's hard for you to part with it, I'll save you the effort.

TAKE MINE!! TAKE MINE!! All 20 pounds. Throw away what you don't need - I *don't* want it back! :P Hey, I'll even express it to you.

[sue123]

It's OK Sue, if it's hard for you to part with it, I'll save you the effort.

TAKE MINE!! TAKE MINE!! All 20 pounds. Throw away what you don't need - I *don't* want it back! :P Hey, I'll even express it to you.

Hey! I offered first! I said, things are usually hard for me to part with, If he needs the weight, he can take it from both of us, and then make the weight difference between him and his partner rival those of the elite skaters.

[icecatepairs]

ok ladies ...i have an evening better idea... as the chic he throws around , I i should give him 5 lbs since that would be 5 less on my end 5 more on his end...ok and if you insist in donating as well i can prepare a tax deduction form! your post really made me laugh at the end of a tough work day...thanks !!!:D

[Mrs Redboots]

Well, I still weigh a little bit more than my Husband, but we have a reliable dance lift! I'm now working on being able to let go and have a free arm to wave in the air, which I shall need to be able to do in our dance, but.... yikes.... help......

Also, I saw a photograph of it (which I did not keep!) and, alas, I look just like a sack of potatoes, not the graceful figure of my imagination!:frus:

[2salch0w]

Hey! I offered first! I said, things are usually hard for me to part with, If he needs the weight, he can take it from both of us, and then make the weight difference between him and his partner rival those of the elite skaters.

Now now ladies, there's little enough of me to not go around.

146.5 this morning, so I'm deducting 1 pound from Sue, 1 pound from aussie and a 1/2 pound from icecate, because honestly, any more than that and she'll disappear and then I REALLY won't be able to catch her on the pair spin.

So jump on your scales and let's keep this moving in the right direction for all of us. (not you Tara, you're done)

Tim

[Petitemerveille]

I have a question, how good (which level) do you have to be (at least) to be able to start and learn how to pair skate?

[Mrs Redboots]

I have a question, how good (which level) do you have to be (at least) to be able to start and learn how to pair skate?Not very. Probably at the first level of your Federation's tests - i.e. not a total beginner, you've passed the learn-to-skate tests, but you don't need to have more than that. Assuming your partner isn't much more experienced, you can learn together. We have an adult pair at our rink who are both pretty much beginners, but they can put together a most acceptable, if very small, programme - side-by-side 3 jumps (waltz jumps), crossovers in hold, spirals, that sort of thing. You would have to be more experienced to start lifts and death spirals and thrown jumps, but these aren't allowed at the lowest levels of pairs skating anyway.

[icecatepairs]

Isn't he sweet...does he really know how much we ate at sectionals while out with frank r. edward, cara, and skate1965? maybe he thought i really was wearing two pairs of weights on monday morning.....

anyway its 147 now thanks to all the goodies at margarets house on thursday night,,

hey everyone...check out 2 salcows link to the adult pairs database website


and 2salcow..you keep eating and stay off the stairmaster...i will be on the one next to it doing enough for both of us!!!!

[jazzpants]

Now now ladies, there's little enough of me to not go around.

146.5 this morning, so I'm deducting 1 pound from Sue, 1 pound from aussie and a 1/2 pound from icecate, because honestly, any more than that and she'll disappear and then I REALLY won't be able to catch her on the pair spin.

So jump on your scales and let's keep this moving in the right direction for all of us. (not you Tara, you're done)

TimHey, Tim! I got about 10 extra pounds if you want. (And trust me! I can afford to lose it. I'm now up to about 132lb! 8O The scale's going the WRONG WAY!!! :evil:)

BTW: No face shot! I only see your hair and your back on that shot in the website. :( (But I agree with you... icecatepairs, don't lose any more weight! You ARE skinny!!!) :P

[2salch0w]

Hey, Tim! I got about 10 extra pounds if you want. (And trust me! I can afford to lose it. I'm now up to about 132lb! 8O The scale's going the WRONG WAY!!! :evil:)

BTW: No face shot! I only see your hair and your back on that shot in the website. :( (But I agree with you... icecatepairs, don't lose any more weight! You ARE skinny!!!) :P

OK jazz, I'll put you down for the next pound and a half. :)

Yeah, we have to get a better picture up there, but it is a nice one for Tara, and that's what it's all about, right. Aren't I just a stem or something? LOL And in that move you have to get someone from behind I suppose, unless it is from the side and we both turn our head towards the camera, which would probably look cheesy.

Andrea put a link to my family site up so you can see me from the front if you really want, and my beautiful wife and kids, too.

Tim

[jazzpants]

OK jazz, I'll put you down for the next pound and a half. :)

Yeah, we have to get a better picture up there, but it is a nice one for Tara, and that's what it's all about, right. Aren't I just a stem or something? LOL And in that move you have to get someone from behind I suppose, unless it is from the side and we both turn our head towards the camera, which would probably look cheesy.

Andrea put a link to my family site up so you can see me from the front if you really want, and my beautiful wife and kids, too.

TimLovely family pictures!!! :D Thanks for taking a pound and a half off me!!! And yes, it's ALL about making the lady look good!!! :twisted:

I'm gonna add an extra day to my cardio to see if I could burn things off a bit more. I've already limited the amounts I eat, so now it's time to kick up the cardio a couple of notches!!! :D

Good luck building up the muscles!!! :D (Grunt a lot! That might help too!!!) :lol:

[Petitemerveille]

You would have to be more experienced to start lifts and death spirals and thrown jumps, but these aren't allowed at the lowest levels of pairs skating anyway.

That would be when I'm 30 years old! Thanks Mrs. Redboots, explanatory reply. *grin*

Another silly question - for UK skaters - Adult Pair starts at which age? I would appreciate it if someone can list the age cut off points for each entry level.

Ta chuckies!

[icecatepairs]

Hi all.. a link to family ohotos is a fun idea...a little about the nonskating side of us...and tims kids are so cute..the first Time i met his son he was dressed in a karate suit (he had his class after our practice) and his hair was all gelled up. then he fell asleep while we wee practicing. i got to hang out a bit with his daughter in aston who is 10 going on 25. she has quite a grip on life for a 10 year old and would give dick button a run for his money for sure. would love to see more on the other teams failies as well. life is so crazy around my house that you could take a picture but the room would be empty . we would be at work or the rink or something.


thanks for all your compliments on the picture we had enough of a hard time getting the phitograher to get the photo , never mind both faces. but i let him pick the photo. we are not liking the sweaty practice clothes but we will live with it. so ladies,,keep donating..i think the friendly wager is great for all especially if it keeps my bottom half anchored to the ground..

[Mrs Redboots]

That would be when I'm 30 years old! Thanks Mrs. Redboots, explanatory reply. *grin*

Another silly question - for UK skaters - Adult Pair starts at which age? I would appreciate it if someone can list the age cut off points for each entry level.

Ta chuckies!In the UK, it's usually 21; however, for even the lowest level of pairs now they are expecting both partners to have Level 2 Bronze Elements & Free, which seems a bit excessive, so most pairs skaters I know are limited to club competitions, or the European ones, which follow the USFSA age groupings. I've forgotten what these are, again, as they changed last year, but someone else will know! Or they've been posted enough times on this forum.....