Axel

[LilMissPurrrfec]

I've been working on my axel for a couple of months now. I can land it off ice consistently with 1.25 turns, sometimes with 1.5. On ice though I'm just not getting to grips with it. I've been doing it from standing on the ice, although I think it would be easier if I skated into it. I did a test and off-ice I can't get the rotations if I go straight from standing - surely this would be a reason on ice too?

What's your experience with skating into axels as opposed to starting from standstill?

Anyother axel tips also appreciated!

[Debbie S]

I'm not working on the axel yet (and at the rate I'm going, I probably never will - lol) but I think the general rule with jumps is that you get more height and rotation (and flow on the landing) if you go into them with speed as opposed to a standstill. I tend to slow down on my loops, and while I find it less scary to jump that way, I usually end up cheating it or coming to a complete stop when I land. When I jump with a little bit of speed, I find it easier to complete, as long as I don't back off from it.

[cutiesk8r43]

yeah it is easier doing an axel moving than standstill axels, but my coach had me land it first standing still, then she had me doing like 2 backward crossovers. What might help you when your standing still is to push forward then jump, that way you are moving alittle bit.
well good luck! :)

~Cutie ;)

[BelleOnIce]

I think most coaches prefer getting you get most of the rotation from standing as it then makes it easier when you add the speed.
When I was learning I remember trying from a stand still, then moving on to a little side step on my toes in to it (like you may do off ice), then doing a three turn and push, and lastly doing it from some cross overs.
If you add speed too soon it could mean you lose control of the jump which may take alot more work to fix.
Make sure when you are pushing in to take off you are thinking about both height and rotation. You want to push down off your take off leg, but spring up and kick through with your other. Also I remember trying to concentrate on using my arms to help me. The first push forward and down my arms went forward together then back together, then as I kicked my leg through my arms went with it, controlled and together.
Not sure if any of this will help, but I hope it will!
If you need any other help just ask!

Belle

[doubletoe]

If you can't do it from a standstill off the ice, you might not have enough rotation yet, and that is a completely separate issue from the standstill or momentum issue. The value to doing it from a standstill on the floor is that you learn to jump straight up and really use your right hip to pull you around into that backspin position in the air.
I had my axel fully rotated on the floor from a standstill for a year before I finally landed it on the ice, and when I landed it for the first time on the ice, it was from a mohawk-right back outside edge but barely moving. I remember that's what helped me finally land it that day: slowing the entrance down to a crawl.

[Kelli]

The problem with going into the Axel with any speed is that it makes it way too easy to jump out instead of up. That being said, I can only land my Axel when I skate into it, and have never landed it from a standstill. But if I get sloppy or have any timing issues, the jump goes straight across the ice instead of up.

[luna_skater]

Almost every coach I know teaches the axel from a stand-still as well.

[icecatepairs]

hmm....like the camel spin i am starting to think i am very strange!!! a am definilty going against the majority polled here. i have been doing axels for quite awhile...(3 years in silver and 2 in gold) I can do them solo, can do them in combo, can so them as a throw in pairs. i cannot and will not ever do them standing still. i know this sounds strange...but they are terrifying standing still. i think that it is easier to get rotation when you have some speed. i landed it form a small back crossover the first time. i think for me standing still i would throw my arms around too much. since the feeling of an axel is second nature now i can truly say that the "feeling of an axel " is not something i can recreate at a terribly slow speed. i did however do them off the edge of the swimming pool to really feel the snap in the air. so i know there will be a windfall of commentary on this one, but I'm not a fan of standing still. i've never seen anyone do a standing double flip , loop, or sal. or lutz. (ok i'm using this logic to jsutify my fear of standing still entrances to anything!!!) really either. slower . yes. dead stopped no. cheated maybe, form a small slow turn or whatever relates to the jump at hand...but never dead stopped. even as a throw they are never better with just a pushout than as slower version of our normal entrance. but everyone learns differently and most of my coaches were not thrilled with the "I don't do standing still...how about i just do it and crash and burn if it doesn't work out theory" !


ok let the commentary begin . (and not icecate pairs is weird please...we already knew that!!! :lol:

[BelleOnIce]

I know a few people who have never landed it from standstill and prefer the speed, but its not even a fully landed jump you look for at stand still, just to give the skater a feel for the height and rotation involved.
Before learning an axel all your jumps are singles and mostly if your able to attempt an axel you should have some speed going in to the single jumps.
The reason double jumps are not attempted from stand still is the are not forward facing jumps like the axel which requires a strong push on take off to take you through the jump.
I dont think anything you said "icecatepairs" could be said as unreasonable or needing bashed! You preferred learning with speed, and when I was landing mine at first from a stand still it was difficult but then made it easier once I added the speed.
LilMissPurrrfec how ever you feel more comfortable entering the jump is what is important, not what everyone else's prefrences are. Just remember to think it through while your on the ice, but dont over analyze and put more pressure on yourself than needed. The more you practise, both on ice and off ice you will gradually become more comfortable with the jump!
Let us know how you are getting on with it!!

[2salch0w]

For the most part I'm with icecatepairs on this (whaddya know?), but I did have an interesting experience on a public session this week. I was in NYC and I skated a crowded public at night, so I was stuck in the tiny middle section trying to avoid all the people that don't understand what the middle is there for. When I worked on the axel I had to go slower than usual, and also had to make sure I landed w/ very little coverage and ready to stop on a dime.

This all actually helped, much to my surprise. I've lost my axel as of late and have been fighting to get it back. These very slow, contained attempts were actually pretty decent. I think it reminded me of how to arrest my forward motion and put it into the jump and the rotation. This gives me some insight into my problem - I think I throw myself too forward when taking it at normal speed.

But when I have my axel, I will say that I like decent speed into it. And if we're talking about speed, I have to add that the Lutz is the jump that is most speed-dependent for me. I won't do it slow at all.

The only stand-still Axel exercise I've done that helps somewhat is the one where you step forward on the opposite outside edge, the step outside edge to your take-off foot, then go. It gets me to step up more than I usually do, but I've never done a really good one this way.

Tim

[mikawendy]

But when I have my axel, I will say that I like decent speed into it. And if we're talking about speed, I have to add that the Lutz is the jump that is most speed-dependent for me. I won't do it slow at all.

Tim

Now I think I understand why I see some skaters at the rink who are learning an axel sloooow waaay down before they jump. I always thought it was because fear was taking over, but it does seem like the skaters I've seen who slow down before the entry are getting the up-then-around feeling rather than traveling too much on the way up into the jump.

I agree with you on the lutz. I'm only doing 1/2 lutz, but the lutz is the only jump that I can imagine feeling worse if I were to have to do it from a complete standstill instead of with speed. The other single jumps I've done from a standstill or very little speed to learn the technique of the jump and to learn the "feeling of the jump."

[coskater64]

I learned them from slower outside edges, like icecatepairs I'm not fond of doing them from a stand still. But, I learned good rotation doing them from a stand still on the ground, I also did them very small and very tight to help w/ rotation. As ever what works for one may not work for all even though having a good axel on the ground is helpful, and it should be a nice axel, I like to practice delayed axels on the ground and when I get really bored I practice axels w/ 1 or both hands over my head during them jumps it helps me focus on my feet and the snap, it also makes me force myself to do the jump correctly or else, I'm on the floor.

Have fun :D

[MichTheSkater]

i find it easyest to skate into it. Not too fast just a nice easy speed.

This is what i do with my double axle.. im thinking it will be the same for single axle.

Skate backwards on the middle circle. Do one cross cut, line up. Bring your arms through narrow. stay over your feet, step forwards leaning forward with your arms infront. glide on that edge while bringing your arms back and then forwards again.. Jump forward not arround.

Its kind of hard to explain. :?? Hope it helps:) 8O

[doubletoe]

I like to practice delayed axels on the ground and when I get really bored I practice axels w/ 1 or both hands over my head during them jumps it helps me focus on my feet and the snap, it also makes me force myself to do the jump correctly or else, I'm on the floor.


Wow, impressive! Hmm, maybe I'll try that, too, instead of just warming up with regular axels on the floor. . .

[doubletoe]

Now I think I understand why I see some skaters at the rink who are learning an axel sloooow waaay down before they jump. I always thought it was because fear was taking over, but it does seem like the skaters I've seen who slow down before the entry are getting the up-then-around feeling rather than traveling too much on the way up into the jump.

I agree with you on the lutz. I'm only doing 1/2 lutz, but the lutz is the only jump that I can imagine feeling worse if I were to have to do it from a complete standstill instead of with speed. The other single jumps I've done from a standstill or very little speed to learn the technique of the jump and to learn the "feeling of the jump."

Yes, that's true. I could never land the lutz until I finally tried skating full speed into it and really attacking it. I still skate full speed into my lutz and feel most confident on it when I approach it that way. But the dynamics of the lutz and axel are completely different because you propel yourself up into the air using a different type of mechanism. With the axel, you really need to focus on jumping straight up, not out, and it's hard to do that when you have too much speed. Eventually you'll be able to keep good form doing it with more speed, but at first it can really mess you up.

[Jump]

I agree about the lutz. No speed = no landing, for me.
Regarding the axel - I badly badly wanted to start learning it from a few crosssovers, but my coach insisted on standing still. Now, I can hardly do it without warming up from the stand-still position.
If you learn it from standing still, it is easy to make the mistake of taking off on an edge too deep and then jumping and kicking back into the centre of the 'circle' instead of following the line of the circle. (does this make any sense?)
That's my problem now, so I have to make a conscious effort to kick out and not around/back into the circle.
Totally agree with doubletoe - must jump UP with the axel. I tend to jump across, and then end up with too little time to complete my revolutions.
For me, I cannot practice delayed axels office. On the ice, I take way too long to get into the 'backspin position' and its almost like I do a delayed axel - ending up with not enough time to turn 1.5 rounds again.

[doubletoe]

Yes, that's another problem you may encounter when you start skating into the axel instead of doing it from a standstill (from a T position, with takeoff foot in front and facing forward, landing foot in back and turned out). You need to re-create the T-position for any pushoff onto the takeoff edge. If you are already moving across the ice and you are on a circle created by a RBO edge, it's very easy to turn out too much as you step out onto the left foot and continue right on that circle as you take off. What you need to do is to push off onto the LFO takeoff edge just like a T-stop push-off, so that you push off perpindicular to--or outside of--the circle you created with your back outside preparatory edge. If you push off onto the same circle, you will never get a clean axel because you'll start rotating over your takeoff hip, which will make it nearly impossible to get over your landing hip.