Two random questions...

[crayonskater]

What is proper posture when doing backwards crossovers? I expect the back must be flat, but is any lean forward acceptable, or should I be vertical? (Can't tell by watching elites.)

Those of you who dance; do you have dance boots and blades, and did you when you were a beginning dancer?

[doubletoe]

Chest over knees, knees over toes, back arched, back arm a little high.

[flippet]

Any bend is at the hip, not at the waist.

[TashaKat]

Those of you who dance; do you have dance boots and blades, and did you when you were a beginning dancer?

Yes, and yes :) I didn't get them as a beginning dancer but that was because I was already free skating and had free blades and boots. I did find that turns were easier in dance blades (I have the MK Dance which are narrower too) and that it's not as easy to stand on your blade (which is how I got a suspected skull fracture ... stood on my own blade in the 14 step 8O ).

I didn't get the boots with the back cut out though I was going to ... may do again one day :) They give you a better 'point' but you do lose a bit of support.

[mikawendy]

Chest over knees, knees over toes, back arched, back arm a little high.

And if you're trying to do crossovers on a circle with a larger radius (such as trying to cover lots of distance, the back arm should be along or just to the outside of the circle (if it's too far to the inside, your shoulders/arm will pull you around into a tighter circle)

[Skate@Delaware]

back arm a little high.
I have the Physics on Ice video by Charlie Butler and he mentions the same position for the back arm. I was wondering why this was??? He never explained why.

No one at my rink does or teaches it that way :?:

does anyone know or is it just that way because that's the way it is???

[NickiT]

Just something I heard our top dance coach say in a class the other day. He had the kids skate backwards and asked each of them which part of the body should touch the barrier first as they skate back towards it. They all got it wrong with suggestions of back, shoulders etc. Luckily nobody said butt! Anyway he announced that if they were skating backwards with correct posture then the head which should be leading, would get there first. Worth thinking about!

Nicki

[CanAmSk8ter]

Those of you who dance; do you have dance boots and blades, and did you when you were a beginning dancer?

I do now (competing solo dance as a junior) but I didn't get the dance blades until I was on my Bronzes. Probably wouldn't have gotten them then except I wasn't doing freestyle anymore and I needed new ones anyway. I first got dance boots a few years ago when I was on my Pre-Silvers.

I don't usually recommend dance equipment to beginning dancers, especially ones who are doing freestyle too. I've had a couple of my adult students ask me about it. I think starting around the more advanced Pre-Silver stuff they're helpful, espcially if you're doing free dance and working on twizzles and stuff. Before that, I don't think they make much difference, and I almost wonder if the more drastic rocker and thinner blade would make stuff harder for a beginner; I can't say, since I don't know any true beginners who have had dance skates. If I had a beginner dead-set on dance blades I'd recommend Coronation Dance- essentially a shorter Coronation Ace with a slightly higher toepick. That's what I started out with; it wasn't a huge adjustment and I did some decent jumping in them when the mood struck (and my coach wasn't looking) :halo:

[katiepeach]

i dont really do dance... only dance tests, but my friend who dances, but also does freeskate only has one pair of skates, (non-dance freeskate skates), but she has a special way she ties them for dance... she doesnt tie the top hook so she still gets a good amount of bend without having to have two pairs of skates...

[Joan]

I have the Physics on Ice video by Charlie Butler and he mentions the same position for the back arm. I was wondering why this was??? He never explained why.

No one at my rink does or teaches it that way :?:

does anyone know or is it just that way because that's the way it is???

He said somewhere in one of his videos that raising the arm almost imperceptibly during the "explosion" part of the back cross over helps make the movement look smooth and effortless, rather than bouncy. As for having the back arm slightly outside the circle, maybe this helps the contra-check that Butler stresses in his videos? I think that rather than thinking of the arm being slightly outside the circle, it is really the rib cage that is displaced slightly outside the circle, and hence the arm is also displaced.

[crayonskater]

Thanks for the replies. I'm about a year from replacing my boots anyway, and I suspected that 'dance blades' might be sort of gimmicky from the perspective of a beginner.

I don't understand how your head could hit the wall first, though; wouldn't you be awfully off-balance?

[flippet]

Just something I heard our top dance coach say in a class the other day. He had the kids skate backwards and asked each of them which part of the body should touch the barrier first as they skate back towards it. They all got it wrong with suggestions of back, shoulders etc. Luckily nobody said butt! Anyway he announced that if they were skating backwards with correct posture then the head which should be leading, would get there first. Worth thinking about!

Nicki

But they weren't doing crossovers, right? I'm guessing back swizzles or glides. Even so, I think it's taking the concept a bit far.

[phoenix]

Thanks for the replies. I'm about a year from replacing my boots anyway, and I suspected that 'dance blades' might be sort of gimmicky from the perspective of a beginner.

I don't understand how your head could hit the wall first, though; wouldn't you be awfully off-balance?

re. the head leading going backward thing: this is something dancers are taught & it's a more advanced position for backward stroking, progressives, chasses, swing rolls, ets. I wouldn't expect a skater below pre-silvers to even begin to try it. It's very difficult & can only be done with very good knee bend & tucking the feet/ankles back underneath you, & very strong abs! If you watch a very good/high dancer soloing a dance her back will actually be on a slight lean backward. There's a very fine balance point that must be found to do it & be solid (I've gone over backwards many times!). I'd say for back crossovers your back should be straight (verical) w/ no forward lean at all (ideal world of course!).

To answer the original question, I switched to dance blades when I was on my silvers; most people I know switch around pre-silver/silver level. I did notice a big improvement in my turns.

[crayonskater]

Thanks! I think I'm going to talk to my coach tomorrow and broach the idea of learning a beginning dance.

How does testing in dance work?

[Anita18]

I'd say for back crossovers your back should be straight (verical) w/ no forward lean at all (ideal world of course!).
I think that it does depend on what you're doing. Most freestylers I've seen lean forward at least a little bit. Here are some pics of Michelle Kwan that shows some forward lean of her torso. (I figure if there's any freestyler I should look up to for basics, it's Michelle, LOL.) Of course she isn't slouching, so she's bending from the hip.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6291/backcrossovers01worldsqr7uw.th.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=backcrossovers01worldsqr7uw.jpg)

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7852/effortlesscrossovers03sp5sm.th.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=effortlesscrossovers03sp5sm.jpg)

[coskater64]

Nose, knees, toes all aligned is what I'm told.
You don't need dance blades if you are a beginner, not really. One pair of skates is fine while you are picking up skills.:lol:

[Perry]

I'm on my international dances (testing, not competing), and I've gone the whole way in freestyle blades -- I've been in GoldSeals since I was on silver/pre-gold, and those are about as freestyle-y as blades can get. I've never even tried dance blades (I actually thought about putting them on my old boots but they were too broken in even for dance!) and I've always been fine, even on twizzles. In fact, my coach, who competed dance internationally, never had dance blades. So really, they probably help, but you certainly don't need them. And if you're doing freestyle, too, you'll be perfectly fine with freestyle blades. And you definitely don't need them at a low level.

And as for stroking, they're are two different perfectly accetable styles (though they're more clear on forward crossovers/progressives). You can either lean in to the edges so that you're whole body is on one plane at an angle to the ice (I think this is the Russian way, but I could be getting it backwards) or you can bend at the hip so your body makes a V-like shape and your axis would be more perpendicular to the ice.