Lutz Help Needed!

[NickiT]

I've been doing a lutz fairly consistently now for some time. I set up fine, enter on the correct edge, get good rotation and have a good running edge out of it, but..... I have this problem with my picking toe slipping on the ice so that instead of there just being a pick mark on the ice, I have a pick mark with a line next to it where the toe slips. My coach says I'm slightly dropping in my ankle as I pick so she's having me work at turning the toe out to the side more as I go in to pick, but I'm still slipping. I know it's difficult without actually seeing it, but if anyone has any suggestions whatsoever I'd be really grateful. I'm too much of a perfectionist to carry on letting myself get away with doing it like this!

Nicki

[doubletoe]

Have you tried bending your skating leg deeper and pulling your upper body back more as you reach back and pick? That should help you get more weight on the picking toe, which might be another reason it's slipping.

[NickiT]

Have you tried bending your skating leg deeper and pulling your upper body back more as you reach back and pick? That should help you get more weight on the picking toe, which might be another reason it's slipping.

Hmmm...you may have a point there. That's what my old coach said. My new coach has never mentioned it but I'll give that a try. I don't think I pull back enough onto the toe. I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks.

Nicki

[mikawendy]

And if it's the case that you're not committing enough weight to the picking foot as you pick.... how's your posture as you pick? In another thread (I think it was about flips), a few people mentioned that it's important to not lean way forward away from the picking foot (because if you do, you're leaning away from the direction that you're traveling in as you pick in and do the jump).

[NickiT]

And if it's the case that you're not committing enough weight to the picking foot as you pick.... how's your posture as you pick? In another thread (I think it was about flips), a few people mentioned that it's important to not lean way forward away from the picking foot (because if you do, you're leaning away from the direction that you're traveling in as you pick in and do the jump).

I do work at not leaning forward. I find generally if I do I can't land the jump anyway. Maybe worth really thinking about standing straight as I pick. Because of my iffy ankle I think pschologically I may hold back. I'm sure it's to do with not getting enough weight over the toe. Thanks for your input.

Nicki

[singerskates]

I need help with my lutz too. I need help to keep the little kid skaters (ages 4 to 8) out of my path when getting read to do my lutz. So far, I was able to do 1 out of three attempts since getting coached last week. The last two had two different kids cheating death just because my coach yelled "Stop child behind." This is after I already looked to see that no little kids would be in my path. But they are so short when I look, I can't always see them. I'll have to practice my lutzes I guess during ticket ice with the kids are in school.

[NickiT]

I need help with my lutz too. I need help to keep the little kid skaters (ages 4 to 8) out of my path when getting read to do my lutz. So far, I was able to do 1 out of three attempts since getting coached last week. The last two had two different kids cheating death just because my coach yelled "Stop child behind." This is after I already looked to see that no little kids would be in my path. But they are so short when I look, I can't always see them. I'll have to practice my lutzes I guess during ticket ice with the kids are in school.

Lutzes are the hardest jump to practice purely for the reason you described. I never get to do them if the patch is busy or if I'm skating on a public session. I have to have a huge space around me and if I'm going into one and see someone vaguely near, I two-foot it. I wish I could just go for it, but when someone is near that bit of ice, I just can't commit. Thankfully now I'm skating on near empty patches I'm not having this problem, but I know how frustrating it is. The hardest jump, and the one I need to practice the most, yet the one I have to leave sometimes due to numbers on the ice.

Nicki

[Bothcoasts]

I have this problem with my picking toe slipping on the ice so that instead of there just being a pick mark on the ice, I have a pick mark with a line next to it where the toe slips.

Nicki

Perhaps your foot needs to hit the ice at a steeper angle? It sounds like you're hitting the ice with the pick closest to your blade, when you should be using the picks higher up on the toe. Bend your knee more, and focus on bringing the skate into the ice at an angle that's more perpendicular to what you've been doing by putting more weight on the top of your skate. Try visualizing jumping off of the top toepick--the one furthest from the blade.

[doubletoe]

Rather than focusing on "not leaning forward" I would actually focus on "pulling back" with your shoulders, head and entire upper body, arching your lower back for strength as you do so. Simply trying to keep your upper body straight or not leaning forward is not enough with this jump.

Also, point your picking toe really hard and lock out the knee of your picking leg as you get ready to pick. Imagine someone is about to come up from behind you and hit the back of your leg behind your knee. If that would make you bend your picking leg, you aren't locking out your knee and pointing hard enough. Also, point your picking toe down at the ice but keep it a few inches above the ice as you reach way back to pick and pull back. Do not lift the picking foot up right before picking, as that will pitch you forward and/or make you bend your picking knee.

[NickiT]

OK, so I've had another month of really concentrating on not slipping on my lutz and my coach is scratching her head! She can't see that I'm doing anything wrong, even when she stands right behind me as I go for the jump. So today she took a look at my blades and thought that I could do with a blade with a bigger toe pick. I'm currently on MK Pros but they are 6 years old and she pointed out that from all the sharpenings, the rocker is going, and so is the first toe-pick. She doesn't feel that I have enough grip and recommended I switch to John Watts Olympics. However I've looked these up and feel that they are a little advanced for me. I only have my singles up to lutz right now so I don't want to commit to a top blade that's designed for doubles and triples. I'm really not sure what to do now. I'm going to take my boots to the skate-fitter next week anyway as I'm aware that they are breaking down and I want him to check them out and see how much more life there is left in them. If I need new boots soon, I'm going to have to make a decision about which blade to go with.

Nicki

[Mrs Redboots]

She doesn't feel that I have enough grip and recommended I switch to John Watts Olympics. However I've looked these up and feel that they are a little advanced for me. I only have my singles up to lutz right now so I don't want to commit to a top blade that's designed for doubles and triples. I'm really not sure what to do now. I'm going to take my boots to the skate-fitter next week anyway as I'm aware that they are breaking down and I want him to check them out and see how much more life there is left in them. If I need new boots soon, I'm going to have to make a decision about which blade to go with. I should go with what your coach recommends - I have John Watts Dance, and love them! Wish I were going to see you soon - I'd ask you to pick up some new laces for me when you go to the fitter! Must remember to ring him and get him to post me some.

[NickiT]

I should go with what your coach recommends - I have John Watts Dance, and love them! Wish I were going to see you soon - I'd ask you to pick up some new laces for me when you go to the fitter! Must remember to ring him and get him to post me some.

Thanks for that Annabel. I'm just worried about having "too much" blade! I can imagine "the fitter!" wouldn't recommend what my coach has as he seems keen to keep most adults on a Coronation Ace. He was a little surprised that I'm in MK Pro's (recommended by previous coach) although I was always under the impression that MK Pro's and Coronation Aces are pretty similar!

Nicki

[b viswanathan]

Nicki,

I thought Doubletoe's advice was excellent. It helped me, too, so thanks DT!

I have much the same problem as you, and I don't think in my case it's the boot/blade (unfortunately!). I think my foot is inclined to be a little wobbly, so I have to think extra hard about keeping it solid and secure. Perfectly straight alignment into picking really, really helps.

A new thing I've been trying that has been working for me is to squeeze my core muscles (in the abs area) just as I am going into the jump. Just holding very firm in that region - as I try to do when I spin, too - seems to keep my body position more erect. I don't know if it'll do anything for you, but maybe you can try it and see what you think.

The other thing my coach keeps telling me is to pull straight back and to think about rotating only in the air. Same as the flip (which is a much more natural and comfortable jump for me) - but unlike with the flip, I have to think about it consciously with the lutz. I assume you're already doing this, but hey, it's possible you're rotating just a shade on the ice and that's pulling your toepick around just enough to make it twist or wobble.

Please give an update on your progress - I need to hear about good lutz experiences, as mine are so very up and down!

good luck,

bv

[NickiT]

Nicki,

I thought Doubletoe's advice was excellent. It helped me, too, so thanks DT!

I have much the same problem as you, and I don't think in my case it's the boot/blade (unfortunately!). I think my foot is inclined to be a little wobbly, so I have to think extra hard about keeping it solid and secure. Perfectly straight alignment into picking really, really helps.

A new thing I've been trying that has been working for me is to squeeze my core muscles (in the abs area) just as I am going into the jump. Just holding very firm in that region - as I try to do when I spin, too - seems to keep my body position more erect. I don't know if it'll do anything for you, but maybe you can try it and see what you think.

The other thing my coach keeps telling me is to pull straight back and to think about rotating only in the air. Same as the flip (which is a much more natural and comfortable jump for me) - but unlike with the flip, I have to think about it consciously with the lutz. I assume you're already doing this, but hey, it's possible you're rotating just a shade on the ice and that's pulling your toepick around just enough to make it twist or wobble.

Please give an update on your progress - I need to hear about good lutz experiences, as mine are so very up and down!

good luck,

bv

Thanks for your advice bv. Like I say we've tried all sorts of different ways. To be honest I don't think my coach sees it as a problem. She says she can't see it from the barrier at all and even when she stood right behind me she said I looked like I was doing everything correctly and that nothing looked out of place. I think she thinks I'm a bit mad because I'm letting myself get so het up over something so minor but I'm a perfectionist and I know that I shouldn't be slipping. I'm not sure what to do about my blades. I'm taking the boots along to the fitter anyway tomorrow because my son needs new boots and I'd like to know how much life there is left in my boots at the moment. It's just that when I do come to buy new boots it may be a good time to invest in new blades too. I'll keep you up to date!

Nicki

[Mrs Redboots]

Thanks for that Annabel. I'm just worried about having "too much" blade! I can imagine "the fitter!" wouldn't recommend what my coach has as he seems keen to keep most adults on a Coronation Ace. He was a little surprised that I'm in MK Pro's (recommended by previous coach) although I was always under the impression that MK Pro's and Coronation Aces are pretty similar!Well, he sold me John Watts Dance very happily - which surprised me, actually, as I thought he'd recommend that I stayed in Coronation Dance, but the John Watts were his idea. I think I'm glad I did get them, although they are a bit less forgiving than Coronation would be, and there are times I don't have my weight in quite the right place and then skid!