hand-held Skate Sharpeners

[SkatingOnClouds]

As I've said before, there is no pro-shop where I live, and the person who sharpens skates, well, let's just say he isn't all that interested in rocker radius and radius of hollow, or edges being level.

So I am interested in the hand-held sharpeners you can get. There are a couple around, Pro-Filer, and Skatemate. I have read the Skate Sharpening thread, but would really like feedback from anyone who uses one, or has any cautionary tales about them.

My blades are Phantoms, and they do have a taper towards the back. They are supposed to have a 7/16" radius of hollow. Well, they are more like 1/2" although much less at the taper. I have read that these gadgets don't work well with tapered blades.

Any comments for or against these gadgets?

If you aren't falling over, you aren't trying hard enough !

[Casey]

Your ROH can be whatever you prefer the feel of - mine are 3/8" currently, though I've had them as low as 5/16" and will likely return to it soon... The smaller the number the sharper the blade, which has various implications more fully discussed in other threads, like this one (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=16277&highlight=radius) (which also discusses the gadget thingies a bit).

The gadget thingies are generally frowned upon, suitable only for quick fixes every now and again. This thread (http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=17876&highlight=sharpening) discusses them a bit more.

If you want to sharpen your skates yourself, I'd recommend just buying a freehand sharpening stone - they're a couple inches long and teardrop-shaped from the side - a fairly standard skate sharpening stone as far as I'm aware - I have one and use it sometimes when I can't afford a sharpening. They're only $3USD here, quite a bit cheaper than the gadget things, and they do a better job IMHO. If you have decent motor skills, it doesn't take long to get fairly good at, and it's not nearly as agressive as a machine sharpening, though in my opinion you'll want to make the trip to a decent pro shop a couple times a year for a good sharpening simply because you're edges have a probability of becoming uneven after lots of hand sharpenings.

But then, there's others who wouldn't dare touch a hand sharpener...judging by the amount of stuff you've done on your skates already, I don't think you're one of them. ;)

Good luck!

[russiet]

As I've said before, there is no pro-shop where I live, and the person who sharpens skates, well, let's just say he isn't all that interested in rocker radius and radius of hollow, or edges being level.

So I am interested in the hand-held sharpeners you can get. There are a couple around, Pro-Filer, and Skatemate. I have read the Skate Sharpening thread, but would really like feedback from anyone who uses one, or has any cautionary tales about them.

My blades are Phantoms, and they do have a taper towards the back. They are supposed to have a 7/16" radius of hollow. Well, they are more like 1/2" although much less at the taper. I have read that these gadgets don't work well with tapered blades.

Any comments for or against these gadgets?

If you aren't falling over, you aren't trying hard enough !

I have used the Pro-Filer for the last 4 months, and I am pleased with the results.

I am, as you already know, a Mr. Gadget type of guy; also adept at using hand tools. As Casey points out, you seem to be as well.

If you go with a hand sharpener, get them machine ground to the radius of the hand sharpener first.

Things that can go wrong? Well for me there have been no problems. But my blades aren't tapered either. I have no experience with that.

If the gadget is pressed too hard to one side or the other, the radius could go off center. That's why you flip the skate while sharpening, to compensate. If you twist the gadget, the hollow could end up being shallower and elliptical.

I admit to having been nervous about screwing it up, but now I think nothing of it. It takes me about 20 minutes at my workbench at home and they are sharp. I don't wait until the blades are slipping before I sharpen them. I inspect the edges after every skate and make judgements that way. I like the consistancy of feel.

A major difference is that a machine grind will remove steel and leave a minor metal bur that is taken off with a hand stone. The hand filers push more steel material out to the side (rather than take it off) and leave a much bigger bur. You can't be shy about removing this larger bur with a hand stone.

Doing the right job is a very tactile thing. My fingers & fingernails tell me when I've done a good job, and the proof is when I get back on the ice.

I vote yes for the hand filer.

[flippet]

I have the 3/8" Pro-Filer, and I love it. My current blades have never seen a machine, not even for the initial sharpening. (I just spent more time on it the first time.) But then, I'm also one of those who likes to tinker with my equipment--in fact, I prefer it, as long as I know that I've learned what to do. The way I see it--if I screw up my own blades, well, I took the responsibility, and the risk, upon myself knowingly, and have only myself to blame. But if I trust someone else (blindly, really) with my blades, and they screw them up....I'll be mad at two people--the person who messed them up, and myself, for trusting them. My own skill, I know. Theirs--not so much. I have to trust...and I don't like doing that with my expensive equipment.

But that's me.

Back to the filer--I've never had a problem with it. I've also never used a 'loose' stone, but it seems that having the stone in a holder would make it easier to, um, hold. :) You do need to use a couple of stones, one for the hollow, and one for the burr. I love my sharpening, it always feels great because I can touch it up any time I want--I don't have to wait until they 'need' a sharpening.

But, I don't have tapered blades. That may make a difference. With the Pro-Filer, you're supposed to use masking tape on the sides of the blade to make a snug fit, and you could use more tape at the tapered bits to make for an even fit. However, I don't use tape at all--it kept getting hot and snagging, and just frustrated me. I found I could do a better, more consistent job without the tape.

Maybe, if you know someone who has a filer or a stone, you could try it out on some old blades and see if you like it, and think you could do it with skill.

[dbny]

My DH, being the talented mechanic in the house, has used both the Pro-filer and the Skatemate on various blades with great results. He has Coronation Aces and uses the Skatemate on them. He hasn't had to have his blades machine sharpened in a few years. Younger DD has Gold Seals, on which you cannot use the Skatemate, hence the Pro-filer. She has 3/8" hollow, so that was the size Pro-filer we bought. DD herself does not have the patience to do the job right, but DH has had no problem with it.

[SkatingOnClouds]

Thanks for all the useful advice. Thanks for the great links Casey. Yeah, I am a tinkerer. I'd rather mess up myself than have someone else mess up for me.

I checked out my radius yesterday using buttons which I measured to be 3/8, 7/16 and 1/2. Phantoms are meant to be 7/16, I wanted to see what they had become over the years of sharpening by the local people.

I also checked my daughter's new Gam Esprits to see if the same pro-filer would do both. Hers are only factory sharpened at present (didn't want to freak her out - being used to rental skates, I thought toe-picks AND sharp blades might be a bit much for her first up), they seem to be 1/2".

Turns out my phantoms are about 1/2" up near the toe-picks. Around the middle somewhere they seem to become 7/16" and when I get to the tapered bit at the end, closer to 3/8". The hollow is much deeper at the tapered part, and quite shallow up front. (I hate to think what the rocker radius is - or perhaps there are several radii by now.)

Phantoms are meant to be 7/16", my daughter's blades are 1/2". Pro-filers and Skatemates don't come in 7/16", only 1/2" or 3/8". So I'd have to decide between the 2.

On one hand I like secure edges, so 3/8" appeals. At my size and age, my ability to hold onto edges could prevent my falling, and lives being lost :lol: I'm not bothered about loss of speed because I have huge momentum and eat up the ice on our tiny rink.

On the other hand, I am not doing enormous jumps, being strictly on singles for now, so a 1/2" would probably be okay. If I got a 1/2", I could use it for my daughter's as well.

So it's six of one, half a dozen of the other as to which size I should go for. Any ideas?

[mikawendy]

Turns out my phantoms are about 1/2" up near the toe-picks. Around the middle somewhere they seem to become 7/16" and when I get to the tapered bit at the end, closer to 3/8". The hollow is much deeper at the tapered part, and quite shallow up front. (I hate to think what the rocker radius is - or perhaps there are several radii by now.)

Phantoms are meant to be 7/16", my daughter's blades are 1/2". Pro-filers and Skatemates don't come in 7/16", only 1/2" or 3/8". So I'd have to decide between the 2.

On one hand I like secure edges, so 3/8" appeals. At my size and age, my ability to hold onto edges could prevent my falling, and lives being lost :lol: I'm not bothered about loss of speed because I have huge momentum and eat up the ice on our tiny rink.

On the other hand, I am not doing enormous jumps, being strictly on singles for now, so a 1/2" would probably be okay. If I got a 1/2", I could use it for my daughter's as well.

So it's six of one, half a dozen of the other as to which size I should go for. Any ideas?

It may partially depend on how you feel about spinning--I haven't skated on 3/8", but I've heard from some people who have that it's easier with a 3/8" ROH to accidentally catch an edge on a spin.

[Casey]

It may partially depend on how you feel about spinning--I haven't skated on 3/8", but I've heard from some people who have that it's easier with a 3/8" ROH to accidentally catch an edge on a spin.
On the other hand, I like to not go flying when going into a spin really fast and thusly on a hard edge - the deeper hollow *helps* with that, with 7/16" I would sometimes skid on the spin entry.

I've heard it also depends on weight and height, though I'm not sure in which way.

It's very odd that your ROH varies along the blade, because on a machine sharpening you can't really change it as you go - you grind the sharpening wheel to one particular ROH, and the whole blade comes out that way...

[SkatingOnClouds]

It's very odd that your ROH varies along the blade, because on a machine sharpening you can't really change it as you go - you grind the sharpening wheel to one particular ROH, and the whole blade comes out that way...

Yeah, weird isn't it. I couldn't believe it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I used buttons, as I said, which I picked for the 3 different radii.

Then sat them in the hollow to see how snugly they fit, then moved them along the blade. And came up with the results I listed above. Am I doing it wrong, is there a better way?

[russiet]

Yeah, weird isn't it. I couldn't believe it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I used buttons, as I said, which I picked for the 3 different radii.

Then sat them in the hollow to see how snugly they fit, then moved them along the blade. And came up with the results I listed above. Am I doing it wrong, is there a better way?

It might be, but it has to be a mistake somehow.

My boot fitter/skate blade guru (Jonathan English, Peabody Mass....my endorsement for those close enough to use him) says to use the largest radius that works for you. I use 1/2 and am working on singles.

I also think skaters with smaller radii complain about the grabbiness right after a grind. They also like the blades a lot better after they get worn in (a.k.a. dulled) Mine are always sharp and require no adjustment after I sharpen them.

I'm thinking you should use 1/2 for now and drop down from there. With greater weight, the radius shouldn't need to be as small.

http://www.sendpix.com/albums/06011605/ifa81h7vbw/

Probably doesn't show too much, but that's my blade after I got done with a sharpening.

Jon

[EastonSkater]

I'd go with the pro-filer. It's solid as a rock. I'd say it's indestructable. The very good thing about the pro-filer is that the diamond dust cylinder is completely solid, so no matter how hard you press on it, it's not going to change its shape. The other sharpener called the skatemate has a flexible cylinder. A flexible cylinder seems a bit suspect to me. So unless the skatemate now comes with improved solid cylinders, I would stick to the solid cylinder of the pro-filer.

Even though the pro-filer costs a fair bit, it's a very good device. The only thing I've noticed about the pro-filer is that it can be a little biased on the edge it sharpens. I noticed that I consistently get a sharper edge on the same side of the blade than on the other side. What I mean is, I consistently have one side of an edge SUPER SHARP, while the other edge is sharp, but not as sharp as the other super sharp edge. When I mean super sharp, I mean ...as in you better not run your finger along the edge.

I doubt that you'd want to use a pro-filer to sharpen a brand new blade that has never been sharpened before. That's what flippet said (as in saying that it was used to sharpen a previously unsharpened blade). That could take AGES, and probably wear out the diamond cylinder as well. It's not impossible to do it, but probably not worth the effort to grind a flat blade with a hand hand sharpener. You should get the brand new blades machine sharpened initially, and then just use the hand hand sharpener thereafter.

I don't think that the pro-filer can ruin your blades if you just use it in the way the instructions recommend. And after a year or two, you could just go for a machine grind again....no problems at all. One thing I do to make the pro-filer run smoothly along the blade during grinding is to just rub a candle lightly on the sides of the blade. Just lightly should be fine. The candle wax reduces friction between the blade and the sides of the pro-filer chassis. It works really well.

[flippet]

I doubt that you'd want to use a pro-filer to sharpen a brand new blade that has never been sharpened before. That's what flippet said (as in saying that it was used to sharpen a previously unsharpened blade). That could take AGES, and probably wear out the diamond cylinder as well. It's not impossible to do it, but probably not worth the effort to grind a flat blade with a hand hand sharpener.

Well, when I said 'unsharpened', what I really meant was 'factory sharpening'...which isn't an untouched, flat blade, but it's not particularly sharp (to skate on) either. Yeah, trying to sharpen an untouched blade with a hand-held would be interesting, to say the least!

I also think skaters with smaller radii complain about the grabbiness right after a grind. They also like the blades a lot better after they get worn in (a.k.a. dulled) Mine are always sharp and require no adjustment after I sharpen them.

I actually like that 'grabby' feeling (as long as it isn't so far gone as to be 'sticky'). What's nice about having a hand-held (which is what I think you're saying here) is that if you use it regularly, there's no 'adjustment period' after a fresh grind. You aren't going from a dull, really-needs-a-sharpening blade to a super-sharp, throw-you-over-your-picks blade. Also, some of the 'stickyness' comes from having a bit of a burr left on the edge of the blade. Careful use of the side-honing stone will take care of that.