Speed in scratch spin

[beachbabe]

So I have finally beaten the 3/4 revolution plateu that I get with every new spin I learn, fo the scratch spin. here's the trouble, I can't seem to get any speed into it. My first couple of revolutions are fast but the second i cross over my free foot it is jsut so frustrating how slow i go. I've tried readjusting technique, but for some reason I can't get any momentum in to it.

Could this be a problem with my blades? Or is there just some secret to it that i'm not getting ?

[vesperholly]

Are you scraping on your blade, or spinning on an edge instead of on the "sweet spot"? That could slow you down. You also might be rushing into the spin to get speed at the beginning, but you're out of control. Hard to know.

For good scratch spins, I try to start steady, slower and centered. I think about keeping my shoulders and hips level, and bringing them in straight. Scratch spins should speed up as you pull in.

[stardust skies]

Two things that might help:

1. You really shouldn't start to pull IN your extended free leg until about 3-4 revolutions, so if you are only getting 3-4 revs total, then you are inevitably pulling your free leg in way too soon. The longer it stays out there the more momentum you'll have when you bring it in.

2. Make sure you bring the arms in at the exact same time as the leg, and once it is in make sure you keep the arms in a really tight circle and push the leg and arms down at the same time. You shouldn't try to bring the arms up until you can achieve the speed you want with the arms down, as it's harder to build speed with the arms up. Just remember that every second you are in the spin, you should be doing SOME movement to build more and more momentum. Also remember not to bring your head down, as that will kill your speed.

[Isk8NYC]

Make sure that you're staying on the sweet spot of the blade. Many people tend to rock to the toepicks or further back on the blade. Both will slow you down. Watch the level of your shoulders and hips. If one or the other drops, it causes travelling.

I teach scratch spins with several stages:
∙ Start with an open position, arms checked, free leg extended to the front.
∙ Next, begin the scratch position. Arms are bent, with hands meeting in front of you. SHOULDERS are even. Free leg knee is bent, and free leg is crossed, but not touching, the skating leg.
∙ Now start the pull-in: arms bend to meet your body, free leg touches and starts to "slide down" the skating leg. This is where most of the speed happens, so be sure to stay on the centered sweet spot.
∙ When you're ready to end the spin, open up the arms and legs. Transition to the spin free leg and check the arms as you use the free leg to push yourself onto the back outside edge of the new skating leg.

My verbal cues for the arms on this spin are: hold the barrel, hug the barrel, and squeeze the barrel. Don't draw in too fast; try for 2-3 rotations in each position. If you rush the arms on any spin, the spin will peter out quickly.

A good drill is to do a simple pique spin with the legs while you practice the arms.

[DressageChica]

Wow, you guys are amazingly smart! Listen to them!!!

Use your leg and arms to help you go faster. If you don't go faster when you pull your leg in there is something WAY wrong! (Not really, you just need to make some adjustments...heehee.)

I was the queen of like throwing myself into spins and just pulling my leg in right away. I never understood the concept of letting centrifugal force take my leg and hold it out in front of me. I would just try to pull my leg in really quickly. But then someone enlightened me on this subject and my spins improved like 200%!!! I agree with the you should be in an open position for 3 to 4 revolutions. That will allow you to become centered so that you can really have a lot of speed when you do pull in. If you aren't centered, forget it. That open position will give you "big" circle tracings on the ice, and then as you pull your arms and leg in the circles will get smaller and smaller (hopefully inside of the big circle). That would show that you're really centered!!! My guess is that you're no where near centered if you're spinning like the way you describe. My fave exercise is standing in a T position on a line and then pushing off and making it back around to the line before you ever turn a three turn. You turn the three turn when you stand up in your knees. Then let yourself make that big circle so that you can center and then stay open for 4 revolutions. Once you do that you'll be like, wow. I feel comfortable like this and when you pull your arms and leg in you'll really feel yourself "pulling" in. You will have the force! And it will feel great! And just imagine how much faster it will be when you do back crossovers and the choctaw into it!

I feel the force so much that I literally feel my hip being "pulled". Good luck!

[Bothcoasts]

Wow, you guys are amazingly smart! Listen to them!!!

Use your leg and arms to help you go faster. If you don't go faster when you pull your leg in there is something WAY wrong! (Not really, you just need to make some adjustments...heehee.)

I was the queen of like throwing myself into spins and just pulling my leg in right away. I never understood the concept of letting centrifugal force take my leg and hold it out in front of me. I would just try to pull my leg in really quickly. But then someone enlightened me on this subject and my spins improved like 200%!!! I agree with the you should be in an open position for 3 to 4 revolutions. That will allow you to become centered so that you can really have a lot of speed when you do pull in. If you aren't centered, forget it. That open position will give you "big" circle tracings on the ice, and then as you pull your arms and leg in the circles will get smaller and smaller (hopefully inside of the big circle). That would show that you're really centered!!! My guess is that you're no where near centered if you're spinning like the way you describe. My fave exercise is standing in a T position on a line and then pushing off and making it back around to the line before you ever turn a three turn. You turn the three turn when you stand up in your knees. Then let yourself make that big circle so that you can center and then stay open for 4 revolutions. Once you do that you'll be like, wow. I feel comfortable like this and when you pull your arms and leg in you'll really feel yourself "pulling" in. You will have the force! And it will feel great! And just imagine how much faster it will be when you do back crossovers and the choctaw into it!

I feel the force so much that I literally feel my hip being "pulled". Good luck!

Great suggestions! I use some of them with my students, and they do help.

My only addition is to make sure that you're on a deep outside edge with a deep knee bend when pushing into the spin--if a CCW skater, then you're on a LFO edge. If doing the hockey line exercise above, hold that edge until you're back at the line before you turn and straighten up into the spin.

The stronger you keep your arms, the faster your spin will be. They should be fully extended when you begin spinning, even if it initially seems to slow you down. It's only after you center that you want to begin pulling your arms in.

[kayskate]

∙ Now start the pull-in: arms bend to meet your body, free leg touches and starts to "slide down" the skating leg. This is where most of the speed happens, so be sure to stay on the centered sweet spot.
.

When you slide the free leg down, hold the free blade parallel to the ice. You should feel like you are pushing the heel down, not the toe. You will get terrific speed. It is good to practice this holding a hockey stick so you force yourself to maintain the barrel hugging pose. You can spin really fast w/o even pulling the arms in if you have good control w/ the freeleg and push it down slowly.

[beachbabe]

just one more question,

When i get my free leg down, should I keep my toe or the middle of the blade towards the ice?

sry guys, i'm an awful spinner. I'm so much better at jumps.

[Isk8NYC]

When you slide the free leg down, hold the free blade parallel to the ice.

I concur: it's not toe or heel (although it feels like the heel) - it's the flat of the blade. You have to flex your foot somewhat, but don't overdo it or it'll be ugly. :?? Think of "pushing" your foot down and don't point your toe.

[MissIndigo]

You can spin really fast w/o even pulling the arms in if you have good control w/ the freeleg and push it down slowly.

I second that; I've done it. After bringing the free leg in I've then brought my arms in and that has resulted in one fast, centered spin for me. And it's very fun to do.

[Skate@Delaware]

I have had to re-do my spins since getting my body worked on (massage and chiro to re-align hips and rid neck and back of adhesions and spasms)....I'm hoping to do some spin work this week and get it back together.

I'm printing out these tips as reference in case I forget (as if ;) )

I will also second the advise about going deep on that LFO edge! When I started doing that, my spins improved greatly! You almost have to bend deeper than you think you need to on that leg.