Pre-Bronze!

[sunshinepointe]

I signed up for private lessons with my current group coach - anyone who can convince me that yes, I AM capable of performing a forward scratch into a back scratch (then sticking around to watch as I proceed to actually DO one, cheering me on) might just be the coach for me. Not that there was anything wrong with my old coach - on the contrary when my old rink reopens and I'm able to skate there again I'd love to continue my lessons with him - but for the time being Beth will suffice.

I told Beth that I wanted to start testing USFSA and she was extremely enthusiastic about getting me started immediately. I have my first lesson with her tomorrow and I'm pretty excited and nervous all at the same time - I know I can do the Pre-Bronze moves, but this is going to be about refining and making things start to look good - or at least I hope! I originally was thinking about testing on the standard track but then I figured what's the point? If I get to the point where I pass Adult Gold Freestyle and I want to go to Intermediate on the Standard track then I'll worry about it then. It's a pretty long ways away anyway, right? :twisted:

[Kevin Callahan]

I told Beth that I wanted to start testing USFSA and she was extremely enthusiastic about getting me started immediately. I have my first lesson with her tomorrow and I'm pretty excited and nervous all at the same time - I know I can do the Pre-Bronze moves, but this is going to be about refining and making things start to look good - or at least I hope! I originally was thinking about testing on the standard track but then I figured what's the point? If I get to the point where I pass Adult Gold Freestyle and I want to go to Intermediate on the Standard track then I'll worry about it then. It's a pretty long ways away anyway, right? :twisted:

This is pretty much where I am with Tim. Almost exactly. I'm apparently Delta/Pre-Bronze, whatever the heck that means (I actually still don't really know how one gets a level label, maybe someone can explain it to me). Tim's setting up the testing for the pre-prelims and helping me get through the USFSA and my local club's membership paperwork.

[skaternum]

This is pretty much where I am with Tim. Almost exactly. I'm apparently Delta/Pre-Bronze, whatever the heck that means (I actually still don't really know how one gets a level label, maybe someone can explain it to me). Tim's setting up the testing for the pre-prelims and helping me get through the USFSA and my local club's membership paperwork.Kevin, the only way to get the level label "pre-bronze" is to pass the pre-bronze test. Maybe he's saying your skills are at that level. But until you take and pass the test, you aren't labeled "pre-bronze." Just curious, why are you taking pre-preliminary instead of pre-bronze. You're at least 21, right? (Or am I remembering wrong?)

[phoenix]

Just putting in my word in support of adult skaters taking standard track moves. Now that there are crossover points, if you're capable of it (& many are! Especially you younger adults), I highly recommend it. It's more difficult, but more thorough, in training all your edges, turns, spirals, etc.

Even if you go through adult gold & then switch to standard track at Intermediate, there are still things you've missed along the way. Personally I wish they'd do moves the way they do dance--same elements, but lower passing standard.

My 2 cents. If your coach thinks you can do it--go for it!! It will only make you a better skater in the end.

[Kevin Callahan]

Kevin, the only way to get the level label "pre-bronze" is to pass the pre-bronze test. Maybe he's saying your skills are at that level. But until you take and pass the test, you aren't labeled "pre-bronze." Just curious, why are you taking pre-preliminary instead of pre-bronze. You're at least 21, right? (Or am I remembering wrong?)

I dunno. I'm just repeating, and I admit I may be repeating incorrectly. I'm 22, yes, but I went back and checked the email, and he definitely said pre-preliminary. I think at this point I've simply learned not to question Tim. I'm paying him to make judgement calls, so I'll let him make judgement calls.

[Clarice]

Just putting in my word in support of adult skaters taking standard track moves. Now that there are crossover points, if you're capable of it (& many are! Especially you younger adults), I highly recommend it. It's more difficult, but more thorough, in training all your edges, turns, spirals, etc.

Even if you go through adult gold & then switch to standard track at Intermediate, there are still things you've missed along the way. Personally I wish they'd do moves the way they do dance--same elements, but lower passing standard.

My 2 cents. If your coach thinks you can do it--go for it!! It will only make you a better skater in the end.

I agree with phoenix. I tested standard track Moves before there were adult Moves, and got through Pre-Juv. I've failed Juv about 4 times, I think! I've actually never taken an Adult Moves test, because I was already tested to Silver when they were implemented. I'm working on Gold Moves now, but I swear after I pass it I want to go back and take another shot at that blasted Juv test just to say I can do it! It bugs me that because of the way the adult tests pick and choose the moves, there will be patterns I won't ever officially pass unless I go back for that test.

[jenlyon60]

To be considered a "Pre-Bronze" or "Pre-Preliminary" skater you must take and pass the USFS Pre-Bronze (for adults 21 and over) or USFS Pre-Preliminary Moves in the Field and Freestyle tests.

Before you can take either the Adult Pre-Bronze or Pre-Preliminary freestyle test, you must take and pass the corresponding Moves in the Field (MIF) test.

Be aware that while both tests are pass/retry, the USFS passing standards for the skills in either of these tests is generally considered to be of a higher level than what is expected in most ISI programs.

Prior to registering to take any USFS test, you must be a member of the USFS. You can join by either joining a USFS-affiliated skating club (there may be one based at your rink or at another facility in or near the city in which you skate), or join as an individual member.

If you choose to join as an individual member, you will still have to test at a test session sponsored by a USFS club... and most clubs charge an extra ice fee for non-members (including individual members).

[Kevin Callahan]

To be considered a "Pre-Bronze" or "Pre-Preliminary" skater you must take and pass the USFS Pre-Bronze (for adults 21 and over) or USFS Pre-Preliminary Moves in the Field and Freestyle tests.

Then I can only assume Tim means he feels I'm at that level and I could pass, as another poster suggested.

Before you can take either the Adult Pre-Bronze or Pre-Preliminary freestyle test, you must take and pass the corresponding Moves in the Field (MIF) test.

That, I am aware of.


Be aware that while both tests are pass/retry, the USFS passing standards for the skills in either of these tests is generally considered to be of a higher level than what is expected in most ISI programs.

Aware of this as well.

Prior to registering to take any USFS test, you must be a member of the USFS. You can join by either joining a USFS-affiliated skating club (there may be one based at your rink or at another facility in or near the city in which you skate), or join as an individual member.

If you choose to join as an individual member, you will still have to test at a test session sponsored by a USFS club... and most clubs charge an extra ice fee for non-members (including individual members).

Tim and I are taking care of this. My club (or what will be my club when my paperwork is done and accepted) is a USFSA club.

[jenlyon60]

Good. There's a lot of folks who don't educate themselves as to things like this, and rely solely on what they gleam from online fora.

Many club test applications require the coach to sign the form, implying the coach believes the skater is ready to test. Of course, it seems that every test session or so, there is at least one skater out there who is totally unprepared for what they are testing, and we wonder what the coach was thinking when they signed the form.

--jsl

[Kevin Callahan]

I read Kristi Yamaguchi's "Skating for Dummies" this summer, and I've also mulled over the USFSA and SFSC (my club) websites.

[Joan]

I dunno. I'm just repeating, and I admit I may be repeating incorrectly. I'm 22, yes, but I went back and checked the email, and he definitely said pre-preliminary. I think at this point I've simply learned not to question Tim. I'm paying him to make judgement calls, so I'll let him make judgement calls.

I would recommend doing both pre-preliminary and adult pre-bronze, if the test fees are not an issue for you. The freeskate components (which can only be done if you've passed the MIF parts) are nearly the same in pre-prelim and adult pre-bronze. By testing in the adult series and getting to the bronze level or higher, you can start to compete at adult nationals (assuming you want to do this) sooner than if you try to go the standard route.

[Kevin Callahan]

I just called Tim for clarification. From what I understand I will be doing both, and he certainly feels that I can compete at Adult Nationals next year, and actually thought he might be able to prep me for it this year, but the deadline is today (I balked, my goal was to get to Adult Nationals in FIVE YEARS, and I considered that reasonable). I "knew" I was progressing fast, but I guess I didn't quite realize how fast. This is only month eight of my official "I'm going to be a figure skater" training. This is definitely my Lift (or whatever it is this time) of the week. Talk about an ego boost.

[skaternum]

I just called Tim for clarification. From what I understand I will be doing bothGood, because you can't compete in an adult event unless you've passed the appropriate adult test. (Unless, of course, it's a no-test adult event, for which you would've been inelegible after passing pre-preliminary).


my goal was to get to Adult Nationals in FIVE YEARS, and I considered that reasonableI thought your goal was specifically to compete in the Championship Gold event. This sounds like your goal is just to get there at all. Do you mean compete in the championship event next year in Chicago? That would be awesome!

Also, with regards to your comment about paying him to make judgement calls and not questioning him. It bothers me a bit. I truly hope you're not going to be one of those skaters who just does whatever the coach says without questioning it. Good coaches keep up with what's going on in the adult skating world, but one of the best things about being an adult skater is possessing the age and wisdom to make your own decisions. We may not come into this sport knowing everything there is to know about it, but we certainly possess the mental capacity and assertiveness to find out and make our own good decisions. I'll get the rulebook; I'll read the governing body's reference material; I'll talk to coaches and skaters; I'll attend test sessions to see what goes on. In short, I want to take responsibility for my own skating. Maybe you don't -- not everyone is as independent-minded as me. But I'd hate to see you fall into the ol' "do whatever the coach says" mindset. To me, that's what separates the kids from the adults.

[sunshinepointe]

Well as far as I am concerned I guess I'll speak with my coach at my lesson today to see if I should just go for the Standard track - I'm going to be 25 next month so I'm not a spring chicken, but I've got a couple of years to go before I'll actually consider myself an "adult".

My new coach told me in group the other day that I have the energy and enthusiasm of a 10 year old...will that get me extra points on my tests? :twisted:

[Skate@Delaware]

Good. There's a lot of folks who don't educate themselves as to things like this, and rely solely on what they gleam from online fora.

Many club test applications require the coach to sign the form, implying the coach believes the skater is ready to test. Of course, it seems that every test session or so, there is at least one skater out there who is totally unprepared for what they are testing, and we wonder what the coach was thinking when they signed the form.

--jsl
Before I tested, my coach wanted me to actually attend a test session and see what they did (how a session was run, etc). I did as she suggested and was very surprised!! It was a real eye-opener for sure and actually motivated me to prepare even more (I have some weak elements that weren't ready). At least I know what to expect.

[jenlyon60]

Definitely a good idea.

There is a big difference in expectations between USFS and ISI. And there is a big difference in USFS standard track between test expectations (freestyle) and competition expectations.

[Kevin Callahan]

I thought your goal was specifically to compete in the Championship Gold event. This sounds like your goal is just to get there at all. Do you mean compete in the championship event next year in Chicago? That would be awesome!

Right, right. You are correct. Tim knows that too. You can see why I am surprised.

Also, with regards to your comment about paying him to make judgement calls and not questioning him. It bothers me a bit. I truly hope you're not going to be one of those skaters who just does whatever the coach says without questioning it. Good coaches keep up with what's going on in the adult skating world, but one of the best things about being an adult skater is possessing the age and wisdom to make your own decisions. We may not come into this sport knowing everything there is to know about it, but we certainly possess the mental capacity and assertiveness to find out and make our own good decisions. I'll get the rulebook; I'll read the governing body's reference material; I'll talk to coaches and skaters; I'll attend test sessions to see what goes on. In short, I want to take responsibility for my own skating. Maybe you don't -- not everyone is as independent-minded as me. But I'd hate to see you fall into the ol' "do whatever the coach says" mindset. To me, that's what separates the kids from the adults.

I think I need to clarify. I always ask for clarification (like with this thread, as soon as I was aware I was confused, I gave him a call). I always ask to be given explanations. One of the reasons I had Tim recommended to me by the skating director of my home rink is because I wanted someone to understand that I am an adult, that I am paying for this sport myself, and that I want to be involved in the decision making process. That this is an investment, and Tim needs to serve not just as a mentor and coach, but also as a type of "broker" making sure my investment pays off.

HOWEVER, I am paying him to make sure that investment does pay off. He is the expert not me. I realize I won't always understand his reasoning for the decisions he makes, no matter how many times I ask for an explanation. A lot of that will simply have to come from spending time in the figure skating world. Experience I don't yet have. There's a great deal of trust that has to be given because battles need to be chosen wisely, and I am not in a position to recognize small battles from big battles. If my investment doesn't pay off, or if I find through my increasing experience that Tim has failed me in some major way, I'll do what I'd do with any investment broker. I'll fire him.

[Mrs Redboots]

Just putting in my word in support of adult skaters taking standard track moves. Now that there are crossover points, if you're capable of it (& many are! Especially you younger adults), I highly recommend it. It's more difficult, but more thorough, in training all your edges, turns, spirals, etc.
In most countries, that's the only choice you have - you do the standard tests, or not at all. As I understand it, Kevin's coach is British, so he probably holds his adult students to similar standards as the kids at the same level, as all British coaches have to do!

[Kevin Callahan]

In most countries, that's the only choice you have - you do the standard tests, or not at all. As I understand it, Kevin's coach is British, so he probably holds his adult students to similar standards as the kids at the same level, as all British coaches have to do!

This is true. Tim is a British Ice Teachers Association Advanced Senior Rated Coach. He is a Gold Medalist in Freestyle and A British Skating Association, Silver Dance Medalist. Tim is a former British professional championship medalist. Tim has taught for 20 years in freestyle, pairs and ice dancing. Coaching skaters from the beginner level thru national championship levels. He is also an English Ice hockey Association level 2 coach. Tim is a current member of the Stars FSCT, ISI, PSA, BITA, BSA and EIHA (taken from the rink website).

And if I recall correctly, I'm not just one of his adult skaters, I am his only adult skater at present.

[phoenix]

If you don't mind my suggesting, I'd recommend you either attend AN this year if you can, or order the tapes to see what the skaters at your intended level are looking like / what elements they're including. I'm doing that myself (ordering the tapes). That way, as you work this year, you'll have a clear cut vision of what the competition is doing & can plan accordingly--remember there's usually a big discrepancy between test requirements & competition programs.

All that's required for testing gold is an axel & lutz & a combo spin, along with lesser jumps (I say "all" :roll: ), but I don't know what the championship gold men are doing in competition--I'm betting doubles? It'd be good to know.

Also keep in mind that if Tim is encouraging you to shoot for AN '07, but you're not to gold level by then, he hasn't failed you. IMO, that is close to unrealistic for what can be done in a year, & I'm rather surprised he'd toss that out, based on what you're working on right now. Of course, I haven't seen you skate & he has, but I'm just wondering if he's really thinking that level for your first trip.

There's also developing ease, flow, poise, carriage, etc. on the ice, which takes a lot of "mileage" in skates, as we say. You may very well be a natural (I was too), but you still have to pay your dues in time before you start to look really comfortable out there. Which matters in a competition.

Don't mean to put you off, just a word of hesitation to see if Tim really meant what you think he meant....... I have some talented students myself, but I'd never dream of 'promising' them a certain level by a certain time--too many variables. You have yet to see how you skate under pressure, for one.

[sunshinepointe]

So errrrm....getting back to my thread.... ;)


Today was the first lesson with Beth. We spent about 5-10 minutes discussing the pros and cons of testing on the Adult track versus the Standard track, biggest differences being that the Adult track is “faster” and doesn’t cover a lot of elements that the Standard track does. Beth said that she would speak with some judges and other adult skaters to see which would be better for me, but truthfully I’m leaning more towards the Standard track. I’m not looking to compete any time soon, if ever (too scarred from the first competition!) and I don’t want to sell myself short by not covering as many elements as possible. And of course Beth said that if I change my mind I have up until Novice on the Standard track to switch over to Adult if I decide I want to compete. Fair enough, but we’ll make an official decision in a couple of weeks.

Beth figured that we might as well cover all of the elements in the Pre-preliminary test, beginning with basic forward perimeter stroking. I posted specific notes in my journal if anyone wants to read lol - www.philosotree.com

Then we worked on waltz jumps a little bit since we had maybe 5 or 10 minutes left. She was really trying to get me to focus on stepping UP, then turning instead of letting the right hip swing away first throwing me off that edge. So I did a couple and then she stops me dead in my tracks.

Her: I don’t like that crease in your boot, let me see
Me: Um, okay
Her: How long have you had these?
Me: Since June of last year?
Her: Are these the Freestyle?
Me: No, Competitors…is there something wrong with them?
Her, making a face: I love Jacksons but these look broken down to me.
Me: What??!??! I was told that these would last me a couple of years which is why I got them.
Her: Well, you’re a heavy skater - not to say you’re fat because you’re not, but you skate very aggressively and you land hard…you’re just hard on your boots. I’m the same way, I usually need triple reinforcers in my customs.
Me: So umm…these are no good?
Her: Oh no they’re okay for now but considering what you’re working on you’d be much better suited to upgrade to a stronger boot.
Me: Will the blades transfer?
Her: Most likely
Me: Oooookay well…I originally wanted MUCH stronger skates and I was told they weren’t for me and that these would last but…whatever - I’d rather spend the money and not have a broken leg.
Her: I have a ton of skates, including a pair of GAM’s that haven’t even been mounted — we’ll find something for you. I have the GAM’s in my car - take them home and see if they fit and we’ll talk again on Saturday.

That was pretty much the end of that conversation - I’m really hoping the GAM’s work because they’re $400 boots that she’s willing to part with for $150 and then she said she’d sell my skates to a beginning level skater so I’m not out a ton of money. I just hope the blades transfer because if they don’t I’ll be royally peeved. I can always sell those too, but sheesh - what drama. :roll:

I’m very pleased with Beth as a coach - she’s like a little tiny moves-in-the-field-nazi. She explained that her coach was VERY old school, and that she tested figures and such so she has it ingrained in her to look for good edge quality and all of the little things that make a skater look like a skater which is exactly what I need. Like, I can do everything she asked me to do but instead of saying “yeah that looks okay - you could pass with that” she’s REALLY working me to pass with flying colors. I loved working with my old coach because he was fun and he pushed me to do new things all the time, but after seeing the video the other day I decided that it was more important for me to refine what I know rather than plow through elements just to say I can do them. I think someone on one of my skating boards summed it up well by saying “It’s not how many tricks you can do, but how many of those tricks you can do well“.

The bonus is that I have Beth as a group coach on Saturdays too so I get double duty from her. I’m super excited about skating all over again.

[skaternum]

And of course Beth said that if I change my mind I have up until Novice on the Standard track to switch over to Adult if I decide I want to compete.I'm not sure I understand this statement. If you pass any higher than Juvenile FS, you're not allowed to compete in the Adult events. You must compete in the Masters events.

[skaternum]

I think I need to clarify. <snip> If my investment doesn't pay off, or if I find through my increasing experience that Tim has failed me in some major way, I'll do what I'd do with any investment broker. I'll fire him.Okay, that makes me feel better. Taking your earlier statements at face value made me a little 8O .

[skaternum]

And if I recall correctly, I'm not just one of his adult skaters, I am his only adult skater at present.Are you also his first adult skater?

[Debbie S]

We spent about 5-10 minutes discussing the pros and cons of testing on the Adult track versus the Standard track, biggest differences being that the Adult track is “faster” and doesn’t cover a lot of elements that the Standard track does. Well, in the current (as of Sept 1) adult moves structure, the only moves missed in the adult track that are on the standard track are the alt 3's (Prelim), the outside-inside spirals (Prelim), and the back power 3's (Juv). Since I tested Pre-Bronze MIF before the changes, I passed the alt 3's but will miss the waltz 8 (Pre-Prelim).

I thought about testing Pre-Prelim and Prelim MIF (and possibly Pre-Juv MIF) after passing Bronze (whenever that happens), but I realized that I wasn't missing that many moves and since the point of working on MIF is to learn skills that will improve your freestyle skating, I decided that it would be more a more productive use of my skating lesson (and testing) budget to start on Silver MIF rather than repeat moves I've already passed just to learn a couple that I probably won't be any the worse for having not tested. For example, the waltz 8 builds skills for the alt 3's, power 3's, and 5-step - and since I would have already passed those moves, there's not much point, IMO, to go back and learn the "building blocks" to them.

Some people test both tracks, though, and there is also the possibility (now with the rule change) to cross over and take the adult FS tests by passing a standard track MIF test and not just the adult one. Be mindful, though, that you will end up needing to pass moves that are a higher level than the ones on the corresponding adult MIF test. For example, to take Pre-Bronze FS, you will need to pass both Pre-Prelim and Prelim MIF (b/c the crossover figure 8's on Pre-Bronze MIF are on Prelim), but you'll end up needing to master the alt 3's, power 3's, and other moves that are harder than anything on the Pre-Bronze test. To take Bronze FS, you'll need to pass Pre-Juv MIF, which means mastering the forward to back 3-turns and power pulls, which you wouldn't need to pass until Silver.

But since you're young and sound pretty fearless, testing the standard track and then crossing over for FS testing might be OK for you. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[techskater]

I would first of all suspect that Tim wants you at the Bronze level for AN's next year or possibly Silver if you progress very quickly. The Silver and Gold moves can be a killer.

I am a Gold level skater (lady, not man) and can tell you that almost all Gold skaters (men and women) have at least one double (which may or may not be consistent), a nice combination spin with change of position and foot, flying spin, solid footwork, good edgework, speed, and nice MIF (spirals, spread eagles, bauers, hydroblades). Last year at Mids (your section) the winner did 2 double toes (one as the back 1/2 of a sequence or combination, I forget which), a double sal, double flip, single loop, two axels, flying spin, combo spin and some great connecting moves. He went on to win Champ Gold Men at AN's as well. He recently passed his Intermediate MIF and FS and will be competing Championship Masters Men this year at Mids and AN's.

[sunshinepointe]

I'm not sure I understand this statement. If you pass any higher than Juvenile FS, you're not allowed to compete in the Adult events. You must compete in the Masters events.

I think she was saying that if I take the novice that I can't compete adult, but I have up to that point (which is Juvenile, no?) to switch over to Adult. Or maybe I misunderstood.

[Kevin Callahan]

If you don't mind my suggesting, I'd recommend you either attend AN this year if you can.

It's on "home ice" so I'll be there in person. It's like twenty minutes from where I live.

Also keep in mind that if Tim is encouraging you to shoot for AN '07, but you're not to gold level by then, he hasn't failed you. IMO, that is close to unrealistic for what can be done in a year, & I'm rather surprised he'd toss that out, based on what you're working on right now. Of course, I haven't seen you skate & he has, but I'm just wondering if he's really thinking that level for your first trip.

I'm not saying he would have. My goal is to reach gold level in five years. If he thinks I can do it faster, great! If it turns out I need more time, no big deal. I don't look at skating as something with a stopping point as if I'd consider it "over and done" as soon as I win a gold medal or something. I plan to make this a life-long process.

Don't mean to put you off, just a word of hesitation to see if Tim really meant what you think he meant....... I have some talented students myself, but I'd never dream of 'promising' them a certain level by a certain time--too many variables. You have yet to see how you skate under pressure, for one.

He promised nothing of the sort, he said "I think you'll be good enough to do it by then." That doesn't strike me as a promise or guarantee. I have to do my portion too. And skating under pressure is certainly a new experience.

Question: Why does everyone always feel that I'm going to have a negative response to their criticism? I'm not. If I did, why would I be keeping you guys updated? Trust me, I'm far more easy going than you people are giving me credit for!

Are you also his first adult skater?

I don't actually know. I'm going to assume since he has been coaching for two decades the answer to that question is likely a resounding no. Hence why I said "at present."

I would first of all suspect that Tim wants you at the Bronze level for AN's next year or possibly Silver if you progress very quickly. The Silver and Gold moves can be a killer.

You know, I asked just for clarification, but he may have misunderstood my question about competition level. I'll ask again. Now that I think about, I suspect your suspicion is probably correct. I was a little too surprised to follow up again.

[sunshinepointe]

there is also the possibility (now with the rule change) to cross over and take the adult FS tests by passing a standard track MIF test and not just the adult one. Be mindful, though, that you will end up needing to pass moves that are a higher level than the ones on the corresponding adult MIF test. For example, to take Pre-Bronze FS, you will need to pass both Pre-Prelim and Prelim MIF (b/c the crossover figure 8's on Pre-Bronze MIF are on Prelim), but you'll end up needing to master the alt 3's, power 3's, and other moves that are harder than anything on the Pre-Bronze test. To take Bronze FS, you'll need to pass Pre-Juv MIF, which means mastering the forward to back 3-turns and power pulls, which you wouldn't need to pass until Silver.

But since you're young and sound pretty fearless, testing the standard track and then crossing over for FS testing might be OK for you. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hmm....I guess I'm not being too clear, maybe because this is all pretty new to me - but I'm planning on testing the Standard track freestyles as well...

[coskater64]

Getting to gold in a year from Pre-pre/pre-bronze would be a serious feat not to mention a lot of tests literally 8 tests in 12 months and that's if you did just the adult, I've seen people (adult age 45) go from pre-pre to Novice in a year but... and this is a huge but, she was Novice level as a kid w/ doubles through lutz. If you feel confident go for silver next year in Chicago, most of the top skaters at that level are really very smooth and have good power, most have an axel and nice spins. Of course the bronze men are very similar just w/out the axel, you want your first experience to be a good one so be pragmatic, don't rush and pass tests just to do them skating is about perfection of those little things, the ability to emote your music, moves easily across the ice with nice power, flow in and out of elements.

Of course do what you think is right for you, AN's 06 would be good for you to see to get a good idea of what you want to do. I know I didn't come to my first AN's (02') very prepared, I had to skate silver ladies because I had passed my Juv FS as a child but I had never skated in such a large group. I skated 17th of the 18 skaters and it was very hard on my nerves. Mind you, I made it to final round and finished in the top 3 overall but it was much harder than I expected. Best of luck! :D

[cecealias]

I think the only time I'd recommend doing not doing the standard track moves would be if you wanted to compete and didn't want to wait to test up a level before taking the Adult FS test or if you felt that the standard track moves were simply too challenging and you wanted a bit of slack... Well Ok, in my area, i've seen people pass Adults Moves test that I certainly know would not have passed standard track, and they switched because is was less frustrating to continue on the adult track instead. It is a frustrating sport indeed!

[mikawendy]

I think she was saying that if I take the novice that I can't compete adult, but I have up to that point (which is Juvenile, no?) to switch over to Adult. Or maybe I misunderstood.

The level before novice is intermediate.

And get thee a rule book!

[sunshinepointe]

When I join the club I'll get one, right?

[jenlyon60]

not every club provides a copy of the current rulebook for free as part of the membership (mine doesn't).

You can order the current rulebook from USFS for l think less than $20. If you are not currently a member, it appears you have to use the PDF order form. Directly ordering the rulebook online appears to be a "members only" function.

[skaternum]

When I join the club I'll get one, right?Ask your club. My club does NOT include a rulebook in its membership package. And I second the notion -- get a rulebook as soon as possible!

I think she was saying that if I take the novice that I can't compete adult, but I have up to that point (which is Juvenile, no?) to switch over to Adult. Or maybe I misunderstood.Mikawendy answered the "what's before Novice" question, but I want to state it more clearly. To reiterate what I said in an earlier post:

If you pass any standard track FS tests from Pre-preliminary through Juvenile, you are forcing yourself into specific adult categories. Example: if you pass the Preliminary FS test, you are not allowed to skate lower than Bronze in the adult track. And you must then pass the appropriate Adult tests, too, in addition to the standard tests you've already passed. Consult the rulebook to see what those are. In other words, the standard track FS tests don't qualify you to compete as an adult, but they can disqualify you from skating at certain levels. You have to keep this in mind as you're taking your standard tests.

If you pass the standard track Intermediate FS test, you are required to compete in the Masters Novice level. You do not take Adult tests.

[sunshinepointe]

Thanks for clearing this up, otherwise I would have spent my next lesson with my coach just talking about all this.

I'm not really planning on competing so for me taking the Standard track isn't an issue. I understand that I need to take the adult tests all over again if I do decide to switch. I figure if I do one day wish to compete that I'll deal with it then - I just like the idea of testing on the Standard track for some reason. I don't think there's anything wrong with the adult track, but I think that by doing the Standard I'll be forced to kind of "slow down" if that makes any sense. Plus I've had a lot of people emailing me championing me to just do the Standard so that's what I think I'm going to do. Nothing is set in stone though - for now I'll practice the Standard MIF for pre-pre. If nothing else the practice is necessary regardless of testing :oops:

[cecealias]

Oh - you might also want to invest in a copy or borrow from someone the PSA MITF tape. I've heard it's helpful to see what's expected at each test level.

[phoenix]

Oh - you might also want to invest in a copy or borrow from someone the PSA MITF tape. I've heard it's helpful to see what's expected at each test level.

Word of caution about those: they were made when Moves was first introduced, & the judging has gotten more stringent since then. In my area, what is shown on the tapes would not always be passing level. However, they are good for showing pattern, how to learn some of the new steps, etc.

[cecealias]

Oh that's really good to know!! I was just about to buy it!! :lol: I usually watch test sessions to get an idea of the moves but there are fewer people who test at the higher levels so its harder to get a chance to see whats expected

[Sylvia]

Word of caution about those: they were made when Moves was first introduced, & the judging has gotten more stringent since then. In my area, what is shown on the tapes would not always be passing level. However, they are good for showing pattern, how to learn some of the new steps, etc.
Are you referring to the second set of MITF tapes (with skating cameos by Ryan Bradley and an uncredited Ryan Jahnke, among others) that was an updated version of the original set of tapes?

[phoenix]

Are you referring to the second set of MITF tapes (with skating cameos by Ryan Bradley and an uncredited Ryan Jahnke, among others) that was an updated version of the original set of tapes?

I don't know. I borrowed them from a friend so I can't look to check. Didn't know an updated set had been made--my guess would be I saw the originals.

[doubletoe]

Even though MIF are judged slightly differently in different parts of the country, I still think it's very worthwhile to watch those MIF videos to get an idea of the patterns, body positions, flow and overall "look" of each move. It helped me trememdously to watch the video the night before my first MIF lesson at each new level. It enabled me to go into my lesson with an idea of what it was supposed to look like so we didn't have to waste the first 10 minutes of my lesson just trying to figure that out. ;)