Turning backwards???

[TwirlGirlTiff]

Wednesday i took my first figure skating private lesson, and i had lots of fun, i even learned how to do a spin. My coach wanted me to learn how to turn backward while skating, It was very hard for me no matter how slow i went ever time i attempted a turn my skates scratched on the ice and cause me to almost fall over xD.Can anyone give me advice regaurding how i can turn while skating?
thanks in advance
~Tiffany~`

[EastonSkater]

ahh yeah..... this is very naturally an unsettling thing for most people (or even anybody) that has never turned from forward to backward before.

I think that getting confident with skating backwards helps a lot to begin with. That means, like use a wall, and practise backward swizzles and things like that, until you get good at it. Because obviously, once you do a turn to go backwards, you're naturally going to want to be comfortable with going backwards.

But if you're ok at doing backwards skating already, then a good tip for transition from forward to backwards is ...wear elbow pads, knee pads, wrist guards, and helmet for a start...so that if you fall over, it's not even going to hurt much, or not even hurt at all.....and focus on getting most of your weight and balance over one of your skates only. Keep most or all of your weight over 1 skate and stay well balanced. Maintaining good balance and weight over your skate is important actually. You can have the other skate still on the ice, but with not too much weight on that other skate.

Then while you're still travelling forwards (at some slowish speed) turn your chest so that if faces roughly 90 degrees to the direction that you're travelling (and your chest will then end up facing the same side as your gliding leg...so if your glide leg is the left leg, then your chest will face to the left of the direction you travel), and try to maintain this position while maintaining your balance....weight still mainly on the gliding skate, and only a little bit of weight on the other skate. So maintain this position....and whenever you're ready you must then bend the knee of your gliding leg....and bend it down because it's going to act like a spring. You then quickly unbend that knee so that you and your body springs up a little bit (not necessarily jumping off the ice or anything...but the upward motion is needed for you to reduce that downward force on your gliding foot so that you can quickly flip the direction of your skate from the forwards to reverse direction. And as you spring up, the point is to get some upwards force to help get the heel part of your gliding skate off the ice a little bit, so that the pivot point is actually somewhere around the front (toe) part of your gliding skate. So it's not like as if the whole blade is touching the ice and it magically spins around to do a 180 degrees. It's actually a case of doing a little hop to lift the rear of the blade off away the ice surface so that the front part of the blade around the toe area can be flipped (ie can be swiveled around on the ice). It's like touching the tip of your straight finger on a surface of a table. You can rotate the tip of your finger around on the surface without feeling too much resistance. But if your whole finger is lying flat and pressed up hard against the table, then you feel lots of resistance. So the feeling of springing yourself upwards while on your gliding skate is like standing on the ground with most of your weight on one of your feet....and then you sink down by bending your knee, and then you spring up by unbending that knee .... and as you reach maximum height in your spring-up, raise your heel so that it comes off the ground while leaving the front part of your feet (toes etc) on the ground. That's roughly how it feels.

The above is just one way of going from front to back. There's a few different ways of transitioning from front to back, but the above method is one way. The important thing is to be really well balanced and feeling comfortable with being balanced on 1 skate. To cheat a bit, your other skate can actually be used to give you an extra bit of lift when you're springing upwards in preparation for the transition. That is, just immediately before you spring upwards, you can use the ball of your foot on your other skate to quickly push down onto the ice to give you more upwards lift when you spring up in order to flip the gliding foot from the forwards to backwards position. I think your free skate will be able to sort it self out once you're in the backwards position....as you'll naturally put that free skate down onto the ice in order to steady yourself and maintain balance.

But the biggest cheats way to go from forwards to backwards....and it's the easiest way you can get (and probably frowned upon by skating coaches) is the snowplough style. You know how to do a snowplough stop right? Well, if you go fast enough in a straight line, and if you really master the snowplough really well, you can easily do a few little changes to your body and skate positioning during your snowplough so that you can actually make yourself slide from forwards to backwards direction. That is, the snowplough is done when most of the weight is on the leading part of your skate, which allows it to slide along the surface. Now, if you just orient your skates in various ways, and position your body appropriately, you'll eventually be able to do the hockey stop ...because the hockey stop is an exaggerated form of the snow plough. And once you now how to do the snowplough or hockey stop slides very well.....there's nothing that will stop you from sliding your way from a forwards to a backwards direction. Figure coaches will probably not like this at all because it's not a controlled transition....but it's easy to do...although maybe a bad habit to pick up.

Anyhow, sooner or later, you'll be doing forwards to backwards transitions and skating backwards no problem at all because your skating instructor will make sure of that.

[dbny]

You haven't said what kind of turn from F to B your coach is teaching you. The first one should be on two feet, standing still at first, then moving. You need to keep your feet close together, touching if possible, throughout the turn. Rotate your upper body so that you feel a twist in your waist, and one arm is in front and the other in back. Keep your arms at waist height. Keep your eyes glued on your leading hand. If you are moving, get a solid two foot glide with feet close together before rotating your upper body. Now gently bend your knees, and as you come up, allow your hips to "untwist", making the turn so that your knees turn towards the front of your body, not your back. You should still be looking at your leading hand, still be looking where you are going. If you are scraping a lot, stop and do a little exercise first. Stand with your feet together and just point your toes to one side a little, then to the other a little. Find the spot on your blades where you can do this smoothly without scraping. That's the spot you should be on when you turn.

[Mercedeslove]

I had some trouble with this myself, thing is I can't rember how I learned it....now it's just second nature to me. I say talk to your coach and

practice, practice, practice, practice.

My issues is backwards crossovers. They're so ugly and guh.

Skating backwards is obviously a task. I wish you the best of luck, and keep us updated.

But we know you can do it.

[Mrs Redboots]

Even after all these years I still have trouble turning at speed when skating alone. I'm fine with a partner - I think it's not just fear, it's also having another body to orient myself against. Fear too, of course. For instance, this morning we did a fast and fairly good British waltz together - but solo, I still grind almost to a halt before doing the 3-turns. Grrrrrr....

[Skate@Delaware]

Even after all these years I still have trouble turning at speed when skating alone. I'm fine with a partner - I think it's not just fear, it's also having another body to orient myself against. Fear too, of course. For instance, this morning we did a fast and fairly good British waltz together - but solo, I still grind almost to a halt before doing the 3-turns. Grrrrrr....
I see I'm not the only one the 3-turn issues! We have started working on those....not only was I taught wrong, with no check, and my blades were mis-aligned causing problems in getting them.

We started an exercise (I'm to do this every practice) on the circle: going CCW, stroke on the left, then do a RFI 3-turn and hold the check and end position until eventually (after many years of practice at my rate) you can hold it for 1/3 of the circle). Reverse for CW direction (stroke on right, LFI, check...). Eventually, we will be adding speed!!!

As far as turning from front-to-back; I just swish my arms and hips, sort of like doing "the twist." You don't want to go too fast, but going too slow won't allow it to work. Bend you knees and keep your back up (don't bend over). It helps if you do some slaloms first.

[EastonSkater]

When I first learned forward to backward transitions, I had pads on and everything. Taking the fear factor out of the equation has huge benefits. I didn't care at all what people thought. It turned out to be a great idea. Instructors can teach as much as they want about 'how to fall properly'...but when you're a beginner, things don't always turn out in the way you expected in terms of falling properly. That's how I beat injury when I was a beginner. Same thing when I was practising power pulls and things. I thought 'who cares if I fall?...It's not even going to hurt'. And yep...it never did hurt ...not even a bit.

[slusher]

There's progressions for learning everything, we teach them to the little kids in learn to skate, but somehow we forget to break it down into the tiny pieces for adults. Sometimes adults need it even tinier than the kids because we're not willing to try and fall a hundred times first.

The first step for turning front to back on two feet in a quick swivel turn is to find that turny spot on your blades. While standing on the spot and feet together, swish back and forth like a washing machine. Gradually increase the arc until you're turning 1/4 to 1/2 turn. That's the feel of the turn. Part 2 is a down up (it's easier to turn with less blade on the ice) and part 3 is pre-rotating the torso - to my little kids, "Hey everybody, today we're Barbies and we can turn our waists all the way 'round"! Once you get all this, and dbny and Eastonskater explained it well, then you try it with one stroke into it, a little speed and see if the turn works, and then add speed, knee bend and off you go.

Personally I was born knowing how to do mohawks and use them all the time going front to back and find these two footed turns annoying.

[dbny]

Personally I was born knowing how to do mohawks and use them all the time going front to back and find these two footed turns annoying.

You're very lucky, however the two footed turns are not preparation for Mohawks. They are preparation for three turns, which are actually taught before F Mohawks on ice, but after on roller skates.

[slusher]

You're very lucky, however the two footed turns are not preparation for Mohawks.

Oh I know that. I didn't actually have to do two foot turns until I hit a stroking class one day and the sharp eyed instructor noticed I was faking it. :roll: The drill was lemon/turn/lemon lemon/turn, the faster the better, the point of the drill was agility and keeping *both* feet under you. 3 turns were "cheating" Alas, I was called out in front of everyone and was totally inept at learning the two footer, it was funny.

I can't understand why everyone can't do mohawks on the first try
;)


Or in other words, there's more than one way to turn.

[mikawendy]

Or in other words, there's more than one way to turn.

I'm a big fan of the mohawk-attempted-freakout-Riverdancy-thingy--sometimes I'll be going really fast and coach says to do a mohawk and then I freak out while attempting the turn. :D

[dbny]

I can't understand why everyone can't do mohawks on the first try
;)


Two words: No Turnout!

Those with good turnout find Mohawks simple because they never risk putting a blade down on the ice perpendicular to the direction of travel. Without good turnout, one has to be very quick with swiveling the hips around and getting that F foot off the ice.

I'm a big fan of the mohawk-attempted-freakout-Riverdancy-thingy--sometimes I'll be going really fast and coach says to do a mohawk and then I freak out while attempting the turn.

:lol: My DH does the same thing (not just with Mohawks) and manages to stay on his feet with it most of the time, but everyone hears it and he gets the whole place as an audience. I call it a windup toy act.

[Mrs Redboots]

Oh I know that. I didn't actually have to do two foot turns until I hit a stroking class one day and the sharp eyed instructor noticed I was faking it. :roll: The drill was lemon/turn/lemon lemon/turn, the faster the better, the point of the drill was agility and keeping *both* feet under you. 3 turns were "cheating" Alas, I was called out in front of everyone and was totally inept at learning the two footer, it was funny. In this country, one of the highest-level Field moves is 2-footed rockers - you do a slalom, rocker, slalom, rocker all the way round.... you have to have your feet tightly together, and the rockers have to be true rockers, not cheated. I think the first two are one way and the 2nd two another way. Great fun, although I can't actually do them - because they're on two feet, I have fun trying!

I, too, am one of the "grind to a halt before turning" skaters - although not when I'm partnered, which is weird! I'm even planning an inside 3-turn on my less good foot at the end of our step sequence in our free dance - am I crazy, or what?

[VegasGirl]

Mrs Redboots,

OT but I just browsed a bit through your webpage and looked at your figure skating photos. The two of your "Waltzing Cat" routine especially caught my eye since my daughter and I did a cat spotlight routine in 2004. What song did you two skate to?
We used "Straycat Strut" from the Straycats and really played on the music with props and moves... was a lot of fun and one of my favorite routines so far. :)

[VegasGirl]

Back on topic,

I use mohawks to transition from front to back and though it took me a little while to feel comfortable with it I now have to problems at all, no matter what speed, to transition smoothly.
I've used a three-turn in my last freestyle 1 routine at one point when coming out of a waltz jump to get back into backward cross-overs and that worked nicely as well though I still prefer the mohawk.

[Mrs Redboots]

Mrs Redboots,

OT but I just browsed a bit through your webpage and looked at your figure skating photos. The two of your "Waltzing Cat" routine especially caught my eye since my daughter and I did a cat spotlight routine in 2004. What song did you two skate to?
We used "Straycat Strut" from the Straycats and really played on the music with props and moves... was a lot of fun and one of my favorite routines so far. :)It was Leroy Anderson's Waltzing Cat from a CD of his music which I'd bought years ago because Husband wanted to try to do an Interpretive to The Syncopated Clock. That never happened, but we both like the CD (http://tinyurl.com/bfuc7) and often said we'd like to try playing with that if we ever had time to do an Interpretive Pairs routine....