beginner questions on improving outside edge skating

[brucen32]

About a month ago, I posted a question on my forward skating problems and I got some really good tips and advice. Now my forward skating has improved dramatically.

We are now learning how to do crossovers. However, I am having a big problem with just doing the circle thrusts and getting on the outside edge. I can go around the hockey faceoff circle so it looks like I am on the outside edge, but I'm not really because as soon as I try to do it one legged I don't really follow a circular path anymore and I tend to go straight. It is the other leg being on the inside edge that makes it seem like I'm going in a circle and doing it right. When I bend more at the knee and try to force the outside edge, it's like there is a resistance and the skate blade is almost grinding against the ice because it seems like the boot wanting to go straight is fighting against the outside edge.

Perhaps I'm not on enough of an outside edge? I am really afraid of falling to the inside which is probably one reason why I'm having a lot of trouble. I assume a greater outside edge can be engaged by bending more at the knee, correct?

Any tips or exercises to improve outside edge skating? Of note, I'm using hockey skates for all of this.

Thanks for any responses.

[Kevin Callahan]

It's that gosh darned sitting position. Although you should always have a bit of a sit going on (hey, I'm a poet and... etc) when skating, I have found this is really apparent when doing crossovers even more so when doing backwards crossovers. "Sitting" allows you to bend those knees and when you pull the left foot back (CCW, admittedly, for this comment), you'll feel the use of the outside edge.

I hope this helps. Best way I can think to explain it. And I started with hockey. Principle is the same.

[EastonSkater]

Try this thing on 1 foot on the floor. Stand on 1 foot with a chair next to you to hold on to. Put all the weight on that standing foot. Lift the inside part of your foot away from the ground. And try to balance on whatever is left of your foot on the ground....which is the outside part of your foot furthest away from your shoulder. Bending your knee may help you control your balancing a bit better. When you're moving forward while skating, you will have more stability.......but that's what being an outside edge is going to be like when you get good enough at it. So if you want to go around a bend on 1 foot, you can use the inside edge of your outside skate to go around a bend. Or you can use the outside edge of your inside skate. When you combine both things together.....then that's the making of a cross-over.

[brucen32]

Try this thing on 1 foot on the floor. Stand on 1 foot with a chair next to you to hold on to. Put all the weight on that standing foot. Lift the inside part of your foot away from the ground. And try to balance on whatever is left of your foot on the ground....which is the outside part of your foot furthest away from your shoulder. Bending your knee may help you control your balancing a bit better. When you're moving forward while skating, you will have more stability.......but that's what being an outside edge is going to be like when you get good enough at it. So if you want to go around a bend on 1 foot, you can use the inside edge of your outside skate to go around a bend. Or you can use the outside edge of your inside skate. When you combine both things together.....then that's the making of a cross-over.

Ok I'll try that. But the balance on the outside of the foot can be achieved by bending the knee, rolling the ankle or a combination of both. I assume I want to keep the ankle straight and use only the bend in the knee to achieve the outside edge, right?

[VegasGirl]

Have you tried backward stroking?
I think that would help you a lot since it is a very similar motion just singled out for each leg and without actually crossing over (does that make sense? It's hard for me to put it in words...).

[EastonSkater]

Ok I'll try that. But the balance on the outside of the foot can be achieved by bending the knee, rolling the ankle or a combination of both. I assume I want to keep the ankle straight and use only the bend in the knee to achieve the outside edge, right?

Exactly right. The bending of the knee helps a lot to get yourself find a good balancing position on your foot. Yeah....try not to roll the ankle too much, or not roll it at all. Your standing leg (between your knee and the foot) should also be tilted by the same angle as the inside part of your foot comes away from the floor. For hockey skating.... your leg may be tilted, but your upper body compensates by keeping the upper body more or less over the skate on the ice.

[frvanilla]

For forward cross-overs:

1) Your arms should be "hugging the circle". Really check your arms. Push your back shoulder back until you feel strained. (I know... it hurts when you do it right.)

2) Most importantly, it's not enough just to bend your knees. Your weight could still be "outside" the circle. You have to put weight on your hip and sit down on the hip bone of your gliding leg and lean on it. This way your balance will shift to the inside of the circle instead of pull you out of the circle.

Once you get the "sit down on your hip bone" concept, it'll come along.

[InlineUnited]

Part of the problem may be your fear of falling to the inside. What happens when your body tends to tilt to the outside of the circle you're skating on (what my coaches call "banana" style) is it pulls your inside hip and leg up and doesn't allow you to get sufficient weight over that inside leg in order to get a solid "grip" on the ice to get a good tuck stroke, and not only that but the outside edge feels horribly uncomfortable.

The big thing really is going to be getting comfortable with your outside edges and making sure to lean into the circle while being overtop of your inside hip. Keeping your upper body outside the circle is *very* counter productive.

[sk8mommy]

I posted about the same issue earlier. I actually was having the same problem when doing front outside edge glides clockwise (right skating leg). What I found is that no one element was causing it, but a combination of things:
1) I really needed to focus on getting my weight over the skating leg. For some reason, that's easier for me on the left than the right.

2) I thought I was leaning into the circle enough, but really wasn't. I had to get past the fear of leaning in....I kept thinking I had to bend my knee more or tilt my ankle, but it was the lean that did it for me. My coach always reminds me to lean onto the table (the table being the circle).

3) My arms....I needed to get them in the hug the circle position and keep them there.

4) I am still fine tuning upper body/hip position and relationship to the circle....but am getting the feel for how my torso needs to be positioned (it seems to work best when I'm almost fully looking into the circle).

With all of this, I am finally getting front crossovers, but it has taken me about 5 weeks. Now I am working on making the crossovers productive, really using my edges and getting the feeling of the push. Up until last week, I sounded like a Clydesdale when doing crossovers. Now, a little less so.;)

[Casey]

Since you're working on crossovers, you can probably do outside edge to outside edge changes (there's a crossover between each one).

So you do a right outside edge, then crossover onto a left outside edge, and so on... They're a really good exercise for working on edges.

http://kc.sk8rland.com/outside_edge_thumb.jpeg

[Mrs Redboots]

So you do a right outside edge, then crossover onto a left outside edge, and so on... They're a really good exercise for working on edges.Um, I think you'll find these are called cross-rolls!

But I agree, they are a really good way of getting on to outside edges - Husband always does a lap of back cross-rolls to warm up his BO edges. My forward cross-rolls are my strongest move, and I usually do a lap of them as part of my warm-up.

[dbny]

Um, I think you'll find these are called cross-rolls!

But I agree, they are a really good way of getting on to outside edges - Husband always does a lap of back cross-rolls to warm up his BO edges. My forward cross-rolls are my strongest move, and I usually do a lap of them as part of my warm-up.

I think you are speaking from the perspective of an experienced skater who can already do secure outside edges.

Cross rolls (cross strokes in the US) are not a beginner move at all. To do them, one already needs solid outside edges. For someone who is not secure enough to do a rather shallow FO edge on a hockey circle, consecutive FO edges with a cross stroke also are going to be impossible.

In the US, cross strokes are in the Juvenile moves test (4th test of 8) instead of in Pre-Preliminary (1st test), where one does basic consecutive FO edges on a line with no cross stroke involved.

[Mrs Redboots]

In the US, cross strokes are in the Juvenile moves test (4th test of 8) instead of in Pre-Preliminary (1st test), where one does basic consecutive FO edges on a line with no cross stroke involved.Here, they are in our first dance moves test, as are the consecutive edges, although they are in the 2nd Field Moves test.

But I can't see what else Casey meant, crossing your feet on to an outside edge?

[Casey]

Here, they are in our first dance moves test, as are the consecutive edges, although they are in the 2nd Field Moves test.

But I can't see what else Casey meant, crossing your feet on to an outside edge?
I did mean cross rolls - at least once you get good at them that's what they're called.

Heaven knows what I would call the things I did initially, which were the same thing but much less rolling or graceful - they were however a much shallower outside edge to outside edge crossing sequence, and certainly were a beginner move - I was doing them almost the same time I learned to do a crossover. The mere action of crossing one's foot over the other and stepping onto it back and forth is a good exercise, regardless of how cross-roll-ey it is ;-)

I also remembered another one I used to do in my early days - I'd just ride an outside edge, shallow but it was as deep as I could muster then, and ride it around in a circle that got ever smaller until I ran out of speed. Holding the balance on an outside edge, again however shallow it might be, was very helpful.