Black/White Skates + Sex of Wearer = Points?

[Kevin Callahan]

So I finally went in for a fitting. I've been working 50+ hour weeks since the semester ended, and I should have a large check coming. I went into the local skate shop for a fitting so I would know what was recommended. The saleswoman told me that I should get a Super-Teri boot and a MK II Professional blade. You can comment on this if you want.

What I'm really posting about is what happened next. I offhandedly remarked that I didn't like black (my wardrobe has very little black) and would rather have white skates. Since I was dealing with a business transaction, I was rather startled when she said "No." So I asked her why, and she said "I'm traditional." So? I didn't ask, what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Rather I think I just mumbled my confusion. Then the other saleswoman came over and asked if I wanted to compete and if I did, then the judges would take off for a male skating in white skates. I couldn't resist the urge to call that sexist, but I did admit I'd rather not lost points right out of the gate.

Still, the last time I looked into boots (a few weeks ago) the person I spoke to then didn't say anything of the sort, and so I'm seeking another opinion (or several). Besides, don't skaters use covers to change the color of their skates for competition anyway? I guess I don't understand why this is such a big deal, and I'd really hate to spend $650 on something I am not completely satisfied with.

[dbny]

I've never heard of anyone losing points for having an unusual color boot. Nevertheless, I do think that some judges might find it distracting to see a male skater in white boots, and that distraction alone could account for a lower mark if it meant that some positive aspects of your performance were missed. OTOH, if you were to wear white pants as part of your costume, I don't think it would make a difference if your boots were white.

[skaternum]

Technically, NO. There is no deduction for the color of your skates. If you don't mind being talked about skaters, parents, and bystanders, and you don't mind possibly distracting/annoying the judges, get any color you want.

[jazzpants]

Technically, NO. There is no deduction for the color of your skates. If you don't mind being talked about skaters, parents, and bystanders, and you don't mind possibly distracting/annoying the judges, get any color you want.jazzpants (aka "Mrs PurpleBoots") speaking here!!! :P

I was wearing black skates and now PURPLE skate! No one has said anything demeaning about my purple boots. (They all think it's a cool color!!! 8-) ) Then again, my coaches tell me to wear OTB tights at competitions and tests to cover it up anyway. You might have to go with boot covers for a competition, if nothing else. (Of course, I don't even know the rules about boot covers for a technical program anyway, so...)

Just my $0.02. Talk to a skating judge in front of your coach if you really want to confirm the boot color thing. I previously had issues (w/my coaches) re: wearing my black boots to a comp or a test, but our US Nationals judge confirmed that "black boots for a woman" is perfectly acceptable and provides a "nice line" w/black tights too! But I don't know the rules for a guy though.

[Bothcoasts]

You could always wear black boot covers when you compete, if it turns out that male skaters are deducted points for having white boots.

But honestly, I see no reason why you shouldn't get a color that satisfies you. One of my fellow coaches has pink skates, and I know a student who skates with light green Harlicks. Go for skates that make you want to be on the ice!

[coskater64]

I skated againist a woman who wore black boots, she was an excellent skater and won our group. The reason she gave for the boots was very amusing but some people did talk about them. She also wore pants instead of a dress which is currently 100% acceptable in skating and the black skates worked very well with what she wore.

Of course realize-- white makes things look bigger than they are so your feet will be more noticable and if you are wearing a dark color pant it will be distracting. You will have to deal w/ people talking about it, so it's up to you. I mean maybe you could get black boots and white boot covers. Maybe you could get the beige boots they make boots in lots of colors...just remember when you compete you want people to watch all of you, posture, grace, jumps spins and footwork, you don't want them distracted by your skates.

[jenlyon60]

There is no mandated deduction in the USFS rulebook for color of skates.

However, some judges do have prejudices against such issues as color of skates (be they tan, black on women, white on guys, teal, pink, purple, zebra-striped, etc.) and use of over-the-boot tights. These unstated prejudices could conceivably come into play in the marking of the 2nd mark.

OTOH, if you're male and wearing white skate pants with your white boots, someone would have to look very closely to realize that you've got white boots vice having white boot covers.... since mens skate trousers often have hooks in front that fasten to the laces as well as snap/velcro straps that go around the sole of the boot to keep the trousers snug in the ankle/forefoot so that you aren't as apt to catch your skate blade in them and injure yourself.

[skaternum]

You could always wear black boot covers when you compete, if it turns out that male skaters are deducted points for having white boots.Again, there is NO such rule.

And, byt the way, all the examples of cool colored boots you guys are giving are all of women wearing nontraditional boot colors. Discounting the boot covers colored to match their pants, men face more prejudice about nontraditional boot colors than women. IOW, it's more acceptable for a woman to wear black boots than it is for a man to wear white boots. Note: this is not my personal prejudice. I'm just saying this is the reality of the situation in our society.

Like anywhere else in society, the world of skating has its norms. As long as you're not breaking a real rule, and you don't mind all the baggage that goes along with violating a norm (being talked about, arguing with your tradition-minded coach, etc.), have at it. But don't listen to bullsh** from people who don't know anything about the rules. Skaternum's standard plea/rant: Buy a rulebook and read it!!

[jazzpants]

men face more prejudice about nontraditional boot colors than women. IOW, it's more acceptable for a woman to wear black boots than it is for a man to wear white boots. Note: this is not my personal prejudice. I'm just saying this is the reality of the situation in our society.Yup! That was my point. I don't know the prejudices for a guy, but I know that your coach and skating judges should know the rules and the prejudices re: the white boots. (i.e. there are no rules, but there are prejudices...)

But I should emphasize: 1) ask your coaches and skating judges and 2) buy yourself a current USFSA rulebook and read it!!!

[Kevin Callahan]

Ask Tim, gotcha. Ask a skating judge in front of him, gotcha. I'll hold off on ordering through these people until I have an answer that satisfies me. If they don't want my money for being non-traditional, well, I can go somewhere else.

Oh, I'll note that I have white boots now. I don't care about the "baggage," as I violate gender norms on a regular basis. Of course this is not about gender norms. This is me simply not liking black.

[crayonskater]

Not a competitive skater, but I expect that while there isn't a mandatory deduction, there would be undue attention on the skates rather than your skating; and there's plenty of room for prejudices about costuming decisions to affect presentation-type marks.

Also, I might expect that if you have large feet and are looking for a stock boot, there might not be a white boot large enough/wide enough (if they make the last narrower on women's skates like they do with shoes.)

[Kevin Callahan]

Not a competitive skater, but I expect that while there isn't a mandatory deduction, there would be undue attention on the skates rather than your skating; and there's plenty of room for prejudices about costuming decisions to affect presentation-type marks.

That's what the second saleswoman said.

Also, I might expect that if you have large feet and are looking for a stock boot, there might not be a white boot large enough/wide enough (if they make the last narrower on women's skates like they do with shoes.)

Not an issue. My feet aren't wide at all. The boots I have no were likely made with women or girls in mind, I'm guessing.

[Kevin Callahan]

Just called Tim. We have a lesson at 4:30, and we'll discuss the boot situation around 4:00 or so.

[jazzpants]

Oh, I'll note that I have white boots now. I don't care about the "baggage," as I violate gender norms on a regular basis. Of course this is not about gender norms. This is me simply not liking black.Are you okay with brown boots? Just checking since my skating coach had brown boots and "bling-bling" GOLD colored MK Gold Star.

[samba]

If your'e not competing it doesn't matter if you skate in pink boots with purple spots, so wear what you want.

BUT as a competitor I find it hard enough dealing with nerves and I personally wouldnt risk loosing a single point over something so easily within my control, but that's just me.

Cheers
Grace

[Kevin Callahan]

If your'e not competing it doesn't matter if you skate in pink boots with purple spots, so wear what you want.

BUT as a competitor I find it hard enough dealing with nerves and I personally wouldnt risk loosing a single point over something so easily within my control, but that's just me.

Cheers
Grace

I quite agree. If the bias is strong enough to make judges mark me down, of course boot color doesn't matter (especially when there are so many things that you need to do with boots that do matter), but if this is just some random woman giving me her preference, that's an entirely different thing.

[peshu]

FWIW, I am female and my skates are mens but I ordered them in white. I got mens (boys actually) because as my coach put it, I have a child-sized foot on an adult sized leg, and the mens skates run wider at the leg. Width in the toe and heel wasn't an issue since the size was so small. If the men's sizes give you a better fit, just order them in white. Riedell at least allows you to make two (or maybe three?) changes to a stock boot, things such as getting a different color or making the tongue wider, and I think other companies must do the same.

[Figuresk8_katie]

If you are worrying about losing marks for "untraditional" skates, consider boot-covers. This way, you have lots to choose from, plus, it will always go with your costume!

good luck!

[aussieskater]

Just a thought re competing (from a female ex-black boot wearer, now in white): if your skates are unusual in some way (colour, material, big diamantes on the heel - yes, I have seen these, and they looked great!!), then I'd want to have my footwork *really* sharp through the whole program.

White skates on a man would be very uncommon to say the least, and I would guess that the judges will almost have no option but to watch your skates - you will find it hard to distract their attention away from them. Right or wrong, it's a fact of life that something unusual will attract attention.

For me, white skates work because as a female they're "normal" and white skates are harder to see against the ice therefore the mistakes blend into the ice and are harder to see...

[sk8er1964]

My (male) coach has orange boots. His coach told him that was fine, as long as he used boot covers when he competed. I thought they'd look horrible, but they actually look fine with his black pants. Then again, I know him, like him, and am not a judge. ;)

[stardust skies]

Well...I'm pretty sure that unless you have a really small foot, you'd have to get customs if you were wanting to get white skates in a man's size. Why bother, customs are way more expensive...and if there's no other reason you need them, then it's sort of a waste of money you could be spending on more lessons.

I think that skating much like ballet or gymnastics or other such sports are traditional and that's GOOD. I personally found it a bummer that ladies can now wear pants for competitions, although thankfully no one I know (save for Irina Slutskaia who has earned the right to do whatever she damn pleases) is taking advantage of this.

The thing is that the judges are very old school. If white skates are for girls, and a man wears them, it implies they're feminine or gay. That shouldn't deduct points, especially when you see some of the more effeminate men winning championships, however, especially at lower levels, it DOES affect it. That's the same reason there are no openly gay eligible mens skaters. It affects your scores. Everything you do or say or wear or don't wear affects your scores. Shouldn't, but what are you going to do about it? If you're going to spend money on this sport, and if you're going to compete, you need to make sacrifices and compromises. Pick your battles. The color of your boots is really going to be the least of your worries in the long run.

I really think black boots look great on guys, regardless of if the rest of their attire is black, just like I think white boots look good on girls. If it were something super important, I'd say...fight for it, make a change. But boot colors? I mean you can always wear white boot covers for practices...if it's that important. But boot covers can be a little tacky. You shouldn't be looking at your feet when you skate anyways. ;)

Just my thoughts. You're going to run into a lot of things like these as you go along. Most of the time, it's best to just go along with it, because I guarantee you're not going to make any allies by trying to be "different". This isn't really the sport for it. I'm considered pretty rebellious in my skating circles, and even I wouldn't pick a fight over something like this. Haha. Keep us updated!

[TashaKat]

if your skates are unusual in some way (colour, material, big diamantes on the heel - yes, I have seen these, and they looked great!!), then I'd want to have my footwork *really* sharp through the whole program.

That's a really good point!

I have nothing against anyone wearing whatever colour they want, I have purple boots after all :) but aussieskater's point is a really good one. You need to decide if you WANT to draw attention to your feet!

The other thing that I thought of when I read your post was whether white would 'go' with your outfits ... is there any point in buying white skates only to have to put boot covers on to 'match'? There are companies out there who do different coloured skates that aren't custom (I know that Wifa were at one point, don't know if they still do) so the world, as they say, is your oyster :)

Just a point about customs ... I disagree that they're a waste of money, I've had two pairs now and they're more than worth the money I spent AND have lasted longer than any off-the-shelf boots AND without the pain! On a wear to wear basis they're probably cheaper in the long run (for me anyway) than regular boots.

[sceptique]

Guys -

maybe I have a different headset, but most of you are talking about competing as if your life depends on it. Face it, for the adult skaters competitions are just a sort of self-expression: it's not going to advance their career, or get them a pay-raise or win them Nike endorsement deal or tangibly affect their life in any way at all, so why hold back?
Most of us have to bend and play by the rules 9 to 5 (at least!) to bring home the check, so why not to have a bit of personality in the ways we spend it? I can sort of see the point of not wearing trainers and denims while I'm on a client's premises (I work in professional services) - and when I start losing that point I can always have a glimpse at my mortgage bill for a bit of reality check, but at the rink.... Come on guys, it's about skating, not about winning or losing or scoring points! This is where we, adults, have advantage over younger skaters in being more adventurous and innovative - to the level of our abilities - because the stakes aren't as high. After all, we have already established ourselves elsewhere, as doctors, teachers, programmers or taxi drivers, and don't need that extra 0.5 of the point to prove to the world that we can be taken seriously.

I'd say, go with your heart and make sure that everyone remembers you as "that guy in white boots who skates really well".

[Mrs Redboots]

Quite. Why do you think I'm "Mrs Redboots"?!

I'm traditional enough to want white skates, but that's so I can ring the changes with multicoloured boot covers (and I do mean multicoloured!). I do wear black boot covers, or at best navy, for couples lessons since a coach told me that bright boot covers meant he would have his attention drawn to my feet, not my husband's, but other than that, anything goes! Including boot covers in the liturgical colour of the season on Sundays!

My coach won't let me compete in boot covers, though, he reckons the judges don't like them. I wear over-boot tights instead, as I prefer the line, anyway.

But I've seen boots in all sorts of colours these past years, including leopardskin print - next thing you know, someone will make them in Burberry and bling for the chavs......

[TashaKat]

I sort of agree with you, Sceptique, but part of the pleasure for me isn't as an 'adult' anything but as a skater/rider/dancer. I want to be treated by my coaches how they treat the kids that they teach, I am serious about the things that I do for fun and play by the 'rules' accordingly. If I was told that purple skates were a 'no no' and that I would lose points then, yes, I WOULD cover them up or use my white ones.

Everyone is different, I guess, and perhaps some people think that I am too serious about my hobbies but then that's my mindset.

[phoenix]

The trouble with white boots is you can't wear them after Labor Day.

[skaternum]

As much as we all like to say that we adult skaters are only in it for the fun, that's only a partial truth for many people. Those of us who choose to compete obviously care to some extent what people (judges, spectators, our fellow competitors) think about us. We craft programs that are designed to show off our good points, minimize our bad points, and still challenge us. We select costumes that we hope will make us look and feel good. So it's not that we're just out on the ice for 2:10, tooling around having fun. We're serious about what we do on the ice. Based on Kevin's previous posts, I'd assume he's fairly serious about adult competition.

If I'm a fairly new competitor, the last thing I want to do is distract the judges so that they focus on my feet and not on my brilliant smile or fabulous upper body carriage or whatever else may be one of my strong points. Perhaps I should let you all in on my Sekret Weapon -- big rhinestone earrings. :lol: I wear them to draw the judges' eyes upward and away from my feet! Note per the theme of this thread: this only works for WOMEN. haha

Personally, I'd rather make a statement with my skating than with my attire, but everyone is different. And besides, just wearing something different on the ice isn't guarenteed to pi** off the judges anyway. If you're a good skater, you'll still get decent scores. In my experience, most of the people who've been all fired up to "express themselves" on the ice wind up with low placement for a whole different set of reasons! :roll:

[skaternum]

The trouble with white boots is you can't wear them after Labor Day.
LOL!! :lol:

[Kevin Callahan]

But I've seen boots in all sorts of colours these past years, including leopardskin print - next thing you know, someone will make them in Burberry and bling for the chavs......

The second saleswoman said her non-competition boots are real cheetah skin.

And God help us all of Chavs get on the ice. :evil:

[Kevin Callahan]

As much as we all like to say that we adult skaters are only in it for the fun, that's only a partial truth for many people. Those of us who choose to compete obviously care to some extent what people (judges, spectators, our fellow competitors) think about us. We craft programs that are designed to show off our good points, minimize our bad points, and still challenge us. We select costumes that we hope will make us look and feel good. So it's not that we're just out on the ice for 2:10, tooling around having fun. We're serious about what we do on the ice. Based on Kevin's previous posts, I'd assume he's fairly serious about adult competition.

This is all definitely true. However, the issue isn't self-expression in an intentional, conscious way. It really is that I don't like black. I don't even own a pair of black shoes. I have maybe three black t-shirts. Most of my wardrobe is colored or white. I guess I really didn't realize this would be that much of a big deal. Although I do admit, telling me I can or cannot do something based solely on my sex, especially in a sport like Figure Skating where I get enough flack from non-skaters because I'm male, really, really urks me. It's a sure-fire way to make sure I have a really good reason before I don't whatever I'm being told I can't do.

And I am serious, which is why if Tim says "Black boots," I'll do black boots. At their core boots and blades are tools to achieve a goal. Which means I'm going to use, as others have said, the best tools available. I wouldn't ask for a hammer in pink. I'd just want it to work right. Same with my skates. I just want them to work right.

[sceptique]

The second saleswoman said her non-competition boots are real cheetah skin.


khmm.... now I start seeing the point in keeping at least just a little bit of tradition.... probably because my cat's name is Cheetah :D

But I would still go for whatever colour my heart pleases (and if it's Burberry check - well, blame my parents and neighbourhood!) and just use OBT or boot covers that match the pants for competitions (well, it's a special occasion after all). Competition ice time is 1:30'-4:00' x 5-6 times a year, pratice time is 5-15 hours a week, so your boots will be your most worn piece of footwear (unless you're someone like me who wears the same pair of black trainers everywhere, from gym to office parties), and you need to be comfortable in them, not just physically, but mentaly too.

Personally I wouldn't pick anything other than white/beige/tan for myself - but it's only because I think that white/beige/tan is more "stylish", but I sure understand people who find it boring and go for orange. Well, there's always a downside of being non-conventional - you have to work harder to prove that you are not a joke - but this is a trade-off one always has to make, not only in skating.

[phoenix]

The second saleswoman said her non-competition boots are real cheetah skin.


Totally OT for a second, but I'm sure that's not true. Cheetahs are an endangered species. There's a boot maker (Harlick?) that makes "furry" boots, my friend had zebra "fur", but it's not real zebra. Maybe it's something like cowhide dyed to have different animal patterns.

[samba]

I sort of agree with you, Sceptique, but part of the pleasure for me isn't as an 'adult' anything but as a skater/rider/dancer. I want to be treated by my coaches how they treat the kids that they teach, I am serious about the things that I do for fun and play by the 'rules' accordingly. If I was told that purple skates were a 'no no' and that I would lose points then, yes, I WOULD cover them up or use my white ones.

Everyone is different, I guess, and perhaps some people think that I am too serious about my hobbies but then that's my mindset.

Well said TashaKat, I couldnt have put it better myself.

Cheers
Random Woman

[Kevin Callahan]

Totally OT for a second, but I'm sure that's not true. Cheetahs are an endangered species. There's a boot maker (Harlick?) that makes "furry" boots, my friend had zebra "fur", but it's not real zebra. Maybe it's something like cowhide dyed to have different animal patterns.

I thought the same, but no, she said, they're real. She either lying, breaking the law, or there's some explanation.

[phoenix]

I thought the same, but no, she said, they're real. She either lying, breaking the law, or there's some explanation.

My guess would be "misinformed."

[Kevin Callahan]

Okay, had my lesson with Tim earlier today and he said I'd better stick to black. Although he agrees with me in principle, and considers the tradition stupid, he also agrees that there's no reason for me to antagonize the judges over boot color. As one earlier poster said, this is not the battle that needs to be fought.

On another note, all we worked on was basics because he's worried about the boots I have. He wants to go into salcows, loops and toe loops but not until I get my SP Teri's. The boots I have now are just too weak in the ankle. Did get waltz jumps and a simple two legged spin in, however. In general a good practice, even if I didn't have the right equipment to use it to its full potential.

[Blosmbubbs]

Kevin, have you thought about getting brown boots? Not tan but dark brown so they still look like black from far away but aren't.

[batikat]

I'd agree with your coach that for competition it is better to stick with the traditional. White in particular is so associated with ladies skating in people's minds that it just looks odd to see a guy skate in white boots (although I think I have seen major competitions where the man's costume was predominantly white and the boots were covered to match - for some reason if they are obviously boot covers in white or a pale colour it doesnt' have the same effect as if they were actual white boots, (because the boots underneath could still be black I guess ;) :lol: ).

You can think of competitions like job interviews. What you wear may not be anything like your normal attire and have no bearing at all on your skills to do the job but most people would dress in an 'appropriate' outfit for an interview to make a good impression. So it's the same for competitions - if it helps and avoids distracting the judges from their job (i.e. seeing how well you skate) that has to be good.

Anyway if you want people to talk about how well you skated rather than about your boots then get black. Then make yourself some boot covers for training in - they are incredibly easy to make if you have access to a sewing machine. The easiest material to use is Lycra in any colour but you can also buy white Lycra and colour it using transfer paints (they dont affect the 'handle' of the material like fabric paints do.)

I've made boot covers in all colours including some made to look like kid's flowery patterned roller skates and also in materials like satin lining material to match a show costume. It's not quite so easy in a non-stretch fabric but it can be done - you just have to allow a little more room so you can get it over the boot.

You dont even need a pattern - just lay your boot on the material, fold the material around the heel end to enclose it and pin together around the front, following the line of the boot. Allow a bit of material top and bottom to fold over for a casing for elastic - or can stretch stitch elastic directly to the fabric if you dont like making casings and threading through. Can be close pinned if using Lycra but allow some ease at the front if using non-stretch stuff. My patented method at this point is simply to grab the scissors and cut out the shape while still on the boot and then sew approximately on the pinned line, or tack the material in place first to give you a sewing line to follow (or before cutting out!). It doesnt' matter if it's not very accurate as it's hard to tell from a distance especially when you are moving!

Happy skating!

[russiet]

Every one has a different sense of style. Sometimes it goes outside the norms. Eh....my opinion is that if your serious, about competing, go with something other than white.

Me? I think brown suede would be cool. Right now I have black suede.

Jon

[jazzpants]

Kevin, have you thought about getting brown boots? Not tan but dark brown so they still look like black from far away but aren'tMy coach had this back in 2002 with gold bling-bling MK Gold Star blades too! (Then again, he had the skating skills to go with the bling.) 8-)

You know, I totally forgot the other option, though it would take more time and you would have to do this ahead of time... why not get SK8Tape to cover up the skates black when competition time is near and then take it off after the competition? (Said coach also Sk8taped his teaching boots white to do his Kwan interpretative program...)