The Galaxy Saga Episode 6 - Permanent Blade Mounting

[SkatingOnClouds]

Well, it has taken weeks, but I am finally satisfied with the position of my old Phantom blades on my new Graf Galaxy boots. The boots fit comfortably enough now, though still some wearing in to do. I got the blade position right in the last 5 minutes of the final session before the rink closed for their Christmas holiday, talk about last minute!

I have drilled the holes for the permanent blade mounting, and now would appreciate advice about water-proofing and what, if anything to squirt in the screw holes.

I bought Sno-seal, and put that on the soles (before any holes were drilled) while they were warm from heat molding, but it didn't seem to absorb in at all. I will try it again and use the hairdryer to melt it more. Any tips about waterproofing? Would I be better off using a polyurethane varnish?

I have read different advice about putting stuff into the screw holes to waterproof or improve the grip of the screws.

The John Wilson blades site says to squirt epoxy glue into the holes, which is a bit frighteningly permanent sounding. Somewhere else I read that you should put Sno-seal in - but wouldn't the wax make the screws more likely to slip? Another tip was silicon sealant, to provide waterproofing and a touch of grip.

I have to wait one more weekend after the coming one before the rink re-opens after their summer closure. I cannot wait to get out there with my boots finally ready for "real" skating.

Karen

[TaBalie]

All the Grafs my skate shop gets (including the pair I got) come super-waterproofed. Even though the shop told me the boots wouldn't absorb anymore Sno-Seal, I tried anyway -- and they were right, the boots couldn't absorb anymore. :oops:

[Casey]

My Grafs seemed to absorb Sno-Seal quite readily, both when brand new and a while down the road. In fact I skated on them for about a week and a before the final mounting and initial sno-seal application, and there were water stains from even that short of an exposure, so I'd deem it necessary.

The trick to Sno-Seal is getting the sole leather hot enough to absorb the sno-seal. The sno-seal should melt and look like water or liquid wax. A hair dryer usually won't cut it, you need a heat gun from the hardware store if you intend to do it yourself.

Graf does an unusual bit with their heels - though the outside makes them appear to be layered leather like other brands, inside is a plastic block (at least on the Edmonton Specials, according to my fitter). One of the implications of this is that they hold the screws pretty well, and you don't have to worry as much about the inside of the screwhole rotting. That being said, I've managed to work the heel screws lose a few times and broke the head off of one somehow, and that with all the screws in even. Never have had any issue with the toe plate screws.

You can use a clear silicon sealant between the blade and sole - my skates have that, though it didn't really stick well and bits of it come off from time to time.

[Skate@Delaware]

I have good success when I use my clothes dryer to heat up my boots-put them on the rack that came with my dryer; put it on medium heat and let it go for aobut 10 minutes. When I pull them out, the outsides are very warm and really suck up the sno-seal, while the insides aren't hot enough to have the heat-molding undone.

I sno-seal one boot with one coat, while leaving the other one in the dryer, then pull that one out to do. I alternate between them and by the time they have cooled down, they are ready for a nice buffing! I do the uppers also. It soaks in nicely and I've never had them feeling too "sticky"

Don't forget though, you have to use a dryer rack if you put them in your dryer!!!!!

[SkatingOnClouds]

Hmm, I suspect my Grafs were already waterproofed. Today I actually melted the Sno-seal til it was liquid, then brushed it on with a paintbrush. It did not show any sign of absorbing whatsoever, it just set on the outside.

Now I'm going for the final screw down of the blades.

Karen

[Casey]

Hmm, I suspect my Grafs were already waterproofed. Today I actually melted the Sno-seal til it was liquid, then brushed it on with a paintbrush. It did not show any sign of absorbing whatsoever, it just set on the outside.
You don't preheat the sno-seal, the leather of the soles needs to be hot enough to become porous and absorb it! Here's a quote I found elsewhere:

"Can use a hairdryer but careful use of a heat gun is much better. Want to melt the wax by heating both outer surface of leather and the wax itself. Just heating the wax but applying onto room temp leather will only work wax into outer thin layer of leather. By melting it into the leather using a heat gun on leather, you can get the sealant deep into leather."

[SkatingOnClouds]

Okay, thanks Casey. I've tried it both ways now, and it hasn't absorbed at all.

The saga continues. I went for the final screw down. My husband said to drill pilot holes for the screws as we couldn't screw them in otherwise. I didn't drill all the way down on the heel screws so he could use his superior strength to drive them the final few millimetres for better grip. But he couldn't, so he decided to drill them further. He broke the drill bit in the hole. Went to the hardware store for a new drill bit, swore it was exactly the same size. So I drilled - only to find that now the screws went straight into the holes without any help - the drill bit was now much too big(methinks he needs glasses). Back to the hardware store for wider screws.

They're screwed down now, goodness knows whether they'll stay down after all the drilling and screwing and messing around. AAARRRGGGHHH !!!!

This really has become a saga. So, to put glue in the screw holes now, or not, that is the question ??

First the getting the boots to fit the bunions, then the blade positioning, now the screw debacle. It might have ended up being cheaper and quicker my flying somewhere where all this could have been done in one hit.

Ah, the pleasures of living in a small, remote place where most people aren't aware there is even an ice rink. Actually, another rink has opened up in the north of our state now. I hear it may be the same size or smaller than the one here. And I counted - from a standing start, it takes 6 strokes before I'm into crossovers for the corner.

LOL, my husband was carrying a boot & blade in the hardware store, an ex-pat Englishman showed interest in the blade, his comment was "first thing we used to do was file those off", pointing at the toe-picks.

Karen

[russiet]

I didn't drill all the way down on the heel screws so he could use his superior strength to drive them the final few millimetres for better grip.

Pilot holes should always be drilled as deep as the screw will penetrate. Otherwise you run the risk of either stripping the sole material or snapping off the screw head when the screw bottoms out in the hole.

But he couldn't, so he decided to drill them further. He broke the drill bit in the hole. Went to the hardware store for a new drill bit, swore it was exactly the same size. So I drilled - only to find that now the screws went straight into the holes without any help - the drill bit was now much too big(methinks he needs glasses). Back to the hardware store for wider screws.

They're screwed down now, goodness knows whether they'll stay down after all the drilling and screwing and messing around. AAARRRGGGHHH !!!!

This really has become a saga. So, to put glue in the screw holes now, or not, that is the question ??

In the heel I would fill the holes & redrill. You probably only have 4 holes there. I do & I am using three of those holes (two slotted with pan head screws, one countersunk with a flat head screw).

Up front there should be a lot of screw hole choices. If the slotted holes are oversized up front, I think you should fill them. You can use alternates for the countersunk holes up front.

I haven't tried filling in sole holes before, but as a woodworker & engineer I feel qualified to make a suggestion. I'm sure many techniques may be used, but I would try to create a plug from high quality heel leather, probably available from a local shoe repair for little or nothing. The shoot some waterproof glue (epoxy would be good) in the hole & push the plug in. Try to fill the hole mostly with the plug and minimize the amount of epoxy. After the adhessive has hardened, trim the plug (a sharp chisel would work) flush with the rest of the sole & redrill with the correct size bit.

The epoxy will make the material harder and now more difficult for the screw threads to form into. Don't make the hole bigger! Make a thread-forming screw instead. Take a very small file (triangular in cross section) and make a small groove toward the tip of one of the screws running counter to the threads. Use a vise to hold the screw or you will go mad.

Here is a link to three pictures of a home-made thread forming screw. http://www.sendpix.com/albums/05123106/qtnow8okj9/

This becomes your "tap". Use that screw to form the threads in the hole. Run it in until it gets hard to turn, then back it out and remove the debris it has shaved out of the thread area. Keep working it in and out until it has gone in all the way. Use this same screw to form the threads at all hole locations.

Most times you won't need to resort to this technique. Leather is compressable and usually threads mold into it quite nicely. Only when you add some epoxy might the material become too inflexable.

Variations of this technique can be used to tighten-up marginally too large sole holes. Here's another one:

Fill the hole completely with epoxy. Take the correct size screw and coat the threads liberally with vaseline (oil, grease.....whatever). Now screw it into the hole and wipe away the extra epoxy that oozes out. Once the epoxy has solidified, back the screw out. The Vaseline will act as a release agent so the screw won't stick. Now you will have perfectly formed threads in the hole.

I could go on, but I'm sure I'll get banned from this site for being way too anal retentive.

Jon