Instructional Video Ideas... Help Please ;-)

[CharlieB]

Dear Skating Forum Members,

I would be grateful to anyone who could suggest useful ideas for more instructional videos. After reading a few of your posts, it seems that this forum is filled with educated skaters. One of you has already approached me with a good idea…

Here’s what I do:
My partners and I started a company --- Ultimate Skate LLC --- that is endorsed by the PSA and has up to this point produced 4 videos also licensed by the USOC due to the high quality of production and instruction. We have spent more dollars and research than any other entity in the world on our Figure Skating Instructional Videos --- over $250,000 producing these 4 videos so far and are looking to continue producing more. You may have seen our ad in the back of the Dec ‘05 Skating Magazine.

The first 4 videos work mostly on skating technique. Our videos help skaters with the grade of execution mark for the new judging system. They also help to improve skater’s overall quality on the ice. I am interested producing “freestyle only” videos and hiring coaches like Frank Carroll, Kerry Leitch, etc… Also, I’ve thrown around ideas for making a fun instructional video for Ice Dance where we go through all the hard maneuvers and discuss how to best control/execute them.

I am looking to YOU for new ideas and a critique of what you may have already seen in my videos so far. Any feedback, both good and bad is appreciated! I care to make my future videos even better than the present.

Thank you for your time!

Happy New Year~ :)

Charles Butler
www.UltimateSkate.com

[CharlieB]

I forgot to mention that if I DO use one of your creative ideas, I will not only include you in the credits, but also pay you. And perhaps, if our schedules match up, fly you out to see the production and be a part of it.

Thank You!

Charles Butler
www.UltimateSkate.com

[mdvask8r]

Hi Charles,
How about some ice dance videos showing the various test standards -- standard, adult, masters, solo. And I second the suggestion for instructional videos of the lower & mid-level dances -- especially partnering tips.

I have your first video -- it's great. My butt is soaked, but I'm determined to master that hydroblade!! Planning to add the other videos to my library soon.

[renatele]

It's been talked about on many forums many times, but I have to agree that videos showing the ice dances would be something I'd very likely buy!

(and I do have your first instructional video, found it to be very helpful).

[daisies]

Hi Charles,
How about some ice dance videos showing the various test standards -- standard, adult, masters, solo. And I second the suggestion for instructional videos of the lower & mid-level dances -- especially partnering tips.
This would be awesome. I have the video in which Usova & Zhulin do the Silver-and-up dances, but I don't have anything for the lower levels. Plus, it's really hard to relate to Usova & Zhulin because no way can I skate like that! It would be cool to have "regular skaters" perform the dances as they should be skated for standard, adult, masters and solo -- especially solo, since that's half of the standard dance test anyway for Silver and up.

[jp1andOnly]

do not include Kerry Leitch in any video. He doesn't deserve to be coaching with all the crap he's done in the past.

Free skating videos would be wonderful. My coach is always asking me to watch certain skaters because they have good technique, etc.

[doubletoe]

I think it would be very timely for someone to produce some videos that demonstrate Level 1, Level 2, Level 3 and Level 4 spins, spiral sequences and footwork sequences, showing examples of what will and won't bring the element up to the next level. I think it is hard for skaters to know for sure what will be counted as a higher level, even if they think they understand what the descriptions in the ISU documents mean. They just aren't quite specific enough.

[Mrs Redboots]

It occurs to me that a video showing the non-ISU dances that each country (well, UK, Canada, USA as a minimum) includes in its test/competition structures (i.e. the low-level dances) would be incredibly helpful, especially as we all seem to use different tempi for these dances, which is madly confusing at international competition. Not only helpful to skaters, but also to judges - at the moment, they haven't the systems in place to include these dances in the NJS, which is totally infuriating.

And I personally would love a video of the NISA dance moves being done properly, but I dare say that's a minority interest!

Edited to add: You wouldn't believe how many skaters on another forum say they learnt twizzles from your first Physics on Ice video (the only one, alas, that I have) - I did, too. How do you not go up on your toe-rake, though, which is still my problem?

[Joan]

I agree with the many others here who request ice dance videos. There is currently nothing available that shows the compulsory dances, the test standards, different ways of expressing the dance, or tips on partnering. Such a video would be invaluable!

[Cactus Bill]

Charlie,

I too would like to echo the request for Ice Dancing videos (and you would be an excellent choice for this, knowing your background!). And the idea for a video showing the proper techniques for each testing (both MIF and FS) level would be a Godsend. Possibly a video showing what the judges are looking for at each level would be fantastic...I've heard horror stories of how skaters go to a test and don't pass because they don't understand what's required.

[jenlyon60]

Definitely the dances... both showing "good" execution/partnering and sub-par execution/partnering.

It occurs to me that a good explanation of tracking would be invaluable... with both demonstrations and white-board drawing of the difference in lobes for good/bad/indifferent tracking of partner. Not just tracking in waltz hold while skaters are doing chasses and/or swing rolls, but tracking into/out of 3-turns (thinking the lady's RFO3 in the Willow Waltz as well as the end pattern of European Waltz).

Tracking in other holds than waltz hold would be useful as well. For example there can be some subtle tracking required in Killian/Reverse Killian hold (thinking the difference between being the "inside" partner vs being the "outside" partner [which is how I think about it]).

Also in partnering, different ways to minorly adjust the holds to make the hold work better (e.g. tall guy/short lady).

And... how to effectively USE the partner to make the dance easier (thinking of the Blues choctaw here, or the ladies RBO coming out of the RFI3 in the Tango).

Oh yeah... since my sig sort of gives away my nemesis... Various ways to set up and track into the ladies' intro 3-turn to make it smooth and not whipped. (I've run across a lot of adult ladies who have intro-3 dread like me...)

[CharlieB]

Thank you for all the comments so far... I hope you will keep the ideas flowing ;-) It makes me smile to know that some of you have learned from my first video. I am not sure if I'll ever make much money off this venture, but at least I can feel glad to know it is a helpful tool.

Seems like a lot of you want to see a video/videos for Ice Dancing. What do you think about the ISU video on Ice Dancing? For myself, I found it to be useful only for learning the steps, but not for executing or controlling them. Do you think there is a large enough market that would care to see Dance Videos to make it worth say investing $80,000 or so into the production? Or would I just have to charge a lot of money per video like $100/video... To be honest I would love to produce this, and I am glad to hear you guys asking for it. Just have to go over the economics.

Another choice is to just go through the "hard" parts of every dance, and discuss the essential things of each dance. Instead of going through every step of every dance. This would cut production time drastically, and save a lot of costs. Then I could sell it for about $50 or so. Would you guys buy a Dance Video for $50???

Also, I thought I would comment on the dreaded intro "adult 3-turn" having worked with my fair share of adult skaters :) (One of the reasons I love Adult Skaters is because they appreciate knowledge~ unlike the young ones who often could care less so long as they rotate their jumps) Just for the adult audience: I have included Michelle Harvath, an Adult Skater, in my 3 new videos. She demonstrates representing adults. I plan to continue to use adult skaters in my future videos.

3-turn: A few things to watch for when approaching the intro 3-turn with speed: I find it helps if you make the Entrance and Exit Edge shallow. Since it is an intro 3, who cares how deep the thing is. Also, feel your body roll gently from the 'middle-heel' of the blade to the 'ball' of your foot during the rotation. <You should be on the middle-heel of your blade entering, and ball exiting> If you hit the toe-pick it could be one of 2 things, #1: You are leaning too far forward, or #2 you are leaning too far backward and your legs are acting on auto-pilot to dig the toe in to save your body from falling backwards. #1 is obvious, #2 sometimes people miss... Checking both the free-hip and shoulders (torso) is necessary. Sometimes, I see people trying to check 3-turns just with their shoulders... It's not gonna work. How much you rise in your knee is crucial. Never rise up all the way when checking a 3, just go up say 90% of the way up in your knees. Make sure while rotating that the front of the rib-cage is in front of your hip bones, this will ensure that when finished rotating you are properly on the ball of your foot. If you arch your back ever so slighly, while placing your ribs in front of your hips, you have just done an "isolation" which is an advanced manuver to displace your weight. (This is discussed and demonstrated in my new volumes.) It gives you the ability to displace weight without true or false lean.

Also, try this experiment. Skating Backward, sink in your knees then shoot up really fast. You will see you want to rock forward on your blade, possibly even so far as to hit your toe-pick! you must be gentle when you rise in order to not rock too far forward. Same thing with 3-turns. If you shoot up like a rocket, you will most likely rock too far forward and scratch the turn. If you try this experiment gliding forward, and you shoot up in your knees you will find yourself falling back on your heel. Thus proving that during your turn not only should you rise gently, but you must peak your rise right after the top of the rotation in order to properly place your weight on the ball of the foot. There are a gazillion more applications where these two experiments mean something... but not enough time or space to go over all of them ;)

Anyhow, after reading the above, you can probably understand why I do instructional videos rather than books, hahahahaha!!! :lol:

Thanks for all the input!

Charlie

[jenlyon60]

I would divide it into several levels of dance videos, perhaps a series.

Prelim-Bronze
Pre-Silver-Pre-Gold
Gold
Internationals

As you know, expectations are different at each level/grouping, and while a back progressive is a back progressive is a back progressive, the expectations of execution/power generation at the Pre-Bronze/Bronze level is totally different than at the Pre-Gold/Gold level.

Focusing on problem areas of the dances would be great, while still recognizing that sometimes an issue with a step in a dance will actually start 1 or 2 steps earlier. (As a coach and former competitior you're probably very aware of which steps are "problem" steps... but it might be useful for your target audience to also address the steps identified in judges' training materials/PSA Dance documentation [the spiral book that many coaches and judges use as reference]) as "watch for" steps/technique.

And... with the right marketing, I think the audience is there, especially if you had a table at some of the popular dance weekends, or a couple of the larger ice dance-specific competitions like Washington FSC's annual Pro-Am Dance Classic.

What would be very useful also is to use a mix of abilities in the lower level dance videos, also. Seeing a lower level skater skate the lower dances, illustrating correct step execution would be as useful for lower level dancers as seeing a high level skater/dancer executing steps that are "easy-peasy" for them.

[phoenix]

Focusing on problem areas is definitely the main thing, but I really feel the entire dance should be shown in its entirety as well--at least 2 patterns (with camera work showing the dancers' entire bodies please!!). And maybe a few closeups of their feet in tricky areas. Maybe you could even show that with a minimum of commentary-- Especially at the higher levels, we can learn things just by watching & can figure out things for ourselves......after I'd been studying CDs I'd downloaded from Rinkside for about a month, my coach made a comment on how my posture/extension/toe point/carriage had improved & asked "where'd that come from?" I told him I was channeling Angelika Krylova! It's one thing to see all the pieces, it's quite another to see it done with expression, confidence, all the nuances that we're striving for. Where I skate I don't get to see high level dancers a whole lot, & I greatly miss having examples to try to emulate.

ETA: if you do a coaches seminar in conjunction w/ the production as I mentioned, it could help defray the costs somewhat......just a thought.

[skateflo]

Whatever you decide to do, please include for some parts at least an example of the most common mistakes seen and THEN show how to correct it and what the finished product should look like.

Even in some basics, I still look at Oglivie's book as he lists (and shows in photographs) the most common mistakes (posture, leg position, etc.), why it happens and how to correct it.

As you search for what market you are most interested in, remember the lower ranks have the most people and are so thirsty for information, especially adults, and they have buying power.

[doubletoe]

Charlie - Good pointers on the 3-turns. As I always say, "Don't ever try to surprise a 3-turn. 3-turns have been known to bite when surprised."

[Mrs Redboots]

Charlie - thanks for the tips on the 3-turns; I was trying to work on what you'd said today, and it was really helpful! I could see exactly what you meant - although for me, the intro-3 is a lot less of a problem (as long as I'm not soloing) than turns in ordinary skating, as I have someone there to orient myself against and to catch me!

[CharlieB]

Redboots, you are welcome :) Glad I could help.

I must say that one of you guys PMed me with an incredible idea! Amazing what you can come up with when a few people put their heads together. Wow.

Thanks for all the posted thoughts. I do appreciate your time in helping me with ideas.. When I get some time, I would enjoy checking out the rest of this forum and seeing what is up.

Wishing you all a Happy New Year!

Charlie

www.UltimateSkate.com

[Skate@Delaware]

I had thought about ordering the physics on ice video beforehand, but wasn't sure. Based on the comments posted here, I went ahead and ordered it. I figured it couldn't hurt (my husband, daughter, and I could all use it, I'm sure)!


Anxiously waiting for it now.....

[sk8er1964]

I had thought about ordering the physics on ice video beforehand, but wasn't sure. Based on the comments posted here, I went ahead and ordered it. I figured it couldn't hurt (my husband, daughter, and I could all use it, I'm sure)!


Anxiously waiting for it now.....

It's a good one. However, somehow I just can't get my hydroblades to look like Charlie's! :lol: ;)

[Mrs Redboots]

It's a good one. However, somehow I just can't get my hydroblades to look like Charlie's! :lol: ;)No, nor can I, and nor can't my husband, even though his are better than mine!

At least, I probably _could_, but I couldn't get up again afterwards....

I must say, I do rather long for the DVD with Michelle in it - she is such a lovely dancer.

[Skate@Delaware]

I may find myself getting the other videos eventually. As far as hydroblading-it's something my brat daughter has been working on and is able to do (mostly). I haven't tried (chicken). My husband just thinks it's cool but won't be trying any time soon.

I just found out my rink might be adding an adult-only ice dance class! Hubby is interested also. Yay! I really think he will like it.

[sk8er1964]

I may find myself getting the other videos eventually. As far as hydroblading-it's something my brat daughter has been working on and is able to do (mostly). I haven't tried (chicken). My husband just thinks it's cool but won't be trying any time soon.

I just found out my rink might be adding an adult-only ice dance class! Hubby is interested also. Yay! I really think he will like it.

Go ahead and try them! You're pretty close to the ice when you fall, and the fall's easy -- plus the slide across the ice is rather fun. Now, as to how they look -- if they're anything like mine.... :twisted: ;)

[jenlyon60]

3-turn: A few things to watch for when approaching the intro 3-turn with speed: I find it helps if you make the Entrance and Exit Edge shallow. Since it is an intro 3, who cares how deep the thing is. Also, feel your body roll gently from the 'middle-heel' of the blade to the 'ball' of your foot during the rotation. <You should be on the middle-heel of your blade entering, and ball exiting> If you hit the toe-pick it could be one of 2 things, #1: You are leaning too far forward, or #2 you are leaning too far backward and your legs are acting on auto-pilot to dig the toe in to save your body from falling backwards. #1 is obvious, #2 sometimes people miss... Checking both the free-hip and shoulders (torso) is necessary. Sometimes, I see people trying to check 3-turns just with their shoulders... It's not gonna work. How much you rise in your knee is crucial. Never rise up all the way when checking a 3, just go up say 90% of the way up in your knees. Make sure while rotating that the front of the rib-cage is in front of your hip bones, this will ensure that when finished rotating you are properly on the ball of your foot. If you arch your back ever so slighly, while placing your ribs in front of your hips, you have just done an "isolation" which is an advanced manuver to displace your weight. (This is discussed and demonstrated in my new volumes.) It gives you the ability to displace weight without true or false lean.


My problem is that my body knows what to do, and my brain knows what to do, and 90% of the time, if we're doing a rolling start w/o the music, the turn is perfect. But when I'm standing in the "starting spot" with left hand holding onto coach, and the music starts, something short-circuits in my brain and I sabotage myself (usually by not cleanly transferring all my weight over my left side on the stroke to set up for the LFO3)... even when we adjust the amount of power.

It's definitely a Mental thing... and it comes and goes. From February 2005 through July (when I got new boots) things were "on." Then after I broke in my new boots, things disappeared most of the time (boots are comfortable, so I can't blame the boots NOW).